|
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:33 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:29 Gunman_csz wrote:
You do realize that QQing is the reason why you will always be in the shadow of TLO and other Europeans. Not cool bro. Why so mad? "OMG HE DOES NOT AGREE WITH ME OMG OMG NOOB STUPID *** YOU'RE SO BAD OMG OMG GO HOME" Keep the thread clean please,we should be talking about hype now (:
 Morrow vs Idra will be a must watch.
On that quote: What I hate is that when Terran players come on these forums suggesting that Zerg is OP. I mean I don't mind if these Terrans try to win the tournaments with any means possible, but when the come here suggesting and justifying that there race is not OP but weak..
|
NaDa vs. TLO will happen tomorrow after the first #IntelEM QuakeLive quarterfinal! Details on #IntelEM website.
From Carmac's twitter - http://twitter.com/Carmac333
|
On August 20 2010 22:07 CrivE wrote:
Altough Morrow is apperently a huge favourite at the moment (which is kind of funny since before this game I think his skill has been undercredited) I have a creepy feeling Dimaga is gonna take this one 3-2.
But.. Please MorroW.. Kill him :p Sweden hasn't been able to stand tall since the winter olympics. We need this =]
GL HF
:D:D`:D GO MORROW GOOO!!
|
On August 21 2010 00:40 humblegar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:31 shlomo wrote:On August 21 2010 00:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
This works just as well in reverse: T has to try to do damage early or they die late game. Ta-da. Lol. Because T is weak late game now? Seriously... If anything they may have a hard time keeping up because they tend to invest so much in cheese early, which is a big waste when the cheese doesn't work against good players. Did you know Idra was a terran in Brood War and thought Protoss was the easy race (yep, let's ignore boxer, oov, nada, flash and the list goes on)? He then chose protoss for SC2, but changed during the beta to the race considered the easiest and strongest by far. Can you guess the name of the race? + Show Spoiler +
Idra's always been a macro + mechanics player, it's really no surprise he picked Zerg since it's by far the most macro based race. You can't claim he just chose the "easiest and strongest" race cuz if he did you'd hear him talking about switching to T along with Dimaga, Sheth, etc. 
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:29 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 23:43 shlomo wrote:On August 20 2010 23:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 20 2010 22:28 Sfydjklm wrote:On August 20 2010 22:16 Gleen wrote:
Dimaga and Idra.
ZvZ Finals to put an end in the Terran OP concern cause one tourney zerg wins magically makes all the tourneys terran won go away. When it's the biggest tournament to date, yes? And Terran has never won a big event. Ever. World Cup? Zerg. Kaspersky Cup? Zerg. King of the beta? Zerg. Maybe because sticking to the weak early game race which always has to defend all this early cheese / allins makes you a more solid player overall, whereas playing the cheesemaster race (aka Terran) will get you used to sloppy play and relying on bullshit crutches rather than actual skill? The top Zergs like IdrA and Dimaga are clearly better players and by a significant margin atm, it's only fair if they win. Doesn't mean T isn't the cheesemaster/easymode race or that ZvT isn't an uphill battle. I think I remember watching a game on Kulas of you vs Lalush I think? (Or maybe not, I forget who the zerg was). And as good as you are, it's incredible how sloppy and generally passive a Terran is allowed to be, and how many mistakes he can make and still take the game, vs how brutally unforgiving Zerg is, and how constantly hyperactive they have to be to stay competitive. So yeah, top players who stick with Zerg end up being straightforwardly better. Surprise? Not really. LOL You realize you just used the "X race players are just better" argument, the very same argument that people have been using to justify good results of terrans? How the hell are players like Demuslim, Bratok, TLO etc on a lower level than IdrA/Dimaga? It's just ridiculous to claim this. On August 20 2010 23:59 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:On August 20 2010 23:55 Hjertify wrote:On August 20 2010 23:50 Kurumi wrote:On August 20 2010 23:45 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
dude... MadFrog isn't nearly on the same level mechanically that Idra is. TLO was favoured vs Morrow.. And he lost. Tarson never was favoured and.. won. Expect unexpected my friend! The less games are predictable,the better they are! :D but thats becouse people favoured players they liked mroe then in skill term. Most people knew that morrows TvT is betetr then TLO's and that Madfrogs macro/gamesense is still not good enougth for this tournament.. there's also the fact that we haven't heard much about Morrow in SC2, and I had never heard of Tarson. but yeah... this. MorroW has been the best swedish Terran throughout the entire beta pretty much... There was a brief period where he was kinda slumping hard but not long. Also, you should take a look at Tarson's beta profile - he tore shit up at the end of the beta. You do realize that QQing is the reason why you will always be in the shadow of TLO and other Europeans. It's like suggesting why Flash shouldn't be considered different to Sterlok or yourself. Idra is known for his macro and is superior execution and mechanics, YES Idra is much better then the rest of the people you highlighted and If you don't think otherwise then you will always be in the dark with your prejudice. It's freaking hilarious for a Terran to argue than Terran is not only not overpowered but in fact a week race.. Bravo my friend, keep spamming on these forums instead of training, Now I know why you didn't get invited (Not like you could have passed the group stage anyways). Jinro have you ever wondered why every freaking Terran out their will suggest TvZ is their best Match-up and Every Zerg will say ZvT is their worst? Also nice of you to highlight the scores from phase1 tournaments, really smart of you, not like there was the huge roach nerf and equally strong infestor nerf, while simultaneously Terran where getting buffs every other patch!!
