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I told you: if elected, I am an invincible double-shot vigilante. How are vigilantes generally used? You kill people who are very predominantly Mafia, and that's what I'm going to do. Being that I have my own excellentlucky hunches to back up my analysis, as well as a Detective check, you can bet that I'll be shooting Mafia, and I'm going to obviously be calling out my shots. Vigilantes generally confirm themselves in other games by breadcrumbing shots, and I have no need for such subtlety.
yeah right
you're gonna kill mafia while they actually help you by possibly killing a asassin, giving up your night-actions in the progress
Reiterating what I said above, I'm shooting anti-town targets, predominantly Mafia at first then moving into Assassins later on. If hits overlap, traditionally Mafia takes precedence. Yet again, that's a waste of KP for them. And if they hit Veterans, then obviously the Vet speaks up like normal, saying he took a shot in the night.
If hits overlap, traditionally Mafia takes precedence
YEAAAAAAAAAAH, right, you're gonna ignore your own win conditions because you're such a nice person
keep trying, you're pretty amusing.
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Also, gonna placeholder for now, so that I don't get modkilled by accident - doesn't look like Pandain is anywhere near to winning, so I'll put a vote on him.
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I'm actually a bit afraid of how much quick popularity GMarshal received in the polls. It could just be people innocently bandwagoning onto his case since he campaigned first, but is it very unlikely that the mafia wouldn't try to instigate a bandwagon from the get go?
Even though my gut reaction says that he should and probably will be mayor, I'm so seriously wary of it backfiring. Is there any merit to handpicking someone who hasn't proclaimed their candidacy, but has received pro-town reads from most people?
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On April 11 2011 08:25 urashimakt wrote:
Is there any merit to handpicking someone who hasn't proclaimed their candidacy, but has received pro-town reads from most people?
This doesnt work. it ends up splitting the votes and giving mafia control of election.
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Wow guys, seriously stop with the spam, there are too many people in this game to have 40 pages already!!!!!!
I like Kav's reasoning the best even though I Fos'd you yesterday. I don't feel comfortable with someone who has a different objective being mayor, but pardoner is fine. I'm sticking with my gmarshal vote because I feel comfortable with him as mayor. I'm not getting a good read on DrH just yet.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On April 11 2011 08:05 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 02:44 kitaman27 wrote:On April 10 2011 18:25 urashimakt wrote:On April 10 2011 17:02 Protactinium wrote:
Wait, not related to the game, but are you saying you're going to report me for smurfing?
Uh... I'm a staff member. I have several known smurfs running around. This is just for Mafia? Nope, it was just a joke from complaining about your face spam before the game started. Had no actual intention to report a well-known member for doing something that's not against any rules anywhere. Sorry, I suppose it was a little far out there. On April 10 2011 17:07 chaoser wrote:On April 10 2011 16:59 DropBear wrote:Hi everyone, just got home. First thing that struck me is how many people are running for mayor. On April 10 2011 16:02 Protactinium wrote:
Unless you actively lynch Assassins (who most likely are going to either keep quiet or try to act overly pro-town) or they are killed by Mafia, I don't complete my mission objective. I don't really care how long it takes: there are 40 people in this game with no extra Mafia KP and no hatters. Ladies and gents, this is why I am not voting for Protactinium. Should he be elected, the longer he stays in office the more desperate the other assassins will get. They have incentive to kill the bodyguards. What incentive does he have to do anything to help us? We're his shield. It's in his interest to stay til the end and the longer he stays in the more likely townies will die unnecessarily. I am much more comfortable voting for someone who is useful AND pro-town like chaoser or GMarshal. The back and forth between Kavdragon and DocH is suss and I don't trust either of them enough. I think it's been covered but assassins acting desperate won't help them win. They have incentive to kill bodyguards yes, but shooting indiscriminately into town isn't going to net them bodyguard kills. It's a 40 man game. They have 3 KP a piece, 1 of which has to be used on an assassin. So really they all have 2 KP apiece to use whichever way they feel like. Aside from hunting other assassins, you really think they're all going to be trying to kill bodyguards which they don't know who is? If anything they'll try to kill each other off first, hope mafia hits bodyguards and then when all the bodyguards are dead, shoot Prot. There's no reason for them to throw their KP away trying to kill BG when they don't know how they are. This. Assassins that are playing to win are not going to be a threat. Protactinium can't ally with with the Mafia if he can't talk to them, and by BrownBear's ruling so far he can't do that via PM. Being an assassin is still going to be a waiting game, they'll just have a target they can't hit until very late into the game. The ability to pardon grants him no power to reach his own win condition. It's true that we can't force him to hold to his word about using his 2 hammers and 1 rolecheck in our favor, but there's very little reason for him not to. He only needs 1 hammer to win his game. More importantly, if he's ingratiated to play as town while he sits around for days doing nothing then we gain the analysis of a veteran. I think it's worth it. Suppose you are an assassin. What gives you the best chance to hit the other assassins: a) Give up two of your kp to town and hope your 1/40 shot hits the other assassins b) Use all three kp to try and hit assassins This should be pretty obvious. He has little incentive to help town once he actually is elected. As mayor, he will lynch and vote against assassin suspects. Town does not want this. As pardoner, he will never pardon. On April 10 2011 21:17 Barundar wrote:
From all the candidates, I'm interested in hearing how you think our pardoner should be used, the way you will be using your mayor role, and your current mafia reads. I'm still running too for pardoner. I think the role should be used for obvious bandwagons. Others are saying they will make the "tough" choice and save those who they have a feeling might be innocent. Instead, I will try to prevent innocents from receiving the most votes to by lynched in the first place. Seems like common sense. On April 10 2011 23:16 Jackal58 wrote:
Protactinum as mayor pretty much guarantees scum don't get it. Any guarantee that scum doesn't hold those extra votes at end game is a win for town. No it doesn't. Protract could still be scum. For those who say that there is no way he would take that kind of risk, there are 8 scum. It could be a high risk, high reward kind of situation. Either way, as mayor he would not have the towns best intentions at mind, which is something you shouldn't be supporting. On April 10 2011 23:21 Jackal58 wrote:
No voting thread yet??? Is Bum hosting this? The timing is all fucked up.
##VOTE: Protactinum for mayor
And I don't know how you guys think you're voting for a pardoner. Pardoner is the first loser in the mayor race. Stop voting for a pardoner cause you aren't voting for anybody. That race doesn't exist. Second most votes gets pardoner. I assume town is competent enough to manage to work it out. Wouldn't it make more sense to give it to someone to wants the role, rather than someone who loses trying to be mayor? On April 10 2011 20:08 aidnai wrote:
Kita is definitely overreacting against Protact. Good DT check right there. Could you elaborate? I think I've been pretty pro-town so far. On April 10 2011 20:26 aidnai wrote:
BTW kavdragon is a stupid day one lynch. He's a damn good liar, but if anybody had bothered to to behavioural analysis it should have been obvious he was not town last game -_-. He'll be active and a fairly easy read in another day or two.
Plus there's still like a dozen people that haven't even posted yet... This is a total flip in philosophy from pregame. Siblings sticking up for each other? I might have to keep an eye on you. It may be overreacting, but this seems like perfect kita logic. I read every single post of PYP3 with excruciating detail, and let's not talk about how kitaman27 played... Cough cough shoot the pretty much confirmed townie that netted a ridiculous number of Mafia multiple times. While he's not being protown he's also not being very anti-town either. Honestly, those types of labels don't really work too well beyond blatant examples for the first day, before anything can be "proven"
Cute, you quotes all my posts and then rather than responding, you reference my worst game in an attempt to discredit me. I must be missing your point because I fail to see how this is an appropriate response to the posts you quoted. Oh wait, you aren't town so that was your intent.
