EPT[G] PvP 1-gas 2-gate robo opening - Page 12
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On February 28 2011 07:46 Logros wrote: Do you have any tips on holding off the 2 colossus all-in when expanding? I've been running this build and seeing alot of 2-3 gate robo's. I usually expand after the first immortal when I see it's no 4 gate and try to get colossus up asap but I just get steamrolled by the all-in. I usually have a similar sized army but only 1 colossus with the 2nd on the way. It really depends on the type of colossus timing push and what map you are on (rush distance matters a lot for expo vs timing push). Do they have range? etc. | ||
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xiaofan
United States513 Posts
[url blocked] | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On February 28 2011 07:46 Logros wrote: Do you have any tips on holding off the 2 colossus all-in when expanding? I've been running this build and seeing alot of 2-3 gate robo's. I usually expand after the first immortal when I see it's no 4 gate and try to get colossus up asap but I just get steamrolled by the all-in. I usually have a similar sized army but only 1 colossus with the 2nd on the way. Yeah, I get rolled by 2 colossus all-in if I expo and tech support bay too. Against 1 base colossus, I don't add tech past gateway + immortal and I just defend the push with 4 gates + immortals in a warp prism to drop on the colo. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On February 28 2011 14:19 kcdc wrote: Yeah, I get rolled by 2 colossus all-in if I expo and tech support bay too. Against 1 base colossus, I don't add tech past gateway + immortal and I just defend the push with 4 gates + immortals in a warp prism to drop on the colo. Ah thanks I'm gonna have to try that  . | ||
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
On February 28 2011 14:10 xiaofan wrote: I just played kcdc on ladder where he went this build. I went 4gate off 10 gate and he held it off easily. Very strong build!!! [url blocked] Aren't you supposed to warp in pylons in his base and just use zealots with a 10 gate? (korean style) I'm still looking for a replay with the proper response to that. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 28 2011 14:10 xiaofan wrote: I just played kcdc on ladder where he went this build. I went 4gate off 10 gate and he held it off easily. Very strong build!!! [url blocked] I think if you backed out after running up the ramp and waited for your next round of units to re-engage, you would have won. I don't like this build because of that, if the 4gater just stays back and accumulates another 2+ rounds, it kind of gets over whelming, I much prefer the 2 gate 3stalker opening | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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SaJa
France84 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-194360.jpg) | ||
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shenzu88
48 Posts
I'm finding difficulty with this build against Korean 4-Gate on these new, larger maps, if I'm unlucky and scout the last base, most of the time it's GG for me. Or rather I need more practice against K4G.. I like following up, after a 4-gate or I know he's one basing colossus, by making two immortals and do a prism harass at their mineral line with two zealots. Usually causes a big reaction by the other player and I can usually exploit them at this time. Two immortals really pound down on colossus if you hit when they have 1 to 2 colossus. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On March 09 2011 03:38 shenzu88 wrote: Been using this build quite a lot on ladder and I really enjoy it KCDC. I'm finding difficulty with this build against Korean 4-Gate on these new, larger maps, if I'm unlucky and scout the last base, most of the time it's GG for me. Glad you like the build. Don't use it against K4G tho. I'm not sure what about this build would give you more problems against K4G than your regular build would. I'm guessing it's the 13 gate and the later scout. I'm still able to fend off K4G by responding when my probe gets to their base for the most part, but if it's causing you a lot of extra losses, you can adjust my BO to pylon scout and/or make your gateway on 12, tho it will very slightly slow the critical timing where you have 5 zealots, a stalker and an immortal. The key concepts with this build are getting a stalker to deny scouting, and getting an immortal and a good zealot count fast enough to defend 4 gate. With regard to scout timings and cheese defense, play it the way you feel most comfortable. | ||
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shenzu88
48 Posts
