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Mr. Wiggles and chaokel modkilled in Don't lose yo mafia.
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On January 16 2011 07:51 deconduo wrote:
Mr. Wiggles and chaokel modkilled in Don't lose yo mafia.
Ummm your game isn't following the ban list.... Chaoser is in the game and he is still on the ban list until XXXV ends at the very least.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On January 15 2011 16:32 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 15:54 orgolove wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:but if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL, you can't get away with it here. If you're going to focus on the word "cunt" that much: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98457¤tpage=49#972long post. + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2009 00:34 Elemenope wrote:Ok, listen up cunts. Ver has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of giving us new information. All of it is just information ALREADY STATED. No one gives a fuck who found Clazz or who found Kuja. Fuck, if Kuja weren't such a dumbfuck and turned out to be townie, you guys would start crying because half of you already role claimed to Ver based on UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION. Ver *still* hasn't posted these mafia names. And for what? "THEY'LL IMPLICATE OTHER PEOPLE!" Ok, gee. If it were *anybody* other than Ace, L, Ver, all you cunts would be saying "WE CAN'T TRUST HIM, RELEASE THESE NAMES." You guys are playing with Ver's balls so much. The only reason Ver can get away with this is because he's a big name. "Hey, let me write a long post and not explain anything new and rehash information while saying I also have new mafia names while not stating who these mafia are, even after they can't kill me or these people that would be compromised". Jesus fucking christ, how the fuck can you guys even role claim after nothing new was said. Ver brought *nothing new* to the table at all. He's giving us a "Hey, trust me, I have mafia, not going to say who, but trust me, I'm a big name". You guys are backwards like hell. Asking Ace to role claim based on his Clazziquai information, yet you guys blindly trust Ver based on his.....old information? At least Ace fucking did something to help the town so far. "OH BUT THEY'RE GOING TO RAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY" Jesus christ this is a fucking non-issue. It's 3 people max that can rally. Oh look at that, we have at least 2 vigs, and we have a lynch tomorrow. HOLY SHIT PROBLEM SOLVED. They can't get other people into their doomed 3 person circle as everybody else can be like "hey man, this is a long PM explaining why I'm mafia, trust me, everybody seems to do it" "BUT MY ASSOCIATES AND FRIENDS ETC ARE GOING TO DIIIIIIIIIE BY THESE MAFIA IF NAMES ARE RELEASED" So we trade 3 people for 3 mafia when they're already going to be down 4. So you think there's 20 mafia or something? They get no new information, no new rallying point. In comparison, we can get our own communication web set up based upon the veracity of your claims of these mafia which means coordination between remaining power roles unlike mafia, who are boned because of Kuja and going to be down 7 mafia by 4th night if you were to release these names. "BUT HE'S VER, HE DOESN'T NEED TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF" Right. Jesus christ, you guys are like fucking sheep every single goddamn game. Why you guys don't have the word 'doubt' in your vocabulary is beyond me. Moving on to a different subject: Motbob's roleclaim. This is so fucking far out there, I am seriously fucking doubting it. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:21 motbob wrote:
The mafia thought he still had me convinced he was NKVD. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:27 motbob wrote:
Well Ver has a good reason for keeping his mafias a secret, but I guess I don't. It's RebirthofLegend. Ok. Anybody who got the PM, which is everybody in the WHOLE MAFIA FORUM it seems since even fucking CALLER GOT THE PM, knows that it didn't REMOTELY IMPLY NKVD AT FUCKING ALL. Show nested quote +yo mannn I just used my role check today to check you, and you came back as a Ukrainian too, I was trying to figure out how Caller wrote clues and I guess I got it (or got lucky rofl) just PM me back so we can get this Ukrainian death machine rolling, the sooner we organized the better. If you don't want to PM me back yet, I suggest using your power and checking me too. I can surely see what is going on through medic motbob's mind: "OH SHIT, THIS GUY IS CLAIMING TO BE UKRAINIAN AND IS CALLING ME UKRAINIAN. HE IS SURE DOING A GOOD JOB CONVINCING ME HE'S NKVD. LET ME ROLE CLAIM TO HIM." Like come the fuck on. I'm going to restate it: Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:28 Elemenope wrote:
I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.
No one can possibly be so fucking moronic as to role claim to this guy. YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THE EXCUSE OF NOT READING THE THREAD SINCE HE HAD NO MENTION OF NKVD OR IMPLICATION OF SUCH IN THAT FUCKING PM. And somehow you protecting Ver makes Ver legit. Because mafia can't target other mafia. BECAUSE HE GOT SAVED TWICE! Because that second save is full of as much truth as that first save. OK BRB GOING TO ROLE CLAIM TO VER. How the fuck you're even still alive after night 2 if you truly did R/C to someone is beyond me since RoL could've had someone else kill you. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS, JUST FUCKING QUIT THE GAME. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 20:20 Shikyo wrote:
I don't get some things still. Elemenope, for example. Suggesting that everyone is scum? Could be a mafia ploy to cause confusion, or it could be a method to make people ignore you. But it could also just be for the sake of bragging that you were right in the case you were a townie. Not anywhere close. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 18:25 coltrane wrote:
We need info. Stop trolling the thread.
