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Orgolove needs at least a 1 game ban. I'd go for 2. Yes, he looks like he wants to play, but he's also been known to have behavioral issues before (Insane mafia). If he gets away with a 1 game ban he should be on a short leash for behavior.
I really think we need two categories for lists, one for inactivity modkills, and one for behavioral issue modkills. At first, bans were meant to circumvent the swarms of inactives around here. But we've already had some major behavioral issues around here that nobody wants to deal with. The thing is, I'm not sure the regular ban list system works for behavior issues since every behavior problem is different. Plus, people get older and mature sometimes, which can fix behavioral problems, while inactivity probably won't improve over time. Also, some people seem not to care about flaming and what not. Which gives even more reason to have a separate list. Thoughts?
On BM: I'm currently opposed to letting him host. Looking back at all the games he's hosted, things haven't gone well. Earlier, we let him continue hosting because we figured that if people were willing to put up with his hosting, then it wasn't our problem, and that supply/demand would be the test to determine if his games would run or not. The problem is that now with our larger game pool and Queue system, this is just going to take up space and prevent others from hosting. I'm pretty sure people willing to play in BM's games would be content playing in other hosts games instead.
As for letting him play, that's a different issue. He's been banned. He hasn't sat out any games. Its only been 3 months. He has been a MAJOR behavioral problem ever since he's first started playing and has threatened to ruin games before. You can't just come back on a smurf and think everything will be all right.
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no bm shouldn't be allowed to play, or host
he has a lonnnnnng history of being inconsiderate of other people in every way possible. This is like an immortal sin to me, disrespecting other players, and especially the fucking game hosts.
Anyone who was in or witnessed the last game before he got banned could see this. It was bm's personality at its strongest. He was straight up disregarding the game host and was blatantly ignoring him like a 5 year old in his little rant. I cant remember ever playing in a game with him where he didn't bring down the overall quality some how.
Even the last game he hosted, i remember he was changing a bunch of game policies/rules or whatever halfway through to the blatant benefit of one side when it was entirely unnecessary etc.
To me i see bill murray as an abusive husband. Sure sometimes he can get his wife (us) to come back to him if he's polite and has flowers and chocolates. But as soon as we let him back in we're going to get smacked around for it.
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I don't want to weigh in very heavily on one side or the other since the only game I've played with BM was haunted mafia. But judging from the Qatol PMs alone, he sure doesn't look very repentant. He's continuing to blame DrH and "the stupidity of the players" when at the time it seemed everyone was relieved to see him gone (I mean, plexa banned the guy). Whether or not this means he'll be a better host or player I don't know, but judging from that content alone I don't see much of an attitude change.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 19 2011 11:54 Node wrote:
I don't want to weigh in very heavily on one side or the other since the only game I've played with BM was haunted mafia. But judging from the Qatol PMs alone, he sure doesn't look very repentant. He's continuing to blame DrH and "the stupidity of the players" when at the time it seemed everyone was relieved to see him gone (I mean, plexa banned the guy). Whether or not this means he'll be a better host or player I don't know, but judging from that content alone I don't see much of an attitude change.
This. Someone that blames their attitude on "stupidity" of other players should not be on this forum. Yes, people are stupid, and everyone can be really stupid sometimes, but it's part of the game. BM still raging about other peoples' stupidity sounds pretty childish.
I think he needs more time if we're ever going to let him back in. And if we do, he needs to play games first before we let him host, so we can make sure he really has changed for the better.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Two games for orgolove. For those of you saying "a warning is fine" I say "bans make for nice warnings." TL bans for this type of language. He's had trouble in a previous game with behavioral problems as well, and honestly punishing behavior modkills should be at least on par with inactivity modkills, if not more severe.
Regarding Bill Murray: no to hosting. I'm sorry Bill, you were a nice enough guy to me, but you mistreated the Mafia forum. I know a few players that either no longer play or are very turned away from Mafia in part or in whole because of Bill Murray, and that's not to speak of anybody new. The games Bill has hosted haven't been well-moderated either. Rule changes in XXVIII caused people to be mad, and let's not talk about Harry Potter.
If he wants to play, he needs to wait longer as well. Three months is way too short of a time period. Hell, sometimes a "three game ban" can last for three months. I'm of the mindset that people don't usually repent, and it takes something powerful to change a person. While I think we should give him another chance sometime in the future, the future is a while away.
And even then, no hosting till he's shown he can interact with TL Mafia in a cordial manner.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
I hope I made my case abundantly clear in the previous post, linked below:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114622¤tpage=44#866
According to the opening post of the ban list, the decision will ultimately be done by a consensus.
On March 04 2010 15:36 Qatol wrote:
What to do if you have a problem with your ban
First talk to the moderator who modkilled you and asked for a ban in the first place. Try to explain to them why the punishment is incorrect in your situation. If that does not work, post the situation here. I will not make decisions about bans by other hosts via PM. Anyone can give their opinion in these situations, but the opinions of former hosts will be given greater weight. The opinion of the host of the game you were banned in will be given the greatest weight (but they can still be overruled by a consensus).
