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On May 18 2011 09:52 Scamp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:42 Incognito wrote:On May 18 2011 09:36 Scamp wrote:
Well, if Incognito is town he sure knows how to save his ass with long posts and fresh plans. I don't like how his plan revolves around roles being selected that we don't know are actually in the game (both vote rigger and list-checking DTs/inventors) and his plan is basically dividing up the town in a way that no one is expecting to work. But if we do go along with it he did narrow the suspects down to four.
Kind of curious how I made the short list over Chaoser, though.. If you survive the lynch, will you promise me to give me the vote list check kit if you are the inventor? I won't tell anyone that you are truly the inventor. Promise. If you want my cooperation in any way it's probably best if you A: don't target me as a lynch target and B: answer my questions (or statements that are question-like). Odd, though. I don't really feel like this threat of being lynched is serious.
Its not, I don't expect you to be lynched. I expect Kavdragon to be lynched. You are just for list check purposes.
On May 18 2011 09:54 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 09:37 Incognito wrote:On May 18 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:This comes early Day 1. Notice how bold and confident it is. Was he wrong? Yes. Honestly, his case is made off of very little information and many assumptions. But that didn't stop him. After his first accusation post he keeps pushing. Even after this, he keeps mentioning his thoughts. All throughout the day he points out scum. Not "gathering information", but real accusations. He accuses at least 5 people throughout day 1. Even when DH says he will consider lynching him, Kav remains aggressive, maintains his focus on DH, and dares DH to lynch him. That is aggressive, risky play. Now look at this game. Kavdragon suddenly retracts into his hole, is "afraid" of good players, and needs to poke for information. He doesn't follow a coherent train of thought, and his defense isn't anywhere near convincing either. He doesn't strongly accuse anyone of anything, and his defense shows that he cares a lot. Overall, strong case for red.
I disagree with the Kavdragon lynch. I'll admit that I've been skim reading some of his later posts, but after a quick look through, I still don't get the scum vibe. I agree with some of your points Incog, but on the whole disagree with the conclusion. Mind you, I haven't read through his other games, so your opinion is a bit more learned than mine. Anyways, Kav has had some bold, unafraid posts in this game. He has been disagreeing with people with reckless abandon, and for at least the first half of the game, seemed very confident. Again, can't compare with his other games, but i'm really picking up the opposite vibe. Another possible reason to vote Barundar over Kavdragon, is that if he's mafia Barundar very likely took CPR Doc. He was 'assigned' this role, so would not look suspicious if he took it, and it's very difficult to discover if he uses it or not. Please point out some of these "bold, unafraid posts". Disagreeing with people is normal, especially in a game such as this one where the lynch is fragmented. It also depends on what he is disagreeing on. I'm not sure I see these posts you are referring to though. Before you make a final call, I suggest you look back at some of his previous games, namely XXXVIII and XXXIV. They're totally different styles and it shows. And the point about Barundar likely being CPR doc is moot. There are plenty of good mafia roles. If we lynch one, we're likely to knock out something good. Funny enough I had some posts(the node fos and another one) that I was going to use as examples at the end of my post. Upon rereading I decided not to include them, as I felt they didn't really quite satisfy the requirement. Perhaps this is a sign you're right. Anyways, my hesitancy to lynch Kavdragon stems from 2 places: 1) In any other game I've played in, players who have posted like Kavdragon this game always flip Town. Nothing I've seen this game from Kav has triggered alarm bells for me, and to tell the truth has actually done the opposite(it doesn't feel like he's trying to be town). I realize you're basing your lynch push not necessarily off posts this game, but rather comparisons to other games. In this I'll have to trust you. If Kav lives another day, I promise I'll look through those games, but I don't have the pizazz to do it right now(i'm tired and ready for bed). 2) I can't shake the feeling that you are redirecting people away from my Barundar vote. I've been fooled by you before, and as such you have only yourself to blame. With that in mind, I feel it's best to go with my strong suspicion of Barundar(a suspicion you share). Are you willing to leave off on Kavdragon for Day 1(let ace shoot him if you want  ) to lend me a vote on Barundar? After all, it's what you're asking of me. The aforementioned quotes: + Show Spoiler +On May 14 2011 13:28 Kavdragon wrote:I picked [1.5][0.5]. Am i doing it right? ...or we can get down to business: Node. Cool story. What role did you get? Show nested quote +On May 14 2011 10:19 Node wrote:On May 14 2011 09:58 GMarshal wrote:Alright, discussion time it is, before we start I want to preface this with something I picked up in PYP3 On December 30 2010 16:32 Qatol wrote:
The town wants overlaps so the mafia are either forced into early positions/ roles they cannot use effectively without becoming suspicious or positions later in the draft where the mafia cannot be sure their desired roles will be available.
