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why would you want to stop this discussion?
what else do you want to talk about for the rest of the day? these are the two major bandwagons and now you suddenly just want to drop out of the conversation?
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United States4053 Posts
Happy page 100.
Our argument, like the one you had with Pandain, is now going in circles. If you have any additional points to bring up, I'll hear them. If I have any additional points to bring up, I'll share them.
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Sorry guys, I don't have enough time to really post much/read through all comments. I'm voting for myself so I can basically neglect my vote.
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On November 02 2010 10:18 infinitestory wrote:
Happy page 100.
Our argument, like the one you had with Pandain, is now going in circles. If you have any additional points to bring up, I'll hear them. If I have any additional points to bring up, I'll share them.
On November 02 2010 10:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:06 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 02 2010 09:56 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 09:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 02 2010 09:48 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote:
Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind. I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious. On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post. He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude. Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL. And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol 1) If "I'm not going to defend myself against your argument" isn't martyrdom, I have NO clue what is. Enlighten me. 2) I don't think Aeres had a viable plan. His plan was terrible. That doesn't make it scummy for the reasons that youngminii listed. Aeres wanted to defend you, and I see no contradiction in trying to produce an extra bodyguard for the mafia to hit. It might not be a pretty or good solution, but it is not a scummy solution. Aeres explained his plan in full, and nobody's found a lie within that plan yet. That is what I mean by a solid defense. 3) It's more the fact that youngminii comes out of absolutely nowhere to defend you. Aeres defending you since the start is all fine and dandy, but youngminii's defense of you comes fairly out of the blue. martyrdom is saying "goa head lynch me idc" like AERES and SiNiquity did. Did I mention Aeres did that? Aeres did that. no he didn't explained his plan in full. he didn't explain his plan at all. he was intentionally vague and then when I asked what his plan could be he jumped immediately on to what I was talking about. HUGE difference. out of the blue? what makes a defense out of the blue or not? what does that mean "coming out of nowhere?" where should he come from? 1) hey siniquity cemented himself on our lynch list day 1 for martyring himself, thanks for reminding me about that 2) On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote:
Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....) that doesn't sound particularly vague to me 3) Don't use that worthless rhetoric. He came out of the blue because he had one post on day 1, and only two (?) posts before he started defending you. You even noted that. That's why he was your #1 lynch on day 1, remember? 1)no he moved down on our lynch list because of it. we decided to lynch an inactive and they were the most suspicious two, I felt his martyring made him less suspicous than YM at the time (when he had little to no information to work with). But if you want to call YM suspicious for martyring, you have to say the same thing about Aeres. You can't be so selective with your logic. 2)where in that post does he actually describe his plan? "so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan." Could he be any more vague? If his point was to draw a hit off of DCLXVI (who is dying anyway) why would he tell the mafia "oh btw I'll block the hits with my special role" that's basically telling them "HEY DONT HIT ME GUYS" 3)you're the one using worthless rhetoric. Doesn't matter when he defended me. So he's more suspicious for defending me later (when he already explained his day 1 inactivity very adequately) rather than sooner? Aeres is less suspicious for defending me because at least he's been doing it all the while? i fail to follow your logic.
these ones
if you could highlight specifically where he highlights his plan in that post I'd love to hear it
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On November 02 2010 10:19 ghrur wrote:
Sorry guys, I don't have enough time to really post much/read through all comments. I'm voting for myself so I can basically neglect my vote.
Thanks for the alert.
If you are interested in being a replacement, please PM me or Artanis
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United States4053 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:18 infinitestory wrote:
Happy page 100.