Except for the co-hosts of the game in dispute, eight players, including four regular hosts and a mod of TL, as well as the current maintainer of the active TL mafia games thread, all recommended a warning or less.
On January 17 2011 15:32 Ver wrote:
If Orgolove had just raged out of the game ala scara after making the noted flame posts and left it at that I would have argued for a very long ban, especially considering his past history.
However given that a) he listened and tried to get back on track in the game b) Has seriously attempted to present his case and show that he can reform, he obviously isn't just one of those many people who just doesn't care.
Given this I'd be inclined to vote for a very serious warning. As in if he plays nice and is active with no serious problems then all good, but if he flames someone again to that degree then he gets a many game ban if not perma.
The ban list was created to punish the game-ruiners who simply don't care about what they are doing, which I don't think orgolove falls under. If he goes out of line again then it's over, but otherwise I'm okay with that 3rd chance to give him the honest chance to reform.
On January 15 2011 13:36 LSB wrote:
I support orgolove, but maybe just a warning, I know that others made rage posts and got of with a warning and I don't see any reason why Orgo should be treated differently On January 17 2011 16:12 Node wrote:
After his actions in XXXV, I'm willing to let orgolove play in my game on a very short leash. If he is officially added to the ban list (as the final decision has yet to be reached, and there appears to be contention on adding him at all), he will not be allowed to play. On January 16 2011 16:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
meh if my opinion matters at all for it I would just have a mild warning on Orgo's account. Just in the future avoid personal attacks at all. When I play I can be kind of aggressive and call what people say stupid but I never deal any serious personal attacks.
I would say give him a warning and if he gets modkilled because of personal attacks in another game it is an extended ban, he is right about our banlist mainly meant to keep in line players who were over the top game disruptive IE: Folca/Showtime!/etc people who seriously fucked up and/or were complete assholes and those who just joined games then never played. I don't think Orgo really qualifies as either. On January 15 2011 18:00 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 15:48 TheMango wrote:
And btw, if you were in my situation, and got a hornet's nest of players who got onto your case, including a MOD that called all your hours-long efforts nothing but crazed ranting, then I'm sure you would also feel like quitting, at least temporarily.
I don't see anything wrong with what I posted. Sorry you took it personally, but I feel what I wrote is well in the spirit and rules of the game. Especially since your analysis was totally off base and wrong  You on the other hand, you took it way too far with your curse laden rant and your over the top replies to people criticizing you. At a certain point, you have to step back and realize this is just a game. There's no reason why you cant be both competitive and civil. btw, I don't think you should be perma banned, but this should act as a last warning. On January 16 2011 09:24 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 16:32 Fishball wrote:On January 15 2011 15:54 orgolove wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:but if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL, you can't get away with it here. If you're going to focus on the word "cunt" that much: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98457¤tpage=49#972long post. + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2009 00:34 Elemenope wrote:Ok, listen up cunts. Ver has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of giving us new information. All of it is just information ALREADY STATED. No one gives a fuck who found Clazz or who found Kuja. Fuck, if Kuja weren't such a dumbfuck and turned out to be townie, you guys would start crying because half of you already role claimed to Ver based on UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION. Ver *still* hasn't posted these mafia names. And for what? "THEY'LL IMPLICATE OTHER PEOPLE!" Ok, gee. If it were *anybody* other than Ace, L, Ver, all you cunts would be saying "WE CAN'T TRUST HIM, RELEASE THESE NAMES." You guys are playing with Ver's balls so much. The only reason Ver can get away with this is because he's a big name. "Hey, let me write a long post and not explain anything new and rehash information while saying I also have new mafia names while not stating who these mafia are, even after they can't kill me or these people that would be compromised". Jesus fucking christ, how the fuck can you guys even role claim after nothing new was said. Ver brought *nothing new* to the table at all. He's giving us a "Hey, trust me, I have mafia, not going to say who, but trust me, I'm a big name". You guys are backwards like hell. Asking Ace to role claim based on his Clazziquai information, yet you guys blindly trust Ver based on his.....old information? At least Ace fucking did something to help the town so far. "OH BUT THEY'RE GOING TO RAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY" Jesus christ this is a fucking non-issue. It's 3 people max that can rally. Oh look at that, we have at least 2 vigs, and we have a lynch tomorrow. HOLY SHIT PROBLEM SOLVED. They can't get other people into their doomed 3 person circle as everybody else can be like "hey man, this is a long PM explaining why I'm mafia, trust me, everybody seems to do it" "BUT MY ASSOCIATES AND FRIENDS ETC ARE GOING TO DIIIIIIIIIE BY THESE MAFIA IF NAMES ARE RELEASED" So we trade 3 people for 3 mafia when they're already going to be down 4. So you think there's 20 mafia or something? They get no new information, no new rallying point. In comparison, we can get our own communication web set up based upon the veracity of your claims of these mafia which means coordination between remaining power roles unlike mafia, who are boned because of Kuja and going to be down 7 mafia by 4th night if you were to release these names. "BUT HE'S VER, HE DOESN'T NEED TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF" Right. Jesus christ, you guys are like fucking sheep every single goddamn game. Why you guys don't have the word 'doubt' in your vocabulary is beyond me. Moving on to a different subject: Motbob's roleclaim. This is so fucking far out there, I am seriously fucking doubting it. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:21 motbob wrote:
The mafia thought he still had me convinced he was NKVD. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:27 motbob wrote:
Well Ver has a good reason for keeping his mafias a secret, but I guess I don't. It's RebirthofLegend. Ok. Anybody who got the PM, which is everybody in the WHOLE MAFIA FORUM it seems since even fucking CALLER GOT THE PM, knows that it didn't REMOTELY IMPLY NKVD AT FUCKING ALL. Show nested quote +yo mannn I just used my role check today to check you, and you came back as a Ukrainian too, I was trying to figure out how Caller wrote clues and I guess I got it (or got lucky rofl) just PM me back so we can get this Ukrainian death machine rolling, the sooner we organized the better. If you don't want to PM me back yet, I suggest using your power and checking me too. I can surely see what is going on through medic motbob's mind: "OH SHIT, THIS GUY IS CLAIMING TO BE UKRAINIAN AND IS CALLING ME UKRAINIAN. HE IS SURE DOING A GOOD JOB CONVINCING ME HE'S NKVD. LET ME ROLE CLAIM TO HIM." Like come the fuck on. I'm going to restate it: Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:28 Elemenope wrote:
I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.