so, whatever you do, don't claim your numbers, we want to throw the mafia off, the last thing we want them is to be able to take two kp roles or something like that. Onto GM's Mafia Power denial plan. In this game there are several powers that are really, really anti town, and rather powerful, the GF's, the PoD and such. The easiest way to counter these powers is to know who has them, that way we avoid their usage by having someone responsible for them. For this reason I have created a draft of the most "anti-town" roles in the game and assigned numbers to pick them. If your number in the draft order coincides with this power then you *must* pick it, so we can control what roles the mafia has. 1-5- KP roles, America/CPR doc/inventor or roles you know you can use effectively (pupeteer, etc) I also advise that the MethMan be picked up there to encourage the mafia to not shoot into those roles. Position 6- Theif. We dont want the mafia to have this, since its even more anti-town than copycat in mafia hands, as it allows them to deny us a role and gain a powerful role. 7- Caller Godfather- since its extremely anti town and essentially adds a traitor to our ranks, its not something I want to worry about 8- PoD- again extremely anti town, lets deny its usage shall we? 9- vote rigger, like a pardoner on steroids, if a pardoner pardons we just lynch him, we have no way of catching the rigger, this way we know who he is from here on down people should choose what they feel they can use effectively and to the benefit of the town. By following this plan we eliminate the threat of 4 worrisome roles that can really hurt the town. This needs some refinement naturally, but it seems to me like a decent start. Also if any of these roles have been taken we know that the mafia is somewhere in the top five and *really* wants whatever role it is they took, thus we can focus our search on those Pardoner dosn't worry me as he must out himself to use his power and is then guaranteed to be made a pincushion by our vigis and other killing roles, and the threat of the copycat is nullified as long as we lynch someone low on the list. Just my initial thoughts, comments? I question whether it's a good idea to specifically deny the mafia powerful roles. There are certainly a few roles that would be extraordinarily powerful in the hands of the mafia, but there are enough good-to-very strong roles that if they didn't feel comfortable picking top-tier they could just go elsewhere. In addition, there's the more "quirky" roles where a well-executed tactic could be disastrous (for instance, check out the synergy between the mason and the agent of chaos) but difficult to predict and deny. I'd rather see the town prioritize the roles that would be really powerful in the hands of the town. For instance, the Assassin could basically be used as an alignment-checking DT that kills mafia when they find them. There's very little risk in having the role going to a townie. Other potentially good town roles include Cupid, Priest, and Jailkeeper. I haven't extensively gone into any other possibilities, but there's definitely good stuff out there. Node's ideas are wrong, and wrong in a way that benefits mafia. Mafia wants to get the powerful roles, and the will try to get them. Anything beyond this is WIFOM. We can build a list of roles that the mafia will likely try to obtain, and have town go after those roles. If a townie and a mafia try to get the same role, town wins: The ratio of mafia to townies is 1/4, so if we send one townie to block a role that the mafia want, we only allocate 1/4 of the manpower that the mafia has to in order to try for the role, and they have no better chance of getting that power than the townie does. This is very similar to the reason that 1-1 trades work well. I'm not saying that we should not go for pro-town roles, but that we need to also go for anti town roles. We have a manpower advantage over the mafia, and we should utilize it. Compound this with the fact that node states his opinions very tentatively, and you've got yourself an FOS: node. On May 16 2011 08:25 Kavdragon wrote:
So... I meant to post this a while ago, but ended up without a internet connection till now.
As I see it there are two general ways that each side can go: You can deny the other team's power roles, or you can gain your team's power roles. Statistically it's a horrible idea for the mafia to try to deny us, rather than gain power roles. (Because of the limited number of players on their team)
Even though the mafia has the advantage of being able to communicate and organize, I think that the town still has a huge advantage at this stage because of sheer manpower. We have three times the number of players, and I think that using that advantage is going to be key in getting the upper hand in this drafting phase.