On April 11 2011 08:05 Protactinium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 17:21 kitaman27 wrote:On April 10 2011 17:11 chaoser wrote:On April 10 2011 17:05 DropBear wrote:I forgot to highlight the bit saying unless you actively lynch assassins, he doesn't win. Basically, he wants us to lynch assassin's for him. On April 10 2011 16:06 kitaman27 wrote:On April 10 2011 16:02 Protactinium wrote:
I don't need to and I don't care to lynch other Assassins. I shoot them at night with my last bullet. I stopped reading here. The assassin, whose goal is the kill other assassins, is trying to tell us he doesn't want to lynch assassins. Good point by Kita. You are going to direct lynches at them, yes you are not. There is pretty blatant contradiction here. More thoughts to follow. He does win, he doesn't need to lynch assassins to win, he just needs them to all be dead. Whether that's from his own KP, mafia's KP or lynch, doesn't matter. The moment we think he's not playing "pro-town" we can lynch him. What's to stop him from blackmailing town with the identities of the bodyguards once we decide the time has come? Or maybe the identity of the medic/dt? He certainly wouldn't go down without a fight, plus that's a lynch we should be using on scum, not black. On April 10 2011 17:11 chaoser wrote:
At least he brings two KP and a check to the table. He has no real reason to go against town. There's no way he'll win the assassin game by day 2, not even close. At most he'll win late game. I say we give him pardoner, use his sexy sexy brain and KP/check powers and profit. It'd then be in the mafia's best interest to take out black so that the assassin game can end early and Prot is whisked off. That's good for town cause then they need to focus on black, not green. Shooting scum does not further his win condition. If he shoots, its going to be because he thinks he is hitting an assassin. He brought up a good point earlier. If town wins, he loses. Why are you defending him so much? Didn't I already say I was going to use my last bullet to shoot them? I have no reason to lynch them , since it doesn't matter whether they die during the day or night other than the fact that they'll be able to fire off a shot if they're not lynched--and that shot can still hit town, Mafia, or another Assassin.
Of course you have a reason to lynch them. Its part of your win condition to kill other assassins. Why throw away your final shot when you could lynch them? That's an unnecessary risk. Does town really buy this?
You know as well as I know that town will not punish you for carrying out your own agenda. You can pretend to be trying to shoot a scum. but in reality you will be assassin sniping.
On April 11 2011 08:05 Protactinium wrote:
If the game were already at LYLO for the town, then I've already lost if I save Mafia. Isn't it obvious? Being elected means allying with the town completely. There's no way and no reason I would change 'allegiances', barring some ridiculous scenario that even I haven't planned for (not going to happen).
Consider a late game situation, in which 1 scum remain. If that scum is lynched you lose. Therefore, you will be 100% against town if they are ever in a position to win. I think this is pretty clear.
Since no one has come out and asked for some reason,
How many assassins are there?
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Wow, that's a good question. I can't believe no one bothered to ask that. Although, if he's lying about assassin, is it gonna be super helpful?
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United States22154 Posts
Pro said in one of his posts that there are 3, I'd dig up the exact post but those are walls of words.
Also Eiii slipped up and said there were three earlier too, meaning he is one of the Assassins ^_^
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United States4714 Posts
I think it would be in prots favor to lie about the number of assassins, especially if he is one himself. The only people who will know if hes lieing are the other assassins and so they may assume hes actually scum instead.
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So far we have a lot of votes for gmarshall, many by people who haven't given reasons or contributed to the thread.
Lanaia
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2011 13:59 Lanaia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 13:55 tnkted wrote:On April 10 2011 13:54 chaoser wrote:This is a semi-open setup. Roles and their abilities will be disclosed, however role counts will not. Roles below may or may not be a part of this setup. Touche. Still, I think not having a medic would be pretty insane. Exactly this. Sorry, I'll be posting more tomorrow, the boyfriend and I are watching a movie. I will be voting for GMarshal, for the record. If the assassin is mafia, why does he need protection exactly? Is it just from vigs?
Elaborate on why you are voting please, don't just say you are voting gmarshall
Robellicose
+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2011 04:42 Robellicose wrote:
I agree with chaoser about the other assassins. They have very few chances to take out the other assassins, so they're unlikely to be shooting bodyguards even if they knew exactly who the bodyguards were.
I think the assassins are much more likely to lay low and wait for the mafia to deal with the bodyguards. Having an assassin mayor won't draw more fire for the town. Having said that, I still think it's better to have a town mayor, so I'm keeping my vote on the candidate I believe most likely to be town (GMarshall).
why do you think he is town, elaborate please
Coagulation- can't find any justification for voting him in thread, correct me if im wrong. Otherwise would like some reasoning.
OriginalName-
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2011 13:33 OriginalName wrote:
Well GMarshal you actually put forward an agreeable plan.
Lynching inactives LURKERS Great idea unless you have a really obvious and active scum day 1 (Which I would not discount with so many newbies).
My really base reads right now are GMarshal is town. Ive been on a scumteam with him he has more holes than swiss cheese.
However as a mayor I would like to know what his plans are after Day 1 as lets face it D1 lynch is a damn crapshoot 80% of the time and when I vote I want more long term goals and ideas in mind Im not amazing at reads however if people do put forward them I will take the time to look at their scum reads.
Another thing - one thing I picked up from a vet and I think we ought to start doing is analysing tge posts of those nightkilled. Imagine if we looked at GMs reads in insane 2 GF may have been outed faster creating a completely different game (ie Blacks wouldnt have made enough money for the names).
So there ##Vote Gmarshal and all dat jazz.
Seems solid at first glance, but there is no real reasoning other than he "knows" that gm is bad at scum. hmmmm
Mig-
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2011 15:13 Mig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 14:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
it's just shit everyone else said, sounds like you're regurgitating the points strong players have made to make yourself sound agreeable somehow. if you were typing up that small post at the same time we already went through all that then you're the worlds slowest typist I am really slow. Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 14:51 GMarshal wrote:
So, to counteract the fact that you have been adding little let me ask you a few little questions
Who is your #1 town read?
Not counting inactives, who is your number 1 scum read?
Who is your favorite Starcraft Player? #1 town read you- a lot of people vouched they could tell if you were mafia. If you were all mafia I don't think they would put themselves out there backing you because if you did end up being mafia it could be traced right back to all of them so I assume their opinions are genuine. #2 kavdragon but only because I didn't agree with his points about the assassin. I don't have any other real analysis. #3 for bw it was mondragon for sc2 jinro I guess I am playing pretty terribly so far regardless of what I am. All I can say is this is my first time playing and I was genuinely trying to help. As the game goes on and I learn I will provide better analysis.
ok so he says that he is voting because gmarshall is his number one town read, and that he is FOLLOWING what others are doing.
AirbladeOrange-
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2011 18:10 AirbladeOrange wrote:
My instincts tell me to vote for the flashy guy. Marshal seems like he would be a guy with a fancy looking suit based on the pretty pictures presented in his campaign post.
wut couldn't find any other reasoning, rest of the thread u were just drH bashing.
M0nsterChef- votes with no posts, no explanation
conclusion
FOS at gmarshall and the people who voted for him with no reason. would love some more experienced players to come and analyse more of this. DrH, protact, chaoser etcetc.
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On April 11 2011 07:49 kevconsim wrote:
I think i have decided that the safe bet is too put gmarshal in their.
##Vote Gmarshal for mayor
Oh yeah that just happened
throwing it out there right now
I THINK GMARSHALL IS SCUM, as well as a number of his voters including M0nsterChef, Kevconsim and Original name, although everyone in my first gmarshall vote count post is officially fos by me
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Original name did a mig analysis as he is getting heat from a lot of people and confirmed him townie...
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I'm going to ignore Pandain completely for now. While I appreciate the sentiment and support (pre-fake claim), honestly Pandain is best left alone for the first day. He's becoming a better player, and given the right circumstances can be ridiculously useful to his team (be it town or Mafia), but I choose not to listen to him on Day 1. Fadoodle.
On April 11 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote:
We can't have protract be mayor. If he plays to his win condition at all, we're left with a mayor who people will constantly second-guess, whose three votes will almost certainly be countered by three switched votes from players who will vote the opposite way of him. In addition, the controversy his every vote will cause will give mafia an excellent opportunity to slip between the cracks and promote conflict in the town. Regardless of whether or not he is the best candidate, electing him would be extremely detrimental to town, if for no other reason than the fact that people are so divided over this.
Personally, I don't think he's actually demonstrated to me that hes really the assassin and not the GF framing himself black. If he's who he says he is, then he is absolutely capable of pulling such a trick over on us. Who could possibly counterclaim? Another assassin? They don't know if he's one of them or not. In fact, if I was the godfather and a vet, this is precisely the strategy I would use to get elected mayor. I'd tell everyone I am 'so sick of mafia, I just want to make this game fun' and I would rely on my reputation to convince people that I know what I'm doing. I think I made clear in the previous earlygame (insane 2) my opinion on relying on reputation when I opposed Kav's mayoral campaign.