No one can possibly be so fucking moronic as to role claim to this guy. YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THE EXCUSE OF NOT READING THE THREAD SINCE HE HAD NO MENTION OF NKVD OR IMPLICATION OF SUCH IN THAT FUCKING PM. And somehow you protecting Ver makes Ver legit. Because mafia can't target other mafia. BECAUSE HE GOT SAVED TWICE! Because that second save is full of as much truth as that first save. OK BRB GOING TO ROLE CLAIM TO VER. How the fuck you're even still alive after night 2 if you truly did R/C to someone is beyond me since RoL could've had someone else kill you. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS, JUST FUCKING QUIT THE GAME. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 20:20 Shikyo wrote:
I don't get some things still. Elemenope, for example. Suggesting that everyone is scum? Could be a mafia ploy to cause confusion, or it could be a method to make people ignore you. But it could also just be for the sake of bragging that you were right in the case you were a townie. Not anywhere close. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 18:25 coltrane wrote:
We need info. Stop trolling the thread.
Funny, since the guy you guys seem to blindly trust is lacking in the whole giving the town information department. There has been quite many lulz going on in these 3 days, but it's more becoming of a facepalm as I see people blindly trusting others based upon word simply because they want an easy way out of thinking. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DOUBT AND THINK, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. And I see no Elemenope in your ban list. Oh, and this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=4933541On April 01 2010 05:06 XeliN wrote:
It got to me more than I would care to admit but in my eyes he is a massive cunt for doing so and I'm not even religious Though Xelin's on your banlist, he wasn't banned directly after this game. FInally. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119295¤tpage=2#23On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily. etc etc. Also: On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:
if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL Do you want me to go through the whole site and look for every instance when FakeSteve said the word "cunt"? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=3398¤tpage=37#967On February 20 2007 05:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
STOP BEING A CUNT KENNETH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23676¤tpage=26#513On February 21 2005 09:31 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2005 09:27 Sw1tCh wrote:
Steve, cork your cry-hole. Dredg > you besides the fact that your taste in music is pathetic you're an abrasive cunt and i'm better than you at everything http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=93792¤tpage=14#264On May 24 2009 17:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
last night at this italian place some drunk dumpy norwegian cunt assaulted nvnplatypus and i with her repulsive personality Oh wait, since you quoted manifesto7, I can use the search too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=71609#15On May 18 2008 09:04 Manifesto7 wrote:
And we dont know why the stream died at first... it is just the software acting like a cunt Point is, anyone can say words like that in the heat of the moment. You can't just make that the sole basis of a ban. You realize that I spent only -two- posts raging. The primary cause of the rage was because 1. flamewheel asked me to be more active 2. I became more active, and in the meantime became a lot more invested into the game So. when I saw the whole town sheep repeatedly towards a player who did not play well, to put it lightly, I couldn't help but feel frustrated. Did I spam the thread with this rage? No. You have to realize this - Immediately after I posted the two rages, I went right back into the game, like any good player would, and tried to get the town back on track. Any sidetracked posts after this were directly caused by the nonparticipating outsiders barging in and derailing the thread. EVEN THEN. I still tried to keep going, and did my best to convince Shockeyy inbetween answering the hornet's nest of... demeaning remarks. I was called a fool and an egomaniac, and then my entire efforts for the past two days were dismissed by a MOD as crazy raving. How can anyone stay calm in such a situation? Pandain, to whom I had directed the two posts of rage and thus is the one with the greatest say in my "punishment," does not want me to be banned (and this was through no request by me - you can ask a mod if you wish.) Further, even though the OP of the mafia I participated in clearly states that I will be given a warning before being modkilled, the hosts ignored this and immediately struck me out. Please look at the situation objectively. I don't deserve a ban for this. No one called you a fool. On January 14 2011 23:44 Fishball wrote:Not exactly game related. Edited after reading page 74. + Show Spoiler +On January 14 2011 15:22 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 15:09 Fishball wrote:On January 14 2011 15:08 Foolishness wrote:
