|
On January 13 2011 07:21 Pandain wrote:Just voting people who turn out to be red doesn't mean you yourself are red. I disagree with the statement that Mango is mafia. I think he's town. Mango seems to me just a bored/new townie. He's uncomfortable with the online format, and has even told me several times he's just chillaxing cause he's pretty confused. I do think he is suspicious, but think IloveJonn/d3 would be a far better choice to lynch. There are a number of reasons why I think theMango is town, or at least why Ilovejonn/d3 are better lynches. 1.Mango has at least posted with decent content. He posts, and doesn't try to act like he's contributing really. He posts short things with short content. Mafia usually want to act like they're at least being pretty contributive. This is why d3 is suspicious. He's posted pretty long things, but they're all either repeats of what someone else said, about the format of the game, or after I force him to post. 2.Mango pmed me several times, on his own. Usually mafia don't want to be the one contributing, they want to just sit back and let the town not talk for 24 hours. Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 21:04 Jackal58 wrote:
Mango is red. I've been saying it for a week.
I wouldn't mind lynching our DT either. What a useless pos. Posts like this are the suspicious posts. First of all, why would you want to lynch our DT, at all!! Second of all, he just says "ya, mango is red" without saying anything about it. This is why Jackal is now suspicious to me. I agree with soulfire, but will be voting D_3 for the second lynch.
Basically I take this as meaning soulfire and D_3 are both going to flip green.
|
United States1966 Posts
voting Jackal58 and Pandain. Don't think both are mafia, but one is bound to be imo, and I have no idea who's mafia at this point. If we can vote off one mafia this day, it's a win for town.
|
|
|
Not sure what the say, honestly. Got overwhelmed with RL and work, and now that the game is inactive I don't feel like I have any educated fingers to point (I know it's largely my fault for the inactivity). Gonna observe some mafia games in the future before I join unprepared.
Voting for TheMango and Pandain off of a hunch; I definitely understand takin me out though.
|
|
|
Hey mafia, if your trying to frame me, do something better than "he voted wrong most of the time." When actually I wasn't. I was wrong on George clooney, dta, and LSB(but then again, originally I was in favor of saving him and then switched back when the bandwagon on brockett occured.)
But I was also right on many things. I thought annul was red, and got him lynched.
And really, when almost everyone has backed me/been with me with these lynches(see irc chats for example for how we collectively made the decisions), how can you say that this proves I'm mafia?
I admit I haven't been playing very well. It seems I have been much better at figuring out whos pro town rather than whos mafia. And really that makes since in the long run.
But while everyone else sits back, and lets the day go by, I generate new discussion. I actively analyze people. I take time out of my day to go through the posts of a specific person and post my feelings on them.
And if you don't think thats pro town then I don't know what your thought process is.
Me and Barundar had formed a town circle, whilst Brockett tried to cast doubt on it. Brockett, the mafia framer.
I made a new IRC chat, and that chat helped with the town and helped generate discussion.
I have been actively pming people, asking for their thoughts.
I want to hear why I'm mafia other than "his votes have been off."
|
Also wth are some of these reasons for people voting me
On January 08 2011 09:39 Jackal58 wrote:
I voted solely in the hopes of waking somebody up.
Ok here goes.
Pandain. He needs to go. I have no idea if he is red or blue. At this point it really makes no difference.This game has reached an impasse that is due mostly to his claim of being role blocked. No other blues are coming forward with info due in large part I believe to mistrust of Pandain.
If we lynch Pandain and he flips blue then red no longer knows who to role block. A DT without info is useless any ways. If our medics have been protecting him then they can move on to others and perhaps we can get a scum tell from who is still around after night.
If he flips red then I commend him for playing a masterful game to this point.
But he has to go.
All aboard the Pandain Pain Train!!!!!!
WOO WOO!!!!!! Chugachugachuga Chugachugachuga.
He's saying lynch a DT(he was under the impression I was dt, hey, mafia thought so too. coincidence?). But really, LYNCH A DT? He said "now we don't have to protect him. Plus he's useless". Theres a reason why medics would've protected dts!
On January 13 2011 10:38 Soulfire wrote:
Voting for TheMango and Pandain off of a hunch;
On January 13 2011 08:06 TheMango wrote:
voting Jackal58 and Pandain. Don't think both are mafia, but one is bound to be imo, and I have no idea who's mafia at this point. If we can vote off one mafia this day, it's a win for town.