Funny, since the guy you guys seem to blindly trust is lacking in the whole giving the town information department. There has been quite many lulz going on in these 3 days, but it's more becoming of a facepalm as I see people blindly trusting others based upon word simply because they want an easy way out of thinking. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DOUBT AND THINK, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. And I see no Elemenope in your ban list. Oh, and this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=4933541On April 01 2010 05:06 XeliN wrote:
It got to me more than I would care to admit but in my eyes he is a massive cunt for doing so and I'm not even religious Though Xelin's on your banlist, he wasn't banned directly after this game. FInally. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119295¤tpage=2#23On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily. etc etc. Also: On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:
if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL Do you want me to go through the whole site and look for every instance when FakeSteve said the word "cunt"? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=3398¤tpage=37#967On February 20 2007 05:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
STOP BEING A CUNT KENNETH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23676¤tpage=26#513On February 21 2005 09:31 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2005 09:27 Sw1tCh wrote:
Steve, cork your cry-hole. Dredg > you besides the fact that your taste in music is pathetic you're an abrasive cunt and i'm better than you at everything http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=93792¤tpage=14#264On May 24 2009 17:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
last night at this italian place some drunk dumpy norwegian cunt assaulted nvnplatypus and i with her repulsive personality Oh wait, since you quoted manifesto7, I can use the search too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=71609#15On May 18 2008 09:04 Manifesto7 wrote:
And we dont know why the stream died at first... it is just the software acting like a cunt Point is, anyone can say words like that in the heat of the moment. You can't just make that the sole basis of a ban. You realize that I spent only -two- posts raging. The primary cause of the rage was because 1. flamewheel asked me to be more active 2. I became more active, and in the meantime became a lot more invested into the game So. when I saw the whole town sheep repeatedly towards a player who did not play well, to put it lightly, I couldn't help but feel frustrated. Did I spam the thread with this rage? No. You have to realize this - Immediately after I posted the two rages, I went right back into the game, like any good player would, and tried to get the town back on track. Any sidetracked posts after this were directly caused by the nonparticipating outsiders barging in and derailing the thread. EVEN THEN. I still tried to keep going, and did my best to convince Shockeyy inbetween answering the hornet's nest of... demeaning remarks. I was called a fool and an egomaniac, and then my entire efforts for the past two days were dismissed by a MOD as crazy raving. How can anyone stay calm in such a situation? Pandain, to whom I had directed the two posts of rage and thus is the one with the greatest say in my "punishment," does not want me to be banned (and this was through no request by me - you can ask a mod if you wish.) Further, even though the OP of the mafia I participated in clearly states that I will be given a warning before being modkilled, the hosts ignored this and immediately struck me out. Please look at the situation objectively. I don't deserve a ban for this. No one called you a fool. Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 23:44 Fishball wrote:Not exactly game related. Edited after reading page 74. + Show Spoiler +On January 14 2011 15:22 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 15:09 Fishball wrote:On January 14 2011 15:08 Foolishness wrote:
I wish that my ego was so tainted that I had to resort to calling people cunts and dumbass just so I can repress the realization that there might be people on the "internet" who are superior in intelligence than me. Fools have no ego. I don't understand this shit. Pandain directly caused the lynch of a blue and three greens. And he's the direct cause of missing a lynch on a 100% clear red, and will most probably lead to town's loss. And yet, you're calling -me- a fool?. Huh? I was poking fun at Foolishness. I don't follow the thread, and I only read it when a Day/Night post is up. I don't think I would ever want to divert any of my attention to you orgolove. Who the hell calls another person a fool these days anyways.
Don't worry Fishball, I understood that you were poking fun at me! I actually found it a little funny when orgolove thought you were calling him a fool.
I give the guy credit because after he was told to calm down, he immediately did and made a game relevant post. Most people who get banned for rage aren't able to just turn around like that.
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On January 16 2011 09:02 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 07:51 deconduo wrote:
Mr. Wiggles and chaokel modkilled in Don't lose yo mafia. Ummm your game isn't following the ban list.... Chaoser is in the game and he is still on the ban list until XXXV ends at the very least.
Hmm, I intended to follow the banlist, but chaoser must have slipped through. My bad. He was very very close to being modkilled in my game as well.
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On January 16 2011 10:22 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 09:02 Qatol wrote:On January 16 2011 07:51 deconduo wrote:
Mr. Wiggles and chaokel modkilled in Don't lose yo mafia. Ummm your game isn't following the ban list.... Chaoser is in the game and he is still on the ban list until XXXV ends at the very least. Hmm, I intended to follow the banlist, but chaoser must have slipped through. My bad. He was very very close to being modkilled in my game as well.
Yep it happens. If people feel your modkills should be added, I will, but I personally prefer the idea that the ban list only applies if there are no banned players in your game (and you want your game to follow the ban list, of course). I would also probably treat this situation a little differently if your game wasn't a mini game. But I feel like the line has to be drawn somewhere.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Now that TL XXXVI is coming up, may I ask for a closure on my situation, so that I can sign up for that one? I humbly present my final case:
1. The situation
I joined in TL XXXV as a town. I was very, very busy during the new years season, and thus I was not very active in the first few days of the game. Flamewheel noticed this, and during our PM exchanges, he asked that I participate more in future. Original Message From flamewheel:
And do try to be more active if you sign up for a game!
I felt really bad as a mafia player. He was trying hard to bring an enjoyable game to us, but was plagued by inactivity, part of which was my fault. I wanted to make the game worthwhile.
So, starting about 4-5 days ago, I tried my best to be as active as I could. I spent a lot of time and effort, and in the process, became a lot more emotionally invested and passionate about the game.
Before the last day of the game, I posted what was perhaps my longest analysis so far, and begged the town to vote for the players that, I believed, were reds. In my mind, I had almost zero doubt about the identity of one of my targets. Considering that the count of players were extremely close between the two sides, this vote would be critical.
Unfortunately, Pandain, whom had previously led the charge of many wasted votes in the same game, disagreed with me. Somehow, he was able to convince a majority of other players to switch, and again the next vote was wasted without giving practically any information.
After the analysis I spent so much time on got ignored, I couldn't help but feel extremely frustrated. I spent a total of two posts directly raging at Pandain.
Immediately afterwards, I went right back into the game, and added more posts that tried to analyze the situation and further the town's cause. In the meanwhile, several members from outside the game entered the thread and started to make... unrelated comments, to put it nicely. While responding to those comments, I still tried to keep the game going, working on convincing Shockeyy and others to vote and not lose hope.
While this was going on, Incognito first decided to give me a warning, based on the two rage posts. Immediately after, he changed his mind and just immediately modkilled me, ignoring the directions as was listed in the OP of that game, which declared that players would be given one warning before being modkilled.
2. The arguments
The purpose of a ban
As Qatol, the caretaker of the banlist mentioned, the mechanic of banning someone from mafia games exists to stop certain people from having a negative effect on the mafia environment, and in the end, make the game as fun as possible.
Will banning me serve either of the two purposes?
1. Objectively, would two posts in a subforum with threads that easily reach several thousand posts, really have such a huge impact on the whole mafia environment?
2. Would banning me due to something that happened because of my activity, help make the game fun and interesting?
3. Continuing from #2, if you ban me because I was passionate about the game (in two posts), isn't that just encouraging later players to be inactive and not be passionate about a game, and just barely post in a game to avoid being modkilled?
I did everything I could to make the game more fun, interesting and challenging, after receiving a personal request from the host of the game. I spent many hours of effort analyzing and trying to convince other participants in the game. In a game plagued with inactives, I tried to be as active as possible. The two posts were merely a direct result of seeing this increased personal investment going to waste, and the frustration that came from it. In the end, even during the heat of the moment, I was trying everything in my disposal to make the game more active and interesting.
The question of Fairness
In the two posts of rage, I called Pandain some expletives. Afterwards, I did not spam the thread any further with the rage. And now A ban is being requested due to the two posts.
We've seen plenty of times when other players, even veteran players, rage over several posts, declaring that the game is over, or even worse. Even in TL XXXV, annul, after his lynch, raged and called out for the town to expect the mafia to concede soon.
And yet, there was barely any ruffle among the players in the game. In fact, not even a warning was given in this thread for many of the activities of other players with the same degree of rage as what I had shown in my two posts.