I wish that my ego was so tainted that I had to resort to calling people cunts and dumbass just so I can repress the realization that there might be people on the "internet" who are superior in intelligence than me. Fools have no ego. I don't understand this shit. Pandain directly caused the lynch of a blue and three greens. And he's the direct cause of missing a lynch on a 100% clear red, and will most probably lead to town's loss. And yet, you're calling -me- a fool?. Huh? I was poking fun at Foolishness. I don't follow the thread, and I only read it when a Day/Night post is up. I don't think I would ever want to divert any of my attention to you orgolove. Who the hell calls another person a fool these days anyways. Don't worry Fishball, I understood that you were poking fun at me! I actually found it a little funny when orgolove thought you were calling him a fool. I give the guy credit because after he was told to calm down, he immediately did and made a game relevant post. Most people who get banned for rage aren't able to just turn around like that. On January 17 2011 15:52 Foolishness wrote:
The guy clearly wants to play mafia, at least let him play in Node's game and see how it goes. As Ver said, most people just rage quit, very few actually try to reform on their past mistakes. On January 15 2011 13:44 Pandain wrote:
I don't see why orgolove should really get a ban. He was just being mad at how he perceived a "dumb town". It's like what I felt in...I forgot the specifics. But I was being dumb(again) and felt that everyone was following RoL's analysis of aidnai, which i felt was complete BS. Turns out he was right later on, but then I was so just...disillusioned I had to get myself replaced.
Just warn him imo On January 15 2011 12:18 Coagulation wrote:
no dont perma orgolove
his anger pleases me.
I won't repeat the other points that I had already posted in my case letter, but wouldn't this constitute a consensus?
I've promised several times before, and I'll promise again here - I won't fall into that state of mind again. I made a mistake - and I'll make sure it won't repeat again. Even flamewheel has occasionally stooped to post some pretty... "risque" stuff before:
+ Show Spoiler +
I humbly ask for your understanding.
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In regards to bm. No to initial hosting, period. He has to in my mind earn that right back. He lost it in the combination or rage / poor hosting.
In regards to playing. I suggest the following.
IF he is serious about returning. We let him play in one game. If by mutual consideration of a group of us he behaved well and was able to keep his temper in check, we allow him the opportunity to play again. However, if he is accepted back into the community off this he still will have to make it up to us therefore i suggest after this preliminary game he must serve a 2-3 game sitout on the banlist.
Between a trial game and being forced too sit out a few afterwards we should have a good idea on if he is actually serious about changing or not. If he continues his old ways at all during or after these points he gets auto banned again without the chance of appeal.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Yes, you made your case so excruciatingly clear--you don't want to be added to the ban list. Who does? Either way, the part you've quoted from the ban list doesn't serve to help your case at all. [b]I seriously doubt most people knew or considered that you were modkilled for similarly disruptive actions by Artanis in Insane at the time of their "aww don't ban orgolove." If this were your first transgression I'd be more than happy to give you a warning, but I can't emphasize enough that you've had behavioral problems before, and were summarily modkilled/banned from it.
That being said, I still don't get what this whole "warning" system is about. Traditionally warnings have been given to people for dropping out of games due to inactivity
Also, you really don't help yourself by going through my post history looking for the word "fuck". I have a few minutes, so I can tell you exactly how each of those posts correlate to the thread/timing of the game where they are posted without even checking.
Post number one comes from the Harry Potter game, where I am quoting what Molly Weasley says to Bellatrix at the end of the 7th book before killing her.
Post number two is a comment about how fast the days/nights were over in Caller's game due to its unique nature of shoot, not vote.
Post number three is a complaint about myself, for not being able to find a formatting error in my first hosted game.
Post five is a meme.
Post six is a compliment from the first PYP, when Korynne won the game at LYLO by taking down compvig Mafia Foolishness.
Post seven is a continuation of the Seaking meme.
Post eight is a comment about my surprise that Roffles and Radfield managed to win HP Mafia despite overwhelming odds.
Post nine is referencing the day post above it, where "Flamewheel the cute" was killed off.
Post ten is an extended "LOL" after suicide bomber XeliN took out three blues by himself.
Post eleven is a post directed at my own hastily-written story from TL Mafia XXX.
Post twelve is a compliment to Chezinu for his silly stories in TL Mafia XXX.
Post thirteen is me being aggravated and telling Bill Murray to stop triple/quadruple posting.
Post fourteen is commenting on the ridiculous number of pages in Insane Mafia.
Post fifteen is surprise.
Post sixteen lambasts Starcraft II. Of all the posts you've quoted so far, this is the only one with any hint of vitriol in it, and it's directed at a game that I do not like.