Our argument, like the one you had with Pandain, is now going in circles. If you have any additional points to bring up, I'll hear them. If I have any additional points to bring up, I'll share them. Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 02 2010 10:06 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 02 2010 09:56 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 09:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On November 02 2010 09:48 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 09:41 Ace wrote:
Infinitestory I don't know if you read selectively but I've illustrated a few times why Aeres lie deserves a lynch. He possibly even lied more than once. Most damning of all he claimed the mods lie to justify his lie. Come on stop being blind. I don't know. Claiming the mods lie to justify his own... I see Aeres' whole thing as a very fleshed out but shitty plan. His alibi has no clear contradictions in it (even the slip up in talking makes sense if you think about someone who must act as if there are multiple bodyguards to defend DrH) I'm not saying Aeres is town. I'm not saying he's a good or valuable player. I'm saying that youngminii's eagerness to lynch Aeres based on a lie, one which Aeres made a solid defense for, is suspicious. On top of that, youngminii refuses to defend himself, he defends DrH vigorously, and now DrH comes to his defense. Perhaps you're the one who must stop being blind, because youngminii's unexplained attempt at martyrdom is beyond suspicious, and almost nobody has made a single comment on it up until my post. He NEVER attempted martyrdom. This isn't the first time you've twisted peoples arguments to make them more extreme . Come on dude. Aeres didn't make any defense. He said he had a pro-town plan, didn't say what it was, then when I asked him if he was trying to soak hits he said yes when it';s clear reading his original claim that that is not a viable plan AT ALL. And shitting on youngminii for defending me is hilarious when Aeres has been one of my most fervent defenders since the first day lol 1) If "I'm not going to defend myself against your argument" isn't martyrdom, I have NO clue what is. Enlighten me. 2) I don't think Aeres had a viable plan. His plan was terrible. That doesn't make it scummy for the reasons that youngminii listed. Aeres wanted to defend you, and I see no contradiction in trying to produce an extra bodyguard for the mafia to hit. It might not be a pretty or good solution, but it is not a scummy solution. Aeres explained his plan in full, and nobody's found a lie within that plan yet. That is what I mean by a solid defense. 3) It's more the fact that youngminii comes out of absolutely nowhere to defend you. Aeres defending you since the start is all fine and dandy, but youngminii's defense of you comes fairly out of the blue. martyrdom is saying "goa head lynch me idc" like AERES and SiNiquity did. Did I mention Aeres did that? Aeres did that. no he didn't explained his plan in full. he didn't explain his plan at all. he was intentionally vague and then when I asked what his plan could be he jumped immediately on to what I was talking about. HUGE difference. out of the blue? what makes a defense out of the blue or not? what does that mean "coming out of nowhere?" where should he come from? 1) hey siniquity cemented himself on our lynch list day 1 for martyring himself, thanks for reminding me about that 2) On November 01 2010 11:43 Aeres wrote:
Alright, it's confession time.
I was indeed lying. I am not a Bodyguard.
When 666 was accused of roleclaiming Bodyguard, I freaked out a bit. I figured that if he was indeed a Bodyguard, then Mafia might try to take him down and leave the Doc defenseless. I didn't want that to happen, so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan. There wasn't much I could have done as a townie with the role I have, based as it is on self-preservation; that role is more useful in the hands of a Mafia. I figured that I might as well try and make use of the role I had, and see if it did any good.
When I had typed out that post of me false-claiming, I just looked at the post I had made, pondering if this was a good move. In the end, after like 5 minutes of thinking, I decided that I wouldn't know until I tried.
I tried a risky strategy, and I fucked up. I had a feeling my plan would either work splendidly or fail miserably. Clearly, the latter possibility occurred, since 666 wasn't the Bodyguard at all. Nothing really else to say... I took a chance and missed the mark.
I meant what I said when I stated I was acting for the good of the town. At this point, I understand if my word has little value, but I am not lying when I say I am town.
(I wanted to experiment in this game, since it was unorthodox to begin with. I apologize for screwing up town by being too bold. =( Please don't hate me....) that doesn't sound particularly vague to me 3) Don't use that worthless rhetoric. He came out of the blue because he had one post on day 1, and only two (?) posts before he started defending you. You even noted that. That's why he was your #1 lynch on day 1, remember? 1)no he moved down on our lynch list because of it. we decided to lynch an inactive and they were the most suspicious two, I felt his martyring made him less suspicous than YM at the time (when he had little to no information to work with). But if you want to call YM suspicious for martyring, you have to say the same thing about Aeres. You can't be so selective with your logic. 2)where in that post does he actually describe his plan? "so I pretended to be Bodyguard to throw Mafia off and give the town some time to plan." Could he be any more vague? If his point was to draw a hit off of DCLXVI (who is dying anyway) why would he tell the mafia "oh btw I'll block the hits with my special role" that's basically telling them "HEY DONT HIT ME GUYS" 3)you're the one using worthless rhetoric. Doesn't matter when he defended me. So he's more suspicious for defending me later (when he already explained his day 1 inactivity very adequately) rather than sooner? Aeres is less suspicious for defending me because at least he's been doing it all the while? i fail to follow your logic. these ones if you could highlight specifically where he highlights his plan in that post I'd love to hear it
mmk,
1) I find Aeres' "martyrdom" less suspicious because he at least attempted to offer some sort of reasoning behind his behavior. Youngminii didn't until I specifically pressured him into doing it. If you find Aeres' martyrdom more scummy, that's fine by me. I suppose that's subjective.
