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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On November 02 2010 07:44 Coagulation wrote: fishball because he has contact with a circle would be the most logical assumption If you take out the fact that three players are in the same circle, I actually did not have any "direct" contact to the other two. At the very least, not from my end. | ||
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Pandain
United States12979 Posts
Also, dr. H, why must you post so very very much | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On November 02 2010 08:38 LunarDestiny wrote: So lazy that I use this chart as reference... According to the chart, ShmotZ and Orgolove are part of Fishball's circle. But according to the role pm given after their death, there is no mentioning for any circle whatsoever. Orgolove the ADD Doctor is now dead. ShmotZ the Mafia Do-Gooder has been modkilled. Once again, I repeat, QS was in the circle too. 6 total - 3 dead = 3 remaining, ok  ?Speaking of which, the 3rd member still have not replied to my PM regarding a request for a role claim. He just flat out did not reply to me. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:16 Pandain wrote: happy birthday fishball Also, dr. H, why must you post so very very much Thanks. Getting too old ;( | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=c&f=-1&u=Aeres&gb=date If you feel I'm intentionally withholding information, feel free to call me on it. Nothing stands out. Talks about the election and he doesn't really make any points of his own. Nothing strikes me as being very town or very mafia. On October 30 2010 08:31 Aeres wrote: How many Bodyguards are assigned to a Mayor upon election, and through what method? Interest in the role of bodyguard before the election is over. Just something to note, since if you are of the opinion that Aeres is mafia this means he could be planning his roleclaim already. On October 30 2010 09:53 Aeres wrote: Calm down, man. Tensions are expected to run high in a game based on lies and deception, but you don't need to blow your stack like that. People take you more seriously if you post with a more even-tempered tone. agreed coag u need to chill brah On October 31 2010 00:39 Aeres wrote: Wow, quite a bit of discussion happened while I was in dreamland. Despite all of the suspicion that's fallen around the Doc, my vote remains with him. I'm also feeling really shitty today, so I'm not really in the mood to do a lot of quote analysis and C/P'ing, but he makes a good case for himself and offers a practical solution that addresses the possibilities of him either being Mafia or spreading Murrayitis with the stick. I personally don't think that Orgolove, one of the Doc's primary opponents, argues his point sufficiently for me to change my vote. I do not feel this because of past actions in Haunted Mafia, so I have no bias in that regard. I am speaking strictly in terms of the events that have transpired in this game, and those actions seem to me like Orgolove relies on word-twisting and subtle attacks to discredit people. There's nothing wrong with that methodology in a game like Mafia; in fact, I would encourage that playstyle. However, I feel that he's a bit too hostile and not convincing enough for my vote to be swayed. + Show Spoiler + Note to Orgolove: In no way do I mean to come across as antagonistic toward you. I simply don't agree with your method of debate thus far; I hope you understand this. =) Oh, and by the way, at the very beginning of this game, where you said you were gonna run for Mayor and use a spreadsheet, you'll recall that I said that spreadsheet was a reason I wouldn't vote for you because of complications last game. You seem to feel that it was because the data on it pinned me as Mafia. I'd just like to point out that that isn't why I'm against the spreadsheet. (In fact, I don't think it ever did put any solid evidence on me as Mafia... if anything, I myself inadvertently planted the seeds of my demise by correcting your profile description of me, saying it was Joe Pesci, a movie actor in MAFIA films *cough cough*. Stupid move by me, to be honest.) No, it was because that spreadsheet, despite your best efforts, was riddled with errors and misinformation, which skewed the discussion of clues in the thread. I say this because I want to drive the point home that I disagree with your methodology in terms of this game only; I don't have any weird vendetta against you. =) I'll probably talk more if/when I feel better today. I'm still reading the topic and what transpires here, though, so I definitely won't be out of the loop. decent post explaining his reasoning but doesn't really say too much in terms of original points On October 31 2010 06:08 Aeres wrote: I don't think that's fair to accuse Glasse of shitting up the thread when I've done more of it than he has. If anything, blame me. = / If I had to go with my gut instinct, I'd say either NB or