[G] PvP 1-gas 2-gate robo opening - Page 13
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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SaJa
France84 Posts
This build, just like adelscott's one, won't be effective once popular. | ||
Turnus
United States86 Posts
On March 12 2011 10:03 SaJa wrote: There is not. If he brings more zealots than stalkers you will just lose with this build, that's why you're chronoboosting your first stalker to hide your fast robo tech. This build, just like adelscott's one, won't be effective once popular. Yeah, but who is bringing more zealots than stalkers for their initial 4gate push / warp-in? Again, this build is dependent on the opponent doing some variant of the currently popular 4gate technique. Scouting is key, and transitioning out of this initial build is easy imo. | ||
Azulock
United Kingdom58 Posts
Just wondering, I seemed to get rolled if they transition stargate - any advice? | ||
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On March 12 2011 10:03 SaJa wrote: There is not. If he brings more zealots than stalkers you will just lose with this build, that's why you're chronoboosting your first stalker to hide your fast robo tech. This build, just like adelscott's one, won't be effective once popular. A 4 gate will not have alot more units when they make zealots instead of stalkers. If they attack you with 6 zealots and 1 stalker instead of 6 stalkers 1 zealot it only makes it easier to stop imo. You'll have 5 zealots 1 stalker and 1 immortal on the way and stalling against zealots is actually alot easier. Either way a 12 gate into 4 gate will always have 2 stalkers really because that's what they make before they finish warpgate. If they don't make the 2nd stalker their push will be later because a zealot is slower. Also zealots are much easier to funnel at your ramp so you can actually use that as well to your advantage.. Mass zealot attacks are only worrysome when they come from a 10 gate. 10 gates are easy to scout though and should always be countered by a normal 4 gate which demolishes 10 gates... | ||
Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On March 13 2011 07:31 Markwerf wrote: A 4 gate will not have alot more units when they make zealots instead of stalkers. If they attack you with 6 zealots and 1 stalker instead of 6 stalkers 1 zealot it only makes it easier to stop imo. You'll have 5 zealots 1 stalker and 1 immortal on the way and stalling against zealots is actually alot easier. Either way a 12 gate into 4 gate will always have 2 stalkers really because that's what they make before they finish warpgate. If they don't make the 2nd stalker their push will be later because a zealot is slower. Also zealots are much easier to funnel at your ramp so you can actually use that as well to your advantage.. Mass zealot attacks are only worrysome when they come from a 10 gate. 10 gates are easy to scout though and should always be countered by a normal 4 gate which demolishes 10 gates... You win the first fight but lose the next. You need to add more gateways asap if you see him mass zealot as a result of seing your robo. Immortal DPS to Zealot isn't great for their cost and when he is warping Zealots from 4 gateways whilst you only have 2 with Immortals coming out every 40seconds, it isn't long before you get overwhelmed | ||
iChau
United States1210 Posts
On March 17 2011 10:35 Dommk wrote: You win the first fight but lose the next. You need to add more gateways asap if you see him mass zealot as a result of seing your robo. Immortal DPS to Zealot isn't great for their cost and when he is warping Zealots from 4 gateways whilst you only have 2 with Immortals coming out every 40seconds, it isn't long before you get overwhelmed After the the first 2 warp-ins (4 stalkers, 4 zealots), they won't be able to sustain production anymore due to not having any mineral banks (such as saving up for the 4 stalkers during warp gate research). It'll be like 1-2 zealots every while . This means that you can constantly warp in zealots and use 3-5 probes to fight with your immortals while he really can't do anything. It's worth it because remember, the 4 gate is an all-in, so it doesn't matter if you lose a couple of probes as long as you maintained decent probe production (except slight cuts for immortals). | ||
JethroTV
United States206 Posts
Only question is when should the additional gate be added? If the opponent is a 4gating, but seems to be a little late in doing so, should more units be added, or the additional gate? | ||
bankai
362 Posts
On February 09 2011 04:48 camster91 wrote: I have been doing a 2-Gate Robo build PvP recently and is working well for me. Instead of 1 gas though I get second gas at 20 and chrono 1 Zealot, 1 Stalker and 2 Sentrys out of my first gate I make my second gate in time for Warp Gate tech. I get my robo ASAP and chrono Immortals until I push out. If they are 4-Gating I can get 3 Sentrys some gateway units and an Immortal in time. From there I will endlessly FF my ramp until they back off. If they contain me I go for Colossus tech. This works well because it I get 3 Immortals fast and can usually do a lot of damage if they expanded. 2500+ Diamond Would you mind sharing your BO for this including the times you CB gateways/WG research/nexus?? | ||
Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On March 17 2011 10:57 iChau wrote: After the the first 2 warp-ins (4 stalkers, 4 zealots), they won't be able to sustain production anymore due to not having any mineral banks (such as saving up for the 4 stalkers during warp gate research). It'll be like 1-2 zealots every while . This means that you can constantly warp in zealots and use 3-5 probes to fight with your immortals while he really can't do anything. It's worth it because remember, the 4 gate is an all-in, so it doesn't matter if you lose a couple of probes as long as you maintained decent probe production (except slight cuts for immortals). Was just testing it out, providing you are losing units and not needing to build pylons. If you have 0 money when your warpgates have just started their cooldown, you can warpin 3 Zealots with your 4th being around 5seconds delayed. So yes, you can sustain constant warpins from 4gates, the 5seconds will keep building up and up, but you will have 3 gates worth of sustained warpins, even a sentry if you have the spare minerals. The way 4gate tends to work with its micro battles, most people miss their cooldowns a bit anyway, so I'm fairly sure in a normal game you could constantly keep warpining in Zealots and eventually just overwhelm But I guess it can come down to whoever gets the momentum early on, as long as the immortals don't die | ||
