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hahaha Jackal, I am so unvoting you
you are reaking of town right now
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United States22154 Posts
This calls for a radical rethinking of our plans... lets lynch RoL! 
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yeah unvote
i don't feel like i have shit to explain, either, deconduo
you want me to post that PM from you about your scummy idea?
I didn't think so
I could make a GREAT case on you right now, a very convincing one, but I'm not convinced yet myself. Call me a VI again, though, and that will change.
I apologize if you feel like I have hurt the integrity of your game, RoL, and I would replace out if you so desire.
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On February 25 2011 04:13 gryffindor wrote:
yeah unvote
i don't feel like i have shit to explain, either, deconduo
you want me to post that PM from you about your scummy idea?
I didn't think so
I could make a GREAT case on you right now, a very convincing one, but I'm not convinced yet myself. Call me a VI again, though, and that will change.
I apologize if you feel like I have hurt the integrity of your game, RoL, and I would replace out if you so desire.
Sure, post away. Unlike Jackal I have no problems with what I posted in PMs being quoted and shown in the thread if the person posting them has a legitimate reason.
If you think genuinely think one of my ideas is scummy (and I really don't know what you are talking about) or that I am scummy then go ahead and build a case. I will gladly respond to whatever you say you have.
Or you know, go ahead and continue to drop subtle passive aggressive hints. 'I could get you lynched if you bother me, so back off' I find blackmail pretty scummy, what about you?
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It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you.
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On February 25 2011 03:25 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 03:08 LSB wrote:On February 24 2011 19:39 Jackal58 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 24 2011 18:33 Barundar wrote:Morning all, as promised I’ve read up and here is my contribution. As a fair warning it’s a wall of text, first is my general comments on the thread so far, last is my analysis. First off, goddammit GMarshal, leaking my top suspect. Can’t you hold it in for 1 night? I wanted to see if he would actually post in the evening as he promised, but the weak FoS gave him a chance to defend himself before I got around to post. Well, at least it proved that Jackal58 has great reaction time, despite not talking much. My thoughts on the thread so far: GMarshals plan is a lot like what RoL has recommended for PM’s, pick out some random people from the list and start talking to them. While you can’t trust them, you get more to analyse, and it’s easier to catch a mafia slipping up if you have more opinions from them. Just be careful with experienced players, and treat your partners like they are scum. If I was on a scumteam, I would tell my inexperienced teammates to stay out of PM land. Gryffindor proposes a really silly (in lack of a better word) plan, there is no way of finding guaranteed innocents with GF and framer around, and even if one such could be found, all mafia has to do is gain his trust and make him spill, =dead blues. The only benefit of mass claim to a confirmed townie is the coordination of medic protection and DT checks. It won’t magicly find mafia amongst the non claimers, or identify fake claims. What gryffindor does do is post a lot, he promotes activity, and he is actually scumhunting. I don’t give much for his lists, but so far his impact has been positive on the town, as long as people don’t stop thinking for themselves. Regarding annul, you should keep in mind that he opposed GMarshals plan before he (allegedly) got his role PM. Hence I would be very careful with lynching him just for opposing that alone. Other than that agree with Foolishness’ comment, it would be funny if LSB got revenge on annul. Why has a decent case on icemac, but not certain if icemac is aggressive townie or mafia. Analysis of Jackal58Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 00:47 Jackal58 wrote:
Good day fellow scum hunters. Sorry for the late start but I bowl on Tuesday night.
There are quite a few people in this game that I have never seen before so it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around everything everybody has said so far.
My thoughts on cells:
Thoroughly undecided. If their only reason for being is analysis keep it in the thread.
I'm at work right now so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like, but I'll be in here this evening.