Where did I say Terran is a weak race? That's right - nowhere.
If you think complaining (I'm not even complaining about my race, I'm complaining about how much others are comlpaining) is indicative of a poor mindset, may I please direct your attention to IdrA and Dimaga who both complain constantly about ZvT?
Did I ever put myself in the group of people I compared to IdrA? NO, because I think he's better than me. I did put demuslim, bratok and TLO in there - demuslim because he's a long time WC3 pro with outstanding SC2 results and an 88% winrate on the EU ladder (much like IdrAs US winrate), Bratok because he was an outstanding SC1 terran and is outstanding in SC2, and TLO because just look at his results.
Is IdrA better than all of these players? Maybe, I don't know, it seems highly possible. Is he so much better that he should never lose to them? No, no he isn't. If TvZ was so imbalanced as everyone claims, why does dimaga have a 17-8 TvZ record post-release? Why did he beat every terran he played so far?
There might be problems TvZ, but people complain about EVERYTHING and EVERY terran win is put down to imbalance - it's not fun. People did this with PvZ back in the day as well, and it turned out that they were completley fucking wrong - PvZ was not at all unwinnable.
Btw, there has been no changes since the King of the Beta.
Oh and if Dimaga says ZvT is his worst matchup.... Why is he 9-11 ZvP and 17-8 ZvT, in official games? I'm just asking.
|
On August 21 2010 00:40 humblegar wrote:
Did you know Idra was a terran in Brood War and thought Protoss was the easy race (yep, let's ignore boxer, oov, nada, flash and the list goes on)? He then chose protoss for SC2, but changed during the beta to the race considered the easiest and strongest by far. Can you guess the name of the race?
Zerg was OP in beta back when the roach was 1 food and not yet nerfed into oblivion.
That was quite a while ago now.
As for IdrA he chose Zerg because it fit his heavy macro playstyle better, and I don't see him switching races even now that many good players agree that T at least slightly OP (except for Jinro apparently).
|
|
|
@Jinro - Can you add the TLO-NaDa showmatch to the thread title please? Would be easier to add it to this thread, and not make another. I dunno, something like [+NaDa] i guess.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:47 shlomo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:40 humblegar wrote:
Did you know Idra was a terran in Brood War and thought Protoss was the easy race (yep, let's ignore boxer, oov, nada, flash and the list goes on)? He then chose protoss for SC2, but changed during the beta to the race considered the easiest and strongest by far. Can you guess the name of the race? Zerg was OP in beta back when the roach was 1 food and not yet nerfed into oblivion. That was quite a while ago now. As for IdrA he chose Zerg because it fit his heavy macro playstyle better, and I don't see him switching races even now that many good players agree that T at least slightly OP (except for Jinro apparently).