However, he is a tried and proven player and an excellent analyzer. As such, I am tempted to keep him alive... but on a leash. He can't be in a position of power, but to lose such an excellent player this early in the game would be pretty painful.
Nonetheless, we are presented with an opportunity here. We have a known target. We can be 100% certain that if we don't elect Protract he is going to be hit tonight.
Tnkted's Plan
We don't elect Protract. Instead, we use him as bait.
Watcher should watch Protract. In the morning, you should post everyone who visited him. Any assassins that visit protract in the night will be revealed to each other (something I'm certain they don't want) and any mafia trying to hit our strongest player will be revealed as well.
Of course, we reveal our watcher in this plan, but is it worth it to the assassins to trade their anonymity for one kill? It would completely end their parts in the game by the second night, and would turn an enjoyable game of lurking in the shadows into certain death.
Thoughts?
If you don't elect me, Mafia isn't going to shoot me. They'll just let other Assassins deal with me. And if you're watching them, you can know who they are! Whoopie! And if you're town, who cares about finding Assassins? Your plan wastes an asset that could be used to find Mafia, considering how powerful the Watcher role can be. I'm glad you want to keep me alive because I'm good, but honestly that won't net you anything. Remember, I don't actually have any formal/legal allegiance to the town, so there's no reason for you to waste resources on me.
On April 11 2011 04:50 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 04:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 11 2011 04:44 tnkted wrote:
We can't have protract be mayor. If he plays to his win condition at all, we're left with a mayor who people will constantly second-guess, whose three votes will almost certainly be countered by three switched votes from players who will vote the opposite way of him. In addition, the controversy his every vote will cause will give mafia an excellent opportunity to slip between the cracks and promote conflict in the town. Regardless of whether or not he is the best candidate, electing him would be extremely detrimental to town, if for no other reason than the fact that people are so divided over this.
Personally, I don't think he's actually demonstrated to me that hes really the assassin and not the GF framing himself black. If he's who he says he is, then he is absolutely capable of pulling such a trick over on us. Who could possibly counterclaim? Another assassin? They don't know if he's one of them or not. In fact, if I was the godfather and a vet, this is precisely the strategy I would use to get elected mayor. I'd tell everyone I am 'so sick of mafia, I just want to make this game fun' and I would rely on my reputation to convince people that I know what I'm doing. I think I made clear in the previous earlygame (insane 2) my opinion on relying on reputation when I opposed Kav's mayoral campaign.
However, he is a tried and proven player and an excellent analyzer. As such, I am tempted to keep him alive... but on a leash. He can't be in a position of power, but to lose such an excellent player this early in the game would be pretty painful.
Nonetheless, we are presented with an opportunity here. We have a known target. We can be 100% certain that if we don't elect Protract he is going to be hit tonight.
Tnkted's Plan
We don't elect Protract. Instead, we use him as bait.
Watcher should watch Protract. In the morning, you should post everyone who visited him. Any assassins that visit protract in the night will be revealed to each other (something I'm certain they don't want) and any mafia trying to hit our strongest player will be revealed as well.
Of course, we reveal our watcher in this plan, but is it worth it to the assassins to trade their anonymity for one kill? It would completely end their parts in the game by the second night, and would turn an enjoyable game of lurking in the shadows into certain death.
Thoughts? bait for what? we don't care about the assassins why would we waste the watchers night action trying to catch assassins that absolutely dont matter to us also assassins can't kill n1 Because it keeps the assassins from wanting to kill Protract. If they kill him we reveal who they are. Perhaps the watcher isn't actually watching protract, but if he is they are revealed. It makes killing him a giant risk and allows us to vote an actual townie into office.
No, no, and no. You vote who you think is town into office. You can't prove anything right now, nor will you be able to check said person elected later on because of his/her immunity to night actions. Anybody can play pro-town early on and won't draw suspicion, and the set of {Anybody} includes the blatant subset of {Mafia}. I'm guaranteeing you that I'm not Mafia.
...I can now skip a lot of pages since I don't need to deal with anything Pandain-related.
On April 11 2011 06:03 OriginalName wrote:
Back from RL issues.
Im gonna recap to myself what happened along wkth opinions
Protact getting support - Why is near confirmed non town getting an elected role.
PANDAIN CLAIMING DT - What. The. Fuck. Was my first reaction. my second how do we know hes not lying. Sure theres no counterclaim but who would counterclaim D1 DT, theres likely more than one so how would we know yatta yatta add in wifom done mafia has a free dt kill D1 we get no breadcrumbs. Second its completely safe for panda to claim DT as scum. Scumteam elects him as Godfather and even if DT checks and confirms its like DF all over again (minus the D2 victory).
How has Pandain only gotten the your an idiot reaction- Hes just abusing his metagame to fuck with town FOS Pandain
Im goin to keep my vote on GM cause as wishy washy as people are making him out to be hes still quite protown.
Hello obvious person saying nothing! Again you don't give any unique or new reason, or even bother to back it up with more than one line. Actually, that reason isn't a reason: you're simply just asking a question that's been shouted out by naysayers for 30 pages now. Mafia!
On April 11 2011 06:13 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 11 2011 06:10 GMarshal wrote:On April 11 2011 06:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
so vote for me and put protact in as pardoner so we can at least force him to use his powers for us without wasting a significant role on him imo we can't "force" him to do anything without hurting the town... we've gone through this, the only conceivable plan of forcing him to do anything wastes far too many town resources. We can *hope* he does what he says he will, and I'm not voting based on *hope*. Either way, I'm done arguing about pro. I think if he is at least put up as pardoner then we will shut up about him at least. As long as he agrees to use his check on our whim I don't see the problem with that. No, quite the opposite. If we put him as pardoner, he will be scrutinized and distract the town for the first half of the game. The real way for us to stop talking about him is to not elect him and let him get night killed by the other assassins.
You'll scrutinize whoever is elected. By your logic, scrutinizing said persons will cause you to distract yourself. Without me, you'll constantly be going "oh but are you really being pro-town, or are you faking it? Am I WiFOMing myself right now? Am I? Am I?"
I feel like I could say a lot more to you and lecture on and on for hours, but it's not worth it. Also, I didn't respond to you because you weren't worth responding to. This is exactly the same as your obstinate and utterly stupid play in PYP3: you don't see reason buddy.
On April 11 2011 06:43 Kavdragon wrote:Screw it. I'm still 10 pages behind cause i had a sound gig I was running this morning, but this needs to get out there asap. (Sorry if it ignores stuff that has happened since page 31) Protactinium is Red.
Dr.H is Red.First and foremost, don't let anyone fool you into thinking that the mayor is a unimportant role. It's EXTREMELY powerful, and VERY helpful to the town. This is a problem for the scum team, so they need a plan to bring it down quickly. So what do you do? First, you try to get a member into the office. It doesn't matter WHICH spot because they are both told the names of the bodyguards, and it doesn't matter HOW it's done, because the person put into that seat will be a sacrifice. Letting one of 8 members die is an excellent trade if you knock out the mayor, and secure the pardoner's role for it. As a bonus you can knock out most, if not all meaningful discussion the first day. Now how can this be done? Have one member claim assassin, have another intimidating member bully and be extremely negative of everyone else running for mayor. My case for Protactinium v1.0 Protactinium has done only one thing so far, and that is announce and defend his Assassin claim Gambit. An interesting, and somewhat appealing plan at first glance, but upon deeper inspection doesn't make sense. I know that Protact is a VERY skilled scum player. He's a good player all around. This gambit of his is a huge risk, because he doesn't know if town will let him in. If he played it quietly, he'd have a better chance than most. He says he came up with a new way to try to survive: become pardoner. It makes sense for a little bit, because that spot is protected. But there's a problem: As he has said multiple times, he wants to use this to get into the endgame, where he can throw his last hammer and then be done. It would work if the mayor lived that long, but to quote foolishness, "Mayors have a pretty high mortality rate". He wants to hid behind bodyguards, but look how fast they fell in insane! Over all, there is SOME validity to the strategy, but not NEARLY enough for someone of Protact's skill level to try it. It's not his level of play. It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, what if he's Red? It'll become apparent enough pretty quickly, and he'll die. So that makes no sense, right? WRONG. There are 8 players on the scum team, and the mayor is a very powerful role. You can cause TONS of havoc from this position, and if you play it right, you might even be able to survive for a few days and stop a lynch. It doesn't even matter if the lynch was going to kill a townie or mafia, because when you flip, people will see that mafia stopped a lynch, and that person is sure to be lynched again. This saves them a whole day either way. This is EXACTLY the level of play I would expect out of an excellent scum player. Before you say that Mafia wouldn't sacrifice one of their better players, it's was done before when Protact and BloodyC0bler were playing in XXVIII. Protactinium is SCUMHe is my currently on my "to-be-lynched" list, and even if you don't agree with my conclusion that he is definitely scum, you cannot deny that there is a strong possibility, and because of this, he should not be voted into office. No question.My Case for Dr.Helvetica v1.0 I've only played with Dr.H once before, and that was in Salem. It was my first game, and I was subbed in. he played EXTREMELY differently in that game. He was positive, helpful, and gave good insight and ideas freely. This game he has been extremely negative of almost anything suggested. He has used his considerable prowess at being intimidating to bully players, and stomp on very pro-town ideas. On top of that, he has been posting TONS and been pretty spammy about it too. There's a lot of new players, so what better way to scare them off than to drown them with hundreds of posts? Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 04:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
kavdragon is saying a lot of useless bullshit trying to appear protown and basically his posts are this:
words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words words
obviously no mafia would say THIS much "pro-town" stuff that everyone already knows amirite ;o????
