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On December 13 2010 06:28 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:25 zeks wrote:On December 13 2010 06:24 Gabriel wrote:On December 13 2010 06:23 zeks wrote:On December 13 2010 06:06 LSB wrote:
AFAIK Zeks is also increadibly scummy in the other games he plays. What other games have I been scum in? LOL are you just agreeing you are scum? Where the hell are you getting that from? What? im not good at English but you just wrote: What other games have I been scum in?
Anyone else remember this?
On August 03 2010 21:50 zeks wrote:
i'm gonna keep joining mafia games until i get a scum role
Zeks hasn't joined Team Mafia yet!
(Most illigit lynch ever, but hey... could be slipup)
On December 13 2010 06:23 zeks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:06 LSB wrote:
AFAIK Zeks is also increadibly scummy in the other games he plays. What other games have I been scum in?
By Scummy I mean that you sound like scum, even though you may be town
The games I've played with you
RAM: Zeks was inactive, non-comittal
Harry Potter Mafia: Zeks has done nothing to contribute to the town and only talks about his own mayoral campagain.
PYP2 retty scummy from what I remember
TL Mafia XXX: I dunno, I died quiet early. Glares at Infun
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Zeks hasn't joined Team Mafia yet!
(Most illigit lynch ever, but hey... could be slipup)
By that I would've stopped joining games at this game then, but i joined HP mafia right after 
RAM: Zeks was inactive, non-comittal Harry Potter Mafia: Zeks has done nothing to contribute to the town and only talks about his own mayoral campagain. PYP2 retty scummy from what I remember TL Mafia XXX: I dunno, I died quiet early. Glares at Infun
PYP2 I was 3rd party...and i killed a scum day 1 lol
TL Mafia XXX I died day 2 from scum
RAM: Remind me what game that was?
HP Mafia: My mayor campaign is already the best contribution
in addition the games you didn't play with me
TL Mafia XXVIII I played a huge role as the mad hatter getting BC and SouthRawrea
Godfather - I was town played pretty mediocre
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 13 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 04:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I bet 100 esports dollars that in Kenpachi's first game as mafia no one will lynch him. I see your 100 and raise you one kajillion esports dollars. + Show Spoiler +On December 13 2010 03:21 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 23:22 DarthThienAn wrote:
Wait so,
1) We all knew Kenpachi was most likely town, just posting scummy because that's how he usually is.
2) zeks was definitely a better option. Still think he has a good chance of being mafia.
3) We lynch Kenpachi?
...Consider me confused.
People to look at imo:
zeks
Eiii
Brocket
LSB
DCLXVI
Insanious
tree.hugger
It's much easier to say "I knew he was town" after he... er... flips town. Thankfully, Darth is at least showing how it's partly done, by actually providing a list of other people whom he finds suspicious. This is good, however I'm confused about how you got from this: Show nested quote +kenpachi 12
tree.hugger
deconduo
Insanious
Brocket
LSB
jcarlsoniv
DCLXVI
Kavdragon
ShoCkeyy
seRapH
Amber[LighT]
Eiii
To your list. Zeks obviously never switched his vote from StormTemplar to save himself, but he is at the top of your list for reasons already outlined. But the rest of your suspicions come from the Kenpachi vote list, and I'm wondering why deconduo, jcarlsoniv,Kavdragon, ShoCkeyy, seRapH, and Amber[LighT] were left out. Or perhaps you need to explain your methodology for including the names you did. Once again, if you have suspicions, you must articulate them. Names aren't helpful, reasoning is. My problem is that I thought it was pretty obvious that Kenpachi was town BEFORE he flipped. Like I said, he posts like crap or "scummy" but "scummy" posting =/= scum. More often, it's townies who have contradictory posts and poor logic and all those other things (to an extent). It's better to look for people who say stuff like "This thread needs more analysis" and then they don't offer any of their own, or people who drop in and say "this person looks kinda scummy, this person looks kinda scummy" and then they disappear after that. For example, I voted for zeks day 1 because his posts are. for the most part, neutral/non-committal. The "kinda sorta maybe" posting is the kind that I'd consider scummy. Also people who say one thing in the thread, but then "change their minds" at the end of the day and vote for someone without a solid reason.