ghrur. I have nothing concrete on either of them, but they feel somehow... strange. Not fishy, that's too cliché... merely strange. Aeres is right, he hella spammed. I don't really like his meek/submissive tone it implies a little bit of implicit guilt. Here comes the big one, I'm gonna deconstruct this post in red. On November 01 2010 04:12 Aeres wrote: Okay, since it seems that the Doc's position as Mayor is in jeopardy, I'm going to put some interesting info out there. Artanis lied. big assumption there There are two Bodyguards, not one. I don't know who the first one is (I suspect it's DC), but I am the second one. we know this is a lie. I was going to play dumb about my role of Bodyguard until DC screwed up. I dunno if he really is the other Bodyguard, but if he is, I feel like if he was killed, then the Mafia, upon learning that there is a second Bodyguard (due to a failed hit on Mayor), would start hitting the most outspoken townspeople in lieu of the Mayor. Since I am in fact one of the more outspoken people in this topic, I was at risk of being "tapped", so to speak. He talks about his past behavior/thoughts concerning the role of bodyguard which seems strange for a protown liar. He showed some express interest in the workings of the bodyguard role. It seems like he wanted to understand the role a lot better before he faked his roleclaim, a mafia would want to cover all the bases and would probably work harder at it IMO. I would also like to note that my normal role greatly assists my ability to act as a Bodyguard. Since Bodyguards block hits on the Mayor, killing them makes the Mayor vulnerable. My role is designed to increase my longevity as long as possible. It's odd that you're talking about how your role assists you in being bodyguard because it serves the exact opposite purpose you CLAIMED you were trying to achieve with your fake roleclaim. My role is called the "Cruiseship Captain". I am eligible to PM a mod in order to set sail for the ocean and leave town for the night, thus becoming immune to any and all night actions (positive and negative alike, including roleblocks and DT checks). I am not permitted to set sail on consecutive nights. Because of this mechanic, I can survive on my own for a short while. Having a Medic tend to me will not be necessary for the first few nights. Once my role has been exhausted of uses (I do not know how many times I can set sail in this game, only that it is more than once), Medics are more than welcome to assist me. Later you say you're trying to draw hits to yourself, because you can protect yourself. However, by saying this the mafia is less likely to hit you than any other bodyguard (you claim DC is one of them and funnily enough it turns out that it seems he's going to die). Why are the mafia going to waste their hits on a bodyguard claiming "you can't hit me?" you're not trying to soak up shit. Also, please keep in mind that my role has an additional function that I am not presently willing to reveal. I think at this point maybe you should if we are to believe you. It's do or die. Yeah, this is all great, Aeres, but now you sound mighty suspicious to me! Well, yes, I cannot deny that I seem fishy (pardon the pun, I am a Cruiseship Captain, after all). I also imagine it does not help my case that setting sail makes me immune to DT checks. I assure you all, however, that I am working in the interests of the town. Believe me, I'd rather not cause suspicion when it isn't warranted, but DC's possibly slip-up forced my hand. Oddly enough you didn't seem to consider the fact that you were the only bodyguard and that DC was lying. You immediately went to "artanis is lying and there are 2 bodyguards." There is no reason for a bodyguard to claim for pro-town reasons. Later it turns out that DC didn't claim bodyguard, is going to die, and the real bodyguard died. Whoops. On November 01 2010 04:16 Aeres wrote: Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty, but I can at least control the times I am vulnerable and the times I am not. I would think that the time stalled for by roleclaiming would be equal to the time stalled by Mafia hitting you in vain. Talking about how he can protect me when it's clear that his claim isn't designed to draw hits and that he has no real way of protecting me at all. On November 01 2010 03:07 Aeres wrote: Congrats on the Queen, Bum! Liked the Lurker better, but meh. As for your point, I agree for the most part. However, I would argue that it might be advantageous to roleclaim if your role allows something similar to what youngminii did to avoid the lynch. There might be strategic value in roleclaiming some other powerful role to waste a KP or lynch. I'm not sure what the balance is between offensive, defensive, and investigative roles might be, though, so it's possible that only a few people fit this bill. A fair bit of WIFOM comes into play here, but it might pan out. On November 01 2010 04:24 Aeres wrote: As has been stated before (and most