Is it really equitable treatment to have me, a comparatively new player, be axed due to two posts, when there are plenty of examples of other more experienced players escaping unscathed for similar offenses?
The Language
Qatol took offense to some of the expletives I posted in one of my two rage posts. I'll quote citi.zen here:On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily.
I did not threaten anyone, nor did I insist on calling anyone expletives beyond those two rage posts. I, just as anyone, am human - a human being who can get angry and say things in the heat of emotion. Objectively, anyone can say things they regret, when pushed hard enough.
Again. The rage was over two posts - I went back immediately to the game afterwards, and any later posts that appear like rage were merely responses to personally demeaning comments that were made by other members who were not even part of the game.
Proper Procedures
As mentioned above, I was entitled to a warning before being modkilled. However, Incognito modkilled me immediately without giving a warning and looking at my responses after that. And that was over a page after the rage, during which I was busy analyzing and talking with other players of the game, such as Shockeyy, regarding the game itself.
3. Words of support
These comments have all been made without any solicitation from me.
From Pandain, to whom I had directed the two rage posts, and is the most qualified to feel hurt:
On January 15 2011 13:44 Pandain wrote:
I don't see why orgolove should really get a ban. He was just being mad at how he perceived a "dumb town". It's like what I felt in...I forgot the specifics. But I was being dumb(again) and felt that everyone was following RoL's analysis of aidnai, which i felt was complete BS. Turns out he was right later on, but then I was so just...disillusioned I had to get myself replaced.
Just warn him imo
From LSB, one of the co-hosts of the next game I would like to be in, TL XXXVI, as well as hosts of numerous other games:
On January 15 2011 13:36 LSB wrote:
I support orgolove, but maybe just a warning, I know that others made rage posts and got of with a warning and I don't see any reason why Orgo should be treated differently
From RebirthOfLegend, another regular host of TL Mafia:
On January 16 2011 16:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
meh if my opinion matters at all for it I would just have a mild warning on Orgo's account. Just in the future avoid personal attacks at all. When I play I can be kind of aggressive and call what people say stupid but I never deal any serious personal attacks.
I would say give him a warning and if he gets modkilled because of personal attacks in another game it is an extended ban, he is right about our banlist mainly meant to keep in line players who were over the top game disruptive IE: Folca/Showtime!/etc people who seriously fucked up and/or were complete assholes and those who just joined games then never played. I don't think Orgo really qualifies as either.
From a mod, and one of the players of the game I had been modkilled in:
On January 15 2011 18:00 TheMango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 15:48 TheMango wrote:
And btw, if you were in my situation, and got a hornet's nest of players who got onto your case, including a MOD that called all your hours-long efforts nothing but crazed ranting, then I'm sure you would also feel like quitting, at least temporarily.
I don't see anything wrong with what I posted. Sorry you took it personally, but I feel what I wrote is well in the spirit and rules of the game. Especially since your analysis was totally off base and wrong  You on the other hand, you took it way too far with your curse laden rant and your over the top replies to people criticizing you. At a certain point, you have to step back and realize this is just a game. There's no reason why you cant be both competitive and civil. btw, I don't think you should be perma banned, but this should act as a last warning.
And one of the several members who had posted in the thread after the rage posts, without actually being players:
On January 16 2011 09:24 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 16:32 Fishball wrote:On January 15 2011 15:54 orgolove wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:but if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL, you can't get away with it here. If you're going to focus on the word "cunt" that much: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98457¤tpage=49#972long post. + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2009 00:34 Elemenope wrote:Ok, listen up cunts. Ver has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of giving us new information. All of it is just information ALREADY STATED. No one gives a fuck who found Clazz or who found Kuja. Fuck, if Kuja weren't such a dumbfuck and turned out to be townie, you guys would start crying because half of you already role claimed to Ver based on UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION. Ver *still* hasn't posted these mafia names. And for what? "THEY'LL IMPLICATE OTHER PEOPLE!" Ok, gee. If it were *anybody* other than Ace, L, Ver, all you cunts would be saying "WE CAN'T TRUST HIM, RELEASE THESE NAMES." You guys are playing with Ver's balls so much. The only reason Ver can get away with this is because he's a big name. "Hey, let me write a long post and not explain anything new and rehash information while saying I also have new mafia names while not stating who these mafia are, even after they can't kill me or these people that would be compromised". Jesus fucking christ, how the fuck can you guys even role claim after nothing new was said. Ver brought *nothing new* to the table at all. He's giving us a "Hey, trust me, I have mafia, not going to say who, but trust me, I'm a big name". You guys are backwards like hell. Asking Ace to role claim based on his Clazziquai information, yet you guys blindly trust Ver based on his.....old information? At least Ace fucking did something to help the town so far. "OH BUT THEY'RE GOING TO RAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY" Jesus christ this is a fucking non-issue. It's 3 people max that can rally. Oh look at that, we have at least 2 vigs, and we have a lynch tomorrow. HOLY SHIT PROBLEM SOLVED. They can't get other people into their doomed 3 person circle as everybody else can be like "hey man, this is a long PM explaining why I'm mafia, trust me, everybody seems to do it" "BUT MY ASSOCIATES AND FRIENDS ETC ARE GOING TO DIIIIIIIIIE BY THESE MAFIA IF NAMES ARE RELEASED" So we trade 3 people for 3 mafia when they're already going to be down 4. So you think there's 20 mafia or something? They get no new information, no new rallying point. In comparison, we can get our own communication web set up based upon the veracity of your claims of these mafia which means coordination between remaining power roles unlike mafia, who are boned because of Kuja and going to be down 7 mafia by 4th night if you were to release these names. "BUT HE'S VER, HE DOESN'T NEED TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF" Right. Jesus christ, you guys are like fucking sheep every single goddamn game. Why you guys don't have the word 'doubt' in your vocabulary is beyond me. Moving on to a different subject: Motbob's roleclaim. This is so fucking far out there, I am seriously fucking doubting it. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:21 motbob wrote:
The mafia thought he still had me convinced he was NKVD. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:27 motbob wrote:
Well Ver has a good reason for keeping his mafias a secret, but I guess I don't. It's RebirthofLegend. Ok. Anybody who got the PM, which is everybody in the WHOLE MAFIA FORUM it seems since even fucking CALLER GOT THE PM, knows that it didn't REMOTELY IMPLY NKVD AT FUCKING ALL. Show nested quote +yo mannn I just used my role check today to check you, and you came back as a Ukrainian too, I was trying to figure out how Caller wrote clues and I guess I got it (or got lucky rofl) just PM me back so we can get this Ukrainian death machine rolling, the sooner we organized the better. If you don't want to PM me back yet, I suggest using your power and checking me too. I can surely see what is going on through medic motbob's mind: "OH SHIT, THIS GUY IS CLAIMING TO BE UKRAINIAN AND IS CALLING ME UKRAINIAN. HE IS SURE DOING A GOOD JOB CONVINCING ME HE'S NKVD. LET ME ROLE CLAIM TO HIM." Like come the fuck on. I'm going to restate it: Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:28 Elemenope wrote:
I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.
