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On March 10 2011 05:53 Erucious wrote:
To all the people saying "she should unlearn that singaporean accent", you are seriously ignorant.
Ive grown up bilingual (dutch and norwegian) and have no accent in either of these languages because of that. I have dutch friends in norway who have thick accents, as well as my mother and my father (father with a thick dutch accent when he speaks norwegian, and mother vice versa). Theyve spoken "eachothers language" for 15yrs+ and still there is an accent... You cannot unlearn an accent just like that...
For example: Arnold Schwarzenegger has a thick austrian accent - and yet hes played in movies and lived in the US for years.
Either way, her english was perfectly understandable, and english is my 3rd language - seeing canadians and americans complain that they can't understand her says more about your non-experience dealing with non-americans/canadians than her "bad english".
I grew up between Hong Kong and Australia.. I speak English with Canadian accent (international school in Hong Kong, loads of Chinese Canadian kids, sigh) and I turn it to an Australian accent whenever I step off the plane in Sydney and I get caught out every few months here ie. "HEY SAY TAHT AGAIN YOU JUST SOUDNED CANADIAN WTF". I speak Cantonese without accent, I speak Mandarin with a Beijing accent with no Cantonese tints that I can twist into a Taiwanese accent and I've been told my dictated French is Parisian with no English tints by French people (speaking it naturally I am extremely gramatically limited cos I can't think on my feet, so lets not even consider accents there). It all just depends on the individual and how good they are at hiding their accents, your exposure to different forms of accents and how willing you are to practise each type. I'm sure Kelly can lose her accent in 3 or 4 months, and why shouldn't she make a little effort for the majority of users? She knows her language gramaticlaly nearly perfect... Why can't she make the effort to pronounce Heavy correctly? It's not Hay-Vee, it's Heh-Vee. 3's not Tree, it's Tha-Ree.
Heath Ledger hid his accent in Dark Knight, but you never saw Sam Worthington do that in Avatar. Now you can ask yourself - who's the better actor? And comparatively, what makes a good commentator?
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I just don't think she was the best choice, considering all the candidates, for the job. Her accent was thick and sometimes very hard to understand, and her game knowledge was not anything to really brag about. She kinda feel into that gray area of not being qualified to be an analyst (artosis) and also not considered entertaining/funny (tasteless). She was an ok analyst and kinda entertaining. Of course these are my opinions and nothing more. GL Kelly!
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GOM is trying to acquire the BEST casters possible. At the end of the day GOM makes the decisions and decided Kelly was not the best candidate for the job. Get over it and quit defending her over a matter that has already been dealt with.
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i wish you'd all stop arguing about her accent..
i think most people who don't want her casting code-a take more issues with her voice/game sense/what have you than the accent
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I think this is fair. She gets her chance to try it out, people get the chance to judge her casting quality.
The biggest problem for me about Kelly is that her casting doesn't make the game more entertaining. She's not a funny caster and she talks too fast when the game heats up, which makes it more difficult to listen.
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Calgary25954 Posts
On March 10 2011 06:07 JWD wrote:Man I wish everyone would just be quiet about accents already  Everything there is to be said about them has already been said fifty times at TL and probably another 50 on GOM's forums. There's other aspects of this news / GOM casters in general that are so much more interesting and worthwhile to discuss.
Okay let's talk about something else:
On March 10 2011 05:36 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 05:34 Chill wrote:On March 10 2011 05:28 JWD wrote:On March 10 2011 05:26 Chill wrote:
Okay, so my new theory is:
1. GOM selected DoA and Moletrap to be casters.
2. They couldn't make it immediately because of real life; Kelly could.
3. They hired Kelly immediately, made up this story about trials.
4. Moletrap scheduled to come, they said trial over.
Maybe not true, but at least I can justify the logic in my head as opposed to the current things GOM are saying. You don't think they hired Kelly indefinitely, but backed off and brought Moletrap in once the community blew up over it? And are now using the bit about trial casters to make Kelly's departure look better for both GOM and Kelly? It's certainly possible and does make more sense. I'm modifying the theory! GOM Evil Theory rev. 2.1:1. GOM puts out a call for casters and reviews all applicants 2. GOM focuses on availability moreso than ability. 3. Kelly is the most available and is hired immediately and openly. 4. DoA is also hired but requires a month due to real life. 5. Kelly has largely negative feedback. 6. GOM announces the "trial" and contacts Moletrap. 7. Moletrap announces he will go to Korea. 8. The trial period ends. What do you think? BTW I've been playing a lot of Phoenix Wright hahaha. Yep, I like that theory very much. It's the simplest one that explains everything I know about the situation (is consistent with the statements from GOM and Kelly I've read).
OBJECTION!
From: ------ [ --- posts | Profile | Buddy | User Info | Report ]
Subject: Code A Casters
Date: 3/10/11 05:44
How can you say case closed, albeit I hope jokingly, if even before she was ever publicly known as the caster, she had set up that she would only be there for a few weeks. The crazy theory seems to be more fun because it fits in a nice little circle but from day negative 10 she's told a few people that she'd only be there for a few weeks, since she also has a job and family in singapore.