The whole reason why I voted for Kenpachi was because he was acting in exactly that manner. I certainly agree that Zeks is suspicious, but I didn't change my vote because there was no reason to prioritize one over the other. However, if yesterday he had said this...
On December 13 2010 06:23 zeks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:06 LSB wrote:
AFAIK Zeks is also increadibly scummy in the other games he plays. What other games have I been scum in?
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On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 16:02 Eiii wrote:On December 10 2010 15:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On December 10 2010 15:22 Insanious wrote:
So now we have 4 people voting for Gabriel with little to no explanation... actually I think like only 1 person explained why they were voting for Gab and the other three didn't even say they were voting for him or why... bandwagon on an active, outspoken player? Me no likey... Most people gave a reason, Gabriel took an extremely hostile stance towards several players, gave shaky reasons for his actions and bandwagoned shamelessly and then became extremyl defensive and rage quit when people questioned him. Until someone comes along and acts scummier I'll be keeping my vote on who I feel is the best lynch. Honestly, gabe's play has been distracting and inconsistent at best and scummy at worse. I mean, look at this: On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. He goes from saying "We're not going to be able to analyze anyone day 1, let's just lynch an inactive and hope it removes some dead weight" to... On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2.
Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it! One quote is a throwaway reaction to the day 1 post, one quote is asking about rules of the game, and the rest are useless but harmless posts. Like I said before, if he had taken even a second to look at ken's play in salem he would have seen that ken spammed like crazy even though he was medic. He might be active but he's certainly not helpful, and I think he knows it.
Personally, I *do* think good analysis can be done day one. My vote's with gabe for now. Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 23:58 Node wrote:As weird as Gabriel's play is -- I still highly doubt that he's mafia, there's no way scum would draw so much attention to themselves -- I agree completely with his analysis of zeks. I'm still curious about the "infun slip ups" line, which has yet to be clarified. Also, I think the "stop overreacting" and "don't go apeshit" lines were excellent catches, as they were put down after zeks deflected pressure. For those who don't know, a classic scumtell is defending oneself and acting guilty when there aren't people attacking you. Scum, after all, has something to be guilty about while townies do not. I'd also like to draw everybody's attention to Eiii, who has been posting in an incredibly scummy fashion. On December 11 2010 16:58 Eiii wrote:
...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O On December 11 2010 17:10 Eiii wrote:
holy shit
Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect! What, exactly, are these supposed to contribute? They do absolutely nothing as far as actually refuting gabriel's arguments, but instead continue to pile shit on him by calling his posts bad. It does zero for the actual discussion at hand. To me, it screams scum attempting to deflect a lynch. For now, I'm going to be putting my vote on zeks. If he turns up scum, I think we have been given excellent candidates for the lynch on day 2. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 11:19 Eiii wrote:Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D
I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death, but what I really don't like is this:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Zero response to DC's attacks, just semi-claims to be blue to avoid a lynch. Obviously he takes it back a post later, but I just can't get over how disruptive a move this is. You are so mafia it hurts my eyes sir. Last voter on Kenpachi too. To put it in a few words: 1 Eiii puts the pressure on Gabriel to justify a badwagon. Note that he states clearly that my reasoning for calling KENPACHI OUT is wrong based.2 Just as Node describes: when I post about lynching zeks and why he is the best behavior lynch he comes out with two rather personal attack posts (and he didnt even cared to read about zeks analysis). Another thing to note: dodging Nodes call out. Not even a word. Period. 3 Three posts later im the cleanest guy in the town. Throw me a bone here please. 4 Remember point 1? lol now Kenpachis analysis is good (after it came from tree.hugger). Now im asking anyone to re read the actual case from treehugger and get the name of all those quotes inside his post calling Kenpachi (hint: they are mine). Can you actually explain how you pass from "(Gabriel is) Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it!" to "I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death" (by Gabriel and tree.hugger mostly)?And how you pass from: "...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O" + "holy shit: Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect!" to "Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :DIm calling you out sir. Right here, right now.
Oh....kay. Firstly, i agree that Eiii has been looking scummy. Not for the reasons that you posted though. Look, most of your argument refers to the fact that he has changed his position on your alignment. When someone is so blatantly scummy, it's hard to believe that they are actually mafia, because they would be afraid to post like that. I had the same switch of opinion, I thought you were mafia, but then you got so bad that I realized you are much more likely to be a bad townie.