No one can possibly be so fucking moronic as to role claim to this guy. YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THE EXCUSE OF NOT READING THE THREAD SINCE HE HAD NO MENTION OF NKVD OR IMPLICATION OF SUCH IN THAT FUCKING PM. And somehow you protecting Ver makes Ver legit. Because mafia can't target other mafia. BECAUSE HE GOT SAVED TWICE! Because that second save is full of as much truth as that first save. OK BRB GOING TO ROLE CLAIM TO VER. How the fuck you're even still alive after night 2 if you truly did R/C to someone is beyond me since RoL could've had someone else kill you. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS, JUST FUCKING QUIT THE GAME. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 20:20 Shikyo wrote:
I don't get some things still. Elemenope, for example. Suggesting that everyone is scum? Could be a mafia ploy to cause confusion, or it could be a method to make people ignore you. But it could also just be for the sake of bragging that you were right in the case you were a townie. Not anywhere close. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 18:25 coltrane wrote:
We need info. Stop trolling the thread.
Funny, since the guy you guys seem to blindly trust is lacking in the whole giving the town information department. There has been quite many lulz going on in these 3 days, but it's more becoming of a facepalm as I see people blindly trusting others based upon word simply because they want an easy way out of thinking. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DOUBT AND THINK, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. And I see no Elemenope in your ban list. Oh, and this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=4933541On April 01 2010 05:06 XeliN wrote:
It got to me more than I would care to admit but in my eyes he is a massive cunt for doing so and I'm not even religious Though Xelin's on your banlist, he wasn't banned directly after this game. FInally. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119295¤tpage=2#23On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily. etc etc. Also: On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:
if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL Do you want me to go through the whole site and look for every instance when FakeSteve said the word "cunt"? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=3398¤tpage=37#967On February 20 2007 05:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
STOP BEING A CUNT KENNETH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23676¤tpage=26#513On February 21 2005 09:31 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2005 09:27 Sw1tCh wrote:
Steve, cork your cry-hole. Dredg > you besides the fact that your taste in music is pathetic you're an abrasive cunt and i'm better than you at everything http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=93792¤tpage=14#264On May 24 2009 17:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
last night at this italian place some drunk dumpy norwegian cunt assaulted nvnplatypus and i with her repulsive personality Oh wait, since you quoted manifesto7, I can use the search too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=71609#15On May 18 2008 09:04 Manifesto7 wrote:
And we dont know why the stream died at first... it is just the software acting like a cunt Point is, anyone can say words like that in the heat of the moment. You can't just make that the sole basis of a ban. You realize that I spent only -two- posts raging. The primary cause of the rage was because 1. flamewheel asked me to be more active 2. I became more active, and in the meantime became a lot more invested into the game So. when I saw the whole town sheep repeatedly towards a player who did not play well, to put it lightly, I couldn't help but feel frustrated. Did I spam the thread with this rage? No. You have to realize this - Immediately after I posted the two rages, I went right back into the game, like any good player would, and tried to get the town back on track. Any sidetracked posts after this were directly caused by the nonparticipating outsiders barging in and derailing the thread. EVEN THEN. I still tried to keep going, and did my best to convince Shockeyy inbetween answering the hornet's nest of... demeaning remarks. I was called a fool and an egomaniac, and then my entire efforts for the past two days were dismissed by a MOD as crazy raving. How can anyone stay calm in such a situation? Pandain, to whom I had directed the two posts of rage and thus is the one with the greatest say in my "punishment," does not want me to be banned (and this was through no request by me - you can ask a mod if you wish.) Further, even though the OP of the mafia I participated in clearly states that I will be given a warning before being modkilled, the hosts ignored this and immediately struck me out. Please look at the situation objectively. I don't deserve a ban for this. No one called you a fool. On January 14 2011 23:44 Fishball wrote:Not exactly game related. Edited after reading page 74. + Show Spoiler +On January 14 2011 15:22 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 15:09 Fishball wrote:On January 14 2011 15:08 Foolishness wrote:
I wish that my ego was so tainted that I had to resort to calling people cunts and dumbass just so I can repress the realization that there might be people on the "internet" who are superior in intelligence than me. Fools have no ego. I don't understand this shit. Pandain directly caused the lynch of a blue and three greens. And he's the direct cause of missing a lynch on a 100% clear red, and will most probably lead to town's loss. And yet, you're calling -me- a fool?. Huh? I was poking fun at Foolishness. I don't follow the thread, and I only read it when a Day/Night post is up. I don't think I would ever want to divert any of my attention to you orgolove. Who the hell calls another person a fool these days anyways. Don't worry Fishball, I understood that you were poking fun at me! I actually found it a little funny when orgolove thought you were calling him a fool. I give the guy credit because after he was told to calm down, he immediately did and made a game relevant post. Most people who get banned for rage aren't able to just turn around like that.
And coagulation, author of such popular threads as The Walking Derp, and player of many Mafia games:
On January 15 2011 12:18 Coagulation wrote:
no dont perma orgolove
his anger pleases me.
4. Closing Words
As shown above, banning me goes against the purpose of a banlist - to promote a fun and interesting mafia game environment. Further, it is unfair to ban me for this when the modkill was for just two posts of rage of a degree which other members were not punished for. Proper procedures were not followed by the modkills, and the language contained within weren't threats, but rather something anyone can say if pushed hard enough. Finally, numerous members have shown words of support for my cause, including Pandain, who was the primary subject of my two rage posts, LSB and RebirthOfLegend, hosts of several other mafia games, and TheMango, a mod in TL. I hope this has convinced you to not ban me, and allow me to participate in TL XXXVI and other games.
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United States1966 Posts
if only you put this much effort into your mafia games... lol
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
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meh if my opinion matters at all for it I would just have a mild warning on Orgo's account. Just in the future avoid personal attacks at all. When I play I can be kind of aggressive and call what people say stupid but I never deal any serious personal attacks.
I would say give him a warning and if he gets modkilled because of personal attacks in another game it is an extended ban, he is right about our banlist mainly meant to keep in line players who were over the top game disruptive IE: Folca/Showtime!/etc people who seriously fucked up and/or were complete assholes and those who just joined games then never played. I don't think Orgo really qualifies as either.