i'm not buying it. you did this same thing in pokemafia which i hosted Stomping on my attempts to help newer players. Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 11:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
so many words gmarshal
so many words Stomping on Gmarshal's attempt at running for mayor. Show nested quote +On April 10 2011 13:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On April 10 2011 13:31 tnkted wrote:
Yeah we better make this clear:
when you vote, vote in both threads. that way we can see who voted for what.
not voting in this thread will be considered a scumtell, so be careful. no its not a scumtell ill vote in the vote thread im not gonna waste my time posting all my votes in here especially since i tend to switch votes a lot this is dumb. there will be a dedicated vote thread. if you want to know who votes for who, you can read that thread. less clutter here = better Stomping on Tnkted's EXTREMELY PRO TOWN IDEA. All of this is EXTREMELY ANTI-TOWN no matter how you look at it. Everything he is doing is clearly designed to snuff out new people so that we have tons of inactive players. Doc H is a good mafia player, and there's no way that this is not being done on purpose. Doc H is mafia, and he's doing a damn good job of both spamming the thread to pieces, shutting down pro-town ideas, and intimidating new players. These are just a few examples of how he is destroying a pro-town environment in the thread. I think that everyone has seen this for themselves though. He has almost 100 posts and it's not even half way through day 1! He has contradicted himself multiple times with his mayoral campaign (I'm not going to run --> Mayor is unimportant, and i wish it weren't here --> I can't trust ya'll, I'm going to run). The reason why he singled me out so early was because I am dedicated to doing exactly the oposite of what he is trying to do. I will not get sucked into an argument with him that will spam the thread. I will not stop posting good advice for newer players. I know it looks scummy. I don't care. It will help newer people, and that's worth it. If I can mobilize the the masses before i die, i die a happy death. I refuse to stand by while he destroies the learning environment I am trying to build up. DoctorHelvetica is SCUM
What an excellent post! Allow me to deconstruct it.
Wait. I now actually just read your post (the part about me), and you say absolutely nothing. First off, you don't actually know my playstyle. You've never seen me play town. You've never been in a game with me as Mafia, and good lord that was such fun. While you seem to know about XXVIII I highly doubt you've actually read it. We didn't sacrifice BC. He died because there was too much on him at once, and no way to keep him alive. If you're using that to make an example of how similar these gambits are, you're silly. Hell, the only game you've probably actually read is the one where I just randomly owned everybody as the Village Idiot. Case in point: your conjectures and allegations mean nothing.
On the other hand, what if he's Red? It'll become apparent enough pretty quickly, and he'll die. So that makes no sense, right? WRONG. There are 8 players on the scum team, and the mayor is a very powerful role. You can cause TONS of havoc from this position, and if you play it right, you might even be able to survive for a few days and stop a lynch. It doesn't even matter if the lynch was going to kill a townie or mafia, because when you flip, people will see that mafia stopped a lynch, and that person is sure to be lynched again. This saves them a whole day either way.
This paragraph applies to everybody currently playing, as well as to the general "well what if we let red get an office position" question as well.
So we remove that from your case.
Over all, there is SOME validity to the strategy, but not NEARLY enough for someone of Protact's skill level to try it. It's not his level of play. It doesn't make sense.
This is EXACTLY the level of play I would expect out of an excellent scum player. Before you say that Mafia wouldn't sacrifice one of their better players, it's was done before when Protact and BloodyC0bler were playing in XXVIII.
What? How is there not enough validity? You don't actually give any examples, nor do you define cases and scenarios. You merely are going "no you" right now. And what doesn't make sense? And how? If you'd actually explain it'd be better--and I'm pretty sure the posts I have made explain why it does, in fact, made sense. Evidently, I've done my research. I highly doubt you have. Please come back when you've read 20-odd games that are similar to this one.
So we remove that from your case as well.
He says he came up with a new way to try to survive: become pardoner. It makes sense for a little bit, because that spot is protected. But there's a problem: As he has said multiple times, he wants to use this to get into the endgame, where he can throw his last hammer and then be done. It would work if the mayor lived that long, but to quote foolishness, "Mayors have a pretty high mortality rate". He wants to hid behind bodyguards, but look how fast they fell in insane!
This game is different than insane. There aren't as many loopholes and broken mechanisms, and if you honestly expect the bodyguards to fall so quickly, then elected roles are screwed anyway. It doesn't matter if the Mayor lives or not. I don't give two cents about his three extra votes, nor does it affect my gameplay as it pertains to the ultimate outcome of this game. Therefore, that point is completely useless and has no bearing on why I would be Mafia.
So we remove that from your case as well.
So you're left with this.
Protactinium has done only one thing so far, and that is announce and defend his Assassin claim Gambit. An interesting, and somewhat appealing plan at first glance, but upon deeper inspection doesn't make sense.
I know that Protact is a VERY skilled scum player. He's a good player all around. This gambit of his is a huge risk, because he doesn't know if town will let him in. If he played it quietly, he'd have a better chance than most.
You haven't given any indication that you've "inspected my plan deeply". You've simply posted cookie-cutter allegations with "what if" as your modus operandi. Of course I'm a skilled player. And I'm a very bored skilled player. This gambit is the only reason why I'm actually paying attention to this game at this point instead of just coming in around Day 3 to hunt for Assassins.
So we remove that from your case as well.
And now you're left with nothing. Just as when you started.
As for your part about DoctorHelvetica, I could care less. He may be scum, but he's certainly not scum with me. tnkted's plan is not good for the town, so why is DoctorHelvetica objecting make him scum?
On April 11 2011 06:45 Kavdragon wrote:
Oh, and I'll add that you will notice (again, at least up till page 32) that Doc H argues against protact a ton, but he never talks to him. Same with protact. Why would two people so opposed not talk to each other? It makes little sense unless they are on the same team. It's hard to talk to people in a serious conversation if they are on your scum team.
It's the same reason why I didn't address kitaman27. DoctorHelvetica's posts had nothing of value for me to address. The most he was saying was "don't let Protactinium get elected" and "just let him die", which were the first two thoughts pretty much everybody against me would have had.
On April 11 2011 06:50 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:37 redFF wrote:On April 11 2011 06:34 AirbladeOrange wrote:On April 11 2011 06:32 redFF wrote:
We need people who are obviously not going to be elected to either do a large post to cement their bid for mayor with solid reasoning or to withdraw their bids. It seems like the only people have have a chance at winning all fit this description. Do you care to call anyone out or elaborate your thoughts? It's more for later on in the mayoral race when there are people who still only have 1-2 votes. Kitaman hasn't really had any strong support so far and i haven't really see him argue for his candidacy. I'll happily argue anything you want for my candidacy. The fact that I'm not getting support shows that the mafia has no interest in backing me. Why would they want someone who is pro-town, when they could elect an assasson or someone like DrH who is always the center of attention. To summarize campaign for pardoner so far:-We should prioritize pro-towness as our biggest reason for voting for mayor. -I consider myself a pro-town player. With the exception of my single scum game, there have been more than a couple votes against me over a 10+ game period. When I'm town, I'm almost never in the lynch discussion and that's something you want with your elected officials. In addition, I'm not afraid to speak my mind and I've proved from past games that I'm not one to suddenly go inactive for days at a time. -I will argue to sway the lynch against innocents so a pardon is not even necessary. I will only use my pardon in obvious bandwagon situations. I do not believe the pardon should be used on a whim, as we valuable information to analyze. -I am completely against an assassin in office. The fact that everyone thinks we can manipulate an experienced veteran to do our bidding is not well thought out. He does not have the town's interests at mind and should not be elected. He is getting far too much support, which should concern everyone. -I've been backed by GMarshal as his running mate, the person who has received the most votes to this point.