gryffindor why on earth would you claim vet? I did it in XXXVI to avoid being lynched but man that was pointless. You're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
This post is COMPLETELY out of the ordinary for Jackal. Jackal’s playstyle as town consist of independent opinions, with a tendency to tunnel. His posting style is stubborn and humorous. He rarely posts long posts, and in general just give short statements, but often posts a lot. When he finds scum, he will make it clear for everyone, state his reasons, and keep up pressure on the person. Being stubborn he is very difficult to convince otherwise, once he has found his target(s). In the above post he differs from his usual play as town in a number of ways. Show nested quote +… so it's going to take me a bit to wrap my head around everything everybody has said so far. First of all he gives multiple excuses as to his posting straight away. This is unlike his other games, even in his first game in mafia xxxv he didn’t feel the need to excuse his inexperience without being called out for it. As I said above, Jackal is an independent player, he doesn’t care much if people accuse him, town yells at him or if the things he sais comes off in the wrong way. Him apologising like this upfront, without anyone even calling him out is unusual. If you a read Ver’s guide to improving at mafia, it’s not natural for a green mindset to apologise and appear useless, since it will make other players pay less attention to what they have to say. It is however entirely within the mindset of a mafia, who just want to make a post noone cares about, and let the town fight with itself instead. He apologies for posting less, but in normal games his many first posts are just one liners, this one is a lengthy one for him. By sheer size it should be an improvement for him, but what does it really contain? Show nested quote + My thoughts on cells:
Thoroughly undecided. If their only reason for being is analysis keep it in the thread. His thoughts are thoroughly undecided. Why even comment then? If this is the reason he felt the need to add to the conversation, then I sincerely expected more. Jackal as town has very strong opinions, and this is just neutral mentioning – he doesn’t improve the plan, he just questions it. Posting without contributing. Show nested quote + gryffindor why on earth would you claim vet? I did it in XXXVI to avoid being lynched but man that was pointless. You're making the hair on the back of my neck stand up. A weak FoS with a relevant question. On one hand it is sort of an opinion, on the other hand it has been posted before. In Guts and Glory he simply quoted Amber[light]’s post and commented “this post ems of scummyness”. Weak FoS isn’t typical Jackal, even if I wouldn’t rule it out. It’s not much to warrant a post like that from him though. Show nested quote + I'm at work right now so I might not be able to post as much as I'd like, but I'll be in here this evening. He promises to post more in the evening. I was holding this analysis back to see if he actually would. As I said in the beginning, this got ruined, but he didn’t post until he got mentioned, and it still proved his reaction time was good. Note that Jackal has been posting from work in his other games, and it hasn’t stopped him from being active. Other suspicious post: Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote:
I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him.
But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. Sharp reaction to getting PM’ed. Jackal had no problem PM’ing with me in mafia xxxv. ##Vote Jackal58 Actually my style is identical to every other game I've played. Not one of them has me aggressively tunneling anybody in the first day or two. I don't do that until I get a line on somebody. I'm going to have too agree with Jacakl here, Barundar you are reading too much in one post. Sure, it might be useful in RL mafia trying to pick off tells on how people are phrasing things, but in online mafia, it's a whole different game. For example, my first post was apologizing that I wouldn't be active, and I'm town. It's not like that apologizing is necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps I am reading too much into one post. But he isn't doing much to prove me wrong. He puts a nice OMGUS on me, states that I'm part of a scumteam, and then does nothing to scumhunt against me or point out why I would be mafia. He is acting inconsistent with his own scumlist. Problem isn't that he excused himself. Problem is he held an apologetic tone without contributing much. It makes his post suspecious, and I find it interesting that you don't think it is the least suspecious. Now he has shown some agression that can be hard to fake, and is quite typical for him. But he is by no means clear of suspecion just beceause he posts an OMGUS list.
I don't find him suspicions because that's how he plays. Jackel58 is known to post an OMGUS list with little/no explanation, but he is scary accurate on the scum. Look at Guts and Glory. Jackel didn't really do much in the game but name 4 people. Of the 4 people, 3 were scum.
If we are going to lynch Jackal, it can't just because of a "maybe" or a "tell". I want proof.
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OK, listen up guys, this is pitiful the amount of people voting, and the size of the wagons. We only have 5 people(soon to be six on one) on the major wagons, how are we going to properly analyze voting with all of these split votes and cases? We need to consolidate to see who swings late, and start building associative tells based around the flips. I know we will be able to do that through scumhunting, and I have been trying to do that as well, but wagon analysis is key to catching scum associatively.
Annul - 6
Gofarman
deconduo
Ser Aspi
LSB
astroorion
Gryffindor
Icemac - 5
why
kevonism
seraph
ICanFlyLow
OriginalName
People who need to pick one of the above, because their votes are on people with 2 or less:
coagulation
Jackal58
Barundar
Darmousseh
chaoser
Jbright
annul
If your name isn't here, I either missed you or you're not voting. I'm sorry, or you're sorry! 