Post seventeen is silly.
Post eighteen is directed at the insanity of Harry Potter Mafia.
Next time you try to build credence for yourself by attempting to bring others down to your level, at least look for context. While I do have a tendency to bandy around random F-bombs, none of my posts are inflammatory or insulting to others.
Yes, the final decision is consensus. But this is a court case where all information was not disclosed at the time of judgment. Neither Incognito nor I will be letting up on this, since we both think you deserve a ban, and sadly for you we're not alone.
I want the others who commented on this to go read through Insane and find orgolove's attacks on DoctorHelvetica, the subsequent warning from Artanis to knock it off, and the continuation of said attacks leading to a modkill/ban on the ban list. Incognito and I hosted the game you were modkilled in, and even though we can be overruled by consensus (see: lots of people that have been fully brought up to speed on the situation) our opinions matter the most.
The only leniency I would give is to let you play in XXXVI, but you'd have to be on your best behavior. Regardless, after that game the two game ban the hosts of XXXV are asking for stands.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
I don't understand why your tone is so aggressive. I'm not trying to provoke you or incite you. The only point I made is, anyone can say things they regret in the long run. I mean, would you really want to say that "starcraft 2 sucks" in a mafia thread?... Or write a meme?...
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The contention is this:
On March 04 2010 15:36 Qatol wrote:
What to do if you have a problem with your ban
First talk to the moderator who modkilled you and asked for a ban in the first place. Try to explain to them why the punishment is incorrect in your situation. If that does not work, post the situation here. I will not make decisions about bans by other hosts via PM. Anyone can give their opinion in these situations, but the opinions of former hosts will be given greater weight. The opinion of the host of the game you were banned in will be given the greatest weight (but they can still be overruled by a consensus).
The decision of a ban will be determined by a consensus. Except for the co-hosts of the game I was in, every player who has joined in with an opinion about this has supported a warning, or less. These include:
1. Four former hosts, whose "opinions will be given greater weight." And Ver, perhaps one of the most respected members here in TL Mafia, has supported a warning, after mentioning my previous ban.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2011 15:32 Ver wrote:
If Orgolove had just raged out of the game ala scara after making the noted flame posts and left it at that I would have argued for a very long ban, especially considering his past history.
However given that a) he listened and tried to get back on track in the game b) Has seriously attempted to present his case and show that he can reform, he obviously isn't just one of those many people who just doesn't care.
Given this I'd be inclined to vote for a very serious warning. As in if he plays nice and is active with no serious problems then all good, but if he flames someone again to that degree then he gets a many game ban if not perma.
The ban list was created to punish the game-ruiners who simply don't care about what they are doing, which I don't think orgolove falls under. If he goes out of line again then it's over, but otherwise I'm okay with that 3rd chance to give him the honest chance to reform.
On January 15 2011 13:36 LSB wrote:
I support orgolove, but maybe just a warning, I know that others made rage posts and got of with a warning and I don't see any reason why Orgo should be treated differently On January 17 2011 16:12 Node wrote:
After his actions in XXXV, I'm willing to let orgolove play in my game on a very short leash. If he is officially added to the ban list (as the final decision has yet to be reached, and there appears to be contention on adding him at all), he will not be allowed to play. On January 16 2011 16:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
meh if my opinion matters at all for it I would just have a mild warning on Orgo's account. Just in the future avoid personal attacks at all. When I play I can be kind of aggressive and call what people say stupid but I never deal any serious personal attacks.
I would say give him a warning and if he gets modkilled because of personal attacks in another game it is an extended ban, he is right about our banlist mainly meant to keep in line players who were over the top game disruptive IE: Folca/Showtime!/etc people who seriously fucked up and/or were complete assholes and those who just joined games then never played. I don't think Orgo really qualifies as either.
2. A TL Mod. One of the biggest arguments for my ban was that:
On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:
If you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL, you can't get away with it here
A TL mod still supports a warning.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 18:00 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 15:48 TheMango wrote:
And btw, if you were in my situation, and got a hornet's nest of players who got onto your case, including a MOD that called all your hours-long efforts nothing but crazed ranting, then I'm sure you would also feel like quitting, at least temporarily.
I don't see anything wrong with what I posted. Sorry you took it personally, but I feel what I wrote is well in the spirit and rules of the game. Especially since your analysis was totally off base and wrong You on the other hand, you took it way too far with your curse laden rant and your over the top replies to people criticizing you. At a certain point, you have to step back and realize this is just a game. There's no reason why you cant be both competitive and civil. btw, I don't think you should be perma banned, but this should act as a last warning.