"Pro-townness" doesn't mean you're town. Solely going off of that as your reason for choosing a Mayor is terrible.
You are historically not a pro-town player. PYP3 again. Nothing further needed on that. I highly doubt you're able to argue down a bandwagon, and as said before that's not how Pardons are to be used anyway.
Who cares if you're against an Assassin? Why is that part of your campaign? Who cares if you're backed by somebody else who also doesn't have that great of a history in playing games? If he's Mafia, he's just backing somebody who he knows will be easily to control and won't be able to harm the Mafia team.
On April 11 2011 06:56 GMarshal wrote:EBWOP: who the hell is this and why is he voting for me? He has no posts in the thread, right?
He's inexperienced. Either he doesn't understand the rules, or he's Mafia voting for Mafia. Or both. At least the first part.
On April 11 2011 06:58 OriginalName wrote:
My scum reads:
Pandain - Fakeclaim into lolno sorry not DT
Protact - Assassin or Mafia Kavs arguement against him is solid
My not sure reads:
DrH - Why so aggro bro? Leaning scum
Chaoser - Leaning pro town would be imo a great pardoner
Everyone not listed (Most leaning town to various degrees)
Town Reads:
Kavdragon - This is not his scum style at all
GMarshal
Tnk
Mafia. Learn to actually give analysis instead of hiding behind somebody.
On April 11 2011 07:02 OriginalName wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 06:55 GMarshal wrote:
Fuck, I had to decide to check the thread before leaving
Kav, I think that your call that Dr.H is scum is flat out wrong, there's no way (in my mind) that the scum team would put out two vets like that day one, especially considering one of them is a really, really influential and powerful player. Still if you get mayor which of them do you think you would lynch?
Tbh I have a town read on Dr.H for his mindless aggression, it reminds me sort of coag, except perhaps more refined. Why not? Refuge in audacity has its uses. While I will state that if DrH is not scum Protact is the assassin. DrH: What happens if Kav turns ou town after hes lynched D1? Protact: Why should we trust you to use your shots for town instead of backstabbing us?
Answered on page 45 or 46. I can't even backstab you, for crying out loud. I've already talked about why I have to play pro-town when elected.
On April 11 2011 07:29 Kavdragon wrote:As part of my plan to help newer people out, I present the first part of my guide to analysis. I was hoping to post this after i had finished the whole thing, but it would seem that we could use it already. Over the my past four games, I've had the opporunity to participate with scum teams twice. The experiance of being on a scum team was really helpful in identifying ways of finding scum, because I got to know how scum teams work; the challenges they are faced with, the reasons why scum still act scummy even though they know to avoid it, and so forth. Now that I'm not scum, I'd like to pass these things on. So without further ado, here's my two cents on scum. #1: Know your enemy:
If you want to figure out how to find scum, you have to see things from their perspective. When I first started playing mafia, I was confused how a scumtell would ever work. If there was such a thing as a scum tell, why wouldn't mafia just NOT do that thing? I didn't understand why mafia would NOT participate as much as the town, or why they would try to not contribute, while looking like they really are. Then I got on a scum team, and i figured it out: Scum tells are things that are extremely difficult to avoid even when you know about them.
When you are on a scum team, there are two key factors that alter your play: You are on a team, and you know who is scum. These are both things that you cannot avoid. Because of this, scum tells can be built off of them.
Because you are on a team, you will be talking to the other members of your team. This takes away a significant portion of your time, especially if you had team members that were as funny as mine were. Beginner scum players want to look like they are contributing because they are not good at hiding a lack of contribution yet, so they actually try to contribute. Unfortunately they don't have as much time to evaluate what is happening and what is the best plan for town at the moment. Because of this, they fall back on giving general advice, and give no real opinions on the current situation. Better/Veteran scum players actually try to look like they are contributing, but are really good at hiding the fact that they aren't. Activity can be increased to accommodated this, or excuses can be given for not contributing as much, so it can be somewhat unreliable, but it is still a good hint to work off of. (Especially when you are dealing with older players) The second difference between you and scum is that they know who is scum. Obvious, no? But it has implications that are ridiculously hard to shake. When you are scum, it's really, hard to form opinions on who looks scummy. I don't mean that it's hard to say "Incog looks scummy". I mean that it's hard to actually believe that someone looks/is scum, because you know that they aren't. This is compounded by the fact that you talking to your scum buddies when you otherwise would be going over people's posts trying to figure out who looks scummy.
To recap, the things you are looking for are a lack of contribution, and a lack of clear opinions (especially when it comes to the alignment of someone). What does this look like?
Well, the lack of contribution for new scum players will look like people posting a lot of one liners and other stuff that shows that they are there, but aren't actually contributing new ideas/opinions to the discussion. If there's a player that's just sitting around posting things like "I agree" or making non-committal statements about the situation, there's a large chance they are doing something else. It makes no sense for a townie to be around posting on the thread all day but not spending time to contribute. As players get better, the lack of contribution becomes harder to spot. Some will disguise it with relevant and helpful information. On the surface it looks like they are helping people out, but if the knowledge is common, then what have they helped with? Nothing. I'm not an advanced scum player by any means and I've not played with any, so I can't inform you as well as I'd like in this area, but ask foolishness if you have more questions. The lack of strong opinions of people is one of my favorite ways to hunt scum, because I know how hard it is to avoid it as scum. It usually manifests itself in contradiction, and will something like this: A player says that Qatol looks really scummy, and then a day later votes Qatol for mayor. When you are scum, you're thinking about what will be beneficial for your team, so you will support a lynch at one point, then forgot that you did, and say something contradictory later. A player says that they have a town read on someone, and then a while later they vote for their lynch without giving a reason for the change of mind. Contradictions like these are awesome when you catch them. Another one: Someone says that the mayor is overrated, and not that powerful, and proceeds to talk about nothing other than the mayor for the next day. The next section is on analysis and arguing/pushing for your target.
Good guide! Unfortunately, it doesn't make any case for you in this game. It's a standalone piece of work and should be treated as such, and can't be used as leverage for you to go "look I'm town clearly". I could write a protown guide and not be town in a game. It's called being able to play both sides.
On April 11 2011 08:00 Kavdragon wrote:
Alright, so to all you newcomers out there, I hope you aren't skipping through all this spam so fast that you miss this post.
Firstly, this game is about having fun. To have fun you need to get at least a little invested in the game, and you're not going to invest anything in the game by not posting.
Post in the thread for a while. Post who you think is town and why, post who you think is mafia and why. Start giving some opinions, and you will become more interested in the game. The more interested you become the more you will participate, the funner it will become.
There has been a TON of spam so far, and there have been some rude comments. Both of these are not typical of TL Mafia (Although the last game did have a lot of spam too.) Don't worry about it. Everything in this thread is said like actors on a stage. Nothing is personal, and most people are a lot friendlier out of the thread.
So what are you waiting for? Jump in and start posting. As a warning, people don't like it when you post lists/opinions without explaining them. If you give no explinatitions, there's nothing backing up your argument, and it also makes it look like you're hiding something.
So just explain yourself and you won't have people breathing down your neck. =D GL all!
Another post that doesn't actually add anything to the game. This is just like whoever-it-was-I-forget-his-name that would post the same "plan" for the town at the beginning of each and every game.