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On January 09 2011 18:33 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 18:17 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hmm I guess a 1 game on Chaoser is fine. I mean I usually think the ban list exists to punish someone who is chronically inactive. I'd say give him a warning because he is consistently not an inactive player but now there is no point since he is already serving out one of his bans. I think maybe we should implement some sort of consistent inactive is rewarded. Like for every 10 games you play where you don't get modkilled you get 1 game mistake pass. I think that works better for rewarding good players and not arbitrarily banning people we would prefer to be in our games. The first thing that comes to mind with a policy like this is keeping track of all of those players would be a nightmare. I agree that Chaoser might be getting the short end of the stick, but we're trying to make long term policy here. Are you advocating something more along the lines of what BC was saying?
Sorry, and to respond to this yes. I was thinking something along what BC had said. I mean I was modkilled in a game before but it wasn't my fault I had gotten kicked out of my shitty apartment on 2 days notice and worked 35 hours a week while going to school for 20 and it happened around finals time. Thus I got modkilled because I had no internet and no way of accessing TL mafia apart from maybe sending a PM explaining what happened to you iirc? Anyway my point being is would I REALLY deserve a ban/warning for something that wasn't within my control? On top of that I probably have around 20 games played and am generally one of the more active players. So why would you punish a host who wants to follow the ban list by telling them they can't have players who are known to be consistently active because of some rules which are meant to keep out scrubs, not to punish our player base.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
On January 16 2011 16:20 orgolove wrote:Now that TL XXXVI is coming up, may I ask for a closure on my situation, so that I can sign up for that one? I humbly present my final case: 1. The situationI joined in TL XXXV as a town. I was very, very busy during the new years season, and thus I was not very active in the first few days of the game. Flamewheel noticed this, and during our PM exchanges, he asked that I participate more in future. Show nested quote +Original Message From flamewheel:
And do try to be more active if you sign up for a game! I felt really bad as a mafia player. He was trying hard to bring an enjoyable game to us, but was plagued by inactivity, part of which was my fault. I wanted to make the game worthwhile. So, starting about 4-5 days ago, I tried my best to be as active as I could. I spent a lot of time and effort, and in the process, became a lot more emotionally invested and passionate about the game. Before the last day of the game, I posted what was perhaps my longest analysis so far, and begged the town to vote for the players that, I believed, were reds. In my mind, I had almost zero doubt about the identity of one of my targets. Considering that the count of players were extremely close between the two sides, this vote would be critical. Unfortunately, Pandain, whom had previously led the charge of many wasted votes in the same game, disagreed with me. Somehow, he was able to convince a majority of other players to switch, and again the next vote was wasted without giving practically any information. After the analysis I spent so much time on got ignored, I couldn't help but feel extremely frustrated. I spent a total of two posts directly raging at Pandain.
While I'm glad you decided to start spending more time on the game / posting more, frustration does not merit that kind of behavior. I notice that the word "two" keeps being underlined, bolded--given importance, in essence. While two may be a trivial number, for the most part TL is run on the case of "sometimes one is too many". Yes, it's not a perfect system since moderation is manned by humans, but the number itself isn't any sort of justification.
Others have been very frustrated in the past, yes. But instead of calling people expletives in thread, please take it up in private with the host if you have problems. In XXX there was an incident where a player was feeling very unhappy about the situation, but you didn't see him barraging the thread (or even overly mentioning the situation) with posts.
Immediately afterwards, I went right back into the game, and added more posts that tried to analyze the situation and further the town's cause. In the meanwhile, several members from outside the game entered the thread and started to make... unrelated comments, to put it nicely. While responding to those comments, I still tried to keep the game going, working on convincing Shockeyy and others to vote and not lose hope.
While this was going on, Incognito first decided to give me a warning, based on the two rage posts. Immediately after, he changed his mind and just immediately modkilled me, ignoring the directions as was listed in the OP of that game, which declared that players would be given one warning before being modkilled.
A host has the final word on anything in the game. I don't recall removing it from the original post, and for this "not-by-the-book" action I will apologize for that. However, be it as it may that you did not receive a "warning" (in the sense that it was immediately redacted) you have, however, received your warning (and a ban) for an altercation in thread in a previous game. While the OP does say warnings should and would be given, hypothetically should a person be able to get away with one volatile/disruptive/expletive outburst per game?
2. The arguments
The purpose of a ban
As Qatol, the caretaker of the banlist mentioned, the mechanic of banning someone from mafia games exists to stop certain people from having a negative effect on the mafia environment, and in the end, make the game as fun as possible.
Will banning me serve either of the two purposes?
1. Objectively, would two posts in a subforum with threads that easily reach several thousand posts, really have such a huge impact on the whole mafia environment?
2. Would banning me due to something that happened because of my activity, help make the game fun and interesting?
3. Continuing from #2, if you ban me because I was passionate about the game (in two posts), isn't that just encouraging later players to be inactive and not be passionate about a game, and just barely post in a game to avoid being modkilled?
I did everything I could to make the game more fun, interesting and challenging, after receiving a personal request from the host of the game. I spent many hours of effort analyzing and trying to convince other participants in the game. In a game plagued with inactives, I tried to be as active as possible. The two posts were merely a direct result of seeing this increased personal investment going to waste, and the frustration that came from it. In the end, even during the heat of the moment, I was trying everything in my disposal to make the game more active and interesting.
I do say two posts can objectively change an atmosphere. The number again is subjective (based on the immense spam factor imbued in this place) but certain posts have the power to create strife between people. Quoting Incognito again:
Incognito
3:59:31 AM
since i wont be here, and qatol wants this resolved sooner rather than later i'll just say that orgolove is a problem case in the past
3:59:34 AM
read: insane mafia
4:00:10 AM
i have no idea what you pmed him, so I dont know the context of your "please post more" PM
4:00:58 AM
my feeling is that it doesnt matter whether he came back and posted a lot or not, that behavior is just unacceptable
4:01:08 AM
but its up to you
4:01:42 AM
if it were me i wouldn't invite him back to play in another game but if other hosts dont care im not going to oppose that
4:01:49 AM
i wouldn't play in a game wiht him, but whatever
Over the course of games, sometimes you grow to like somebody. Sometimes you grow to dislike somebody. Whatever the case, sometimes dislike grows intense enough that you will refuse to play in a game with another person. Or you will actively just try to ruin their game (Ace trying to kill BM anybody? Of course, can't really say how much of that was a joke but still...). The point is that it's not the number of posts, it's the message in the post.
Incognito didn't modkill you for your activity. He modkilled you for your behavior. You would have been perfectly fine without the rage, and the game would have continued and been better off with your game-related posts.
Point three is an overshadowing problem in this subforum. Games alternate between intense periods of spam and dry spells where nobody posts. Once again, your rage posts have nothing to do with the activity of the game, so that's irrelevant.
