EPTOn August 21 2010 00:02 arctics86 wrote:
Bookmaker say it's:
Dimaga 2.05
MorroW 1.70
IdrA 1.43
Tarson 2.60
Bookmaker say it's:
Dimaga 2.05
MorroW 1.70
IdrA 1.43
Tarson 2.60
What bookie?
[IEM] Gamescom Day 4 + TLO vs NaDa! - Page 4
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Jaug
Sweden249 Posts
What bookie? | ||
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shlomo
258 Posts
Terran is a cheese win oriented race that tries to win with cheese opening/transition into well placed timing push, Zerg actually has to get into the late game and work more than a few minutes for their wins. Therefore, T players are playing a game with crutches, whereas Z always have to try and get past that early phase unscathed and still be very good late game. That has an obvious impact on the quality of the players when one race has to play 30m games to win standard when the other tries to end most of its games around 15m. If anything, endurance. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 20 2010 23:43 shlomo wrote: Maybe because sticking to the weak early game race which always has to defend all this early cheese / allins makes you a more solid player overall, whereas playing the cheesemaster race (aka Terran) will get you used to sloppy play and relying on bullshit crutches rather than actual skill? The top Zergs like IdrA and Dimaga are clearly better players and by a significant margin atm, it's only fair if they win. Doesn't mean T isn't the cheesemaster/easymode race or that ZvT isn't an uphill battle. I think I remember watching a game on Kulas of you vs Lalush I think? (Or maybe not, I forget who the zerg was). And as good as you are, it's incredible how sloppy and generally passive a Terran is allowed to be, and how many mistakes he can make and still take the game, vs how brutally unforgiving Zerg is, and how constantly hyperactive they have to be to stay competitive. So yeah, top players who stick with Zerg end up being straightforwardly better. Surprise? Not really. LOL You realize you just used the "X race players are just better" argument, the very same argument that people have been using to justify good results of terrans? How the hell are players like Demuslim, Bratok, TLO etc on a lower level than IdrA/Dimaga? It's just ridiculous to claim this. On August 20 2010 23:59 aznhockeyboy16 wrote: there's also the fact that we haven't heard much about Morrow in SC2, and I had never heard of Tarson. but yeah... this. MorroW has been the best swedish Terran throughout the entire beta pretty much... There was a brief period where he was kinda slumping hard but not long. Also, you should take a look at Tarson's beta profile - he tore shit up at the end of the beta. On August 21 2010 00:10 shlomo wrote: rofl, I thought Zerg unit production capability was already balanced by the fact that they have like 5 units to choose from (in before "omg you forgot changelings!!1) and they all are pretty inefficient. But hey what do I know, I guess Zerg is awesome, that's why it's so overrepresented everywhere on ladder. And Terran being overrepresented clearly has nothing to do with the fact that it's a cheese/easywin oriented race, obv. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that something like 40% of battle.net plays Terran at Bronze Level? The amount of Zergs near the top is the same/higher than the amount of zergs at the very lowest level - it's just a way less played race. Is it harder to get into zerg? Fuck yes, always has been - any game. Is it harder to play zerg? Maybe, it was harder to play zerg in SC1 for sure. Do zerg users need to stop whining quite so god damn much? YES. On August 21 2010 00:15 shlomo wrote: But anyway TurpinOS, what you're saying only confirms my point: Terran is a cheese win oriented race that tries to win with cheese opening/transition into well placed timing push, Zerg actually has to get into the late game and work more than a few minutes for their wins. Therefore, T players are playing a game with crutches, whereas Z always have to try and get past that early phase unscathed and still be very good late game. That has an obvious impact on the quality of the players when one race has to play 30m games to win standard when the other tries to end most of its games around 15m. If anything, endurance. This works just as well in reverse: T has to try to do damage early or they die late game. Ta-da. | ||
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HolydaKing
21251 Posts
Sarens was cleary the surprise of this tournament, although i must say i didn't expect DIMAGA to perform this well after he almost got kicked out of the groupstage, being super demotivated (so it seemed to me) after all those lost maps! | ||
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arctics86
Germany797 Posts
xlbet | ||
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Nickemwit
United States253 Posts
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Mabius
Canada323 Posts
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shlomo
258 Posts
But seriously, are we going to argue over the skill it takes to pull of reaper, hellion, banshee harass vs the skill it takes to cover your ass against all of it with zerglings/queen/crawler while taking an expo and still not come out crippled? Rofl. Must be why Zerg is all over the ladder amirite bro? | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
 It's sad enough to see all the threads turning into arguing about ZvT balance.I'm a zerg player but even I'm tired about this discussion. I'm not saying the balance is good or bad and that we shouldn't discuss about it, but not in every freakin' thread. To get back to the thread I would say MorroW and IdrA will take this. MorroW is very strong and Dimaga seems lately been favoring quick all-in builds if he feels threaten. IdrA just because he is such a beast. I don't know that much of Tarson playstyle in sc2 but for some reason I remember him favoring bio, which doesn't really work against IdrA. Looking forward to see the matches  | ||
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kar1181
United Kingdom515 Posts