On April 11 2011 08:21 Rean wrote:Show nested quote +I told you: if elected, I am an invincible double-shot vigilante. How are vigilantes generally used? You kill people who are very predominantly Mafia, and that's what I'm going to do. Being that I have my own excellentlucky hunches to back up my analysis, as well as a Detective check, you can bet that I'll be shooting Mafia, and I'm going to obviously be calling out my shots. Vigilantes generally confirm themselves in other games by breadcrumbing shots, and I have no need for such subtlety. yeah right you're gonna kill mafia while they actually help you by possibly killing a asassin, giving up your night-actions in the progress Show nested quote +Reiterating what I said above, I'm shooting anti-town targets, predominantly Mafia at first then moving into Assassins later on. If hits overlap, traditionally Mafia takes precedence. Yet again, that's a waste of KP for them. And if they hit Veterans, then obviously the Vet speaks up like normal, saying he took a shot in the night. YEAAAAAAAAAAH, right, you're gonna ignore your own win conditions because you're such a nice person keep trying, you're pretty amusing.
Please learn to read. I'm not ignoring my own win conditions. This is called finding an alternative route. I'm getting tired of saying this, but I'm not here to play standard. What does the highlighted and bolded part even have anything to do with this case?
On April 11 2011 08:32 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 08:05 Protactinium wrote:On April 11 2011 02:44 kitaman27 wrote:On April 10 2011 18:25 urashimakt wrote:On April 10 2011 17:02 Protactinium wrote:
Wait, not related to the game, but are you saying you're going to report me for smurfing?
Uh... I'm a staff member. I have several known smurfs running around. This is just for Mafia? Nope, it was just a joke from complaining about your face spam before the game started. Had no actual intention to report a well-known member for doing something that's not against any rules anywhere. Sorry, I suppose it was a little far out there. On April 10 2011 17:07 chaoser wrote:On April 10 2011 16:59 DropBear wrote:Hi everyone, just got home. First thing that struck me is how many people are running for mayor. On April 10 2011 16:02 Protactinium wrote:
Unless you actively lynch Assassins (who most likely are going to either keep quiet or try to act overly pro-town) or they are killed by Mafia, I don't complete my mission objective. I don't really care how long it takes: there are 40 people in this game with no extra Mafia KP and no hatters. Ladies and gents, this is why I am not voting for Protactinium. Should he be elected, the longer he stays in office the more desperate the other assassins will get. They have incentive to kill the bodyguards. What incentive does he have to do anything to help us? We're his shield. It's in his interest to stay til the end and the longer he stays in the more likely townies will die unnecessarily. I am much more comfortable voting for someone who is useful AND pro-town like chaoser or GMarshal. The back and forth between Kavdragon and DocH is suss and I don't trust either of them enough. I think it's been covered but assassins acting desperate won't help them win. They have incentive to kill bodyguards yes, but shooting indiscriminately into town isn't going to net them bodyguard kills. It's a 40 man game. They have 3 KP a piece, 1 of which has to be used on an assassin. So really they all have 2 KP apiece to use whichever way they feel like. Aside from hunting other assassins, you really think they're all going to be trying to kill bodyguards which they don't know who is? If anything they'll try to kill each other off first, hope mafia hits bodyguards and then when all the bodyguards are dead, shoot Prot. There's no reason for them to throw their KP away trying to kill BG when they don't know how they are. This. Assassins that are playing to win are not going to be a threat. Protactinium can't ally with with the Mafia if he can't talk to them, and by BrownBear's ruling so far he can't do that via PM. Being an assassin is still going to be a waiting game, they'll just have a target they can't hit until very late into the game. The ability to pardon grants him no power to reach his own win condition. It's true that we can't force him to hold to his word about using his 2 hammers and 1 rolecheck in our favor, but there's very little reason for him not to. He only needs 1 hammer to win his game. More importantly, if he's ingratiated to play as town while he sits around for days doing nothing then we gain the analysis of a veteran. I think it's worth it. Suppose you are an assassin. What gives you the best chance to hit the other assassins: a) Give up two of your kp to town and hope your 1/40 shot hits the other assassins b) Use all three kp to try and hit assassins This should be pretty obvious. He has little incentive to help town once he actually is elected. As mayor, he will lynch and vote against assassin suspects. Town does not want this. As pardoner, he will never pardon. On April 10 2011 21:17 Barundar wrote:
From all the candidates, I'm interested in hearing how you think our pardoner should be used, the way you will be using your mayor role, and your current mafia reads. I'm still running too for pardoner. I think the role should be used for obvious bandwagons. Others are saying they will make the "tough" choice and save those who they have a feeling might be innocent. Instead, I will try to prevent innocents from receiving the most votes to by lynched in the first place. Seems like common sense. On April 10 2011 23:16 Jackal58 wrote:
Protactinum as mayor pretty much guarantees scum don't get it. Any guarantee that scum doesn't hold those extra votes at end game is a win for town. No it doesn't. Protract could still be scum. For those who say that there is no way he would take that kind of risk, there are 8 scum. It could be a high risk, high reward kind of situation. Either way, as mayor he would not have the towns best intentions at mind, which is something you shouldn't be supporting. On April 10 2011 23:21 Jackal58 wrote:
No voting thread yet??? Is Bum hosting this? The timing is all fucked up.
##VOTE: Protactinum for mayor
And I don't know how you guys think you're voting for a pardoner. Pardoner is the first loser in the mayor race. Stop voting for a pardoner cause you aren't voting for anybody. That race doesn't exist. Second most votes gets pardoner. I assume town is competent enough to manage to work it out. Wouldn't it make more sense to give it to someone to wants the role, rather than someone who loses trying to be mayor? On April 10 2011 20:08 aidnai wrote:
Kita is definitely overreacting against Protact. Good DT check right there. Could you elaborate? I think I've been pretty pro-town so far. On April 10 2011 20:26 aidnai wrote:
BTW kavdragon is a stupid day one lynch. He's a damn good liar, but if anybody had bothered to to behavioural analysis it should have been obvious he was not town last game -_-. He'll be active and a fairly easy read in another day or two.
Plus there's still like a dozen people that haven't even posted yet... This is a total flip in philosophy from pregame. Siblings sticking up for each other? I might have to keep an eye on you. It may be overreacting, but this seems like perfect kita logic. I read every single post of PYP3 with excruciating detail, and let's not talk about how kitaman27 played... Cough cough shoot the pretty much confirmed townie that netted a ridiculous number of Mafia multiple times. While he's not being protown he's also not being very anti-town either. Honestly, those types of labels don't really work too well beyond blatant examples for the first day, before anything can be "proven" Cute, you quotes all my posts and then rather than responding, you reference my worst game in an attempt to discredit me. I must be missing your point because I fail to see how this is an appropriate response to the posts you quoted. Oh wait, you aren't town so that was your intent. Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 08:05 Protactinium wrote:On April 10 2011 17:21 kitaman27 wrote:On April 10 2011 17:11 chaoser wrote:On April 10 2011 17:05 DropBear wrote:I forgot to highlight the bit saying unless you actively lynch assassins, he doesn't win. Basically, he wants us to lynch assassin's for him. On April 10 2011 16:06 kitaman27 wrote:On April 10 2011 16:02 Protactinium wrote:
I don't need to and I don't care to lynch other Assassins. I shoot them at night with my last bullet. I stopped reading here. The assassin, whose goal is the kill other assassins, is trying to tell us he doesn't want to lynch assassins. Good point by Kita. You are going to direct lynches at them, yes you are not. There is pretty blatant contradiction here. More thoughts to follow. He does win, he doesn't need to lynch assassins to win, he just needs them to all be dead. Whether that's from his own KP, mafia's KP or lynch, doesn't matter. The moment we think he's not playing "pro-town" we can lynch him. What's to stop him from blackmailing town with the identities of the bodyguards once we decide the time has come? Or maybe the identity of the medic/dt? He certainly wouldn't go down without a fight, plus that's a lynch we should be using on scum, not black. On April 10 2011 17:11 chaoser wrote:
At least he brings two KP and a check to the table. He has no real reason to go against town. There's no way he'll win the assassin game by day 2, not even close. At most he'll win late game. I say we give him pardoner, use his sexy sexy brain and KP/check powers and profit. It'd then be in the mafia's best interest to take out black so that the assassin game can end early and Prot is whisked off. That's good for town cause then they need to focus on black, not green. Shooting scum does not further his win condition. If he shoots, its going to be because he thinks he is hitting an assassin. He brought up a good point earlier. If town wins, he loses. Why are you defending him so much? Didn't I already say I was going to use my last bullet to shoot them? I have no reason to lynch them , since it doesn't matter whether they die during the day or night other than the fact that they'll be able to fire off a shot if they're not lynched--and that shot can still hit town, Mafia, or another Assassin. Of course you have a reason to lynch them. Its part of your win condition to kill other assassins. Why throw away your final shot when you could lynch them? That's an unnecessary risk. Does town really buy this? You know as well as I know that town will not punish you for carrying out your own agenda. You can pretend to be trying to shoot a scum. but in reality you will be assassin sniping. Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 08:05 Protactinium wrote:
If the game were already at LYLO for the town, then I've already lost if I save Mafia. Isn't it obvious? Being elected means allying with the town completely. There's no way and no reason I would change 'allegiances', barring some ridiculous scenario that even I haven't planned for (not going to happen). Consider a late game situation, in which 1 scum remain. If that scum is lynched you lose. Therefore, you will be 100% against town if they are ever in a position to win. I think this is pretty clear. Since no one has come out and asked for some reason, How many assassins are there?