2) This is a highly legitimate point. iirc we were asking whether it's possible for the Cruiseship Captain to defend the mayor while at sea, but Artanis refused to answer because it might have confirmed/denied roles. I don't think it's possible to resolve that point.
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Well I'm back and I've been reading a lot.
Yum Yum
Time to give my input on things.
1. LAL is a BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD policy. What is important is not that they lied or what they lied about, but their reasons for lying aka their motive. Although I do find Aeres martyring himself as fishy.
2. If you are going to go with LAL policy, why aren't you gunning for DrH too, YM and Ace?
3. DoctorH, I have FoS on, but I don't really want to lynch him at this point as he is mayor, and can really help in the lategame if he is indeed town. Besides, he is always in the spotlight, more chance for him to slipup like he's been slowly doing all day.
4. For the youngminii bandwagon, I also have FoS on youngminii but I wouldn't really lynch him yet, and I find it weird how they are ignoring that Ace was also tried to get people to bandwagon for Aeres, but his name is not being mentioned when he's essentially doing the same thing that they are lynching youngminii for.
5. It seems that youngminii and doctorH are defending each other, another thing I find suspicious
6. I don't agree with fishing for inactives is a bad thing. With all these back and forth going on between you guys, the inactives are left out of the spotlight: a perfect place for mafia to hide. Also, inactives makes any kind of post analysis useless on them. For now, I'll vote Veldril.
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On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive? This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe.
Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory?
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sorry but point 1 is a bit incomplete so I'm reposting it again
Time to give my input on things.
1. LAL is a BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD policy. What is important is not that they lied or what they lied about, but their reasons for lying aka their motive. As inifitestory pointed out, Aeres' motives are pretty straightforward, which is why I have FoS on people wanting to start a bandwagon on him. Although I do find Aeres martyring himself as fishy.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:31 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive? This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory?
For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me.
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Im going to vote for whoever I feel like and not bother to explain it all because I'm a dead man anyways.
+ Show Spoiler +give me some time to catch up on the thread
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On November 02 2010 10:34 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:31 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive? This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory? For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me.
...............................................................................................................................................
You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here...
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On November 02 2010 10:31 Nemesis wrote:
Well I'm back and I've been reading a lot.
Yum Yum
Time to give my input on things.
1. LAL is a BAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDD policy. What is important is not that they lied or what they lied about, but their reasons for lying aka their motive.
which you have no information about Although I do find Aeres martyring himself as fishy.
2. If you are going to go with LAL policy, why aren't you gunning for DrH too, YM and Ace?
because i never lied, that was made incredibly obvious in several posts
3. DoctorH, I have FoS on, but I don't really want to lynch him at this point as he is mayor, and can really help in the lategame if he is indeed town. Besides, he is always in the spotlight, more chance for him to slipup like he's been slowly doing all day.
slipping up how?
4. For the youngminii bandwagon, I also have FoS on youngminii but I wouldn't really lynch him yet, and I find it weird how they are ignoring that Ace was also tried to get people to bandwagon for Aeres, but his name is not being mentioned when he's essentially doing the same thing that they are lynching youngminii for.
Mafia too scared to go after Ace directly because of his experience. youngminii is the easy lynch choice because his posting is more erratic
5. It seems that youngminii and doctorH are defending each other, another thing I find suspicious
but not suspicious for infinitestory to defend aeres, or for coag to defend pandain. RIGHT OK. sure is selective reading here.