The question of Fairness
In the two posts of rage, I called Pandain some expletives. Afterwards, I did not spam the thread any further with the rage. And now A ban is being requested due to the two posts.
We've seen plenty of times when other players, even veteran players, rage over several posts, declaring that the game is over, or even worse. Even in TL XXXV, annul, after his lynch, raged and called out for the town to expect the mafia to concede soon.
And yet, there was barely any ruffle among the players in the game. In fact, not even a warning was given in this thread for many of the activities of other players with the same degree of rage as what I had shown in my two posts.
Is it really equitable treatment to have me, a comparatively new player, be axed due to two posts, when there are plenty of examples of other more experienced players escaping unscathed for similar offenses?
Yes, TL is inherently unfair. Older (you could say veteran) posters get slightly more leniency. And yes, once again TL is inherently not perfect with its moderation. Still, the best we can do now is to move forward from this. Precedent is set from the past, but if something needs to be changed it will be changed. I wouldn't do anything to what happened then, but if it happens in the future it will be dealt with according to whatever becomes of this and situations similar to this one.
The LanguageQatol took offense to some of the expletives I posted in one of my two rage posts. I'll quote citi.zen here: Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily. I did not threaten anyone, nor did I insist on calling anyone expletives beyond those two rage posts. I, just as anyone, am human - a human being who can get angry and say things in the heat of emotion. Objectively, anyone can say things they regret, when pushed hard enough. Again. The rage was over two posts - I went back immediately to the game afterwards, and any later posts that appear like rage were merely responses to personally demeaning comments that were made by other members who were not even part of the game.
I can't fault too much for the later posts, and your two rage posts in question have already been talked about enough.
Proper ProceduresAs mentioned above, I was entitled to a warning before being modkilled. However, Incognito modkilled me immediately without giving a warning and looking at my responses after that. And that was over a page after the rage, during which I was busy analyzing and talking with other players of the game, such as Shockeyy, regarding the game itself. 3. Words of supportThese comments have all been made without any solicitation from me. From Pandain, to whom I had directed the two rage posts, and is the most qualified to feel hurt: Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 13:44 Pandain wrote:
I don't see why orgolove should really get a ban. He was just being mad at how he perceived a "dumb town". It's like what I felt in...I forgot the specifics. But I was being dumb(again) and felt that everyone was following RoL's analysis of aidnai, which i felt was complete BS. Turns out he was right later on, but then I was so just...disillusioned I had to get myself replaced.
Just warn him imo From LSB, one of the co-hosts of the next game I would like to be in, TL XXXVI, as well as hosts of numerous other games: Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 13:36 LSB wrote:
I support orgolove, but maybe just a warning, I know that others made rage posts and got of with a warning and I don't see any reason why Orgo should be treated differently From RebirthOfLegend, another regular host of TL Mafia: Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 16:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
meh if my opinion matters at all for it I would just have a mild warning on Orgo's account. Just in the future avoid personal attacks at all. When I play I can be kind of aggressive and call what people say stupid but I never deal any serious personal attacks.
I would say give him a warning and if he gets modkilled because of personal attacks in another game it is an extended ban, he is right about our banlist mainly meant to keep in line players who were over the top game disruptive IE: Folca/Showtime!/etc people who seriously fucked up and/or were complete assholes and those who just joined games then never played. I don't think Orgo really qualifies as either. From a mod, and one of the players of the game I had been modkilled in: Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 18:00 TheMango wrote:On January 15 2011 15:48 TheMango wrote:
And btw, if you were in my situation, and got a hornet's nest of players who got onto your case, including a MOD that called all your hours-long efforts nothing but crazed ranting, then I'm sure you would also feel like quitting, at least temporarily.
I don't see anything wrong with what I posted. Sorry you took it personally, but I feel what I wrote is well in the spirit and rules of the game. Especially since your analysis was totally off base and wrong You on the other hand, you took it way too far with your curse laden rant and your over the top replies to people criticizing you. At a certain point, you have to step back and realize this is just a game. There's no reason why you cant be both competitive and civil. btw, I don't think you should be perma banned, but this should act as a last warning. And one of the several members who had posted in the thread after the rage posts, without actually being players: Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 09:24 Foolishness wrote:On January 15 2011 16:32 Fishball wrote:On January 15 2011 15:54 orgolove wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:but if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL, you can't get away with it here. If you're going to focus on the word "cunt" that much: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=98457¤tpage=49#972long post. + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2009 00:34 Elemenope wrote:Ok, listen up cunts. Ver has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in terms of giving us new information. All of it is just information ALREADY STATED. No one gives a fuck who found Clazz or who found Kuja. Fuck, if Kuja weren't such a dumbfuck and turned out to be townie, you guys would start crying because half of you already role claimed to Ver based on UNVERIFIABLE INFORMATION. Ver *still* hasn't posted these mafia names. And for what? "THEY'LL IMPLICATE OTHER PEOPLE!" Ok, gee. If it were *anybody* other than Ace, L, Ver, all you cunts would be saying "WE CAN'T TRUST HIM, RELEASE THESE NAMES." You guys are playing with Ver's balls so much. The only reason Ver can get away with this is because he's a big name. "Hey, let me write a long post and not explain anything new and rehash information while saying I also have new mafia names while not stating who these mafia are, even after they can't kill me or these people that would be compromised". Jesus fucking christ, how the fuck can you guys even role claim after nothing new was said. Ver brought *nothing new* to the table at all. He's giving us a "Hey, trust me, I have mafia, not going to say who, but trust me, I'm a big name". You guys are backwards like hell. Asking Ace to role claim based on his Clazziquai information, yet you guys blindly trust Ver based on his.....old information? At least Ace fucking did something to help the town so far. "OH BUT THEY'RE GOING TO RAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY" Jesus christ this is a fucking non-issue. It's 3 people max that can rally. Oh look at that, we have at least 2 vigs, and we have a lynch tomorrow. HOLY SHIT PROBLEM SOLVED. They can't get other people into their doomed 3 person circle as everybody else can be like "hey man, this is a long PM explaining why I'm mafia, trust me, everybody seems to do it" "BUT MY ASSOCIATES AND FRIENDS ETC ARE GOING TO DIIIIIIIIIE BY THESE MAFIA IF NAMES ARE RELEASED" So we trade 3 people for 3 mafia when they're already going to be down 4. So you think there's 20 mafia or something? They get no new information, no new rallying point. In comparison, we can get our own communication web set up based upon the veracity of your claims of these mafia which means coordination between remaining power roles unlike mafia, who are boned because of Kuja and going to be down 7 mafia by 4th night if you were to release these names. "BUT HE'S VER, HE DOESN'T NEED TO EXPLAIN HIMSELF" Right. Jesus christ, you guys are like fucking sheep every single goddamn game. Why you guys don't have the word 'doubt' in your vocabulary is beyond me. Moving on to a different subject: Motbob's roleclaim. This is so fucking far out there, I am seriously fucking doubting it. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:21 motbob wrote:
The mafia thought he still had me convinced he was NKVD. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:27 motbob wrote:
Well Ver has a good reason for keeping his mafias a secret, but I guess I don't. It's RebirthofLegend. Ok. Anybody who got the PM, which is everybody in the WHOLE MAFIA FORUM it seems since even fucking CALLER GOT THE PM, knows that it didn't REMOTELY IMPLY NKVD AT FUCKING ALL. Show nested quote +yo mannn I just used my role check today to check you, and you came back as a Ukrainian too, I was trying to figure out how Caller wrote clues and I guess I got it (or got lucky rofl) just PM me back so we can get this Ukrainian death machine rolling, the sooner we organized the better. If you don't want to PM me back yet, I suggest using your power and checking me too. I can surely see what is going on through medic motbob's mind: "OH SHIT, THIS GUY IS CLAIMING TO BE UKRAINIAN AND IS CALLING ME UKRAINIAN. HE IS SURE DOING A GOOD JOB CONVINCING ME HE'S NKVD. LET ME ROLE CLAIM TO HIM." Like come the fuck on. I'm going to restate it: Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 15:28 Elemenope wrote:
I'm going to have to call bullshit on this.