3. The current overseer of the active mafia games thread.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2011 09:24 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 16:32 Fishball wrote:On January 15 2011 15:54 orgolove wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:but if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL, you can't get away with it here. If you're going to focus on the word "cunt" that much: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98457¤tpage=49#972long post. + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2009 00:34 Elemenope wrote:Ok, listen up cunts. Ver has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of giving us new information. All of it is just information ALREADY STATED. No one gives a fuck who found Clazz or who found Kuja. Fuck, if Kuja weren't such a dumbfuck and turned out to be townie, you guys would start crying because half of you already role claimed to Ver based on UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION. Ver *still* hasn't posted these mafia names. And for what? "THEY'LL IMPLICATE OTHER PEOPLE!" Ok, gee. If it were *anybody* other than Ace, L, Ver, all you cunts would be saying "WE CAN'T TRUST HIM, RELEASE THESE NAMES." You guys are playing with Ver's balls so much. The only reason Ver can get away with this is because he's a big name. "Hey, let me write a long post and not explain anything new and rehash information while saying I also have new mafia names while not stating who these mafia are, even after they can't kill me or these people that would be compromised". Jesus fucking christ, how the fuck can you guys even role claim after nothing new was said. Ver brought *nothing new* to the table at all. He's giving us a "Hey, trust me, I have mafia, not going to say who, but trust me, I'm a big name". You guys are backwards like hell. Asking Ace to role claim based on his Clazziquai information, yet you guys blindly trust Ver based on his.....old information? At least Ace fucking did something to help the town so far. "OH BUT THEY'RE GOING TO RAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY" Jesus christ this is a fucking non-issue. It's 3 people max that can rally. Oh look at that, we have at least 2 vigs, and we have a lynch tomorrow. HOLY SHIT PROBLEM SOLVED. They can't get other people into their doomed 3 person circle as everybody else can be like "hey man, this is a long PM explaining why I'm mafia, trust me, everybody seems to do it" "BUT MY ASSOCIATES AND FRIENDS ETC ARE GOING TO DIIIIIIIIIE BY THESE MAFIA IF NAMES ARE RELEASED" So we trade 3 people for 3 mafia when they're already going to be down 4. So you think there's 20 mafia or something? They get no new information, no new rallying point. In comparison, we can get our own communication web set up based upon the veracity of your claims of these mafia which means coordination between remaining power roles unlike mafia, who are boned because of Kuja and going to be down 7 mafia by 4th night if you were to release these names. "BUT HE'S VER, HE DOESN'T NEED TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF" Right. Jesus christ, you guys are like fucking sheep every single goddamn game. Why you guys don't have the word 'doubt' in your vocabulary is beyond me. Moving on to a different subject: Motbob's roleclaim. This is so fucking far out there, I am seriously fucking doubting it. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:21 motbob wrote:
The mafia thought he still had me convinced he was NKVD. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:27 motbob wrote:
Well Ver has a good reason for keeping his mafias a secret, but I guess I don't. It's RebirthofLegend. Ok. Anybody who got the PM, which is everybody in the WHOLE MAFIA FORUM it seems since even fucking CALLER GOT THE PM, knows that it didn't REMOTELY IMPLY NKVD AT FUCKING ALL. Show nested quote +yo mannn I just used my role check today to check you, and you came back as a Ukrainian too, I was trying to figure out how Caller wrote clues and I guess I got it (or got lucky rofl) just PM me back so we can get this Ukrainian death machine rolling, the sooner we organized the better. If you don't want to PM me back yet, I suggest using your power and checking me too. I can surely see what is going on through medic motbob's mind: "OH SHIT, THIS GUY IS CLAIMING TO BE UKRAINIAN AND IS CALLING ME UKRAINIAN. HE IS SURE DOING A GOOD JOB CONVINCING ME HE'S NKVD. LET ME ROLE CLAIM TO HIM." Like come the fuck on. I'm going to restate it: Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:28 Elemenope wrote:
I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.
No one can possibly be so fucking moronic as to role claim to this guy. YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THE EXCUSE OF NOT READING THE THREAD SINCE HE HAD NO MENTION OF NKVD OR IMPLICATION OF SUCH IN THAT FUCKING PM. And somehow you protecting Ver makes Ver legit. Because mafia can't target other mafia. BECAUSE HE GOT SAVED TWICE! Because that second save is full of as much truth as that first save. OK BRB GOING TO ROLE CLAIM TO VER. How the fuck you're even still alive after night 2 if you truly did R/C to someone is beyond me since RoL could've had someone else kill you. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS, JUST FUCKING QUIT THE GAME. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 20:20 Shikyo wrote:
I don't get some things still. Elemenope, for example. Suggesting that everyone is scum? Could be a mafia ploy to cause confusion, or it could be a method to make people ignore you. But it could also just be for the sake of bragging that you were right in the case you were a townie. Not anywhere close. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 18:25 coltrane wrote:
We need info. Stop trolling the thread.