Does anyone not see what's happening here....???
|
Also I want everyone on irc.
##bamboopalace
|
lol, I do find it funny that both Mango and Soulfire are voting on Pandain when both of them are being lynch targets.
|
DTS PLEASE POST..... .. We need these kills now...
|
On January 13 2011 10:53 Pandain wrote:Also wth are some of these reasons for people voting me Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 09:39 Jackal58 wrote:
I voted solely in the hopes of waking somebody up.
Ok here goes.
Pandain. He needs to go. I have no idea if he is red or blue. At this point it really makes no difference.This game has reached an impasse that is due mostly to his claim of being role blocked. No other blues are coming forward with info due in large part I believe to mistrust of Pandain.
If we lynch Pandain and he flips blue then red no longer knows who to role block. A DT without info is useless any ways. If our medics have been protecting him then they can move on to others and perhaps we can get a scum tell from who is still around after night.
If he flips red then I commend him for playing a masterful game to this point.
But he has to go.
All aboard the Pandain Pain Train!!!!!!
WOO WOO!!!!!! Chugachugachuga Chugachugachuga.
He's saying lynch a DT(he was under the impression I was dt, hey, mafia thought so too. coincidence?). But really, LYNCH A DT? He said "now we don't have to protect him. Plus he's useless". Theres a reason why medics would've protected dts! Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 10:38 Soulfire wrote:
Voting for TheMango and Pandain off of a hunch; Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 08:06 TheMango wrote:
voting Jackal58 and Pandain. Don't think both are mafia, but one is bound to be imo, and I have no idea who's mafia at this point. If we can vote off one mafia this day, it's a win for town. Does anyone not see what's happening here....???
Are DTs claiming to you? Do we have any DTs? My post was merely a reflection of my frustration of their apparent ineptitude.
I sent a PM earlier today to player in this game betting a donut that you would divert the vote from the 2 people that seemed to be o the fast track to a lynching. You did. You have done this repeatedly and with great success. Changing the vote to a townie. Even by virtue of dumb luck we should have lynched a red by now.I'm not joining any more of your diversions. I'm not counting on any of our DTs giving us info. This game is no longer an exercise in logic. It is now all about acting on our intuition. I'm not changing my vote. You are either red or blessed with really bad juju.
|
So, I did some math:
The split right now is likely 7 townies and 3 mafia. If we double mislynch today then we are down to 5 townies. Then, there are would be 2 NK so, barring a medic save or a vet hit we'd be down to 3. And then we have lost. Let me repeat that:
If we double mislynch today and there isn't a medic save or vet hit tonight, we lose.
What does this mean? Mafia are much more likely to strongly push lynches and take risks today, as they will win if they can lynch two towns. Therefore, we need to be very careful with orgolove's suggested plan. If orgolove is red, then he has just picked two green players that seem particularly scummy to lynch, hope town sheeps with him, and then when they both flip green there are no consequences because he just won the game for the reds. Because of this, we should try to lynch someone other than TheMango or Soulfire. I don't care which doesn't get lynched (orgolove's case for both is pretty convincing, to be honest) but only one of them at most should because if they are both town then orgolove just won the game for mafia. I also think it is suspicious that as soon as orgolove posted that, three other people immediately followed his lead (ilovejohn, Mr. Zergling, and Jackal58, although Jackal58 since changed one of his votes to pandain). This, to me, looks like mafia is jumping on a green bandwagon which means one or both of TheMango and Soulfire are probably green.
I still think Mr. Zergling is a likely red especially given the bandwagon, and ilovejohn and jackal58 are also much more on my radar now given their quick jumping on the bandwagon. So, I'm going to switch my second vote from soulfire to ilovejohn for now (since jackal58 at least changed his vote off of soulfire).
TLDR; Orgolove could be mafia, don't let both soulfire and TheMango die.
|
On January 13 2011 15:07 why wrote:
So, I did some math:
The split right now is likely 7 townies and 3 mafia. If we double mislynch today then we are down to 5 townies. Then, there are would be 2 NK so, barring a medic save or a vet hit we'd be down to 3. And then we have lost. Let me repeat that:
If we double mislynch today and there isn't a medic save or vet hit tonight, we lose.