What I mean is this: We have enough players to both block the mafia from getting their most powerful roles, AND still pick up our most powerful roles. The only thing that we need to figure out is what order we need to take those roles.
As mentioned earlier, the mafia can't afford to get any roles that are powerful for the town, unless they are also powerful for the mafia. Because of this, I think that any powers that are weak for the mafia should NOT be chosen early even if they are very powerful for the town. The top picks should be roles that are powerful for both sides, followed by roles that are very powerful in mafia hands (but not so much in town hands), followed by roles that are powerful for town (but not so much for mafia).
People have said that we should just not pick mafia roles, and lynch anyone found with them. I disagree strongly, as it is that sort of passive play that will allow the mafia to get exactly what they need, and rofl stomp us. Those role will very likely be taken regardless, so I'd rather do something like Radfield is suggesting, and assign them to people, so that we know where those roles are.
Sorry if it covers some things that have already been talked about. Radfield: Even if Flamewheel isn't willing to take thief, it would still work if we just shifted everything down a position, right?
You must tell the difference between "people who post like Kavdragon in other games" and "Kavdragon's posting in other games". The differences in aggression/focus are very telling in both games.
How have I fooled you before? And the reason why I'm trying to lynch Kavdragon over Barundar is that Kavdragon is more suspicious. Barundar was risky enough to attack Caller for spreading out the votes, which from a mafia point of view isn't the best thing to do. I'm ok with investigative roles checking Barundar though.
Don't be fooled by the Node accusation post. Here is a post from Kavdragon when he's mafia. The key difference here is not that Kavdragon makes a bold accusation, its that he makes a bold accusation but doesn't follow through with this in subsequent posts.
The second post is just a terrible suggestion. He suggests that people prioritize roles that benefit the mafia over roles that benefit the town. I don't see how this makes him town at all.
On May 18 2011 10:18 Ace wrote:
Also these "likely town" lists are also hilarious. Fake effort all around. Managing "vote lists" by Incognito's whim. Scamp and chaoser accused of lurking, when there are blatant fishy posts in front of our eyes.
Incognito, Radfield. Flip a coin.
I never accused Scamp/chaoser of lurking. If you look back at my list they're both under the "List of suspicious people", so we both agree there.
Chezinu - This list will consist of suspicious people
Node
Scamp
GMarshal
chaoser
Barundar
Kavdragon
We seem to be in agreement on a lot of things (except for the "lynch finger pointers" thing). So please stop opposing me and maybe we can not rip each other to shreds for a change?
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On May 18 2011 11:00 kitaman27 wrote:
Sigh this is a mess how spread out the votes are. If nobody wants to lynch deconduo today, I hope someone shoots or checks him tonight. Switching to Barundar.
Why are you voting Barundar?
On May 18 2011 11:12 GMarshal wrote:
I laugh at how I'm "obviously mafia", tunneling much incog? Please point out my scum motivated posts and then maybe I'll take you somewhat seriously. Although its not likely. Is anyone else getting bad vibes from this lynch? I feel like neither Barundar nor Kav are scum, as Barundar called a lot of attention himself with the whole "focus your vote" thing, which was something that needed to be said, I don't understand the wagon on him at all. Kav has been trying so hard its not even funny, and I just don't see the reasoning behind lynching him as solid, as a matter of fact they seem to me to be a bunch of meta considerations that are best ignored, while meta is fine for solidifying a case, its a terrible thing to base lynches on, every game is different, and peoples play styles change.
I'm still not sure of who to vote for, I don't like any of the current lynch candidates, theres still some time before the deadline, so I'll think on it.
So what you're trying to say is: you're ignoring my analysis because you don't like the way I'm playing. Oh wait a second, thats what you did last game! And you turned out to be mafia. Please don't disappoint me. I've posted analyses on Kavdragon here and here.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Weren't Kavdragon and chaoser having an argument about 24 hours ago? I seem to remember the two of them taking up ~3 pages of posts.