Funny, since the guy you guys seem to blindly trust is lacking in the whole giving the town information department. There has been quite many lulz going on in these 3 days, but it's more becoming of a facepalm as I see people blindly trusting others based upon word simply because they want an easy way out of thinking. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DOUBT AND THINK, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. And I see no Elemenope in your ban list. Oh, and this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=4933541On April 01 2010 05:06 XeliN wrote:
It got to me more than I would care to admit but in my eyes he is a massive cunt for doing so and I'm not even religious Though Xelin's on your banlist, he wasn't banned directly after this game. FInally. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119295¤tpage=2#23On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily. etc etc. Also: On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:
if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL Do you want me to go through the whole site and look for every instance when FakeSteve said the word "cunt"? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=3398¤tpage=37#967On February 20 2007 05:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
STOP BEING A CUNT KENNETH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23676¤tpage=26#513On February 21 2005 09:31 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2005 09:27 Sw1tCh wrote:
Steve, cork your cry-hole. Dredg > you besides the fact that your taste in music is pathetic you're an abrasive cunt and i'm better than you at everything http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=93792¤tpage=14#264On May 24 2009 17:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
last night at this italian place some drunk dumpy norwegian cunt assaulted nvnplatypus and i with her repulsive personality Oh wait, since you quoted manifesto7, I can use the search too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=71609#15On May 18 2008 09:04 Manifesto7 wrote:
And we dont know why the stream died at first... it is just the software acting like a cunt Point is, anyone can say words like that in the heat of the moment. You can't just make that the sole basis of a ban. You realize that I spent only -two- posts raging. The primary cause of the rage was because 1. flamewheel asked me to be more active 2. I became more active, and in the meantime became a lot more invested into the game So. when I saw the whole town sheep repeatedly towards a player who did not play well, to put it lightly, I couldn't help but feel frustrated. Did I spam the thread with this rage? No. You have to realize this - Immediately after I posted the two rages, I went right back into the game, like any good player would, and tried to get the town back on track. Any sidetracked posts after this were directly caused by the nonparticipating outsiders barging in and derailing the thread. EVEN THEN. I still tried to keep going, and did my best to convince Shockeyy inbetween answering the hornet's nest of... demeaning remarks. I was called a fool and an egomaniac, and then my entire efforts for the past two days were dismissed by a MOD as crazy raving. How can anyone stay calm in such a situation? Pandain, to whom I had directed the two posts of rage and thus is the one with the greatest say in my "punishment," does not want me to be banned (and this was through no request by me - you can ask a mod if you wish.) Further, even though the OP of the mafia I participated in clearly states that I will be given a warning before being modkilled, the hosts ignored this and immediately struck me out. Please look at the situation objectively. I don't deserve a ban for this. No one called you a fool. On January 14 2011 23:44 Fishball wrote:Not exactly game related. Edited after reading page 74. + Show Spoiler +On January 14 2011 15:22 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 15:09 Fishball wrote:On January 14 2011 15:08 Foolishness wrote:
I wish that my ego was so tainted that I had to resort to calling people cunts and dumbass just so I can repress the realization that there might be people on the "internet" who are superior in intelligence than me. Fools have no ego. I don't understand this shit. Pandain directly caused the lynch of a blue and three greens. And he's the direct cause of missing a lynch on a 100% clear red, and will most probably lead to town's loss. And yet, you're calling -me- a fool?. Huh? I was poking fun at Foolishness. I don't follow the thread, and I only read it when a Day/Night post is up. I don't think I would ever want to divert any of my attention to you orgolove. Who the hell calls another person a fool these days anyways. Don't worry Fishball, I understood that you were poking fun at me! I actually found it a little funny when orgolove thought you were calling him a fool. I give the guy credit because after he was told to calm down, he immediately did and made a game relevant post. Most people who get banned for rage aren't able to just turn around like that. On January 17 2011 15:52 Foolishness wrote:
The guy clearly wants to play mafia, at least let him play in Node's game and see how it goes. As Ver said, most people just rage quit, very few actually try to reform on their past mistakes.
4. Two other players, including the very player to whom my rage was directed against, and is thus most qualified to "feel hurt" and "think it has a bad effect on the mafia environment"
+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 13:44 Pandain wrote:
I don't see why orgolove should really get a ban. He was just being mad at how he perceived a "dumb town". It's like what I felt in...I forgot the specifics. But I was being dumb(again) and felt that everyone was following RoL's analysis of aidnai, which i felt was complete BS. Turns out he was right later on, but then I was so just...disillusioned I had to get myself replaced.
Just warn him imo On January 15 2011 12:18 Coagulation wrote:
no dont perma orgolove
his anger pleases me.
You think that all the former hosts and players who supported a warning will change their mind if they check my previous record. I hardly recall the words of these players being under such scrutiny under other times, but anyway... Even Ver has mentioned my old record and yet still recommended a serious warning, instead of a ban.
I would think that if the opinion of every player who chimed in on this (except the actual co-hosts) have expressed the same opinion, that it'd qualify for a consensus. Yes?
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I think BM's case can be settled by letting the mod of a game decide. That way instead of the entire forum having to make the decision let the individual game mod do it for his 1st game back. Needless to say most of us are not going to let him play so it will be up to him to find someone who will allow him back.
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The nice thing about having a ban list is that the ban list is the bad guy. It's gonna be pretty tough for hosts to straight up tell BM, look, I don't really want you playing in my game. I can easily forsee people feeling bullied into letting him in, leading to more situations where resentment and frustration can occur.
Let the ban list be the bad guy Ace, don't make every single host into the bad guy.