What does this mean? Mafia are much more likely to strongly push lynches and take risks today, as they will win if they can lynch two towns. Therefore, we need to be very careful with orgolove's suggested plan. If orgolove is red, then he has just picked two green players that seem particularly scummy to lynch, hope town sheeps with him, and then when they both flip green there are no consequences because he just won the game for the reds. Because of this, we should try to lynch someone other than TheMango or Soulfire. I don't care which doesn't get lynched (orgolove's case for both is pretty convincing, to be honest) but only one of them at most should because if they are both town then orgolove just won the game for mafia. I also think it is suspicious that as soon as orgolove posted that, three other people immediately followed his lead (ilovejohn, Mr. Zergling, and Jackal58, although Jackal58 since changed one of his votes to pandain). This, to me, looks like mafia is jumping on a green bandwagon which means one or both of TheMango and Soulfire are probably green.
I still think Mr. Zergling is a likely red especially given the bandwagon, and ilovejohn and jackal58 are also much more on my radar now given their quick jumping on the bandwagon. So, I'm going to switch my second vote from soulfire to ilovejohn for now (since jackal58 at least changed his vote off of soulfire).
TLDR; Orgolove could be mafia, don't let both soulfire and TheMango die.
My vote for Soulfire and TheMango was just to see which of them Pandain was going to attempt to divert the vote from.
You could well be right about Orgolove. I could be right about Pandain. I sent Orgolove a PM yesterday regarding Paindains seemingly uncanny ability to switch the vote. It was sent to see if Pandain and Orgolove were talking to each other. At this point it does not appear that they are. Pandain did exactly what I expected him to do. If he and Orgo are both red I think they would both probably have switched up the vote to me. But it appears they are both aligned differently. I cannot say with any certainty which one is Red but one of them is. I think if we lynch them both today we will reduce reds kp and at the least extend the game through another day cycle that will allow one of our dts to claim and tell us who the remaining 2 mafia are. On that basis I am going to vote Orgolove and Pandain for lynch today.
|
Of course the downside to that plan is nobody will be posting in this thread but me. 
|
The badside is that our dts don't know how to play this game...
|
United States1966 Posts
Why do you guys keep assuming we have DT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but especially with the number of veteran/vigilantes we had so far, isn't it likely that we could have no DT's and maybe even only 2 mafia left? I think we shouldn't rely on DT's saving us and start thinking for ourselves. It's a bad mentality to use DT's as a crutch.
If we do have a DT, and he/they only happened to check people who are dead now, it wouldn't help to come out now anyway.
|
On January 14 2011 03:33 TheMango wrote:
Why do you guys keep assuming we have DT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but especially with the number of veteran/vigilantes we had so far, isn't it likely that we could have no DT's and maybe even only 2 mafia left? I think we shouldn't rely on DT's saving us and start thinking for ourselves. It's a bad mentality to use DT's as a crutch.
If we do have a DT, and he/they only happened to check people who are dead now, it wouldn't help to come out now anyway.
We have a dead Mafia Framer. That role would be superfluous without any detectives. I am going to assume we have at least 1. I will also assume we still have at least i doc and 1 mad hatter left. And 3 mafia reaming.
Nobody has made any role claims since day 2 when Pandain claimed to be a DT and then later recanted. I have no real idea who DT may be but now would be a good time to claim while we still have a doc in the mix.
So out of 10 remaining we have at least 3 blue and 3 red. And probably 4 green. I'm going to also assume that 2 of us have bombs planted on us.
This could be a messy lynch.
Other than Pandain and orgolove I still think the remaining Mafia are TheMango and Mr.Zergling.
|
On January 13 2011 22:12 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2011 15:07 why wrote:
So, I did some math:
The split right now is likely 7 townies and 3 mafia. If we double mislynch today then we are down to 5 townies. Then, there are would be 2 NK so, barring a medic save or a vet hit we'd be down to 3. And then we have lost. Let me repeat that:
If we double mislynch today and there isn't a medic save or vet hit tonight, we lose.
What does this mean? Mafia are much more likely to strongly push lynches and take risks today, as they will win if they can lynch two towns. Therefore, we need to be very careful with orgolove's suggested plan. If orgolove is red, then he has just picked two green players that seem particularly scummy to lynch, hope town sheeps with him, and then when they both flip green there are no consequences because he just won the game for the reds. Because of this, we should try to lynch someone other than TheMango or Soulfire. I don't care which doesn't get lynched (orgolove's case for both is pretty convincing, to be honest) but only one of them at most should because if they are both town then orgolove just won the game for mafia. I also think it is suspicious that as soon as orgolove posted that, three other people immediately followed his lead (ilovejohn, Mr. Zergling, and Jackal58, although Jackal58 since changed one of his votes to pandain). This, to me, looks like mafia is jumping on a green bandwagon which means one or both of TheMango and Soulfire are probably green.