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On May 18 2011 11:40 Kavdragon wrote:@incog + Show Spoiler +On May 18 2011 08:32 Incognito wrote:
Also Kavdragon, who has this strange fixation to defending himself without saying anything about me or pushing an alternative. Um, firstly, I HAVE talked about you. I've been defending my style of play, something very similar to yours early on. I've mentioned you in many of the examples I pointed out to ace where he was putting down early "bs" pressure. I'm not pushing you as an alternative because, as I have already said several times, I don't like lynching good players day 1. Day 1 reads are hard, and I've never been in favor of risking them on valuable players. You are a valuable player AND I supported what you were doing, so why would I suggest you as an alternative? On May 18 2011 08:59 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 06:28 Kavdragon wrote:
This is how I play town. Go look at XXXVIII. Look at XXXVI.
Incorrect. Here's a post from XXXVIII. Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:43 Kavdragon wrote:Screw it. I'm still 10 pages behind cause i had a sound gig I was running this morning, but this needs to get out there asap. (Sorry if it ignores stuff that has happened since page 31) Protactinium is Red.
Dr.H is Red.First and foremost, don't let anyone fool you into thinking that the mayor is a unimportant role. It's EXTREMELY powerful, and VERY helpful to the town. This is a problem for the scum team, so they need a plan to bring it down quickly. So what do you do? First, you try to get a member into the office. It doesn't matter WHICH spot because they are both told the names of the bodyguards, and it doesn't matter HOW it's done, because the person put into that seat will be a sacrifice. Letting one of 8 members die is an excellent trade if you knock out the mayor, and secure the pardoner's role for it. As a bonus you can knock out most, if not all meaningful discussion the first day. Now how can this be done? Have one member claim assassin, have another intimidating member bully and be extremely negative of everyone else running for mayor. My case for Protactinium v1.0 Protactinium has done only one thing so far, and that is announce and defend his Assassin claim Gambit. An interesting, and somewhat appealing plan at first glance, but upon deeper inspection doesn't make sense. I know that Protact is a VERY skilled scum player. He's a good player all around. This gambit of his is a huge risk, because he doesn't know if town will let him in. If he played it quietly, he'd have a better chance than most. He says he came up with a new way to try to survive: become pardoner. It makes sense for a little bit, because that spot is protected. But there's a problem: As he has said multiple times, he wants to use this to get into the endgame, where he can throw his last hammer and then be done. It would work if the mayor lived that long, but to quote foolishness, "Mayors have a pretty high mortality rate". He wants to hid behind bodyguards, but look how fast they fell in insane! Over all, there is SOME validity to the strategy, but not NEARLY enough for someone of Protact's skill level to try it. It's not his level of play. It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, what if he's Red? It'll become apparent enough pretty quickly, and he'll die. So that makes no sense, right? WRONG. There are 8 players on the scum team, and the mayor is a very powerful role. You can cause TONS of havoc from this position, and if you play it right, you might even be able to survive for a few days and stop a lynch. It doesn't even matter if the lynch was going to kill a townie or mafia, because when you flip, people will see that mafia stopped a lynch, and that person is sure to be lynched again. This saves them a whole day either way. This is EXACTLY the level of play I would expect out of an excellent scum player. Before you say that Mafia wouldn't sacrifice one of their better players, it's was done before when Protact and BloodyC0bler were playing in XXVIII. Protactinium is SCUMHe is my currently on my "to-be-lynched" list, and even if you don't agree with my conclusion that he is definitely scum, you cannot deny that there is a strong possibility, and because of this, he should not be voted into office. No question.My Case for Dr.Helvetica v1.0 I've only played with Dr.H once before, and that was in Salem. It was my first game, and I was subbed in. he played EXTREMELY differently in that game. He was positive, helpful, and gave good insight and ideas freely. This game he has been extremely negative of almost anything suggested. He has used his considerable prowess at being intimidating to bully players, and stomp on very pro-town ideas. On top of that, he has been posting TONS and been pretty spammy about it too. There's a lot of new players, so what better way to scare them off than to drown them with hundreds of posts? On April 10 2011 04:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
kavdragon is saying a lot of useless bullshit trying to appear protown and basically his posts are this:
words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words
obviously no mafia would say THIS much "pro-town" stuff that everyone already knows amirite ;o????
i'm not buying it. you did this same thing in pokemafia which i hosted Stomping on my attempts to help newer players. On April 10 2011 11:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
so many words gmarshal
so many words Stomping on Gmarshal's attempt at running for mayor. On April 10 2011 13:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 10 2011 13:31 tnkted wrote:
Yeah we better make this clear:
when you vote, vote in both threads. that way we can see who voted for what.