That being said, I have no idea what he was talking about when he said you put out some decent content....=D (Ok, well, perhaps he was refering to your analysis of Zeks, because a few people said they liked that, but it IS still strange)
On December 13 2010 05:43 Gabriel wrote:Previous data from players is useless. Half decent players are able to get away with different playstyles. Im sure TL veterans dont look previous games unless there is a contradictory post from the accused in the active game (refered to the old game).
LOL WUT? Uh...No. On of the most useful things a veteran has, is history. This helped alot in Salem, and VER says that it's one of the most useful techniques in analysis.
In any case, I think we have enough information after the lynch to start analyzing people. I suggest we analyse a few of the more suspicious people each day and work a lynch from that. I'll submit that i want to see these people analysed more fully:
Zeks (I want to see more than Gab and Treehugger contribute on this)
Reason: Summy posting, as has been pointed out by others.
Eiii (I think I'll look into this, but I'm not the best analyser so...)
Reason: No content, somewhat less obvious (and thus more suspicious) scummy posting.
I want Deconduo more thuroghly analysed, but theres not really anything to analyse.
Reason: Also voted last minute for ken, without posting a reason that I saw. (Sorry if I missed it)
I also want to know more about Kitman27, but he has also posted little. Three posts, one of which had content.
Anyone else have a short list of people we should focus on?
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Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention was that Kitaman27 said in his (first?) post that he was done with finals, and it was "Mafia Party Time". This would imply that you are planning on being active, but you've been anything but. Just a little suspicious.
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On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:
You are so mafia it hurts my eyes sir. Last voter on Kenpachi too. To put it in a few words:
1 Eiii puts the pressure on Gabriel to justify a badwagon. Note that he states clearly that my reasoning for calling KENPACHI OUT is wrong based.
Yeah, I said that calling ken out as a major target so early was a bad plan because he always played spammy. I stand by that.
On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:
2 Just as Node describes: when I post about lynching zeks and why he is the best behavior lynch he comes out with two rather personal attack posts (and he didnt even cared to read about zeks analysis). Another thing to note: dodging Nodes call out. Not even a word. Period.
They were mostly attacks on your posts-- alright, they got a little personal, I'm sorry about that. But seriously, in one part of that post you outright state that you can't possibly be mafia because you explained your vote-- you admit you didn't have 'good logic' behind the vote, but hey since you offered an explaination then nothing could possibly be wrong. I don't understand this line of thinking at all, and it really put me off at the time.
I don't have any defense to node's call out. Those were two posts where I just attacked you because I really, really didn't like you style of posting. I'll avoid things like that in the future.
On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:
3 Three posts later im the cleanest guy in the town. Throw me a bone here please.
Because three posts later, I went back and actually made the effort to understand your post on zeks instead of just tossing it out as another grasping-at-straws analysis post by you. I rethought my position on you-- You were being way too aggressive to be mafia, like I kind of alluded to in my 'too bad to be mafia' post, and once I stopped focusing on your questionable logic at times it looked like you were actually trying to root out mafia. Like I said-- as long as there's *actual* content for you to analyze, I think you'll keep putting out pretty good analysis posts. At the beginning, there wasn't any content and you just kind of attacked people-- *that's* what set me against you at first.
On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:
4 Remember point 1? lol now Kenpachis analysis is good (after it came from tree.hugger). Now im asking anyone to re read the actual case from treehugger and get the name of all those quotes inside his post calling Kenpachi (hint: they are mine).
I didn't use even remotely the same logic you did for calling kenpachi out, and you should know it if you've read my posts.
On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:
Can you actually explain how you pass from
"(Gabriel is) Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it!" to
"I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death" (by Gabriel and tree.hugger mostly)?
Sure, if you actually throw some content inbetween those two posts they make a lot more sense!
At first, ken was just spamming. Gabe called him out for it. Ken always spams (or he did in salem when he was medic, at least), so it's not really a huge mafia tell in my book (for him, of course).