On March 09 2011 03:54 kcdc wrote: Glad you like the build. Don't use it against K4G tho. I'm not sure what about this build would give you more problems against K4G than your regular build would. I'm guessing it's the 13 gate and the later scout. I'm still able to fend off K4G by responding when my probe gets to their base for the most part, but if it's causing you a lot of extra losses, you can adjust my BO to pylon scout and/or make your gateway on 12, tho it will very slightly slow the critical timing where you have 5 zealots, a stalker and an immortal. The key concepts with this build are getting a stalker to deny scouting, and getting an immortal and a good zealot count fast enough to defend 4 gate. With regard to scout timings and cheese defense, play it the way you feel most comfortable. Indeed it's the later scout. I have already adjusted the build to allow an earlier scout, around 11 food. Everything else is great with this build. But for every K4G opponent I get 15 normal games so all is well. | ||
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Strivers
United States358 Posts
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Tiegrr
United States607 Posts
On March 09 2011 15:59 Strivers wrote: So whats the adjustment if you scout K4G? Sentries, and a quick prayer to God. | ||
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Snoogle
Canada71 Posts
On March 09 2011 15:59 Strivers wrote: So whats the adjustment if you scout K4G? Not go robo I'd assume. K4G(zealot all-in), has the obvious tell of there being nothing in the opponents base to stop your probe from scouting the zero probes on gas. You should be able to spot it and get out a few stalkers to deal with the zealots. | ||
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Aui_2000
Canada435 Posts
What? how would sentries help @tiegrr: K4G is off a 10 gate with gas guys pulled off. Thats easily scouted with a 13 scout and adaptations can be made from there. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148539-1v1-protoss-gutterhulk Holding against tech with only 1 gas for a while, later destroying his army with simply mass zealots (with some stalkers) and immortals flanking the colossi. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148541-1v1-protoss-xelnaga-caverns Enjoy. Oh, and my execution of the build was not optimal. And another note is that you will ALWAYS need that 2nd immortal, and probably the 3rd if you can't micro well, against the 4 gate all-in. | ||
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Turnus
United States86 Posts
My difference is that when the 4 gate is stopped, I immediately take a second gas and rush to a 2 colossus push, which usually wins me the game. I think the transition possibilities with this build as soon as the push is held off are almost limitless if you can get that second gas up quick. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On March 12 2011 07:51 Turnus wrote: I've been using this build recently without a rigid structure, just making sure to have 4ish zealots, 1 stalker, and 1 immo before the hurt comes, and I win the rush. My difference is that when the 4 gate is stopped, I immediately take a second gas and rush to a 2 colossus push, which usually wins me the game. I think the transition possibilities with this build as soon as the push is held off are almost limitless if you can get that second gas up quick. I do this as well. I make the build slightly slower, if it's safe, to add in a few more probes and a 2nd gas. With that it becomes much better against anything non 4 gate. For example in the current version this build is a near autoloss imo against a phoenix opening because you'll be having only 1 stalker and hardly any gas to quickly make more, with a quicker 2nd gas and more probes that becomes much easier to handle. Also unlike doing gimmicky immortal drops or whatever, which in my experience just fail against a 2 non-range colo push with stalker warpin, I just prefer to win the colo war. If you scout well you should actually be ahead in gas against many 2 gas builds as you won't have to waste gas on a sentry. The trick is offcourse knowing when a 4 gate is coming and how much exactly you have to cut to survive. I basically use 3 things for this: - their cyber timing and use of chronoboosts. If it's as slow as your 13 gate and they use 3 boosts on nexus you can get a few more probes. If they 12 gate you usually need to cut after 22 probes. - the map. Some maps it's easier to keep their proxy pylons further back while on others this is very hard. Bigger maps usually mean you can get a few more probes. - your scouting probe. A good move is usually to poke back into their base about 20 seconds after their stalker finished. Often they have moved out with their stalker and you can get in to see what they are up to at the cost of your probe, if they aren't 4 gating immediately get 2nd gas and continue probes. | ||
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