We've got 7-8 hours, from my recollection. Let's do something about it. People on 1-2 person wagons need to get on either Icemac or Annul.
Vote: Annul
Reasoning: Bandwagonning, and LSB believing he is scum. I also like the wagon more, excluding astroorion who I feel will probably come off of it due to being Annul's scumbuddy.
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On February 25 2011 04:29 gryffindor wrote:
It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you.
You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is.
+ Show Spoiler +To gryffindor:One of the main parts of the cell idea is that no claims are made. -_- Its NOT a town circle, its an idea circle. This post describes it better than I can: Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 01:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The whole PM issue is one that has gone back and forth for awhile, some for some against. I think it comes down to not so much the hating of PM's but how they are used.
When the games first started circles were formed in them, but the pming also heavily relied on what I like to think of as an "idea circle" or anything on those lines.
People would get together, fully expecting 1 or more of the people they are talking to to be mafia. Rather than discussing role distribution, the group would talk about strategies that could be used, behavioural analyze as a group, clue analyze as a group. There was alot of information being shared, and due to the nature of the group everyone had to participate somehow. Eventually people may end up claiming, but the idea was more on finding reds than confirming town.
I am not sure where this whole stance of confirming town circles and just offing people came from (an active mafia team should easily destroy this unless game is horrrribly town favoured).
If pm's were used as they were in the past, or as the people I routinely pm'd in games did, I believe the skill level would rise.
I could be horribly wrong on this, but I just think the concept of how to use pm's got lost somewhere along the way. Show nested quote +Original Message From gryffindor: I was just really nervous. The reaction testing thing from me is null. I do that regardless of alignment. However, I have been posting lengthier posts, something I did not do in Orgah at all. I am for the Cell idea, actually, so long as claiming waits for confirmation. We don't need any unnecessary claiming. Original Message From deconduo: First off, I think cells are a good idea. I really don't understand how you think they could have any negative effect. Same with annul. Point I was trying to make was that when I wanted to do something to appear townish I handpicked the cell to my advantage. Thats why I was suspicious of GMarshal doing the same thing. You are posting a bit more, but the general style is the same. Lots of reaction testing and weird moves. I'm assuming you posted less in orgah to stay out of the spotlight as you were SK. Original Message From gryffindor: you setup pm circles as scum you like pm circles this game you are scum? that's what i'm getting from that as to how i'm acting this game vs that, i completely disagree with you Original Message From deconduo: Nothing much yet, just got to the thread. I like GMarshal's idea for cells and was going to suggest it myself. I don't like how he 'arranged' them though. If it helps, here is the one I set up from orgah: + Show Spoiler +To: Coagulation, GMarshal, Mr. Wiggles Town are in trouble in this game. It is rampant with inactivity and I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. As such, I'm proposing we form a PM circle in an attempt to collaborate and talk. I have chose you because I feel you are active without having done anything scummy. Darmousseh was meant to be part of the circle also, and in fact it was him that gave me the idea, but unfortunately he was modkilled for roleclaiming to me without realising it was against the rules. I'm not saying that I trust any of you, in fact I'm quite sure at least one of you is mafia or at least anti-town. However this is more about comparing ideas and talking, as suggested in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181300¤tpage=2#29Please let me know if you are interested. GeneralHankerchief http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/P2Q2Za9db76b5As for your alignment, you seem to be playing similar to orgah. What that means I don't know. Original Message From gryffindor:
do you have any reads so far?
what do you believe i am aligned?