If it becomes that 70% of bnet is playing Terran and tourneys are stacked like 70% Terran, it doesn't matter what the merits of argument are over balance. The game will be imbalanced because the other races wont be being played anymore. I mean in this tournament we had 50% Terran, 25% Zerg, 25% protoss. Going forward those percentages are only likely to get worse. Especially if the prize money is high. | ||
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SwaY-
Dominican Republic463 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:25 ShrieK wrote: The SC2 community is really clueless. Early results aren't indicative of balance. It takes a long time for balance to work itself out. Terran used to dominate BW and toss was hugely underrepresented. Not many balance changes were made (hell, they nerfed storm so it wouldn't kill a lurker). Years passed and things changed. The same crap happened in war3, except even more drastically. When a game is so new, you should just watch tournaments for fun and to get new ideas, admire new strats, etc. There have already been some nice surprises in this tourney. It's sad to see no toss, but that definitely doesn't mean toss is unplayable garbage. Agree on SC, disagree on WC3, its such an imbalanced mess. | ||
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Gunman_csz
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote: LOL You realize you just used the "X race players are just better" argument, the very same argument that people have been using to justify good results of terrans? How the hell are players like Demuslim, Bratok, TLO etc on a lower level than IdrA/Dimaga? It's just ridiculous to claim this. MorroW has been the best swedish Terran throughout the entire beta pretty much... There was a brief period where he was kinda slumping hard but not long. Also, you should take a look at Tarson's beta profile - he tore shit up at the end of the beta. You do realize that QQing is the reason why you will always be in the shadow of TLO and other Europeans. It's like suggesting why Flash shouldn't be considered different to Sterlok or yourself. Idra is known for his macro and is superior execution and mechanics, YES Idra is much better then the rest of the people you highlighted and If you don't think otherwise then you will always be in the dark with your prejudice. It's freaking hilarious for a Terran to argue than Terran is not only not overpowered but in fact a week race.. Bravo my friend, keep spamming on these forums instead of training, Now I know why you didn't get invited (Not like you could have passed the group stage anyways). Jinro have you ever wondered why every freaking Terran out their will suggest TvZ is their best Match-up and Every Zerg will say ZvT is their worst? Also nice of you to highlight the scores from phase1 tournaments, really smart of you, not like there was the huge roach nerf and equally strong infestor nerf, while simultaneously Terran where getting buffs every other patch!! User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Aelfric
Turkey1496 Posts
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Teton
France1656 Posts
Dimaga fighting ! | ||
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shlomo
258 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote: This works just as well in reverse: T has to try to do damage early or they die late game. Ta-da. Lol. Because T is weak late game now? Seriously... If anything they may have a hard time keeping up because they tend to invest so much in cheese early, which is a big waste when the cheese doesn't work against good players. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:29 Gunman_csz wrote: You do realize that QQing is the reason why you will always be in the shadow of TLO and other Europeans. Not cool bro. Why so mad? "OMG HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH ME OMG OMG NOOB STUPID *** YOU'RE SO BAD OMG OMG GO HOME" Keep the thread clean please,we should be talking about hype now (: | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
Idra vs Tarson is going to be a tough game. I think both Morrow and Tarson are quite similar in style and don't do those strange strats. Idra will take this | ||
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Piski
Finland3461 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:29 Gunman_csz wrote: You do realize that QQing is the reason why you will always be in the shadow of TLO and other Europeans. It's like suggesting why Flash shouldn't be considered different to Sterlok or yourself. Idra is known for his macro and is superior execution and mechanics, YES Idra is much better then the rest of the people you highlighted and If you don't think otherwise then you will always be in the dark with your prejudice. It's freaking hilarious for a Terran to argue than Terran is not only not overpowered but in fact a week race.. Bravo my friend, keep spamming on these forums instead of training, Now I know why you didn't get invited (Not like you could have passed the group stage anyways). Jinro have you ever wondered why every freaking Terran out their will suggest TvZ is their best Match-up and Every Zerg will say ZvT is their worst? Also nice of you to highlight the scores from phase1 tournaments, really smart of you, not like there was the huge roach nerf and equally strong infestor nerf, while simultaneously Terran where getting buffs every other patch!! No, just no man :o Personal attacks on a mod and a great player? Seriously? I know we all have strong opinions in heat of a moment but you really should know when to keep them to yourself. | ||
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pm_squad
Mexico180 Posts
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:31 shlomo wrote: Lol. Because T is weak late game now? Seriously... If anything they may have a hard time keeping up because they tend to invest so much in cheese early, which is a big waste when the cheese doesn't work against good players. Did you know Idra was a terran in Brood War and thought Protoss was the easy race (yep, let's ignore boxer, oov, nada, flash and the list goes on)? He then chose protoss for SC2, but changed during the beta to the race considered the easiest and strongest by far. Can you guess the name of the race? + Show Spoiler + zerg | ||
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