Learn to read. I already said there were three.
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Sweet now we have 2 FOS on OriginalName
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United States22154 Posts
Ignoring the running for mayor for a minute (as our main goal *is* killing scum, remember?) I wrote up a nice little PbP on one of my current scum suspects Mr.Wiggles. Each post is in spoilers and my comments are in bold as usual
+ Show Spoiler +
Don't worry too much, this shouldn't be as active as insane, because, well, Insane was Insane.
Hopefully people won't spam that much in this game, and I'd even like to put in a request that people try to limit their posting unless they have something relevant/meaningful to add to the conversation.
People who just quote others, and say "I agree", or repeat the same things as others have already brought up, are perfect examples of "contributing without contributing", and that's a scum-tell.
You know this is a great way to "contribute without contributing" you state a commonly known scum tell and say no spam please... well, duh. Still I can put this off as directing new players
+ Show Spoiler +Well this isn't technically night because no one takes actions. That said, there isn't much to talk about because we can't start mayoral campaigns. This means we're limited to mostly talking about general strategy and trying to establish a town policy, like no spam/try to contribute and add to the conversation, and other guidelines we'd like to put into place.
Rehash of basic ideas, check!
+ Show Spoiler +Well if you're posting your own thoughts, then that's meaningful AND relevant, haha. But 9000 posts of cats in top hats and monocles wouldn't be. And saying "I agree" after every post isn't really contributing. If you want to agree with someone, at least add your own thought process as to why, and give some kind of explanation. That way you can look for mafia trying to make stuff up too.
Spam is bad! No duh, but then again people were posting this kind of nonsense all night 0 so its not indicative
+ Show Spoiler +My thoughts on inactives:
Don't lynch inactives, lynch lurkers.
I guess it depends on your definition of inactive, but inactive for me, is someone who's not even playing the game, and has little to no posts. For me, the better choice is to pressure lurkers, who come in and post a couple times, then disappear. I think these are the people we should really be afraid of. They're a lot more dangerous, because by maintaining only a slight activity threshold to appease the town, they're easily able to hide amongst the masses. So personally, I'd rather lynch the guy who comes in twice a cycle to post a couple sentences, than Johnny-No-Posts who's not even playing the game.
Lurkers want to hide behind a minimum of activity, inactives aren't even playing. (<--- My Take)
I'm going to watch for people acting like that.
well this *looks* like a contribution, but its a repost of an argument that town agrees on since time immemorial, its like posting "you should build drones" in response to "how do I macro better?"
+ Show Spoiler +Also, I think mafia would be more prone to trying to manipulate the town, whereas assassins would probably leave town be while focusing on finding the other assassins. So if you have two players kind've the same, but one is trying to manipulate the lynches and the other isn't, then you can differentiate them.
an actual point! Yay! ok, nothing more to see here
+ Show Spoiler +As others have said, I think voting a black in is lose-lose. There's no guarantee he'll do anything to really help us, and then we lose our mayor/pardoner.
something I agree with, fair enough
Also, as far as medicing him goes, I think we can just drop the discussion on that until Day 2. Assassins can't do anything night one, so unless mafia wants to hit him, there's no need to waste a medic on him. If he still wants to negotiate for kills later, then we can do that when he's actually in a position to kill. However, just to add to that quickly, he's actually useless to town if he's not mayor/pardoner, because if he says he's hitting a town chosen target, mafia can just RB him, because he's outed himself publicly. So, we don't want him in office, and he can't help us out of office.
again a really valid point, I have exactly one objection to it, the fact that after concluding that he is useless out of office he still talks about negotiating with the assassin, its an interesting contradiction
So, overall, I don't think he can help town much, besides giving all the other assassins a non-town target for night 2.
Right now, I'm most comfortable picking either GMarshal or Dr.H for mayor. I've gotten the strongest town reads from them, and they've both shown they're not afraid of trying to look for scum and lead town in the right direction.
Yay!
^ My thoughts.
+ Show Spoiler +Don't hit the most inactive, that's stupid. The most inactive is likely not even playing the game, or they're just going to get Modkilled. If we want to do a policy lynch on activity, do it on a lurker. You call a lurker someone contributing without contributing, but with the amount of newer players in the game, that might not be the best deciding factor for day 1. I'd say lynch someone who was really active earlier in the game, like pregame, or night 0, and who has completely disappeared with only a minimum of posts by the end of day 1.
This is a decent point, +1 townie point for it kind sir
+ Show Spoiler +How am I lurking? I'm just not rehashing the exact same points as everyone else over and over again. I was going to bring up some of the reasons I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal, but they were already raised by others, so instead of just repeating what's already been said three times I mentioned that protac isn't going to be useful to us at all if he doesn't get elected, so we shouldn't waste medics on him, just leave him for the other assassins to use hits on, keeping them off of town
Alright this is a fair defense of my "lurking" accusation, however in his previous posts he made exactly one good point, that being about the assassin
+ Show Spoiler +And now that I think of it, there's other assassin, who may or may not be using their KP on the same night, on different or similar targets. So, there's no way to tell if mafia used all four hits or not. Meaning, it's easy for red to use one of their KPs as the "assassin" KP.
I do believe this was already mentioned, neutral read on this post
+ Show Spoiler +The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2....
I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue...
this is a very, very good point and one I agree with, +1 townie point for him
Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea:
At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory.
yeah, we know this, this is kind of filler
If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well.
again, I think this is obvious
Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner.
This is an actual good point +1 town point
In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea.
+ Show Spoiler +Forgot assassin. I'd be willing to let him in as pardoner, but not mayor.
Dr.H/protac
interesting, Wiggles said "I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal" but now he is ok with a black pardoner... it is noteworthy, and if kav's theory that Pro is actualy red holds true then very, very revealing
+ Show Spoiler +No, but it looks highly suspicious that you don't post any thoughts/opinions (or anything at all really) since the game has started, and then come in and vote.
What are your thoughts on the current situation?
Why do you like GMarshal the best for mayor?
Why don't you like the other candidates?
same questions I ask, after I asked them... slightly scummy, but it could be down to simultaneous posts
Conclusion: Lurking he adds a total of two new ideas by my count and his best post is the one focused on not exposing the bgs, I'm having a hard time labeling him as anything. Hence I suggest we all keep an eye on him and make him post more, I'm leaning slightly more towards scum than town atm, but I need more to analyze
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lol mr wiggles gives me the strongest town read
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United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
lol mr wiggles gives me the strongest town read
Why? or is it your gut?
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On April 11 2011 08:57 GMarshal wrote:Ignoring the running for mayor for a minute (as our main goal *is* killing scum, remember?) I wrote up a nice little PbP on one of my current scum suspects Mr.Wiggles. Each post is in spoilers and my comments are in bold as usual + Show Spoiler +
Don't worry too much, this shouldn't be as active as insane, because, well, Insane was Insane.
Hopefully people won't spam that much in this game, and I'd even like to put in a request that people try to limit their posting unless they have something relevant/meaningful to add to the conversation.
People who just quote others, and say "I agree", or repeat the same things as others have already brought up, are perfect examples of "contributing without contributing", and that's a scum-tell.
You know this is a great way to "contribute without contributing" you state a commonly known scum tell and say no spam please... well, duh. Still I can put this off as directing new players
Well this isn't technically night because no one takes actions. That said, there isn't much to talk about because we can't start mayoral campaigns. This means we're limited to mostly talking about general strategy and trying to establish a town policy, like no spam/try to contribute and add to the conversation, and other guidelines we'd like to put into place.