likely again later), this is INSANE Mafia. We have no idea what Artanis and LSB are capable of throwing at us. I hope that DC actually isn't a Bodyguard as he implied. If he wasn't, that means there's still a hidden Bodyguard out there, and I can stall for time while the Mafia searches for the hidden one. In that period, we can coalesce into a more organized town and start trying to get at the Mafia. Aeres is really pushing the mistrust of Artanis/LSB when he knows they didn't lie because he is the liar. Hmm. On November 01 2010 08:33 Aeres wrote: Now THIS has got me very suspicious of the Doctor. What I'm getting from this is that BrownBear tried to manipulate the election results so that the Doc wouldn't win, but he failed, and the Mafia killed him. This makes it seem like the Doc is scum. I mean, it's a good thing for a Mayor to be town, so if BrownBear was killed for doing good, does that mean his efforts to get the town control from Mafia failed because the Doc or another Mafioso caught wind of what was happening? He was my most enthusiastic defender earlier in the thread. This seems pretty far-fetched to me but of course I'm biased. On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote: Alright, it's confession time. I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard. When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good. When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried. I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark. I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town. (I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....) He says he had a plan but he doesn't tell us what it was. You've been caught, why would you not tell us? I guess what his plan might have been and he agrees but in retrospect it's weird he didn't just say so in the first place. especially since after I went over his original post claiming bodyguard it's very clear that his claim was not designed to do this at all. On November 01 2010 11:52 Aeres wrote: I was AFK, writing a paper for school. As soon as I was finished, I wrote the confession post. Understandable. I'm still new to Mafia, and I still have a lot of learning to do concerning the nuances of the game. I tried something, it didn't work, and I'm taking heat for it. I had a feeling this would happen, but I don't particularly regret it, as I wanted to experiment, as I said before. baww i'm new i wanted to experiment it was just a risky plan. you are posting with a lot of guilty rhetoric. If it was truly a failed pro town gambit, there is no real reason to act this way about it imo On November 01 2010 11:59 Aeres wrote: Meh, there's not much I can do to defend myself now. I'll leave it up to you guys, although at this point, I agree it's a liability to keep me alive. now he's just giving up. is this a bus? On November 02 2010 00:41 Aeres wrote: It's not a matter of conceding easily. I simply have no defense for myself. I lied to try and protect the Doc, I failed, and I fucked up the game. If I saw a way out of the mess I put myself in, I'd pursue it, but I just cannot see how I would be able to, especially since I've essentially lost any semblance of trustworthiness. As for the Village Idiot idea, don't you think it's odd for a VI to have a role that encourages survival? Why would that happen? And why would a VI be allowed to vote for himself? That seems like an overpowered role to me. Doesn't really seem to understand VI and I doubt Aeres is the VI anyway. I'm more convinced than ever that Aeres might be scum and considering my reanalysis of youngminii's post it seems that mafia are trying to push the bandwagon off of aeres and onto YM. I'm voting for aeres. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:18 Fishball wrote: Once again, I repeat, QS was in the circle too. 6 total - 3 dead = 3 remaining, ok ?Speaking of which, the 3rd member still have not replied to my PM regarding a request for a role claim. He just flat out did not reply to me. Considering the mafia likely know everyone who is in the circle, I think you should tell everybody as a town. It's just more information that we don't have that the mafia does. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:16 Pandain wrote: happy birthday fishball Also, dr. H, why must you post so very very much i don't have anything else to do, that's why | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