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On March 17 2011 18:54 Dommk wrote: Was just testing it out, providing you are losing units and not needing to build pylons. If you have 0 money when your warpgates have just started their cooldown, you can warpin 3 Zealots with your 4th being around 5seconds delayed. So yes, you can sustain constant warpins from 4gates, the 5seconds will keep building up and up, but you will have 3 gates worth of sustained warpins, even a sentry if you have the spare minerals. The way 4gate tends to work with its micro battles, most people miss their cooldowns a bit anyway, so I'm fairly sure in a normal game you could constantly keep warpining in Zealots and eventually just overwhelm But I guess it can come down to whoever gets the momentum early on, as long as the immortals don't die The thing is immortals aren't any worse against zealots then stalkers are numbers wise. They only lack the mobility of stalkers so they can't kite as effectively. If you are fighting in a choke zealot + immortal WILL beat pure zealots though. The problem I have found though is choosing where to fight with this strat. Usually you want to engage as far back as possible to buy time but sometimes like vs pure zealot you should be engaging at the ramp. One problematic thing I encountered with this build is when people bring a probe along with their attack to warp in a pylon behind your mineral line during the attack. Because you only have 1 stalker with this strat you can have a hard time taking care of a pylon while also keeping off their stalkers from killing crucial pylons. If the pylon then finishes they can simply warp in 4 zealots into your mineral line and you can be in quite some trouble :< | ||
kcdc
United States2311 Posts
I consider this to be an anti-robo build that's safe against 4 gates (assuming you respond to scouting information) because it gives you immortals, which when combined with a warp prism, are awesome against colossi. It's okay against blink openings, and it's bad against stargate openings. | ||
bankai
362 Posts
On March 18 2011 01:12 kcdc wrote: After a lot more testing, I don't think this build stops a 100% perfect 4 gate where they warp in their first round at your ramp. With only 1 stalker, you don't have the map control to prevent a proxy pylon at your ramp, so if your scout probe sees an idle nexus, no third pylon and 70+ saved chrono energy, I'd recommend going defensive 4 gate. Of course, the only 4 gates that this build can't stop are 100% scoutable and give you sufficient time to respond. I consider this to be an anti-robo build that's safe against 4 gates (assuming you respond to scouting information) because it gives you immortals, which when combined with a warp prism, are awesome against colossi. It's okay against blink openings, and it's bad against stargate openings. Bit confused here, so are you saying the build in the OP no longer works against a 'perfect' 4 gate? If so, how does a defensive 4 gate work (sorry i never seen it before)? | ||
ManaDuVortes
United States3 Posts
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bankai
362 Posts
On March 18 2011 12:25 ManaDuVortes wrote: The new 4gate is what used to be known as the "korean 4gate" where there is a proxy pylon by your ramp so the reinforcements can be warped directly into your base. To defensively 4gate, you need to have enough stalkers and sentries early to force field your ramp and kill proxy pylons. Ohhh...so we are saying kcdc's build here doesnt work against korean 4gate then?? OK makes sense re: defensive 4gate. Is there a BO for this that affords enough gas for the sentries/stalkers?? | ||
prock
Canada17 Posts
Tyvm kcdc! | ||
MatiNO
Australia327 Posts
On March 18 2011 12:52 bankai wrote: Ohhh...so we are saying kcdc's build here doesnt work against korean 4gate then?? OK makes sense re: defensive 4gate. Is there a BO for this that affords enough gas for the sentries/stalkers?? no hes saying this gate robo build doesnt't work against a perfect 4 warpgate rush where they warp on ramp, not korean 4 gate.. obviously if you scout korean 4gate you wont go gate robo lol. | ||
iChau
United States1210 Posts
On March 18 2011 12:25 ManaDuVortes wrote: The new 4gate is what used to be known as the "korean 4gate" where there is a proxy pylon by your ramp so the reinforcements can be warped directly into your base. To defensively 4gate, you need to have enough stalkers and sentries early to force field your ramp and kill proxy pylons. No, it's just the standard 12 gate 4 gate all-in with pylons warping on the ramp. | ||
ribboo
Sweden1842 Posts
On March 18 2011 13:06 prock wrote: Perfect 4gate may be perfect, but this build has saved PvP for lowly silvery me (refusing to 4gate in the interest of learning PvP macro) and has given me a ridiculous win record against all races since I started using it. I'm playing/beating gold every time now and feel confident this and good macro will take me to gold (plat?) before I need to start caring about my build order again. 4 gate would get me there too, but at least now I can do it with some practice with tier 2+ units. Tyvm kcdc! There's no point in not learning the 4gate. Even at master-level, 95% of my games are 4-gate vs 4-gate openings, that either leads to a fast win or we transition into the coin-flip blink/robo/stargate. | ||
Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On February 09 2011 04:48 camster91 wrote: I have been doing a 2-Gate Robo build PvP recently and is working well for me. Instead of 1 gas though I get second gas at 20 and chrono 1 Zealot, 1 Stalker and 2 Sentrys out of my first gate I make my second gate in time for Warp Gate tech. I get my robo ASAP and chrono Immortals until I push out. If they are 4-Gating I can get 3 Sentrys some gateway units and an Immortal in time. From there I will endlessly FF my ramp until they back off. If they contain me I go for Colossus tech. This works well because it I get 3 Immortals fast and can usually do a lot of damage if they expanded. 2500+ Diamond has anyone tried warping up your ramp yet? | ||
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