not voting in this thread will be considered a scumtell, so be careful. no its not a scumtell ill vote in the vote thread im not gonna waste my time posting all my votes in here especially since i tend to switch votes a lot this is dumb. there will be a dedicated vote thread. if you want to know who votes for who, you can read that thread. less clutter here = better Stomping on Tnkted's EXTREMELY PRO TOWN IDEA. All of this is EXTREMELY ANTI-TOWN no matter how you look at it. Everything he is doing is clearly designed to snuff out new people so that we have tons of inactive players. Doc H is a good mafia player, and there's no way that this is not being done on purpose. Doc H is mafia, and he's doing a damn good job of both spamming the thread to pieces, shutting down pro-town ideas, and intimidating new players. These are just a few examples of how he is destroying a pro-town environment in the thread. I think that everyone has seen this for themselves though. He has almost 100 posts and it's not even half way through day 1! He has contradicted himself multiple times with his mayoral campaign (I'm not going to run --> Mayor is unimportant, and i wish it weren't here --> I can't trust ya'll, I'm going to run). The reason why he singled me out so early was because I am dedicated to doing exactly the oposite of what he is trying to do. I will not get sucked into an argument with him that will spam the thread. I will not stop posting good advice for newer players. I know it looks scummy. I don't care. It will help newer people, and that's worth it. If I can mobilize the the masses before i die, i die a happy death. I refuse to stand by while he destroies the learning environment I am trying to build up. DoctorHelvetica is SCUM This comes early Day 1. Notice how bold and confident it is. Was he wrong? Yes. Honestly, his case is made off of very little information and many assumptions. But that didn't stop him. After his first accusation post he keeps pushing. Even after this, he keeps mentioning his thoughts. All throughout the day he points out scum. Not "gathering information", but real accusations. He accuses at least 5 people throughout day 1. Even when DH says he will consider lynching him, Kav remains aggressive, maintains his focus on DH, and dares DH to lynch him. That is aggressive, risky play. Now look at this game. Kavdragon suddenly retracts into his hole, is "afraid" of good players, and needs to poke for information. He doesn't follow a coherent train of thought, and his defense isn't anywhere near convincing either. He doesn't strongly accuse anyone of anything, and his defense shows that he cares a lot. Overall, strong case for red. ##Vote Kavdragon The reason why I kept pushing was because the Dr.H thing was NOT a pressure play. I honestly thought that he was mafia, and I was making a serious attempt to lynch him. And regarding Dr.H saying he'll lynch me? How is that any different than Ace saying he'll shoot me? I continued to argue with him long after he threatened that. I've never said I was afraid of good players. If that were that were the case, why would I have picked a fight with Ace, and why would I be responding to you? On May 18 2011 09:29 Incognito wrote:
For the sake of completeness, lets compare Kavdragon's play in XXXVIII and this game to XXXIV (Pokemafia).
In Pokemafia, Kavdragon comes up with a long LSB accusation. Nice and all, except that he doesn't follow up. A few posts later, almost nothing is mentioned about LSB, and he goes off to vote some other random person. Compare to this game, where Kavdragon makes an accusation on Node, and then lets it get buried in the thread.
Now I'm 100% certain Kavdragon will be lynched, so here's my suggestion. Keep the votes close among the 4 candidates, with Kavdragon in the lead. If any "save Kavdragon" agenda appears to be occuring, everyone has my full blessing to ignore the assigned vote lists and ensure that Kavdragon is lynched. You fail to mention that I brought the case against LSB well after day one. I've never been aggressive as scum day one. Are you looking through mafia goggles? Honestly, lynching anyone who is vocal day one is a bad idea. I've said this in previous games, when I was town.
Why all of a sudden then you are so convinced about DH/Protactinium in that game and in this game you are so confused? There are plenty of things to talk about. There is no lack of information in this game. Yet you seem to act like there is.
The way you argued with DH after he said he was going to lynch you is TOTALLY in a different character than the way you are arguing now. In the last game, you laughed it off and dared DH to actually lynch you. You had nothing to lose, and you made a risky play. In this game, you are attempting to defend yourself in a safe way and don't take risks. Thats because in this game, you are actually afraid of dying.
You're afraid of good players. You're afraid that we will actually get you lynched, so you're not taking your chances.