On November 02 2010 08:56 Ace wrote: Like I said ages ago and just like Fishball illustrated - his role is not tied to his alignment. @Amber: It doesn't matter if it's a newbie mistake. Lying is SCUMMMY. I don't know why we always go with these "oh he was just trying to be a hero townie so he lied" moments. How many games do we need to play where Scum lie, town believes it was just a mistake and there's a red GG Scum Wins message on page 100? Lynch All Liars. Period. Once you start letting the first person go with lies then it's extremely hard to lynch the next set of liars since they have the same safe alibi. As an example, remember the greatest lie ever told in a Mafia game on TL.net is Caller's bullshit Insane Busdriver claim, 2 days after he led the town to believe he was another role. The town bought it hook, line and sinker because "oh Caller was just trying to help" and walla - 2 dead townes, Caller escapes THREE lynches and the town loses. Stop letting people lie. You can't even defend this anymore (and this goes for all of you trying to justify Aeres's play). @Jcarl: Who cares if he's the Village Idiot. If he is, ignore him. Scum hunt. Village Idiots usually don't end the game as it's just a "yay you managed to get lynched" role aka completely useless. That said I doubt he's a VI. Probably just playing "dumb" in order to save himself from being nightkilled. @Aeres: Your best bet is to hope for a DT or some kind of hidden Pardoner role to save you. Somehow I doubt that's going to happen though. @L: You can't prove Dr.H lied. Dr.H said he'd try to use his ability on Night 1, and it's inconclusive on if he was roleblocked, if Jcarl is telling the truth or if Dr.H is lying. With Aeres we know he's lying. Big difference. LAL doesn't apply to Dr.H because he wasn't caught lying. Also if Aeres is some kind of mad hatter role that just shows he was lying about being a Cruise Captain - which would mean he lied TWICE. Now we are encouraging townies to lie about everything just to draw a hit to save a Mayor who's alignment he doesn't know? Shit just sign me up for the next religious cult asap. Once again L is asking for the death of one player to "confirm" another. Remember what I said about him trying to get people killed for information? Right. Dr.H's death doesn't give you any bearing onto Aeres's alignment. Period. @deconduo: If townies have to lie sometimes with good reason give some examples because this time was definitely not good. Guys, we aren't going after Kenpachi or any non-active players today. We've got 2 big situations to solve right now. Let's actually scum hunt. @Dr.H - youngminii seems to be getting bandwagoned "because he should have died during the lynch". deconduo is saying youngminii, who hasn't been shown to lie at all or do anything scummy should be lynched over a guy who has lied, possibly twice AFTER 2 players pushed him onto the spotlight. I see what you're saying about setting the pace. I always believed we were under the impression that if there was no reason to lie, why do it? But I'm realizing that sometimes the biggest liars tend to be pro-town, and to deter this maybe using the LAL policy is best-fit for this day cycle. I agree though that gunning for an inactive is counter-productive for the towns survival. At this point we're lucky we didn't lose a person on day 1. How does L compile all of this information so quickly? He was just asking for the gems of this thread anyway. Freaking beast when it comes to lynchings. I'll switch to Aeres since at this point we are making the best move of the town... | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Considering the mafia likely know everyone who is in the circle, I think you should tell everybody as a town. It's just more information that we don't have that the mafia does. I've been considering it, but I respect the opinions of the other 2 members so I've been wanting to discuss with them; Only if one of the other guy get back to me first... Also, there is a fair chance that the Mafia DO NOT know about the circle members, considering one of the Mafia members in the circle was actually mod-killed for inactivity. Whether or not he would pass on the information, is another story. | ||
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
I'm content with sticking with Aeres. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:20 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Considering the mafia likely know everyone who is in the circle, I think you should tell everybody as a town. It's just more information that we don't have that the mafia does. Good point here. Since ShmotZ is part of the circle and he was reveal to be mafia. Then mafia should have the circle list as information. No reason to hide it unless the plan you are having has to work secretly to town. | ||
infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