No one can possibly be so fucking moronic as to role claim to this guy. YOU CAN'T EVEN USE THE EXCUSE OF NOT READING THE THREAD SINCE HE HAD NO MENTION OF NKVD OR IMPLICATION OF SUCH IN THAT FUCKING PM. And somehow you protecting Ver makes Ver legit. Because mafia can't target other mafia. BECAUSE HE GOT SAVED TWICE! Because that second save is full of as much truth as that first save. OK BRB GOING TO ROLE CLAIM TO VER. How the fuck you're even still alive after night 2 if you truly did R/C to someone is beyond me since RoL could've had someone else kill you. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS, JUST FUCKING QUIT THE GAME. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 20:20 Shikyo wrote:
I don't get some things still. Elemenope, for example. Suggesting that everyone is scum? Could be a mafia ploy to cause confusion, or it could be a method to make people ignore you. But it could also just be for the sake of bragging that you were right in the case you were a townie. Not anywhere close. Show nested quote +On August 04 2009 18:25 coltrane wrote:
We need info. Stop trolling the thread.
Funny, since the guy you guys seem to blindly trust is lacking in the whole giving the town information department. There has been quite many lulz going on in these 3 days, but it's more becoming of a facepalm as I see people blindly trusting others based upon word simply because they want an easy way out of thinking. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DOUBT AND THINK, DON'T PLAY THE FUCKING GAME. And I see no Elemenope in your ban list. Oh, and this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=4933541On April 01 2010 05:06 XeliN wrote:
It got to me more than I would care to admit but in my eyes he is a massive cunt for doing so and I'm not even religious Though Xelin's on your banlist, he wasn't banned directly after this game. FInally. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119295¤tpage=2#23On April 13 2010 01:37 citi.zen wrote:
A couple of quick comments on the tone/language issue:
1. Dealing with dismissive language is a big part of the game. I have no problem with JeeJee now for example, despite all that was said during the last day of the WoW mafia game (including the lying cunt bit). Same thing with people doing it on purpose in any other mafia game - I understand what they did and think it was a good strategy after the fact. This is a good area to improve for me personally - I've generally been quite good at catching reds but often got sidetracked unnecessarily. etc etc. Also: On January 15 2011 15:05 Qatol wrote:
if you can't get away with a post anywhere else on TL Do you want me to go through the whole site and look for every instance when FakeSteve said the word "cunt"? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=3398¤tpage=37#967On February 20 2007 05:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
STOP BEING A CUNT KENNETH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23676¤tpage=26#513On February 21 2005 09:31 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2005 09:27 Sw1tCh wrote:
Steve, cork your cry-hole. Dredg > you besides the fact that your taste in music is pathetic you're an abrasive cunt and i'm better than you at everything http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=93792¤tpage=14#264On May 24 2009 17:07 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
last night at this italian place some drunk dumpy norwegian cunt assaulted nvnplatypus and i with her repulsive personality Oh wait, since you quoted manifesto7, I can use the search too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=71609#15On May 18 2008 09:04 Manifesto7 wrote:
And we dont know why the stream died at first... it is just the software acting like a cunt Point is, anyone can say words like that in the heat of the moment. You can't just make that the sole basis of a ban. You realize that I spent only -two- posts raging. The primary cause of the rage was because 1. flamewheel asked me to be more active 2. I became more active, and in the meantime became a lot more invested into the game So. when I saw the whole town sheep repeatedly towards a player who did not play well, to put it lightly, I couldn't help but feel frustrated. Did I spam the thread with this rage? No. You have to realize this - Immediately after I posted the two rages, I went right back into the game, like any good player would, and tried to get the town back on track. Any sidetracked posts after this were directly caused by the nonparticipating outsiders barging in and derailing the thread. EVEN THEN. I still tried to keep going, and did my best to convince Shockeyy inbetween answering the hornet's nest of... demeaning remarks. I was called a fool and an egomaniac, and then my entire efforts for the past two days were dismissed by a MOD as crazy raving. How can anyone stay calm in such a situation? Pandain, to whom I had directed the two posts of rage and thus is the one with the greatest say in my "punishment," does not want me to be banned (and this was through no request by me - you can ask a mod if you wish.) Further, even though the OP of the mafia I participated in clearly states that I will be given a warning before being modkilled, the hosts ignored this and immediately struck me out. Please look at the situation objectively. I don't deserve a ban for this. No one called you a fool. On January 14 2011 23:44 Fishball wrote:Not exactly game related. Edited after reading page 74. + Show Spoiler +On January 14 2011 15:22 orgolove wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 15:09 Fishball wrote:On January 14 2011 15:08 Foolishness wrote:
I wish that my ego was so tainted that I had to resort to calling people cunts and dumbass just so I can repress the realization that there might be people on the "internet" who are superior in intelligence than me. Fools have no ego. I don't understand this shit. Pandain directly caused the lynch of a blue and three greens. And he's the direct cause of missing a lynch on a 100% clear red, and will most probably lead to town's loss. And yet, you're calling -me- a fool?. Huh? I was poking fun at Foolishness. I don't follow the thread, and I only read it when a Day/Night post is up. I don't think I would ever want to divert any of my attention to you orgolove. Who the hell calls another person a fool these days anyways. Don't worry Fishball, I understood that you were poking fun at me! I actually found it a little funny when orgolove thought you were calling him a fool. I give the guy credit because after he was told to calm down, he immediately did and made a game relevant post. Most people who get banned for rage aren't able to just turn around like that. And coagulation, author of such popular threads as The Walking Derp, and player of many Mafia games: Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 12:18 Coagulation wrote:
no dont perma orgolove
his anger pleases me.