Your statement about LSB is incorrect.. As mafia in Pokemafia you attacked LSB on page 18, when day 1 ended on page 23. So that statement is obviously false.
Also, Ace and I apparently aren't afraid to lynch vocal people day 1. If you're mafia, you go down. Period.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 18 2011 11:43 Incognito wrote:So what you're trying to say is: you're ignoring my analysis because you don't like the way I'm playing. Oh wait a second, thats what you did last game! And you turned out to be mafia. Please don't disappoint me. I've posted analyses on Kavdragon here and here.
I'm ignoring your analysis of Kav, because as I said its all based on meta considerations. While those are nice to supplement already solid analysis they are a bad thing to base your cases exclusively on, as peoples attitude and style can change from game to game. As I read it your analysis boils down to "he played more aggressive last game, he isn't as aggressive this game". The only thing that might sell me on that lynch is the fact that he isn't pressing any of his accusations, he fingerpoints and then doesn't push for that targets lynch, which, *independent* of meta consideration is a trait of mafia who look to be contributing without contributing. Especially considering all the time he had to "gather information", however I don't think that that alone is damning enough to push for his lynch (and before people say that that's what I did with df and killerSOS, I left killer to the vigis, and am not going to push df and thus derail what seems to be a decent selection of lynch targets).
I'm not ignoring your arguments, just saying that in my mind they don't seem to be that solid, come back with posts that show pushing for mafia objectives or a non-town mindset behind them and I'll get behind the kavdragon lynch, but you are going to need something more solid than "he is playing different" to sway me. Ace plays different every game, do we lynch him for that?
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I have to go now, but I will say this: If you look at my previous games my behavior will make sense. Perhaps some people won't see it, but of anyone in this game, Incog and Foolishness should.
If I'm dead when I get back, I still hold that node and wiggles look scummy. Wiggles more so than node. I wish that we could lynch him tonight, but time is probably too short.
Wiggles is doing a good job of looking like he's contributing without actually doing anything substantial.
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You're afraid of good players. You're afraid that we will actually get you lynched, so you're not taking your chances.
That is a great point. Why so timid KD?
I think we have to avoid lynching Barundar right now for sure though. Don't like those votes on him at all.
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On May 18 2011 11:57 GMarshal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 11:43 Incognito wrote:So what you're trying to say is: you're ignoring my analysis because you don't like the way I'm playing. Oh wait a second, thats what you did last game! And you turned out to be mafia. Please don't disappoint me. I've posted analyses on Kavdragon here and here. I'm ignoring your analysis of Kav, because as I said its all based on meta considerations. While those are nice to supplement already solid analysis they are a bad thing to base your cases exclusively on, as peoples attitude and style can change from game to game. As I read it your analysis boils down to "he played more aggressive last game, he isn't as aggressive this game". The only thing that might sell me on that lynch is the fact that he isn't pressing any of his accusations, he fingerpoints and then doesn't push for that targets lynch, which, *independent* of meta consideration is a trait of mafia who look to be contributing without contributing. Especially considering all the time he had to "gather information", however I don't think that that alone is damning enough to push for his lynch (and before people say that that's what I did with df and killerSOS, I left killer to the vigis, and am not going to push df and thus derail what seems to be a decent selection of lynch targets). I'm not ignoring your arguments, just saying that in my mind they don't seem to be that solid, come back with posts that show pushing for mafia objectives or a non-town mindset behind them and I'll get behind the kavdragon lynch, but you are going to need something more solid than "he is playing different" to sway me. Ace plays different every game, do we lynch him for that?
My analysis is an extension of Caller's analysis. It is not all based on meta considerations. Mafia want to make it look like they're contributing without actually contributing. They want to look like they're being aggressive townies without having to be accountable for their actions. They want to push lynches without being fingered for starting the bandwagon. They want to appear to be leading lynches even though the lynches don't get anywhere.
Kavdragon has done exactly that. He appears to be pro-town in attacking Node, even though he doesn't follow up on it and pretty much ignores it thereafter. Kavdragon is trying to hide the fact that he doesn't want to be responsible for any lynch. This is clearly what mafia want to do. The comparison to the XXXVIII and XXXIV games just solidify this line of reasoning. Kavdragon's behavior in past games lines up exactly with what we would expect a mafia to do.
Please don't take the fact that I accused you earlier personally. Kavdragon is now my target. If you can look at this objectively I think you'll come to the same conclusion as I did too.