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United States22154 Posts
Alright, lets do this then, to be honest I don't think icemac has given us enough to work with to really make a judgment on him, as the game progresses if he dosn't post more we will have to just hang him, but for now I want to give him a chance to talk. Annul i'm ambivalent about, I'm not sure if he is scum, but his lack of actual contribution makes me suspicious of him, so for now I'm going to vote Annul, I may switch my vote as more information arises
##Vote annul
come on people only a few hours left and we have to lynch someone, it may as well be someone who's death will provide us with key information
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On February 25 2011 04:33 gryffindor wrote:OK, listen up guys, this is pitiful the amount of people voting, and the size of the wagons. We only have 5 people(soon to be six on one) on the major wagons, how are we going to properly analyze voting with all of these split votes and cases? We need to consolidate to see who swings late, and start building associative tells based around the flips. I know we will be able to do that through scumhunting, and I have been trying to do that as well, but wagon analysis is key to catching scum associatively. Annul - 6 Gofarman deconduo Ser Aspi LSB astroorion Gryffindor Icemac - 5 why kevonism seraph ICanFlyLow OriginalName People who need to pick one of the above, because their votes are on people with 2 or less: coagulation Jackal58 Barundar Darmousseh chaoser Jbright annul If your name isn't here, I either missed you or you're not voting. I'm sorry, or you're sorry! We've got 7-8 hours, from my recollection. Let's do something about it. People on 1-2 person wagons need to get on either Icemac or Annul. Vote: Annul Reasoning: Bandwagonning, and LSB believing he is scum. I also like the wagon more, excluding astroorion who I feel will probably come off of it due to being Annul's scumbuddy.
At least we agree on who to lynch, annul has been nothing but scummy this entire game.
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On February 25 2011 04:33 gryffindor wrote:OK, listen up guys, this is pitiful the amount of people voting, and the size of the wagons. We only have 5 people(soon to be six on one) on the major wagons, how are we going to properly analyze voting with all of these split votes and cases? We need to consolidate to see who swings late, and start building associative tells based around the flips. I know we will be able to do that through scumhunting, and I have been trying to do that as well, but wagon analysis is key to catching scum associatively. Annul - 6 Gofarman deconduo Ser Aspi LSB astroorion Gryffindor Icemac - 5 why kevonism seraph ICanFlyLow OriginalName People who need to pick one of the above, because their votes are on people with 2 or less: coagulation Jackal58 Barundar Darmousseh chaoser Jbright annul If your name isn't here, I either missed you or you're not voting. I'm sorry, or you're sorry! We've got 7-8 hours, from my recollection. Let's do something about it. People on 1-2 person wagons need to get on either Icemac or Annul. Vote: Annul Reasoning: Bandwagonning, and LSB believing he is scum. I also like the wagon more, excluding astroorion who I feel will probably come off of it due to being Annul's scumbuddy.
Sorry dude. My votes staying on you. If you want you can ask CubeD what I'm like when I decide somebody deserves my vote.
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I just saw RoL's second post regarding you Gryff. I'll reconsider my vote.
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that makes no sense
i dont know why this wagon is rolling on iceman
we need to be voting for people that actually deserve it, such as people who bring in horrible ideas, like GM.
obviously when there is 1 minute left if the vote is still close i will have to revote to iceman, but i would really much rather this wagon be GM/chaos or, if it HAS to be me (why is this always the case regardless of my role?), then me and GM.
remember LSB just has a grudge against me. go read 35. ive called GM out for a bad idea and actually gave reasons, and i'm red... where 5 people have wagoned onto iceman for a much worse reason and face no heat? think about it
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i also would like to see the logic behind "i have been nothing but scummy all game"
what, specifically, have i done? i called out a bad idea and voted based on it. what else?
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look at gryffindor's reasoning conveniently posted in the voting thread and not the main thread:
"Reasoning: Bandwagonning, and LSB believing he is scum. I also like the wagon more, excluding astroorion who I feel will probably come off of it due to being Annul's scumbuddy."
1, bandwagoning. by whom? by you, you mean? because i am entirely certain that i began the wagons on chaoser and GM. called them out ridic early in the game and continued to question the cells idea logic all game. so... ?
2. this is a bad reason. LSB has a grudge against me (go read survivor too, occurring right now, to see that his entire game plan in every game is just to kill me). why are you so sure HE isnt red? why do you trust his belief so much? its a very curious reason.
3. you like the wagon more. okay, i guess i cannot argue with that per se, since the iceman wagon is dumb too -- though i know i am town, so they're [probably] both bad
4. i do not understand the astorian comment -- a. i am not red; b. what has he done to make you think that if i were red, he is also red? cuz i must be missing something there.
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I will be voting Icanflylow until a more suitable target can be brought up. As of now there is too much on either side of the fence to lynch one of gm/annul/chaoser/ice whereas icanflylow has posted once in the thread jumping on a bandwagon and not providing real input into the game. This vote may change depending on arguments brought forward, however 1 post to poorly justify ones vote on a bandwagon seems far to scum like to ignore at this moment.