by request: An analysis of youngminii It's interesting to note that youngminii made only one post on Day 1. It "explains" his choice for mayor (not really, since it's exactly 8 words long). He hasn't even expounded on it as of now, and he didn't respond to questioning. On October 29 2010 14:55 youngminii wrote: I buy fishball's story. I don't buy bum's. Two conclusions. Nothing to show how he got there. He still hasn't said anything about it, but at this point it might be moot. On October 31 2010 19:50 youngminii wrote: hi Sorry for not having been on in a while, I've been away from a computer for a bit (did not know it was going to happen). I'll skim the thread before I say anymore. That's fair. I'm not going to question an unexpected leave. Still, you should respond to the questions we asked on Day 1. On October 31 2010 20:20 youngminii wrote: oh god that was a shitfest, i didn't read everything to the full but i got the general gist of what's going on Before you ask me to do something stupid like roleclaim, ask yourselves: Why in God's name would scum have an ability that allows them to not die? Lynches always bypass the 'oh this guy has two lives' thing anyway. Why would I not try to defend myself after being pressured for so long? If you thought I was biding my time so that someone could try to take the attention away from me, why didn't anyone? DrH I'm surprised you didn't think of the second question. Also, a whole lot of your reasoning for your accusations in this thread comes from the metagame, which is stupid because some people like not playing the same style every single game. Stop relying on the metagame, especially if you've only seen me play *once*. Hang on, your reasoning is flawed anyway because if you actually used the metagame, you would have seen my active posting in Haunted Mafia as scum. Why in the world would you still try and get me lynched? This isn't much of a defense, actually. Basically, he says there is no way that his lynch-dodge could be a red role. Except that it was pointed out that it is actually possible for a lynch-dodging role to be red (e.g. dodge lynch the first time, like a red veteran). I agree that it's not beneficial for him to roleclaim at this point (at least not fully), but instead of using "It's not beneficial to town" as a reason, he uses "I'm obviously not red" as a reason. That's odd. On November 01 2010 03:42 youngminii wrote: No comment. Doesn't that mean the bodyguard can't get hit at night by scum anyway? He keeps dodging, but he's been adamant about revealing nothing about his role so far. I wouldn't expect anything different. The question is valid, as it's a miswording from Artanis. On November 01 2010 04:07 youngminii wrote: Seriously Pandain? The lynch is the town's greatest weapon, you can't make scum immune to lynches without making the game horribly imbalanced. In any case, why don't you think about it carefully before telling me to claim? If I'm invincible, no one will believe me. If I'm immune to lynches, mafia will kill me. If I'm able to manipulate something, that will make me just as suspicious as I am now. Stop being an idiot and play the game properly. You always do this over-analytical crap which doesn't work. Go back a step and think before you post. Maybe you should start with the first post where clearly says PMs are not allowed. Reveals that he hasn't been reading the game carefully in any way (doesn't know about bumatlarge's circle powers OR fishball's circle). Continues to claim that his role could only possibly be blue. On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote: Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Here begins (?) his wagonmongering against Aeres. Even Glasse pointed out that there's no reason to interpret Artanis' words this way. On November 01 2010 04:46 youngminii wrote: Why would you say this if you only think there are 2 bodyguards because of dcx's 'claim'? This is legitimate. He does find an odd contradiction in Aeres' post which becomes one of the main reasons he's questioned and eventually revealed. On November 01 2010 10:28 youngminii wrote: Okay I don't care what's going on right now since it doesn't seem to be anything of great substance. Why is no one pointing their finger at Aeres? Did you not read the night post? A bodyguard died (Annul). Now according to LSB/Artanis, there's only one bodyguard. Maybe he's lying but if he is, we're still operating under the assumption that DCL softclaimed bodyguard. So that makes 3 in total. Aeres's claim never made sense to me anyway, and the scumtells that he dropped (oh hey I'm assuming there's two bodyguards because of DCL's softclaim.. But what if DCL isn't a bodyguard? Who's the other one?). It almost looked as if Aeres was trying to gain our trust, make us lose trust in DCL and weed out any other bodyguards that may have tried to claim. It's true that Aeres should have been under much more suspicion at this point (and indeed, we soon began questioning Aeres further). However, the scumtell he points out isn't exactly great, as a sane scum who intended to incite distrust of DC would have claimed bodyguard and acted like the only one. On November 01 2010 12:13 youngminii wrote: LAL His first post in a long time. LAL isn't even valid unless there's reason to believe he made that claim to deceive the town. Many people (I think Pandain and DrH both said this, which might be an only-once kind of thing) have stated that lying can be beneficial to the town. On November 01 2010 12:14 youngminii wrote: Pandain, slow down. Stop posting. Stop spamming the thread with long but useless information. DrH, stop replying to his 'arguments'. You'll just detract from other, more