What really tipped me off was when he semi-claimed blue at the last second when it was clear he was under significant pressure. In salem when he was about to be lynched he just busted out with 'I'M MEDIC' out of nowhere, and got his ass saved. He *was* medic, of course, but I don't have any doubt that he remembered how quickly the town opinion on him turned around in salem once he floated that piece of info. What I saw here was someone really, really afraid of getting lynched who knows that claiming blue has saved him in the past, so he goes for the same tactic again.
That's the reason I voted ken-- I didn't vote because he was spammy, I didn't vote because he posts didn't have any content, I voted because considering his history in salem and that quoted post's reaction to major pressure, I thought he was trying really hard to get out of being lynched.
On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:
And how you pass from:
"...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O" + "holy shit: Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect!" to
"Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D
I really didn't like your posting at first, and that stuck with me even as it got better. I explained my thought process more above.
On December 13 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote:
Complete turnaround... starts the game off saying how he thinks Kenpachi is a bad poster. Then he changes his mind because Kenpachi continues posting poorly? Not to mention he's the last vote.
Darth's post on me focuses on about me focuses on my turnaround on ken as well. I didn't lynch ken becuase his posts were spammy or bad, like both have pointed out I defended ken for being spammy and bad earlier in the game. It's specifically his reaction to pressure that got him my vote-- I don't think defending someone for doing one thing and then later lynching them for a separate thing they've done is a contradiction in the slightest.
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On December 13 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote:Brocketplaying the newbie card quite a bit, which I don't like. But Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 23:35 Brocket wrote:
Good points raised by amber. I think it can go either way as well. If Gabe gave solid arguments that were easy to follow then I would honestly have not voted for him. It's like a vote for reason. As it stands I won't be changing my vote for this day phase but I admit it was too hasty.
I think it should be emphasised that any one of us voting for gabe could be mafia too (or people voting off infund for that matter) and with 31 players it won't be that hard to get gabe out of the hot water if we want to keep him. herpdederp.. Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 14:19 Brocket wrote:
I think whatever Gabe did so far pales in comparison to the outbursts we're getting recently. I'm reconsidering my vote. This is the kind of useless post that you should look out for. What does it say? What does it do for the town? Absolutely nothing, except give Brocket an easy way out. Can easily be interpreted as a "I might need to switch my vote later on to save my scumbuddy." Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 14:58 Brocket wrote:
If you want to pick mafia. I can guarantee you one of us picking gabe is a mafia. Just for future reference in case I somehow die overnight somehow. I'm not paranoid or nothing. What does this post even mean? How do you know someone picking him is mafia? Other than the fact that you're mafia and you noticed that one of you is voting for Gabriel? Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 16:46 Brocket wrote:
I'm taking what gabe said with a grain of salt. But I should do the same for everybody else.
Sounds pretty rough but if gabe turns out to be a villager then people have a lot of explaining to do.
Yet another wishy-washy, non-committal post. Especially the bolded part. Show nested quote +On December 11 2010 22:48 Brocket wrote:
If you guys are gunning for kenpachi, then what about jcarlsoniv? It seems like they're a couple.
Also the arguments for kenpachi/zeks are compelling. I think gabe is pretty glad that others are voting for these two so I have to ignore what gabe says honestly, for now.
I'm also more curious about whether kenpachi is a mafia than gabriel is. Because kenpachi seems to be more likely mafia than gabriel at this point (im putting gabe down as a quasi helpful townie for now) I will change my vote to kenpachi.
Please excuse my laziness to format the capitals/potential grammar mistakes. I came back from a party just now but my will to change vote is strong. Cool, so you've told us that Kenpachi more likely mafia than Gabriel. What about zeks? You read the analysis. You "took it with a grain of salt." Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 14:22 Brocket wrote:
= /. Massive sigh. So kenpachi was voted out because:
He was a pikachu who acted like mafia. Why would you even do that? Gah. The mafia know who's on their team right? You're the reason why we can't have nice things Kenpachi.
He was a pikachu who made out to be mafia by mafia who knew he's always acted suss consistently in every game. I am so disappoint. "Massive sigh." Good acting How do you know it was the mafia that framed Kenpachi? Why are you disappoint? A townie died. Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 18:19 Brocket wrote:
I regret changing my vote to kenpachi. As a direct result we have to keep gabe for another night/day's worth of discussion. God help us all.