A permanent is a bit harsh, yes. I apologize for skimming the posts and seeing this and reacting instantly, though perhaps I can play it off as "I've been so frustrated that people haven't been playing the game that I'm taking my time to set up and host and be around for stuff and since people are not doing stuff slash being angry at one another I'm also allowed to be human and write run-on sentences kittens." No, I kid. After thought, a permanent ban isn't what I'm looking for. Of course, TL does ban for things like "i fucking quit tl because that ____ shine beat bisu" and whatnot. Perfectly trivial, yes, and in the long run your behavior will mellow out hopefully.
4. Closing Words
As shown above, banning me goes against the purpose of a banlist - to promote a fun and interesting mafia game environment. Further, it is unfair to ban me for this when the modkill was for just two posts of rage of a degree which other members were not punished for. Proper procedures were not followed by the modkills, and the language contained within weren't threats, but rather something anyone can say if pushed hard enough. Finally, numerous members have shown words of support for my cause, including Pandain, who was the primary subject of my two rage posts, LSB and RebirthOfLegend, hosts of several other mafia games, and TheMango, a mod in TL. I hope this has convinced you to not ban me, and allow me to participate in TL XXXVI and other games.
It would be absolutely ludicrous for you to get off without some sort of reprimand. You've been modkilled before (and not for inactivity, mind you) and people take bans for much, much less. What it comes down to then is what should the punishment be? In my opinion (and I suppose jurisdiction in this case) a warning is too little, and a serious ban is too much.
Last time it was one game. This time around, I think it should be two, perhaps three. We give a one-game ban for the first count of inactivity, and three for the second. And seriously, inactivity is a much better thing to be modkilled for than this.
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Vatican City State1650 Posts
Qatol hasn't responded to my posts in the ban thread in two days... and the roster for the next game is filling up.
My reasons for hoping that I won't be banned are summarized here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=114622¤tpage=44#866
I think I made it obvious enough, but I promise to never do things like those two rage posts... And I'll do my best to provide enough analysis and discussion to make the game lively.
I asked LSB to allow me to participate in Mafia XXXVI. And he has allowed it...
Again, I will never, ever rage out like that again. Considering everything I had listed in that post, may I be let go this time? If anything like this happens again, I'll gladly take an even more extended ban.
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Protip: add teamliquid members on MSN so you can rage at them via chat.
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United States2186 Posts
If Orgolove had just raged out of the game ala scara after making the noted flame posts and left it at that I would have argued for a very long ban, especially considering his past history.
However given that a) he listened and tried to get back on track in the game b) Has seriously attempted to present his case and show that he can reform, he obviously isn't just one of those many people who just doesn't care.
Given this I'd be inclined to vote for a very serious warning. As in if he plays nice and is active with no serious problems then all good, but if he flames someone again to that degree then he gets a many game ban if not perma.
The ban list was created to punish the game-ruiners who simply don't care about what they are doing, which I don't think orgolove falls under. If he goes out of line again then it's over, but otherwise I'm okay with that 3rd chance to give him the honest chance to reform.
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On January 17 2011 14:00 orgolove wrote:
Qatol hasn't responded to my posts in the ban thread in two days... and the roster for the next game is filling up.
Incognito and/or flamewheel haven't made a formal post requesting exactly how many games they want yet (he said 2-3, but I would prefer an exact number). So I'm going to treat it as a request for at least 1 game. You have made your point of view abundantly clear, so I would prefer to hear from other people. If the ban is even a 1 game ban, I don't see a reason to move particularly quickly on this.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
The guy clearly wants to play mafia, at least let him play in Node's game and see how it goes. As Ver said, most people just rage quit, very few actually try to reform on their past mistakes.
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I other news, Mafia XXXV is over, so I'll make the decision final on chaoser.
Top 2 results are 1 game ban + warning and 2 game ban, with 1 game ban + warning winning 6-5. Additionally, 1 game ban has 4 vs. 3 game ban which has 1 vote and other which was above 2 games getting 1 vote. I assume that the 1 game ban people would vote for 1 game ban + warning and the people wanting more than 2 games would vote for 2 games if forced to decide between the two. In that case, 1 game ban + warning wins 10-7.
So the punishment for 2 simultaneous modkills will be a 1 game ban and then a warning after you are taken off the list.
Chaoser is removed from the ban list and given a warning.
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Because Mafia XXXV is over:
Kenpachi
tube
ghrur
Divinek
Have been removed
ohN's Banned Game Count is reduced to 1.
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After his actions in XXXV, I'm willing to let orgolove play in my game on a very short leash. If he is officially added to the ban list (as the final decision has yet to be reached, and there appears to be contention on adding him at all), he will not be allowed to play.
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New issue
Bill Murray wants to be reinstated.
Original Message From Bill Murray:
1) I would like to host mafia games
2) I will sit out 3 games, possibly more
3) this is only my second ban, I know it was behavioral and not modkill style, but playing in Haunted mafia was like ramming my head against a wall in terms of the amount of idiocy I had to deal with from that town. I know that I took things with Pandain a bit too far, but my modkill was both:
1) Personal
and
2) Mafia/Vampire-driven
1) DoctorHelvetica and I have a terrible history. I probably needed to be banned in the first game I ever played due to an after-death post relating to him. He has been hostile with me ever since that point, waiting to stab me in the back. Being the host of said game, he had a great opportunity to:
2) the opportunity lied in a mafia member finally being the "feather that broke the camel's back" when he pmed doctorh saying I was harassing him in PMs. Did I claim he was a vampire to him in PM? Maybe I said mafia.... sure... is that illegal? I would like to know what that guy flipped. I bet it was red.
Anyways, I would like to be unbanned and reinstated. If I need to make a more solid case, I will actually attempt to do so.
Original Message From Bill Murray:
furthermore, I would like to alert you that I have an account which can view the mafia thread. If you would like to judge my character based upon that account, and see if I can do better (I know I can), we can just ignore this altogether.
I want to play on a different account regardless of if I am reinstated. There are too many people who are openly hostile with this account, and it would really inhibit me from being lynched/lynching others properly.
The account in question is XXXX. If you wish me to not play on this website, I will oblige your request and remain playing solely on MafiaScum. If you wish me to simply host on here, and not play, that would be a solution as well..
He used that account to sign up for a game after he was banned, but I told him not to smurf his way into a game like that and he withdrew.
Well? What do people think?
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EPT