important issues. At this point, he starts attacking Pandain's arguments as spam. No doubt Pandain gets very worked up and the back-and-forth is ... length, but the argumentation isn't contentless. On November 01 2010 12:17 youngminii wrote: Sure that's important. The arguments being put forward (mainly by Pandain) are not important. They are useless, misguided and nothing will be brought up out of them. The only thing they might be able to do is convince some people to vote for DrH without any conclusive evidence. Focus on Aeres. In case you don't know, LAL = Lynch All Liars. Focus on Aeres? Why is Aeres' revelation of lying more conclusive than the several contradictions Pandain pointed out? At this point, I'm worried he's reading selectively, and he seems to be actively distracting the town from DrH and putting attention on Aeres. On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: You don't fake a roleclaim to confuse mafia. You will only end up confusing town, especially if you do it early in the game. Everyone knows this. Even if there was the small chance that he's telling the truth, he deserves to be killed because of the simple fact that he lied and confused town. His lie and DrH's 'lie' are completely different things. This type of play is discouraged and he should be killed off for it, Bill Murray used to do it a lot to the great dismay of everyone. LAL This is untrue. A player who plays badly or in a discouraged way is not necessarily red. He's just not an asset to town. But we don't lynch to get rid of just anybody. We must lynch to get rid of REDS. So far, nobody has shown decisively that Aeres lied to deceive the town. On November 01 2010 13:07 youngminii wrote: The only real reason I can think of is he played extremely well in Haunted Mafia (carried us to victory). Maybe they saw him as a threat. That's fair. I didn't play in Haunted Mafia, so I wouldn't know. On November 01 2010 13:13 youngminii wrote: I've been thinking about this for a while now. Mafia use a chatroom or something similar as an efficient tool for chatting. Often times the mods of the game join the chatroom to oversee what's happening. So at the point where Aeres had already roleclaimed the second bodyguard (after Annul) a lot of people were asking Artanis whether or not he made lies up. Artanis replied that he would not give an outright lie. This would tell us there is only one bodyguard (unless I'm missing something) which essentially outs Aeres as a liar. So I'm thinking Artanis probably gave Aeres a heads up that he was going to say what he said about the lies beforehand so that Aeres could get a chance to redeem himself a little bit by admitting his lie. ie. he was backed into a corner with no more options. I'm probably horribly wrong on this though, heh. good god, and you're trying to lesson us on what's unlikely and hypothetical, what's concrete and conclusive. On November 01 2010 13:15 youngminii wrote: You're going to die anyway. Unless the mafia are allowed to move the hit? Assuming Node is telling the truth, the hit is decided at the beginning of the day. On November 01 2010 13:19 youngminii wrote: Trust? Too much relaxation? As scum they could put us into a state of 'oh hey the Mayor has a bodyguard, he won't die, we don't need a doctor to protect him' if we think he's still got an active bodyguard. I mean, who the hell would actually go to the trouble of making an entire 'Cruiseship Captain' role by themself? Looks like it was looked over and peer reviewed by an entire team of people imo. The original Cruiseship Captain Crap: The mafia could also put us into a state of "as soon as someone is discovered as lying, lynch." He also makes a very interesting comment, that Aeres doesn't seem to have made up his role -> He must have made it up and then had a "team of people" peer review it. He's really finding the most outlandish ways to paint Aeres as red. On November 01 2010 14:05 youngminii wrote: Well then we should kill Aeres and find out, no? ^_^ This is just WRONG. Killing someone to find out their alignment is not what we lynch for. On November 01 2010 14:50 youngminii wrote: I cannot think of these situations you refer to but I'm about a hundred percent sure that a softclaim that was vague at best (which turned out to not be a claim) at basically the beginning of the game does not warrant a roleclaim that not only claims the bodyguard role but an extra Cruiseship Captain role. Oh, let's not forget the fact that he said that the mods lied about the number of bodyguard roles too. This is fair. It makes sense with his alibi, but that doesn't mean it isn't suspicious. On November 01 2010 15:08 youngminii wrote: Someone was killed with the role of ADD Doctor, which stated that you had a 10% chance of killing the patient if he wasn't being hit (or something like that). After the death, Artanis stated that the 10% chance was a lie and he would never have actually killed anyone. This tells us there are small, gay lies but no outright