Mafia please kill him or me. Kthx. tbh, I don't see what all the rage is about Gabriel's posting. It's somewhat hard to understand sometimes but it's not as terrible/lacking as some others in the thread, and he's made several good points during the first day. Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 01:10 Brocket wrote:
Zeks and kenpachi, but kenpachi and jcarl seemed to back eachother up and focus attention on gabriel. In fact I thought if kenpachi turned out to be mafia, then jcarl would also be mafia so it was a sort of 2 for 1. People did put good arguments for zeks but because I didn't notice him much I didn't think about him, which I suppose makes the arguments against him stronger.
Feel free to look at what I've said. I've mostly just been looking at what people have been saying and then briefly looked at 'analyses' of what people said if you want to save yourself some time. Start contributing your own thoughts to the thread. kthxbye. -- I don't feel like explaining anymore~ the names on the list are just people who I've noticed after day 1. Let's watch who the mafia hit because it's always in their best interest to snipe people who are hot on their tails. Also in their best interest to kill off the active members, more so than blues I'd say. For example, I'd rather target a townie Qatol than a Again, these are just suspicious people. Looking back at that voting list, I think I'd throw deconduo onto my list as well. Haven't looked at his posts thoroughly, but I feel like he just came in, voted, and left.
I actually think Brocket might be a smurf and he's playing the newbie card to cover that up. Some of the questions are downright silly ("the mafia know who's on their team, right?")
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My point is that, we're not here to lynch people we don't like. We're here to lynch mafia.
@tree.hugger, that's not a good reason to lynch someone. Did you really think he was mafia? or did you just want to "rid the town of a bad poster." Cuz the latter is not a good strategy. In fact, it's something that mafia would do because they know they can get away with it (see TMMM2 or something when we lynched BM/Chezinu combo)
@Eiii, I realize that you changed your mind because of his soft-claim blue. I already explained what my problem with that is. You know he's a bad townie. You know he'll say dumb stuff. Yet you lynch him anyway, when zeks was a more likely scum. Why? Because you don't agree with his playstyle? If we go through the game lynching people whose playstyles we disagree with, we're never going to win.
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On December 13 2010 07:55 Infundibulum wrote:
I actually think Brocket might be a smurf and he's playing the newbie card to cover that up. Some of the questions are downright silly ("the mafia know who's on their team, right?")
I had those same thoughts tbh.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On December 13 2010 07:24 Kavdragon wrote:
Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention was that Kitaman27 said in his (first?) post that he was done with finals, and it was "Mafia Party Time". This would imply that you are planning on being active, but you've been anything but. Just a little suspicious.
Yep just spent all day yesterday traveling so I'm home now. I spent this morning reading through the thread and made a comment about kepanchi. Nothing else really to add at the moment, especially considering its preferable to limit mafia info during night hits.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 13 2010 07:56 DarthThienAn wrote:
My point is that, we're not here to lynch people we don't like. We're here to lynch mafia.
@tree.hugger, that's not a good reason to lynch someone. Did you really think he was mafia? or did you just want to "rid the town of a bad poster." Cuz the latter is not a good strategy. In fact, it's something that mafia would do because they know they can get away with it (see TMMM2 or something when we lynched BM/Chezinu combo)
@Eiii, I realize that you changed your mind because of his soft-claim blue. I already explained what my problem with that is. You know he's a bad townie. You know he'll say dumb stuff. Yet you lynch him anyway, when zeks was a more likely scum. Why? Because you don't agree with his playstyle? If we go through the game lynching people whose playstyles we disagree with, we're never going to win. I'm saying the same reasons that you listed for Zeks being suspicious also applied to Kenpachi. You keep saying that Kenpachi was obviously town, but that's not the case, a majority of the town suspected him over Zeks, probably because both he and Zeks were playing very similarly, but Zeks's wagon gained steam after Kenpachi's did, making it the more plausible distraction wagon. Of course, it turned out not to be the case, but Kenpachi's lynch wasn't out of thin air.
But look, we're fortunate that no real damage was done, and it's time to move on from yesterday's battles to see how the night turns out. After which, Zeks is a prime candidate, especially after his freudian slip there.