I still think Mr. Zergling is a likely red especially given the bandwagon, and ilovejohn and jackal58 are also much more on my radar now given their quick jumping on the bandwagon. So, I'm going to switch my second vote from soulfire to ilovejohn for now (since jackal58 at least changed his vote off of soulfire).
TLDR; Orgolove could be mafia, don't let both soulfire and TheMango die. My vote for Soulfire and TheMango was just to see which of them Pandain was going to attempt to divert the vote from. You could well be right about Orgolove. I could be right about Pandain. I sent Orgolove a PM yesterday regarding Paindains seemingly uncanny ability to switch the vote. It was sent to see if Pandain and Orgolove were talking to each other. At this point it does not appear that they are. Pandain did exactly what I expected him to do. If he and Orgo are both red I think they would both probably have switched up the vote to me. But it appears they are both aligned differently. I cannot say with any certainty which one is Red but one of them is. I think if we lynch them both today we will reduce reds kp and at the least extend the game through another day cycle that will allow one of our dts to claim and tell us who the remaining 2 mafia are. On that basis I am going to vote Orgolove and Pandain for lynch today.
There are several things wrong with this paragraph. For one, why do you think that out of orgo and me one of us has to be red? You never responded to when I rebutted your "argument" against me(which was really just "lets lynch the dt so mafia don't have to shoot him.").
I want you to respond to this. Why do you think out of us two one of us has to be red, and why don't you think the other people are better lynches?
|
Guys, we should lynch D_3 and soulfire.
We already know why soulfire, but D3 for some strange reason is staying out of the limelight.
He fits perfectly the role of a mafia, those who "contribute without really contributing."
Like this post:
On December 28 2010 04:31 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. It doesn't really matter that the person is afk; that's why the day cycles are so long. What we especially have to watch out for is if everyone is *too complacent* in letting the target die. If there isn't adequate discussion that's been generated then we KNOW we haven't picked someone important. With that said I think I'd like to suggest something I was thinking of in my last game: every person take a look at the posts of the person below you on the page 1 list and post an analysis of said person on Day 3. That should give us enough time to accumulate a good amount of analysis. If said person is up for the chopping block then post what you have sooner than later. I think player death shouldn't cause too many problems with this plan and it should help newer players participate.
Says that everyone should analyze someone, then doesn't analyze ANYONE in the game whatsover. In addition, just gives some "we should watch out if this happens" info. Rather than talking about the game itself.
On December 28 2010 22:59 d3_crescentia wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 22:42 ShoCkeyy wrote:On December 28 2010 20:15 Node wrote:Analysis of LunarDestiny so far (my comments in blue):+ Show Spoiler +On December 27 2010 10:51 LunarDestiny wrote:
Lets discuss about the game. Framer is the only role new to me and the role is damn powerful. If we focus on a small group of people, the framer can easily frame someone who dts will check. We should try to focus on a bigger group of people so the framer could not misled the town easily.
On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. On December 27 2010 11:10 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:08 Mr.Zergling wrote:On December 27 2010 11:03 LunarDestiny wrote:
I think the framer role encourages dts to use check on lurkers. why would it do that? Because it is unlikely that mafia would frame a lurkering town. So if dts check lurkers, then it will reduce the risk of them mischecking a framed target. He spends his first few posts addressing the framer role, and how it should affect DT checks. I'm not a big fan of directing blues, but I'm not about to call this scummy posting. When people start asking blues to take specific actions (ie put bomb on this guy, check this guy, protect so-and-so), then it sets off alarms.On December 27 2010 12:25 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2010 11:50 Pandain wrote:
WHAT TO DO FOR TODAY
I say to do this ery day, I say to do this now. Town should lynch inactives. This is actually a somewhat complicated process. Right now in the beginning I will just begin voting people(pressuring) until they make enough of a meaningful post and then I’ll vote someone else. Now, the point is to lynch those who “contribute without really contributing” not those who are just going to get modkilled. That is why at the end it’ll end up being one of the “semi lurkers”, not the dead ones.
SUMMARY
1.Contribute without spamming
2.Be active, make well thought out posts.