6. I don't agree with fishing for inactives is a bad thing. With all these back and forth going on between you guys, the inactives are left out of the spotlight: a perfect place for mafia to hide. Also, inactives makes any kind of post analysis useless on them. For now, I'll vote Veldril.
And a perfect place for blues to hide as well. So we shouldn't lynch Aeres for lying and failing to defend himself but we should lynch an inactive on a nonconclusive basis? bulllllllshit.
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On November 02 2010 08:56 Ace wrote:
As an example, remember the greatest lie ever told in a Mafia game on TL.net is Caller's bullshit Insane Busdriver claim, 2 days after he led the town to believe he was another role. The town bought it hook, line and sinker because "oh Caller was just trying to help" and walla - 2 dead townes, Caller escapes THREE lynches and the town loses.
For the record, I never believed that bastard.
I was the one who caught him too, and they killed me, the one guy who was pushing for his death 
I can already smell a lot of shit in this game that doesn't add up.
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United States4053 Posts
On November 02 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:34 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 10:31 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive? This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory? For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me. ............................................................................................................................................... You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here...
ok, no wonder I felt like there was this gigantic disconnect
can someone point me to where we agreed that Cruiseship Captain is made up
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Okay maybe I made a giant assumption about the Cruiseship Captain role's authenticity. I always thought it was just assumed to be made up along with the whole bodyguard role.
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On November 02 2010 10:38 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote:On November 02 2010 10:34 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 10:31 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive? This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory? For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me. ............................................................................................................................................... You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here... ok, no wonder I felt like there was this gigantic disconnect can someone point me to where we agreed that Cruiseship Captain is made up
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was confirmed by Aeres that the Cruise Ship Captain is a fake role. All we know is that he lied about the Bodyguard role.
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On November 02 2010 10:43 Fishball wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:38 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 10:37 youngminii wrote:On November 02 2010 10:34 infinitestory wrote:On November 02 2010 10:31 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:22 youngminii wrote:On November 01 2010 04:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:f a player is "gone for the night", would that player also be able to protect me if they were a bodyguard that same night? If Aeres hypothetically is the second bodyguard and my other bodyguard is dead: Aeres leaves for the night and the mafia hits me. Do I survive? This is a question too hypothetical to answer as it would require me to confirm or deny roles and give too much information away. Translation: Aeres is scum and he's making up the role. By answering this question, I would be confirming the existence of the fake role and as such, I can't give a real answer. Maybe. Hey wait, I was totally right here. Why are you using this as an argument, infinitestory? For one, we don't know if he's scum for certain. Also, he made the same response to a question about the Cruiseship Captain role, so by the same logic the Cruiseship Captain doesn't exist either. That just seems unlikely to me. ............................................................................................................................................... You know the Cruiseship Captain role was made up, right? Or am I missing something here... ok, no wonder I felt like there was this gigantic disconnect can someone point me to where we agreed that Cruiseship Captain is made up Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was confirmed by Aeres that the Cruise Ship Captain is a fake role. All we know is that he lied about the Bodyguard role.
That is my understanding as well.
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On November 02 2010 10:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 10:09 NB wrote:On November 02 2010 08:42 Hyperbola wrote:
I honestly do not know who to vote for right now. Nothing seems solid. I'm gonna vote for someone random so I don't get modkilled. On November 02 2010 08:41 Hyperbola wrote:
#vote Node It happens to be that node is the guy who has role to predict who mafia will kill next night.... lynching Node clearly an action to prevent nurse to save people.... for now, i will have my vote on Hyperbola while u guys bandwagon-ing on Aeres who i am 60% sure to be a result of mafia framing.... he's making a placeholder vote and it's clear he's not intending to start a bandwagon come on dude you are 60% sure to be a mafia framing? lol where did you get that statistic?
everyone has a special role... also im taking note seriously... but yeah, i made that number up
i just feel really unsafe when follow major bandwagon :<....
if thats a place holder vote and he is changing his, ima change mine :D
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On November 02 2010 10:37 DCLXVI wrote:Im going to vote for whoever I feel like and not bother to explain it all because I'm a dead man anyways. + Show Spoiler +give me some time to catch up on the thread
do you wana role reveal so we might consider using medic on you at night?
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EPT