Rehash of basic ideas, check! Well if you're posting your own thoughts, then that's meaningful AND relevant, haha. But 9000 posts of cats in top hats and monocles wouldn't be. And saying "I agree" after every post isn't really contributing. If you want to agree with someone, at least add your own thought process as to why, and give some kind of explanation. That way you can look for mafia trying to make stuff up too.
Spam is bad! No duh, but then again people were posting this kind of nonsense all night 0 so its not indicative My thoughts on inactives:
Don't lynch inactives, lynch lurkers.
I guess it depends on your definition of inactive, but inactive for me, is someone who's not even playing the game, and has little to no posts. For me, the better choice is to pressure lurkers, who come in and post a couple times, then disappear. I think these are the people we should really be afraid of. They're a lot more dangerous, because by maintaining only a slight activity threshold to appease the town, they're easily able to hide amongst the masses. So personally, I'd rather lynch the guy who comes in twice a cycle to post a couple sentences, than Johnny-No-Posts who's not even playing the game.
Lurkers want to hide behind a minimum of activity, inactives aren't even playing. (<--- My Take)
I'm going to watch for people acting like that.
well this *looks* like a contribution, but its a repost of an argument that town agrees on since time immemorial, its like posting "you should build drones" in response to "how do I macro better?" Also, I think mafia would be more prone to trying to manipulate the town, whereas assassins would probably leave town be while focusing on finding the other assassins. So if you have two players kind've the same, but one is trying to manipulate the lynches and the other isn't, then you can differentiate them.
an actual point! Yay! ok, nothing more to see here As others have said, I think voting a black in is lose-lose. There's no guarantee he'll do anything to really help us, and then we lose our mayor/pardoner.
something I agree with, fair enough
Also, as far as medicing him goes, I think we can just drop the discussion on that until Day 2. Assassins can't do anything night one, so unless mafia wants to hit him, there's no need to waste a medic on him. If he still wants to negotiate for kills later, then we can do that when he's actually in a position to kill. However, just to add to that quickly, he's actually useless to town if he's not mayor/pardoner, because if he says he's hitting a town chosen target, mafia can just RB him, because he's outed himself publicly. So, we don't want him in office, and he can't help us out of office.
again a really valid point, I have exactly one objection to it, the fact that after concluding that he is useless out of office he still talks about negotiating with the assassin, its an interesting contradiction
So, overall, I don't think he can help town much, besides giving all the other assassins a non-town target for night 2.
Right now, I'm most comfortable picking either GMarshal or Dr.H for mayor. I've gotten the strongest town reads from them, and they've both shown they're not afraid of trying to look for scum and lead town in the right direction.
Yay!
^ My thoughts.
Don't hit the most inactive, that's stupid. The most inactive is likely not even playing the game, or they're just going to get Modkilled. If we want to do a policy lynch on activity, do it on a lurker. You call a lurker someone contributing without contributing, but with the amount of newer players in the game, that might not be the best deciding factor for day 1. I'd say lynch someone who was really active earlier in the game, like pregame, or night 0, and who has completely disappeared with only a minimum of posts by the end of day 1.
This is a decent point, +1 townie point for it kind sir How am I lurking? I'm just not rehashing the exact same points as everyone else over and over again. I was going to bring up some of the reasons I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal, but they were already raised by others, so instead of just repeating what's already been said three times I mentioned that protac isn't going to be useful to us at all if he doesn't get elected, so we shouldn't waste medics on him, just leave him for the other assassins to use hits on, keeping them off of town
Alright this is a fair defense of my "lurking" accusation, however in his previous posts he made exactly one good point, that being about the assassin And now that I think of it, there's other assassin, who may or may not be using their KP on the same night, on different or similar targets. So, there's no way to tell if mafia used all four hits or not. Meaning, it's easy for red to use one of their KPs as the "assassin" KP.
I do believe this was already mentioned, neutral read on this post
The assassins are going to turn into the Item Game of Insane 2....
I was scum that game, so what I did, was try to keep everyone focused on the item game and away from actual analysis. I see the same thing starting to happen now, where town is going to latch onto the assassin game and get too distracted from everything else when it should be a non-issue...
this is a very, very good point and one I agree with, +1 townie point for him
Anyways, Why giving out both the names of the bodyguards is not a very good idea:
At their core, the bodyguard and pardoner are supposed to be very powerful roles that we would like to get a hold of and use for the benefit of the town. When used correctly, these roles seem like they'd be more than capable of wreaking havoc on the mafia and bringing town victory.
yeah, we know this, this is kind of filler
If no mafia are elected into office, and they are not confident that they can sway the mayor easily, the best course of action for the reds is to kill the mayor/pardoner. In order to do so, they must first kill the two bodyguards. These bodyguards are unrevealed to the town and mafia, so first mafia need to find them as well.
again, I think this is obvious
Now, you, Pandain, want to reveal the bodyguards to everyone. Why? To ostensibly put trackers on them in order to catch any assassins/mafia who want to take a shot at the mayor. However, doing this is cringe-worthy to say the least. So why wouldn't it work out? Mafia have four KP, and there are supposedly two other assassins. This means, that if there are no medics, that mafia can kill the two bodyguards as well as the mayor and pardoner in one fell swoop. So, what we'd achieve, is the entire public office dead, traded at the cost of one mafia revealed. The only way to counteract that, would be if we now, IN ADDITION to our trackers, put medic protection on the bodyguards as well. So, you're asking us to focus all of our blue power on two people. But then we just get into a WIFOM spiral where we need to decide to protect either the bodyguards to the detriment of all other pro-town players or other players to the detriment of our bodyguards and mayor/pardoner.
This is an actual good point +1 town point
In my opinion, this becomes too convoluted to even work with, when compared to keeping the bodyguards known only to the mayor/pardoner. In other words, a bad idea. Forgot assassin. I'd be willing to let him in as pardoner, but not mayor.
Dr.H/protac
interesting, Wiggles said "I thought a black mayor wouldn't be optimal" but now he is ok with a black pardoner... it is noteworthy, and if kav's theory that Pro is actualy red holds true then very, very revealing No, but it looks highly suspicious that you don't post any thoughts/opinions (or anything at all really) since the game has started, and then come in and vote.
What are your thoughts on the current situation?
Why do you like GMarshal the best for mayor?
Why don't you like the other candidates?
same questions I ask, after I asked them... slightly scummy, but it could be down to simultaneous posts
Conclusion: Lurking he adds a total of two new ideas by my count and his best post is the one focused on not exposing the bgs, I'm having a hard time labeling him as anything. Hence I suggest we all keep an eye on him and make him post more, I'm leaning slightly more towards scum than town atm, but I need more to analyze
Care to tell me why you have so many votes by people providing little to no reasoning.
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Redff you been fucking calling everyone scum left and right.
we get it. your the only town in game we get it.
Its pretty clear when the candidates are
#1 Assassin UMM IM NOT GONNA EXPLAIN WHY VOTING HIM IS BAD. NOPE.
#2 Pandain LETS SEE FAKE DT CLAIM DAY1 AND WANTS ASSASSIN IN MAYOR SEAT. NOPE
#3 Doch TO BUSY SHITTING ON ENTIRE TOWN TO FORMULATE A PLAN. NOPE.
#4 Chaoser WANTS ASSASSIN AS PARDONER REALLY REALLY FUCKING BAD. NOPE.
#5 KAVDRAGON. The only other REASONABLE Candidate aside from GM but Doch is putting me off of him.
#6 Only player that has a town read from majority of players And isnt acting retarted. OK!
Sit the fuck down redFF
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United States22154 Posts
On April 11 2011 08:42 redFF wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2011 07:49 kevconsim wrote:
I think i have decided that the safe bet is too put gmarshal in their.
##Vote Gmarshal for mayor Oh yeah that just happened throwing it out there right now I THINK GMARSHALL IS SCUM, as well as a number of his voters including M0nsterChef, Kevconsim and Original name, although everyone in my first gmarshall vote count post is officially fos by me
I agree that all the random votes on me are fishy as hell, especially M0nster, they seem to me to be no effort votes. However concluding I'm scum from that is a bit of a stretch, no?
I mean by all means analyze the hell out of those votes, but if I were mafia my team would be voting for me at the last minute, and only after I saw their post listing "10 reasons why GM is a good mayor", certainly not these throw away votes.
Either way, please by all means analyze both my posts and the people voting for me, if nothing else you should realize I am playing to my usual town standards
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EPT