3.Lynch the semi inactives, inactives for now.
Contradiction? Pandain say we should lynch inactive for day1 then vote for Mr. Wiggles? Pandain, please explain. He calls Pandain out on voting Mr. Wiggles. IMO Pandain's vote was justified by his post, but I don't have a problem with this. On December 27 2010 14:17 LunarDestiny wrote:Since there are many new players in the game, they will probably base their night actions, if they have blue roles, on advices of others. Pandain did give out many good advices but I'll nitpick this one: Show nested quote +Vigi- I still think this should really be a town decision who to shoot. There are so many times when town is going to need that extra certain kp in situations in the future, in addition to the fact that most likely you will shoot a town. Only shoot if we tell you too, or(and I’m being very cautious on this) you just know I like the idea that vig's shot should be decided by town. Unless vigs are veteran, the town are better figuring out who is scum. Also, shots from vigs aren't wasted if more than one shots at the same person are made. I also want to discuss should vigs use their shots early to try to get lucky and kill mafia? Reducing mafia KP is very important and we also have two double lynch to compensate for lack of vig in the later in the game. Continues to advise blue roles, this time focusing on vig. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea to base the town's night kills on luck, enough that I'd call it scummy to ask for it. He also notes that newb blues are likely to base their action on town advice, which is exactly why I'm beginning to find it a bit weird just how much advice LunarDestiny is giving. Any mafia influence over special town roles is good for them.On December 27 2010 14:33 LunarDestiny wrote:
Vigs can only hit on night 2. At that time, we will most likely have multiple suspects. These suspects are likely to be our main lynch targets on day3. So if they are not killed, we have to deal with them anyway. The risk is that they are town and can be proven innocence on night 2 by a dt. But the existence of the framer discourage dts to check on suspects. So dt checks on suspected people returning town aren't convincing information.
Also in most of the games I played, vigs are killed before they were able to make shots. More blue advice.On December 27 2010 14:55 LunarDestiny wrote:
I was trying to give people someone to discuss. There is no better topic that I can find. I find it hard to believe that there's really nothing else to discuss, but I'll let this slide.On December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
People will ask what your opinion is on something and it is safe to respond on these pm. Just don't tell anyone your role. If you strongly sense that someone is trying to fish out your role, you should tell town since it is good indication that the person is mafia.
After night 1, dts would have checked some townies and pms are encouraged between them. There is a slight chance that a mafia will take the risk to fake the dt role, but it would be hard for them to do since they have to predict but role that person is.
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. More blue advice. Also, he wants a list made rather than pressuring inactives on an individual basis -- which other people have mentioned isn't the greatest of ideas.On December 28 2010 03:43 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 00:56 LSB wrote:EBWOP On December 28 2010 00:50 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 00:40 LSB wrote:@LunarDestinyOn December 27 2010 17:00 LunarDestiny wrote:
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap. We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves. What do you think we should do about inactives then? Can you read his post? It doesn't do anything about inactives. It just says we make a list of inactives and see what happens. We've done this practically every single game. Does it work? Not really. LunarDestiny, can you elaborate a bit more then?
I don't like the idea of pressuring a certain person to speak up one at a time. If the mafia choose to pressure a townie and that townie is afk, then we are falling into mafia's trap.Looking at the voting thread, there are 3 people that were voted. Mr.Wiggies quickly responded after pandain voted on him. Pandain also respond after the mass vote on him. But Jackal had yet to respond after being voted by pandain. Accusing someone encourages participation from that that person. But what if that person is afk? He won't be able to respond. Also, IF pandain is mafia, then town will be sidetracked. Other inactive mafia will go under the radar.
We should consider all inactive. When day1 is half way over, we should come up with a list of people who are inactive/all spam/suspected and discuss who to lynch. Maybe then, those people on list will speak up and defend themselves.I am saying that we should not target inactive (afk/spam/suspect) at a time for day 1 lynch. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up. Again all of the above is for day 1's lynch when town have almost no information. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. He clarifies that he wants to not target an inactive for a day 1 lynch, but wants to pressure them into posting via his list. Which... I don't really get. Why would they post if there was no actual threat of being lynched? Also, I don't think mafia pressuring inactives would actually be bad, as long as . In addition the last time a complete inactive got lynched day 1 (salem mafia w/BrownBear), they ended up being red, though to be fair it was a traitor role, so the mafia wasn't aware of their alignment.