ones. This is true and fair. On November 01 2010 15:18 youngminii wrote: Oh right. There were quite a few. Even I thought the mods were lying because they never said anything about it. This is also true and fair. On November 01 2010 22:24 youngminii wrote: Actually I'm just waiting for a counter argument. There's only so much I can say by myself, it takes two to create a discussion. I would recommend you defend yourself. If you don't, probably nobody will. YOU should create the counter argument. On November 01 2010 22:25 youngminii wrote: Interesting theory. We should keep this in mind, perhaps? That might be a bit of a stretch. I doubt there are three circles (aside from the mafia), so the DT and Elder would have to be in either bum's circle or fishball's circle. Remember, fishball only has 3 people in his circle, including himself. On November 01 2010 23:50 youngminii wrote: I apologise, I can try be more inactive just for you. What a great argument you have there. I've already said I was afk for basically all of day 1, are you seriously saying you can't see that? Probably made a 'newbie' mistake? It's a pretty huge mistake/scumtell if you looked at it carefully, I don't see why you're letting the cookie thief get away without even a slap on the wrist. I look at my arguments and then I look at the argument I threw out. Pandain and DrH going at it about how DrH has no way of proving he's innocent. Is this argument constructive? No, it will bring nothing new to the table. No analysis, except maybe Pandain's overeagerness of going for DrH. My arguments are designed to punish the liar, the person who got caught red handed in his 'one man hero attempt to save the bodyguard'. I'm still waiting for the counterargument and it's not coming. So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and gun him. I wasn't aware I had a style of being quiet until I'm lynched if I was just a townie. If you could direct me to a game where I did this, please do. Ditto for my typical 'pro-town' play. Oh yeah, how is it worth nothing I'm not 'just a townie'? You realise there are no 'just a townies' in this game, right? Or are you that inactive? I'd appreciate it if you stopped pulling idiotic arguments out. Thank you very much, Those arguments are not idiotic. We don't know enough about Aeres to declare him as scum. If you are waiting for a counterargument against yourself, maybe you should produce it. That second part is the main thing I find wrong with this post. On November 02 2010 07:46 youngminii wrote: Interesting bandwagon. I would defend myself but.. I don't feel the need to. My vote's gonna stick with Aeres, pretty sure my vote on him is justified. I dunno why there are so many people suddenly jumping towards me. Anyway, what the hell DrH? This continues to make 0 sense. Why would you not feel the need to defend yourself? OK. I apologize for missing posts (I know I missed one, but I can't find it >____>) Youngminii has been very concerned with Aeres and getting Aeres lynched without evidence. It seems either scummy or evident of a DT who doesn't know how to play and is martyring himself. Except, how many DTs can dodge lynches? >__> Youngminii adamantly refuses to defend himself. I can't possibly imagine what that means, but if anybody wants to supply a theory, I REALLY want to hear it. | ||
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:24 Fishball wrote: I've been considering it, but I respect the opinions of the other 2 members so I've been wanting to discuss with them; Only if one of the other guy get back to me first... Also, there is a fair chance that the Mafia DO NOT know about the circle members, considering one of the Mafia members in the circle was actually mod-killed for inactivity. Whether or not he would pass on the information, is another story. That's an interesting point. Good job avoiding a hasty reveal IMO | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:24 Fishball wrote: I've been considering it, but I respect the opinions of the other 2 members so I've been wanting to discuss with them; Only if one of the other guy get back to me first... Also, there is a fair chance that the Mafia DO NOT know about the circle members, considering one of the Mafia members in the circle was actually mod-killed for inactivity. Whether or not he would pass on the information, is another story. fair enough. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote: Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind. I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious. On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On November 02 2010 09:48 infinitestory wrote: I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious. On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post. He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude. Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL. And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol | ||
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