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On May 18 2011 12:03 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +
You're afraid of good players. You're afraid that we will actually get you lynched, so you're not taking your chances.
That is a great point. Why so timid KD? I think we have to avoid lynching Barundar right now for sure though. Don't like those votes on him at all.
For the most part I agree. Dreamflower and KillerSOS were on my Barundar list, but other than that, the other 3 should be voting someone else. Kavdragon is a wayy better target than Barundar.
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On May 18 2011 12:03 Ace wrote:
##vote Radfield
So much for being anti-finger pointing, huh? :D
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Well that was silly.
Please don't screw the vote list up with vote rigging. To the townies voting for me (I'm looking at you bum), I hope you shape up after this!
My reads for day 0+1 was:
Mafia:
Incognito (obv)
one of dreamflower/kitaman - lurk all day-->weak reason to vote me
KillerSOS - clearly watching thread without writing, dooms me without even posting.
OriginalName - surfing modkill tresshold, reading thread but placeholder vote.
I didn't find Radfield to be mafia, traitor at worst.
Take my reads with a grain of salt, its day 1 after all.
In general I don't think mafia was very active day 1. Town did the work for them by throwing around mass accusations. The town had a serious case of everyone thinking they where smarter than everyone else. Sometimes playing town is not about accusations, but about picking the right persons to listen to. All mafia had to do was lay low.
GL everyone~
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On May 18 2011 12:28 Barundar wrote:Well that was silly. Please don't screw the vote list up with vote rigging. To the townies voting for me (I'm looking at you bum), I hope you shape up after this! My reads for day 0+1 was: Mafia:Incognito (obv) one of dreamflower/kitaman - lurk all day-->weak reason to vote me KillerSOS - clearly watching thread without writing, dooms me without even posting. OriginalName - surfing modkill tresshold, reading thread but placeholder vote. I didn't find Radfield to be mafia, traitor at worst. Take my reads with a grain of salt, its day 1 after all. In general I don't think mafia was very active day 1. Town did the work for them by throwing around mass accusations. The town had a serious case of everyone thinking they where smarter than everyone else. Sometimes playing town is not about accusations, but about picking the right persons to listen to. All mafia had to do was lay low. GL everyone~
You seem to sleep for a rather short time.
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On May 18 2011 12:34 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 12:28 Barundar wrote:Well that was silly. Please don't screw the vote list up with vote rigging. To the townies voting for me (I'm looking at you bum), I hope you shape up after this! My reads for day 0+1 was: Mafia:Incognito (obv) one of dreamflower/kitaman - lurk all day-->weak reason to vote me KillerSOS - clearly watching thread without writing, dooms me without even posting. OriginalName - surfing modkill tresshold, reading thread but placeholder vote. I didn't find Radfield to be mafia, traitor at worst. Take my reads with a grain of salt, its day 1 after all. In general I don't think mafia was very active day 1. Town did the work for them by throwing around mass accusations. The town had a serious case of everyone thinking they where smarter than everyone else. Sometimes playing town is not about accusations, but about picking the right persons to listen to. All mafia had to do was lay low. GL everyone~ You seem to sleep for a rather short time.
Ye I care that much
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On May 18 2011 12:35 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 12:34 Incognito wrote:On May 18 2011 12:28 Barundar wrote:Well that was silly. Please don't screw the vote list up with vote rigging. To the townies voting for me (I'm looking at you bum), I hope you shape up after this! My reads for day 0+1 was: Mafia:Incognito (obv) one of dreamflower/kitaman - lurk all day-->weak reason to vote me KillerSOS - clearly watching thread without writing, dooms me without even posting. OriginalName - surfing modkill tresshold, reading thread but placeholder vote. I didn't find Radfield to be mafia, traitor at worst. Take my reads with a grain of salt, its day 1 after all. In general I don't think mafia was very active day 1. Town did the work for them by throwing around mass accusations. The town had a serious case of everyone thinking they where smarter than everyone else. Sometimes playing town is not about accusations, but about picking the right persons to listen to. All mafia had to do was lay low. GL everyone~ You seem to sleep for a rather short time. Ye I care that much
So mafia wasn't active day 1, yet I'm mafia? Would you say I was inactive? I'd say that I am the most visible player in the thread, but of course I could be wrong.