"As a general rule, try to avoid exceptions" (concluding with a dumb quote that I think sounds funny)
Edit: I have nothing against BillMurray and have never played/interacted with him. Actually, I owe him some gratitude because discussion of his ban in the automated ban list thread lead me to discover the mafia forum...
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for behaviour orgolove needs like, 1-2 game ban. I'd let him still play in xxxvi purely because hes already signed up in it and if he can pull off an extremely manner game i'd be willing to let him off with a 1 game ban. But best behaviour is key.
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re: orgolove,
saying fuck isn't disallowed
saying fuck in an insulting/provocative/etc way towards another player with ad hominem intentions, now that is disallowed
re: BM
his actions were so bad, THE primary mechanic in the very next mafia game, that killed everybody, was named after him. think about it.
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As someone who's been following along with this forum even if I don't play very much, I think orgolove should probably get a ban for his behavior. Like Flamewheel said, TL would ban someone for making the sort of posts that he made. In fact, they've banned people for saying much less, like "So-and-so is fail." I don't see why the Mafia forum's standards should be different. TL encourages its posters to react in a mature manner to other people's posts, and I think we should too.
Believe me, I understand that playing Mafia can be an extremely emotional experience that can bring out the worst in a person. I've been there, But I think that, when most people get angry about something happening in a Mafia game, they step away from the computer and probably vent their feelings harmlessly elsewhere. That would be the mature thing to do. They usually don't start raging and flaming other people in the thread and derailing it into an argument about who's the bigger idiot. And if someone does...well, that's one reason why we established this ban list in the first place.
While I'm extremely impressed by orgolove's humility and the effort he's put into finding evidence to support his case, I think he should've put this much effort into controlling his temper in the first place. (It also bears mentioning that a lot of the worst examples he found occurred before the ban list was instituted, e.g. Elemenope's expletive-filled posts. As the ban list wasn't meant to be retroactive, which is why those people don't show up on it, those examples are pretty much moot.) I think he should sit out a game after XXXVI, because of his history with behavior problems. That way, he can demonstrate his maturity and willingness to improve in a much more solid way than just promises to play better.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Sigh. BloodyC0bbler was modkilled for inactivity in TL Mini Mafia IV. Not going to say anything more till Incognito's back though.
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Eiii modkilled for rampant inactivity in Pick Your Power 3.
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I suppose when I host XXXVII if you guys wanted to give BM a trial game I'd allow it to be that. I think I tend to be a more lenient host then most, but if he acts like a douche I will soulcrush modkill perma rape him.
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I'm going to sit out orgah mafia to serve my time.
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Regarding orgo: In the end, it's really up to the hosts of the game you got banned in. If you're polite, apologetic, and respectful, you can often get them to be lenient (Example: first game I ever played I revealed my role PM. That would usually be a pretty big punishment, but because I was apologetic (I honestly didn't know it was wrong), flame let me off with a 1 game ban.) What you are doing is still being combative, argumentative, and generally annoying, so it's no wonder that the game hosts are fed up with you. It's great that you are trying to find evidence to support, and great that you care so much about mafia, but in the end, you're just extending the issue way past what it needed to me. Take your ban, serve out your games, and work harder in the future. It's really not that bad.
Regarding BM: No hosting for sure. I still remember the horror that was XXVII. That said, I'd support the one trial game followed by a 3 game ban if he stays on his best, politest, non-spammiest behavior.
Regarding BC: Standard 1-game ban and then move on? Or has he already been banned once before? It's not like he's the type of person who'd try to use his status to dodge a ban, so I assume he'll just take however many bans he deserves and move on.
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On January 26 2011 03:03 BrownBear wrote:
Regarding orgo: In the end, it's really up to the hosts of the game you got banned in. If you're polite, apologetic, and respectful, you can often get them to be lenient (Example: first game I ever played I revealed my role PM. That would usually be a pretty big punishment, but because I was apologetic (I honestly didn't know it was wrong), flame let me off with a 1 game ban.) What you are doing is still being combative, argumentative, and generally annoying, so it's no wonder that the game hosts are fed up with you. It's great that you are trying to find evidence to support, and great that you care so much about mafia, but in the end, you're just extending the issue way past what it needed to me. Take your ban, serve out your games, and work harder in the future. It's really not that bad.
Regarding BM: No hosting for sure. I still remember the horror that was XXVII. That said, I'd support the one trial game followed by a 3 game ban if he stays on his best, politest, non-spammiest behavior.
Regarding BC: Standard 1-game ban and then move on? Or has he already been banned once before? It's not like he's the type of person who'd try to use his status to dodge a ban, so I assume he'll just take however many bans he deserves and move on.
Who would be responsible for deciding if BM's behaviour is up to snuff or not? beyond threats encouraging BM to be on his absolute best behaviour, what are the actual consequences if his posting is so-so, but not really horrible? Making a decision is easy in extreme cases, but I foresee a gray area here where no one will want to make a decision....
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EPT![[image loading]](http://msp185.photobucket.com/albums/x31/evilbdayclown/FuckYeahSeaking-1.jpg)