Fucking hell, I didn't even say that - I just don't think it's AS IMBALANCED. Pre-game interveiw lucifron vs dimaga, paraphrased:
"I think Terran is stronger early game, but I don't know about later in the game..." = 100% correct.
|
Agree on SC, disagree on WC3, its such an imbalanced mess. Sorry, I just meant that war3 had the balance pendulum swing the opposite way without balance changes, it's obviously an imbalanced mess. Jinro have you ever wondered why every freaking Terran out their will suggest TvZ is their best Match-up and Every Zerg will say ZvT is their worst? I think TLO and Morrow both said they didn't want to play TvZ before their quarter final match. Might be wrong, but at least Morrow definitely said he liked TvT more.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 21 2010 00:50 Brad wrote:
@Jinro - Can you add the TLO-NaDa showmatch to the thread title please? Would be easier to add it to this thread, and not make another. I dunno, something like [+NaDa] i guess.
Will do.
|
On August 21 2010 00:55 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2010 00:50 Brad wrote:
@Jinro - Can you add the TLO-NaDa showmatch to the thread title please? Would be easier to add it to this thread, and not make another. I dunno, something like [+NaDa] i guess. Will do.
Thank you much.
|
On August 21 2010 00:47 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
There might be problems TvZ, but people complain about EVERYTHING and EVERY terran win is put down to imbalance - it's not fun.
Maybe if T players did something else than the reaper/hellion/banshee abuse into timing push/allin every damn game, it wouldn't look so cheesy and T players would get a little more (self) respect?
The fact is, T harass is very versatile (lol addons) takes very little effort, has little to no opportunity cost since you're walled anyway, while costing a lot to Z and being very challenging to repel properly. Why would I admire the T player using his crutches and sitting behind his lolwall for 20 minutes when the Z player has to really bust his ass just to survive to lair?
It's not like once you get past the harass, the Z gets a free win because his late game is so much more better, they just get the priviledge of actually playing standard once they get past that phase, but can definitely still lose because T units are just so damn efficient in general. Z effectively has to work more to win, and T has to work less because cheese will work at least a certain percentage of the time. That's why Z is underrepresented on ladder, and T overrepresented, it's not magical, it's not a mystery reason, it's not even the campaign. It's common sense. People grativate towards the path of least resistance a.k.a. Terran because it gets more wins, and it gets them with less effort overall.
Who wants to admire the guy taking that path, really?
|
no discussing balance in R&S threads!
|
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
Nada vs TLO - Yay Woot Woot.
Do we know the races played - please be Random vs Random :D
|
On August 21 2010 01:07 Sfydjklm wrote:
no discussing balance in R&S threads!
They have been at it for three straight days. There is no stopping them. Release the Krakken i say.
|
Do someone know when the Nada - TLO showmatch start tomorrow in Central European Time?
I have tried to look at the official site, but can't find anything there, and it is not listed here. That quake-tournament, perhaps if we can look up when that one starts we can figure out when the showmatch start?
|
wouldve liked to see Idra play Nada but heck i dont know if a ZvZ would be that interesting..but does Nada play Z in SC2?
|
Maybe if T players did something else than the reaper/hellion/banshee abuse into timing push/allin every damn game, it wouldn't look so cheesy and T players would get a little more (self) respect?
The fact is, T harass is very versatile (lol addons) takes very little effort, has little to no opportunity cost since you're walled anyway, while costing a lot to Z and being very challenging to repel properly. Why would I admire the T player using his crutches and sitting behind his lolwall for 20 minutes when the Z player has to really bust his ass just to survive to lair?
It's not like once you get past the harass, the Z gets a free win because his late game is so much more better, they just get the priviledge of actually playing standard once they get past that phase, but can definitely still lose because T units are just so damn efficient in general. Z effectively has to work more to win, and T has to work less because cheese will work at least a certain percentage of the time. That's why Z is underrepresented on ladder, and T overrepresented, it's not magical, it's not a mystery reason, it's not even the campaign. It's common sense. People grativate towards the path of least resistance a.k.a. Terran because it gets more wins, and it gets them with less effort overall. Don't you feel like the game should be balanced around the potential of each race in the hands of a master? In this case, a race can be "the easiest" and still lose every game, because it has lower potential. Something might be frustrating to play against, but that doesn't mean it will be an effective strategy down the line. Think baneling bust or maybe the "toss building in Terran's base at the beginning" strat, I'm not sure whether r not people still do that.
|
NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
holy fucking shit, this is unreal, oh my god
Carmac you are a legend!!!! <3<3<3<3<3
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