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On May 18 2011 12:36 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 12:35 Barundar wrote:On May 18 2011 12:34 Incognito wrote:On May 18 2011 12:28 Barundar wrote:Well that was silly. Please don't screw the vote list up with vote rigging. To the townies voting for me (I'm looking at you bum), I hope you shape up after this! My reads for day 0+1 was: Mafia:Incognito (obv) one of dreamflower/kitaman - lurk all day-->weak reason to vote me KillerSOS - clearly watching thread without writing, dooms me without even posting. OriginalName - surfing modkill tresshold, reading thread but placeholder vote. I didn't find Radfield to be mafia, traitor at worst. Take my reads with a grain of salt, its day 1 after all. In general I don't think mafia was very active day 1. Town did the work for them by throwing around mass accusations. The town had a serious case of everyone thinking they where smarter than everyone else. Sometimes playing town is not about accusations, but about picking the right persons to listen to. All mafia had to do was lay low. GL everyone~ You seem to sleep for a rather short time. Ye I care that much So mafia wasn't active day 1, yet I'm mafia? Would you say I was inactive? I'd say that I am the most visible player in the thread, but of course I could be wrong.
Not until you got under pressure no. You disagree?
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Even before I was supposedly "pressured", I haven't been trying to hide. I mean, if you look at my post times you'll see that my explanation that I was out of town actually does make sense. And like I've said before, I invite people to scrutinize me, since I know I'm town. Even if you don't like my playstyle, I'd still say that I've been the most controversial player here, even before I was supposedly "pressured". I'm just curious that you think I wasn't "active" earlier and that apparently I'm not noticed until now.
And from your previous observation that mafia was content having 10 lynch targets, I'd say that if I was mafia, I'd be content to sit out on the sidelines and watch someone else get lynched, no?
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United States22154 Posts
Fuck it, I read callers argument against Kav, and I think its the most solid piece of analysis in this thread, no meta considerations, just behavioral analysis. And frankly it makes sense...
Here's hoping that Caller isn't mafia and is just swaying my vote. If you are town, I apologize profusely Kav, nothing sucks more than being the day1 lynch, but it needs to be someone and the case against you makes sense to me. Plus we need to consolidate our votes, we are far too spread out at the moment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Kavdragon
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Even before I was supposedly "pressured", I haven't been trying to hide. I mean, if you look at my post times you'll see that my explanation that I was out of town actually does make sense. And like I've said before, I invite people to scrutinize me, since I know I'm town. Even if you don't like my playstyle, I'd still say that I've been the most controversial player here, even before I was supposedly "pressured". I'm just curious that you think I wasn't "active" earlier and that apparently I'm not noticed until now.
You keep talking about your playstyle and whether people like it :/. I didn't vote you for your playstyle, I voted you for your lack of reasons. You have only started doing analysis and reasons after you got a head in vote.
And from your previous observation that mafia was content having 10 lynch targets, I'd say that if I was mafia, I'd be content to sit out on the sidelines and watch someone else get lynched, no?
You seemed quite content until you actually got a head...
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I'm absolutely not comfortable lynching kav today. I'm having a hard time convincing myself to even switch my vote to one of the two lynchees at the moment.
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On May 18 2011 12:54 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +Even before I was supposedly "pressured", I haven't been trying to hide. I mean, if you look at my post times you'll see that my explanation that I was out of town actually does make sense. And like I've said before, I invite people to scrutinize me, since I know I'm town. Even if you don't like my playstyle, I'd still say that I've been the most controversial player here, even before I was supposedly "pressured". I'm just curious that you think I wasn't "active" earlier and that apparently I'm not noticed until now. You keep talking about your playstyle and whether people like it :/. I didn't vote you for your playstyle, I voted you for your lack of reasons. You have only started doing analysis and reasons after you got a head in vote. Show nested quote +And from your previous observation that mafia was content having 10 lynch targets, I'd say that if I was mafia, I'd be content to sit out on the sidelines and watch someone else get lynched, no? You seemed quite content until you actually got a head...
Actually if I was mafia, I'd have up to 6 teammates to help defend me. I probably would've never been ahead. I wouldn't need to pop up randomly and defend myself. Unless of course you want to call all my supporters mafia. I'd just take a step back and analyze the whole situation for a moment. If I am mafia, I'm the craziest most terrible mafia ever.
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EPT