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DarthThienAn
On December 10 2010 23:35 Brocket wrote:
Good points raised by amber. I think it can go either way as well. If Gabe gave solid arguments that were easy to follow then I would honestly have not voted for him. It's like a vote for reason. As it stands I won't be changing my vote for this day phase but I admit it was too hasty.
I think it should be emphasised that any one of us voting for gabe could be mafia too (or people voting off infund for that matter) and with 31 players it won't be that hard to get gabe out of the hot water if we want to keep him.
On December 11 2010 22:51 Brocket wrote:
##unvote gabriel
##vote kenpachi
herpdederp..
If you look, you'll notice the 1st post was made on the 10th, the second post on the 11th. I said "as it stands". There has been a lot of discussion between both days and it changed my opinion. Get with the program dude.
And I said Gabriel's outbursts in the first few hours wasn't as bad as some of the others I've read since. I don't know what you're seeing but if you read your post again and exclude your obnoxious comments it follows a logical order. Also you omitted some other posts in between too  to help take them out of context .
Please, please analyse what I say more. It's very entertaining since I haven't received so much attention before. So thanks for that, although your comments are rubbish.
And if you don't like my "newbie card" deal with it. I'm sub 100 posts but I can tell when people are being condescending because of their enormous e-peen.
Cool cool?
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On December 12 2010 09:45 LSB wrote:
Ghrur, what's up?
I know your here, you just posted a nice blog. But you managed to not post here and quickly vote for yourself and leave.
Sorry man, I haven't had much time to read through the threads at this point. I don't feel like making this thread any longer without contributing, especially after my latest fiascos as town. I'll post once I can make more helpful posts, this one not included. =/
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@ LSB:
Honestly the zeks/kenpachi arguments were pretty solid. Gabriel just came off as inconsistent and a little hard to follow but not as bad. The arguments against gabriel weren't as good as I first thought hence my change in vote.
I'm a little suss of everybody because I don't know you well enough to see tells. This is my first time playing mafia in a forum and since I can't see your facial expressions I'm not very used to reading into every post to the letter so my general perception to tell who's scum is poor.
The only thing I actively know how to do competently is to pay attention to people defending themselves from suspicion (and I'm one of those people) which usually ends in deflecting attention onto someone else or just saying they don't care/have nothing to hide. I'm more of the latter type.
If I do see something strange I will say so even if it sounds like I 'contributed nothing' by repeating what got said already.
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On December 13 2010 07:02 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 16:02 Eiii wrote:On December 10 2010 15:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On December 10 2010 15:22 Insanious wrote:
So now we have 4 people voting for Gabriel with little to no explanation... actually I think like only 1 person explained why they were voting for Gab and the other three didn't even say they were voting for him or why... bandwagon on an active, outspoken player? Me no likey... Most people gave a reason, Gabriel took an extremely hostile stance towards several players, gave shaky reasons for his actions and bandwagoned shamelessly and then became extremyl defensive and rage quit when people questioned him. Until someone comes along and acts scummier I'll be keeping my vote on who I feel is the best lynch. Honestly, gabe's play has been distracting and inconsistent at best and scummy at worse. I mean, look at this: On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. He goes from saying "We're not going to be able to analyze anyone day 1, let's just lynch an inactive and hope it removes some dead weight" to... On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2.
Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it! One quote is a throwaway reaction to the day 1 post, one quote is asking about rules of the game, and the rest are useless but harmless posts. Like I said before, if he had taken even a second to look at ken's play in salem he would have seen that ken spammed like crazy even though he was medic. He might be active but he's certainly not helpful, and I think he knows it.