If he has been active in pm's someone let me know so that my view of him may be changed, but as of right now he seems the least contributing member of the game.
##vote icanflylow
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On February 25 2011 04:36 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:29 gryffindor wrote:
It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you. You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is. + Show Spoiler +To gryffindor:One of the main parts of the cell idea is that no claims are made. -_- Its NOT a town circle, its an idea circle. This post describes it better than I can: Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 01:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The whole PM issue is one that has gone back and forth for awhile, some for some against. I think it comes down to not so much the hating of PM's but how they are used.
When the games first started circles were formed in them, but the pming also heavily relied on what I like to think of as an "idea circle" or anything on those lines.
People would get together, fully expecting 1 or more of the people they are talking to to be mafia. Rather than discussing role distribution, the group would talk about strategies that could be used, behavioural analyze as a group, clue analyze as a group. There was alot of information being shared, and due to the nature of the group everyone had to participate somehow. Eventually people may end up claiming, but the idea was more on finding reds than confirming town.
I am not sure where this whole stance of confirming town circles and just offing people came from (an active mafia team should easily destroy this unless game is horrrribly town favoured).
If pm's were used as they were in the past, or as the people I routinely pm'd in games did, I believe the skill level would rise.
I could be horribly wrong on this, but I just think the concept of how to use pm's got lost somewhere along the way. Show nested quote +Original Message From gryffindor: I was just really nervous. The reaction testing thing from me is null. I do that regardless of alignment. However, I have been posting lengthier posts, something I did not do in Orgah at all. I am for the Cell idea, actually, so long as claiming waits for confirmation. We don't need any unnecessary claiming. Original Message From deconduo: First off, I think cells are a good idea. I really don't understand how you think they could have any negative effect. Same with annul. Point I was trying to make was that when I wanted to do something to appear townish I handpicked the cell to my advantage. Thats why I was suspicious of GMarshal doing the same thing. You are posting a bit more, but the general style is the same. Lots of reaction testing and weird moves. I'm assuming you posted less in orgah to stay out of the spotlight as you were SK. Original Message From gryffindor: you setup pm circles as scum you like pm circles this game you are scum? that's what i'm getting from that as to how i'm acting this game vs that, i completely disagree with you Original Message From deconduo: Nothing much yet, just got to the thread. I like GMarshal's idea for cells and was going to suggest it myself. I don't like how he 'arranged' them though. If it helps, here is the one I set up from orgah: + Show Spoiler +To: Coagulation, GMarshal, Mr. Wiggles Town are in trouble in this game. It is rampant with inactivity and I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. As such, I'm proposing we form a PM circle in an attempt to collaborate and talk. I have chose you because I feel you are active without having done anything scummy. Darmousseh was meant to be part of the circle also, and in fact it was him that gave me the idea, but unfortunately he was modkilled for roleclaiming to me without realising it was against the rules. I'm not saying that I trust any of you, in fact I'm quite sure at least one of you is mafia or at least anti-town. However this is more about comparing ideas and talking, as suggested in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181300¤tpage=2#29Please let me know if you are interested. GeneralHankerchief http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/P2Q2Za9db76b5As for your alignment, you seem to be playing similar to orgah. What that means I don't know. Original Message From gryffindor:
do you have any reads so far?
what do you believe i am aligned?
you cut out the part that I was concerned with, actually
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On February 25 2011 04:56 annul wrote:
1, bandwagoning. by whom? by you, you mean? because i am entirely certain that i began the wagons on chaoser and GM. called them out ridic early in the game and continued to question the cells idea logic all game. so... ?
Note the bolded
that is a direct lie
-> open voting thread ->
see the first vote on GMarshal, in the VERY first vote, from yours truly
You are lying.
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On February 25 2011 05:06 gryffindor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:56 annul wrote:
1, bandwagoning. by whom? by you, you mean? because i am entirely certain that i began the wagons on chaoser and GM. called them out ridic early in the game and continued to question the cells idea logic all game. so... ?
Note the bolded that is a direct lie -> open voting thread -> see the first vote on GMarshal, in the VERY first vote, from yours truly You are lying.
Didn't the mods call you out for lying? if we lynch him for that reason, we would have to lynch you as well =\
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I spoilerized my mistake in the voting thread, to save space. I'm waiting on RoL to get back to me as to what he wants me to do about that.
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EPT