I don't agree with this post, but I'm more inclined to say that his thoughts come from a town point of view.On December 28 2010 04:08 LunarDestiny wrote:
Also, I somewhat don't agree with Dr.H that dts should check the people they think are the most likely to be mafia. The people that seem to most likely to be mafia are a combination of:
-Lurkers who post bare minimum to stay alive.
There is a lower chance that framer will framer a lurking town. I encourage dts to check these people. There is the downside where these people are more likely to be modkilled because they might be people who lost interest in the game. Without more people as replacement, dt checks might be wasted. So dts have to judge between lurkers who lost interest in the game and those who are posting minimum to stay alive.
-People who have taken a huge stand on issues and are in long debates with others. These people are most likely to be framer's target since there are, at most, a few of people in this categories. The probability of successful framing of these people is higher than probability of successful framing on lurking town. And even if a dt check says that a person of these categories comes out to be mafia, this information is useful, but less compared to other mafia games where there are no framer
To summarize, dts should use checks on lurkers to avoid framer. But should judge between real lurkers and discouraged players. Again with the blue advice.On December 28 2010 04:53 LunarDestiny wrote:
I am not saying that we should go after inactive all game. On day 1 where very few information is available, we should pressure all inactive to speak up. Because this game have the role framer in it, we should let dts deal with inactive and discourage dt checks on people are suspicious because they are in heated debates.
I agree that behavior analyze is important. Especially in this game, mafia check by dt on people who are in long debates are less convincing compared to other games because they are likely to be a framed townie. On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
Yes, my posts are general and are related to how should we play this game because of minor difference (framer) compared to other mafia games.
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
@3)Again, I am not trying to post to make me look town. Heck, I could have lurked from the beginning and not attract attention to myself.
By my "plan", I assume you mean me saying "who should dts check" and "on day 1, we should pressure inactive to speak". Yes, both requires almost no work on my part. The first is advice to dts and the second is relating to generating discussions.
As of now, I do not have good point of why or why not anyone is mafia. I do not want to accuse anyone without good point. Here he's defending himself after Barundar's post accusing him of not posting much in the way of content. I'll go through point by point.
1. I already stated how I disagree with not pressuring players individually. And it's not like a list is going to be particularly persuasive in the way of getting inactives more active, unless people actually act on it. That requires votes.
2. See #1
3. Anyone could say this. Of course you don't have to post anything helpful, but it certainly assists your own case if you're mafia.
Altogether, an inconclusive post.On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. So, it's okay to point fingers at active players because it encourages debate, but it's not okay to do so at inactive players because they might be afk. Again, I disagree, but that's a common theme at this point.On December 28 2010 05:46 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:26 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 04:57 Barundar wrote:I’m sorry to point it out, but I can’t help but notice how general and unproductive your posts are, LunarDestiny. At some point on day1, we should come up with a list of possible lynch and that will encourage those people on the list to speak up 1) Lists are a good way to appear like you are contributing, without actually adding anything. I want to put pressure on all inactives to speak up and maybe contribution. 2) Pressure is not done in general, pressure is specific to make the player unable to hide. Your list of pressuring “all” inactives is the same as pressuring none. 3) There is a fine line between a plan, and suggestions that make you appear to be active while sending the town on a goosechase. Your plan requires no work from yourself (“we” should do this and that), is very general (“at some point”), and it’s limited to inactives instead of scumhunting, making it mechanic, so even when we hit town, the mafia is not guilty. In general, the player list is a little more stacked with active players than Pokemafia/HPmafia, so inactives shouldn’t be as much as a problem (even if I just replaced one…) My respond is above. (Thought I could post right under without quoting) Okay, now your post makes a bit more sense. But the point still stands. Why is it so bad to put pressure on one person and then move? Why is this better than RNG? I think I answered your first question in my post above. For your second question: The list is better because it will affect more inactive. Now I think RNG people to pressure them can be use in combination with having a list because I don't see why we can't use them together. To rephrase what I was saying, only RNG people and accuse them is not a good choice to pressure inactive. Having a list will pressure on a bigger group of people. You can RNG people and pressure them, BUT the list is needed because RNGing people is not enough. More pushing for the all-important inactive list. Why Insanious ended up making it instead of LunarDestiny is beyond me.  On December 28 2010 05:57 LunarDestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2010 05:51 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 28 2010 05:34 LunarDestiny wrote:On December 28 2010 05:23 LSB wrote:On December 28 2010 05:20 LunarDestiny wrote:
@1)I want to ask you how should we put pressure on specific player to contribute. It would be bad if a mafia is calling out inactive townie. Also, who should we choose? Go to a list of inactive and randomly pick one of them and say "xxxx, please contribute."