To: ------ [ Profile | Buddy | User Info | Report ]
Subject: Re: Code A Casters
Date: 3/10/11 05:57
Link to her saying that.
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Original Message From ------:
How can you say case closed, albeit I hope jokingly, if even before she was ever publicly known as the caster, she had set up that she would only be there for a few weeks. The crazy theory seems to be more fun because it fits in a nice little circle but from day negative 10 she's told a few people that she'd only be there for a few weeks, since she also has a job and family in singapore.
To: ------ [ Profile | Buddy | User Info | Report ]
Subject: Re: Code A Casters
Date: 3/10/11 06:05
Are you here? Clearly you should have evidence before raising an objection!
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Original Message From ------::
How can you say case closed, albeit I hope jokingly, if even before she was ever publicly known as the caster, she had set up that she would only be there for a few weeks. The crazy theory seems to be more fun because it fits in a nice little circle but from day negative 10 she's told a few people that she'd only be there for a few weeks, since she also has a job and family in singapore.
OVERRULED!
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sad day for her fans in the Global Casting League.
kelly's unconventional use of southeast asian playstyle took her deep into the tournament, but ro4 was where she was quickly eliminated by doa's slick, mechanical monotone delivery style and news of a serious contender by the name of moletrap currently working his way through qualifiers for next season.
a return seems unlikely, as her detractors within the community remain firm on their 'lolol tits or gtfo' stance.
in other news, people will remain to care more about casters that talk about the game than the actual game of starcraft itself.
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With all due respect to kelly. She was simply not the person for the job. I wish her the best of luck but she is just not a good caster. The new caster seems a lot more promising. He has the voice of a caster.
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This is no surprise. They already said they would rotate out casters, and on top of that a lot of people were not happy with her casting so... yeah. No surprise. I hope things work out for her though.
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On March 10 2011 05:57 SpiffD wrote:
Wow, I can't believe how many native English speakers can be so arrogant about this issue. It isn't good enough for you that the rest of the world is learning your language, they also have to have the "correct" accent?
People even in this country have accents. I highly doubt "they can't understand the accent" that's likely more out of xenophobia than reduced brain capacity. Go ahead, call one of these people a dumbass in a Russian or Asian accent and see if they understand. They will.
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just wanna point out to ppl saying you cant "fix" an accent: you're WRONG. there're coaches, you take classes, to improve your accent, the way you say stuff, so more ppl will understand you.
and to the guy that compared that TUF fighter with subtitles: the guy was a fighter, not a caster. His job did not depend on how ppl could understand him.
its GLOBAL starcraft league guys. the more ppl can understand from the casters, the better. dont put the burden on the ppl that had trouble understanding kelly, which according to the poll on that 1st thread, were like ~80%.
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On March 10 2011 06:07 JWD wrote:Man I wish everyone would just be quiet about accents already Everything there is to be said about them has already been said fifty times at TL and probably another 50 on GOM's forums. There's other aspects of this news / GOM casters in general that are so much more interesting and worthwhile to discuss.
Most people are bound to say the first thing on their mind. That's just how they are.
You like to think about these things, look at the from a removed view, and contemplate them. I like that also. Unfortunately, the majority of people do not. I would love a forum (edit for people like that.
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On March 10 2011 05:59 [Executor] wrote:
I wanna say sry Kelly, but most of the comunity arent a bunch of haters...
You did great!
There were indeed some stupid haters and trolls, but not everybody who disliked her casting was a hater. Actually I believe most people that found her to be unsuitable didnt even write anything.
I really didnt like her casting, mostly because she was just not speaking very clearly. And that was not only her accent.Her game knowledge and wit was also not as good as it should be for a GOM caster. But I did never complain on the forums, I just didnt watch code A anymore or muted it.
Ok maybe one can say that I am now complaining, but I am only writing this to make clear that the criticism was not just about trolling, but that there were real and legitimate concerns.
GOM are the only ones to fault for bringing her in this stupid situation. I was extremely puzzled by GOMs decision to hire her back then. It was a really strange and frankly just bad.
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On March 10 2011 05:57 SpiffD wrote:
Wow, I can't believe how many native English speakers can be so arrogant about this issue. It isn't good enough for you that the rest of the world is learning your language, they also have to have the "correct" accent?
Are you serious? You're really holding it against English speakers that the world is structured in such a way that people learn English for casting/business etc.? You're such a prick. It is not my decision to have GOM stream in English. I would watch if it was Korean only. Given that they are streaming in English, why the hell is it unreasonable to request a caster that can actually speak english fluently?
Even if someone has a deep understanding of the game, they can't be a good caster if they are unable to articulate their thoughts in the language that they have to cast. When there are so many good casters willing to do the job, how are you going to say it is unreasonable for fans to request that the most qualified person gets the job?