Personally, I *do* think good analysis can be done day one. My vote's with gabe for now. On December 11 2010 23:58 Node wrote:As weird as Gabriel's play is -- I still highly doubt that he's mafia, there's no way scum would draw so much attention to themselves -- I agree completely with his analysis of zeks. I'm still curious about the "infun slip ups" line, which has yet to be clarified. Also, I think the "stop overreacting" and "don't go apeshit" lines were excellent catches, as they were put down after zeks deflected pressure. For those who don't know, a classic scumtell is defending oneself and acting guilty when there aren't people attacking you. Scum, after all, has something to be guilty about while townies do not. I'd also like to draw everybody's attention to Eiii, who has been posting in an incredibly scummy fashion. On December 11 2010 16:58 Eiii wrote:
...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O On December 11 2010 17:10 Eiii wrote:
holy shit
Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect! What, exactly, are these supposed to contribute? They do absolutely nothing as far as actually refuting gabriel's arguments, but instead continue to pile shit on him by calling his posts bad. It does zero for the actual discussion at hand. To me, it screams scum attempting to deflect a lynch. For now, I'm going to be putting my vote on zeks. If he turns up scum, I think we have been given excellent candidates for the lynch on day 2. On December 12 2010 11:19 Eiii wrote:Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D
I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death, but what I really don't like is this:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Zero response to DC's attacks, just semi-claims to be blue to avoid a lynch. Obviously he takes it back a post later, but I just can't get over how disruptive a move this is. You are so mafia it hurts my eyes sir. Last voter on Kenpachi too. To put it in a few words: 1 Eiii puts the pressure on Gabriel to justify a badwagon. Note that he states clearly that my reasoning for calling KENPACHI OUT is wrong based.2 Just as Node describes: when I post about lynching zeks and why he is the best behavior lynch he comes out with two rather personal attack posts (and he didnt even cared to read about zeks analysis). Another thing to note: dodging Nodes call out. Not even a word. Period. 3 Three posts later im the cleanest guy in the town. Throw me a bone here please. 4 Remember point 1? lol now Kenpachis analysis is good (after it came from tree.hugger). Now im asking anyone to re read the actual case from treehugger and get the name of all those quotes inside his post calling Kenpachi (hint: they are mine). Can you actually explain how you pass from "(Gabriel is) Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it!" to "I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death" (by Gabriel and tree.hugger mostly)?And how you pass from: "...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O" + "holy shit: Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect!" to "Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :DIm calling you out sir. Right here, right now. Oh....kay. Firstly, i agree that Eiii has been looking scummy. Not for the reasons that you posted though. Look, most of your argument refers to the fact that he has changed his position on your alignment. When someone is so blatantly scummy, it's hard to believe that they are actually mafia, because they would be afraid to post like that. I had the same switch of opinion, I thought you were mafia, but then you got so bad that I realized you are much more likely to be a bad townie. That being said, I have no idea what he was talking about when he said you put out some decent content....=D (Ok, well, perhaps he was refering to your analysis of Zeks, because a few people said they liked that, but it IS still strange) Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 05:43 Gabriel wrote:Previous data from players is useless. Half decent players are able to get away with different playstyles. Im sure TL veterans dont look previous games unless there is a contradictory post from the accused in the active game (refered to the old game). LOL WUT? Uh...No. On of the most useful things a veteran has, is history. This helped alot in Salem, and VER says that it's one of the most useful techniques in analysis. In any case, I think we have enough information after the lynch to start analyzing people. I suggest we analyse a few of the more suspicious people each day and work a lynch from that. I'll submit that i want to see these people analysed more fully: Zeks (I want to see more than Gab and Treehugger contribute on this) Reason: Summy posting, as has been pointed out by others. Eiii (I think I'll look into this, but I'm not the best analyser so...) Reason: No content, somewhat less obvious (and thus more suspicious) scummy posting. I want Deconduo more thuroghly analysed, but theres not really anything to analyse.
Reason: Also voted last minute for ken, without posting a reason that I saw. (Sorry if I missed it)I also want to know more about Kitman27, but he has also posted little. Three posts, one of which had content. Anyone else have a short list of people we should focus on?
I did give a reason for the vote on ken, it was because of a fast suspicious bandwagon onto zeks. 4-5 people came out of nowhere to throw votes on zeks to put him ahead of kenpachi to be lynched. To me it looked like mafia didn't want kenpachi lynched.
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On December 13 2010 07:56 DarthThienAn wrote:
My point is that, we're not here to lynch people we don't like. We're here to lynch mafia.
Heh, remember policy lynches? Those were fun.
As for not noticing ken's activity... well, herp de derp. I are tired.
On December 13 2010 07:55 Infundibulum wrote:
I actually think Brocket might be a smurf and he's playing the newbie card to cover that up. Some of the questions are downright silly ("the mafia know who's on their team, right?")