@2)If the list is short enough (less than 10 people?), then the list is convincing enough to pressure people to speak up.
What's the difference between the two scenarios? In both we are putting pressure on people to contribute. In both we need to make a list of inactives. Because if we do something like "xxxx you have not been contributing and that makes you look mafia, please contribute." We get contribution like Mr.Wiggle which is good. But if the mafia is the one pointing fingers, then other mafia will be left alone. Also, we are targeting a smaller group of people compared to having a list of people. I also like to say that I am not discouraging pointing fingers at non-inactive. Having debates between active players especially useful since it is the best way to find mafia because a mafia dt checks on these people are less convincing than other mafia games. Everyone has to point fingers. Even mafia point fingers at their own for weak posting or inactivity, but they will rarely push for a lynch. It should be our job as town to make sure that all of the necessary people are brought into the spotlight and to lynch those we find lacking. As posted above, I think pointing finger is good but a list is needed because pointing finger is not enough. Also, the list thing is most useful in day1 since that is the day with the least information. After day1, I suppose that the lynch will be based on behavior analysis like other games. Also, I want to ask Pandain to stop voting at random people to pressure them to talk. If we are also pressuring random inactive, then the same person must not be the one pointing fingers. I find this post in particular especially strange. Pandain is getting results and encouraging discussion, and apparently that's a bad thing. The last sentence is garbled, but by the sound of it he means inactives should not be the ones to pressure inactives. Um... okay. So how else can they contribute?On December 28 2010 07:34 LunarDestiny wrote:I am following debates between Annul and LSB. There are something I don't get. Annul's conclusion in his first post about why LSB should be lynched. Show nested quote +in conclusion, LSB has been making pure nonposts and/or pure informative posts without analysis, with the two exceptions being his insistence on the "kill inactives" theme and his defenses of pandain and mr. wiggles. yet he has like 30 posts up while saying almost absolutely nothing.
my vote is on LSB now. Annul, your conclusion for lynching LSB is because he have about 30 posts. All 30 posts, except 2, are posts that means nothing and pure informative posts without analysis? LSB, are your reasons for lynching Annul in page 17? -1. Giant wall of text that pretends to be contributing -2. He doesn't want to do anything about inactives -3. He makes a faulty analysis that is forced -4. Annul posts without brining anything new I will say what I think of this later, but I want to get these two points straight. Finally he gets involved in the discussion that the town has been most concerned with lately. But whatever happened to pressuring inactives? In his whole post history, he has not actually called anybody out, or even commented on the list he wanted. Also, despite being quite active in the game so far, he hasn't cast a vote, even though he emphasizes pressure.On December 28 2010 08:33 LunarDestiny wrote:I also think that Annul's initial post about LSB being mafia is illogically since the town will definitely not lynch a veteran like LSB because he have some meaningless posts. LSB actually have way more than 2 good posts before annul's accusation. Annul's second reason on p.18 Show nested quote +insistence on going after inactives instead of scumhunting. it would be very easy for a mafia to know his team all happen to be active and then say "hey kill inactives over all else EVEN IF scummy targets exist Well, we know that there is a lot of inactive in this game. I also assume there must a some mafia inactive in this game so LSB going after inactive doesn't say much about him being scum. What I don't understand is why Annul accused LSB without good evidence why LSB is mafia. -I don't think Annul accuse LSB to save Pandain because the bandwagon on Pandain is a joke and there is no good reason to lynch pandain. -LSB also mentioned that Annul do the analysis on LSB to make himself look good by using it as a reference that he did lengthy analysis. But LSB also say that annul want his post to be ignored. I have to question why would annul choose LSB to accuse if he want his post to be ignored. It makes no sense. If annul want his post to be ignore, he could have analyze someone other than LSB, because pointing finger at LSB would certainly result in some lengthy responses that annul can't slip by. More comments on the LSB / annul debate. I'm happy to see him voice his thoughts on the matter, though I would rather see an actual position taken instead of just listing the various issues that are guiding the debate. He could be genuinely unsure of which side to take, or it could be the typical wishy-washy mafia.