I think your anti-English speaking bias is disgusting and offensive. There are many accents in the English language (British, Canadian, Australian, and a variety of different American variations)... what accent the caster speaks in is completely irrelevant. The point is that if they know the language well then they will be able to effectively communicate everything they need to. Sorry to say but it is glaringly obvious that Kelly is not capable of this. I don't doubt that she understands the game quite well - she just can't communicate her understanding effectively.
How many times you hear her say "You do see that terran is expanding", or "Actually, xxxxx".
I implore you to look at casters/commentators of ANY sport, regardless of accent or language. Are any of them incapable of communicating their understanding of the sport/game in question because of a language barrier? I didn't think so. Thats the point - its not about some arrogant "english-speaking" decision to hate on anyone that speaks with a different accent.
*edit* btw I'm not a native English speaker.
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I think all the degrading comments were way out of line, but I also think that she was not suited for commentating the worlds biggest StarCraft league. It should be okay to say that.
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On March 10 2011 04:48 rysecake wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 04:46 CrazyCow wrote:
Now I can stop watching Code A on mute. You're an asshole. People like you made her leave/get fired (whatever happened). This community has been absolute garbage to her. I honestly feel sorry for Kelly.
Actually we just gave our opinions. What is unfortunate for her is that there was a lot of us. As in any democracy the will of the majority decided the outcome. So good luck in life Kelly but I really hope we do not see you again in GSL.
Next season I can now buy the premium ticket.
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On March 10 2011 06:14 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 06:07 JWD wrote:Man I wish everyone would just be quiet about accents already Everything there is to be said about them has already been said fifty times at TL and probably another 50 on GOM's forums. There's other aspects of this news / GOM casters in general that are so much more interesting and worthwhile to discuss. Most people are bound to say the first thing on their mind. That's just how they are. You like to think about these things, look at the from a removed view, and contemplate them. I like that also. Unfortunately, the majority of people do not. I would love a forum (edit for people like that.
If most people said the first thing on their minds, it'd be a lot more quiet around here.
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On March 10 2011 05:17 IPA wrote:
I had no problems with Kelly's accent -- I was somewhat happy with the diversification to be honest.
What has been bothering me about her and DoA is their inability to definitively call a battle that, from my eyes (and many of you I'm sure), seems fairly obvious. Just one example: game 2 of Leenock vs Losira, Losira does a one base roach/bane push. It was obviously going to succeed -- anyone with a mite of game sense knew the game was over as soon Losira absorbed all bane damage with roaches; however, DoA and Kelly claimed (paraphrasing) "Oh, Losira's attack is actually not that effective." ::3 seconds of silence:: "Oh, it turns out Losira's attack was very effective." This is just one example among several. Stuff like "I don't think he can hold this!!!" -- really, what tipped you off? The fact that 16 roaches are rolling unimpeded into the main? You don't "think" he can hold this? The game is over. Make a decisive call.
These kinds of slip-ups just chip away at viewer confidence. I like DoA, I think he has charisma and a good voice. I just hope these sorts of blunders are smoothed over in the future.
Best of luck to Kelly in her future endeavors. The people who found her "unintelligible" have bigger issues than starcraft.
I'll have to agree with this as well. To build on this point - It's completely fine if a caster is wrong. Artosis is wrong plenty of times, BUT he rolls with it VERY smoothly and seamlessly. Now I'm not saying you have to be as good as he, but make a decisive claim or analysis THEN allow it to unfold or not unfold. For example (GSL SPOILER) + Show Spoiler + during the nada vs july when a tech lab goes up, artosis says nada looks like he's going for a siege tank marine push timing he merely goes tout to his natural to expand. Artosis was wrong about the timing and it was just nada expo'ing and macro'ing
It's completely okay to be wrong. Another time was when nestea was on scrap station and had ONE roach to hold an impending 3 gate + star (i believe) and both Artosis and Tasteless said the game was over. They were both wrong and it actually added to the quality of the cast! It made the audience revel in disbelief. These things improve the quality of the game and keeps the audience at the edge of their seat. Being confident with your claims adds so much.
With that being said, the part of the audience that knows a good amount about the game will be able to detect when a claim is right, wrong, or possible. We are accepting of (obviously) right claims, and (less obviously) we are accepting of possible claims such as - Nestea is dead here (aforementioned game). If you can convince the audience your claim is possible, we are totally accepting. But half-hearted "I think" claims really hurt the quality.
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It doesn't seem like many people share my opinion, but I really enjoyed Kelly's casts. It was a nice change from the usual Tastosis and made things more lively. Her accent isn't as bad as everyone makes it seem. I can understand her better than a lot of Americans. I for one will be sad to see her go, and I hope she'll be back in the future.
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I liked Kelly's energy and her knowledge of the game seems better than DOA's, but it's too bad her command of the english language isn't good enough for the viewers. When you go to the gomtv chatroom it's nothing but complaining about kelly more than half the time and people saying they have it on mute. She did a better job then I thought she would but half the time I just blocked her out because sometimes it took effort to understand what she was talking about. Funny thing is I am use to this as my mom talks very similar lol.
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