Who gives a crap. The endless "WHO ARE TEH SMURF" arguments don't really help us find mafia.
On December 13 2010 06:24 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 06:23 zeks wrote:On December 13 2010 06:06 LSB wrote:
AFAIK Zeks is also increadibly scummy in the other games he plays. What other games have I been scum in? LOL are you just agreeing you are scum?
No... stop. He didn't say he was scum, that would be retarded. zeks is not retarded.
On December 12 2010 15:33 Gabriel wrote:What is done, is done. Right now the best for us is Gabriel' s random lists (absolutely random and out of nowhere). Rolecheck list: + Show Spoiler +Protection list: + Show Spoiler +
node
d3_crescentia
jcarlsoniv
Voltorb list: + Show Spoiler +
tree.hugger
dimnsab
deconduo
Again, why? This is just spam and serves no purpose except to clog up the thread. (I applaud your tenacity with the bbcode though )
At this point, though, I find it hard to paint anyone as definitively scum - zeks has some arguments for him, but has also been this scummy in the past (and been a town). Gabriel is misleading/wrong most of the time, but if he were actually scum, there's no way in hell he'd be this active. Unless that's part of his grand scheme?
w/e, those are the two guys I'm currently looking at. Maybe they'll post more and help me paint a better picture.
On December 13 2010 00:26 flamewheel wrote:
obligatory lol post
This was what I was gonna do before I got subbed in ^^
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On December 13 2010 06:06 LSB wrote:
Previous data is increadbily important to attempt to figure out differences in play.
GGQ is inactive this game, and I've vertifying if he actually could play the newbie card.
From the few pages I browsed, GGQ is a pretty active player. This is considerable different from what is happening in this thread.
It's certainly true that I've been very quiet in this thread compared to the Altitude Mafia 5.0 thread, which I assume is the one you looked at. But the reason for that can be explained easily. For one thing, I knew most of the people in that game quite well from playing Altitude with them for months, which made it easier for me to analyse their posts and behavior. Also, the Altitude Mafia games used clues, which I found easier to post about than trying to scumhunt based purely off of posts by people that I don't know at all. And for the record, I was mafia in that game :D.
But I'll talk about something that seems really important to me that nobody is discussing:
On December 12 2010 12:38 zeks wrote:
I think I'm dead ?
Oceanic
meapak
Hesmyrr
infundibulum
Please take a good look at these people especially infun. Votes came off him way too easily and the people who voted for him got mobbed immediately for the dumbest reasons.
Cheers and at least u didnt get a blue
On December 12 2010 12:43 zeks wrote:after the FoS on me no one even bothered to post once to defend me 
These posts are obviously intended to be seen as the point of view of a green who believes he's been lynched and is giving his last words. However, when I made my vote (which turned out to be the last one), the most recent votecount (which has since been edited to show the final votecount...) showed Kenpachi leading over zeks by two votes, and after that votecount there were three votes for Kenpachi and four for zeks. My vote was 40 minutes before zeks' "I'm dead" post, which gives him plenty of time to count the votes and add some small numbers together and see that Kenpachi was getting lynched, not him. (There is the fact that KtheZ voted zeks twice because he forgot to 'unvote' the first time, but even then the vote would be a tie and Kenpachi would still have been lynched). I have a hard time believing that zeks could miscount the votes so badly with his life on the line. I think these posts really force us to polarize our view on zeks.
You either believe that he's an innocent pikachu who fails at simple math, or that he's confirmed TR because no town role would fake those posts. I strongly feel that he's scum.
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night post to come in maybe an hr or so
from here on in no actions can be changed
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I bet 50000 Esports bucks I died
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Day 2The sun rises over Kanto...![[image loading]](http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/8/8f/Cerulean_City_HGSS.png/300px-Cerulean_City_HGSS.png)
Floating down a river in Cerulean city, four bodies were discovered.
jcarlsoniv the Pikachu.
RebirthOfLeGenD the Pikachu
tree.hugger the Electrode
Meapakk_Ziphh the Pikachu
As tree.hugger drowned in the water, a small voltorb exploded in the distance. Nothing happened.
The town wept in remembrance of those who were lost. The day will end in roughly 48 hours.
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EPT