So, final thoughts. LunarDestiny, up until commenting on the annul / LSB debate is all about lurkers and blues. Blues, lurkers, blues, lurkers. DTs should check them. We should pressure them this way, not that way. It's a good idea to lynch one. So on and so forth.
Final verdict: undecided. I'm going to leave it at 50/50 for now. His thoughts aren't inherently scummy, but I really wish that he would get a bit more specific and actually start pointing fingers instead of encouraging others to do so. I think what made me suspicious of him was how many of his points I disagreed with. I just think the inactive town list, asking Pandain to stop doing what's clearly working, and the desire to control blue actions are all misguided notions. The key here is that we don't actually know anything about him -- it would be quite easy for a scum to be behind these posts and say "I'm contributing!" even though everything he has said could be summed up in a few sentences. It's true that for most of the game he's been re-iterating the same thing over many posts.
If he is town, I think he could do better. Ok, what im wondering is, why would you go off posting who's blue, if he is or isn't. You're just making it easier for mafia to pick and choose on who to kill. Explain as to why you did this? If he is a blue I want to know why you did an analysis on him if he's really trying to help the town and hasn't posted scummy at all. I have my FoS on you. WOW way to not read the post, since his COMMENTS blue. This is exactly the kind of stupid crap that gets you killed. Comments on Node's analysis of LunarDestiny: undecided is not an acceptable conclusion. Quite frankly I don't understand why you would post an analysis if you're just going to waffle around the steps to action; at least lay an FoS or something. I honestly don't think there's any benefit to doing analysis this early in the game from mafia to mafia teammate at this point in time, but leaving it so ambiguous doesn't really present a solid case. As for LD himself, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of his posts thus far, so I'll follow the logical conclusion of the analysis and FoS LunarDestiny.
Disagreeing with the conclusion of a analysis rather than actually talking about the analysis itself. Also gives the "Fos" on LD without really any support.
On December 29 2010 22:18 d3_crescentia wrote:
Got back late last night from my super-long day, so I'm catching up on the thread this morning. I'll also be gone for a good extended portion of today and Thursday will be a normal work day for me, so as it stands my posting will be kind of limited until Thursday night or so. Apologies to everyone as I haven't been keeping up as much as I'd like since game started.
I'm looking at the Day 1 vote lists and trying to figure out how the Pandain vote dissipated so quickly (presumably sidetracked by the LSB/annul debate). My original qualms with Pandain lie entirely with his initial post as he ENTIRELY neglects the role of the framer in his advice (thus making it terrible advice for ANY townie to follow), so I'll have to go back and see what he's posted thus far makes up for that.
A pure nothing post. Says he's sorry for not contributing, says he's going to see how Pandain has developed. But doesn't actually comment on that itself, just says he's going to do it. Plus, just because I didn't talk about the framer(didn't think its that important) doesn't mean the advice is terrible.
It's stuff like this that makes me suspicious of d3. Rather than actually analyzing people/giving his thoughts, he just comments on side things or avoids the main topic. For example right now he's been basically absent today.
|
United States1966 Posts
On January 14 2011 04:37 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2011 03:33 TheMango wrote:
Why do you guys keep assuming we have DT's, correct me if I'm wrong, but especially with the number of veteran/vigilantes we had so far, isn't it likely that we could have no DT's and maybe even only 2 mafia left? I think we shouldn't rely on DT's saving us and start thinking for ourselves. It's a bad mentality to use DT's as a crutch.
If we do have a DT, and he/they only happened to check people who are dead now, it wouldn't help to come out now anyway. We have a dead Mafia Framer. That role would be superfluous without any detectives. I am going to assume we have at least 1. I will also assume we still have at least i doc and 1 mad hatter left. And 3 mafia reaming. Nobody has made any role claims since day 2 when Pandain claimed to be a DT and then later recanted. I have no real idea who DT may be but now would be a good time to claim while we still have a doc in the mix. So out of 10 remaining we have at least 3 blue and 3 red. And probably 4 green. I'm going to also assume that 2 of us have bombs planted on us. This could be a messy lynch. Other than Pandain and orgolove I still think the remaining Mafia are TheMango and Mr.Zergling.
That makes sense, except for you thinking it's me, lol. I'll most likely keep my vote on both you and pandain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.westernfolklife.org/weblogs/artists/dufurrenal/cobweb%201.jpg)
