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On July 22 2010 01:43 Misder wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 23:48 citi.zen wrote:
Oh, I could also be persuaded to vote for misder if you guys like him more than zeks. Uh... Is there a reason why I'm under suspicion? If there is, what is it?
Glad you asked! I am intrigued by the trifecta of you/zeks/BC. If one of you turned red, I'd heavily suspect the others. The converse obviously does not necessarily hold.
BC concluded in his long post that zeks and misder are likely innocents who left the hyperbola bandwagon when they realized what a monster of a creation is was, and that it was probably leading to lynching an innocent player (hello day 1 lynches). Seems like a pretty strong thing to infer, but the man has mad experience, so who knows. Both zeks and misder use the same argument for their switch: they never voted with any conviction, only to make hyperbola become more active. Then foolishness got killed and the ever so helpful misder put together a post on foolishnes' accusations about me and darth, conveniently forgetting to include the fact that foolishness voted for BC. This post was an obvious attempt to start suspicion, but mysteriously misder never followed up on it once Amber 'splained it to him:
On July 21 2010 03:29 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 03:21 Misder wrote:
I would also like to point out this post by citi.zen. [nr: the rest of the quote does not paste well - go find it yourselves] Because then it puts the finger-pointers in a position when players, such as yourself, go back and analyze the posts. This is actually a common ruse to cause the town to run around in circles as townies battle townies. It's not to say your analysis is invalid, but it could just be a breadcrumb trail to no-wheres-ville setup and managed by the mafia.
Most townies enjoy debating their hunches, mafia prefers to start shit and then lay low - this is exactly what you did here.
So yeah, I think you make an excellent lynching candidate. If you turned red we'd have a lead on other players. If you are not lynched you or zeks should get checked tonight (not BC - if red he would be the GF who put himself up for checking).
That's my little conspiracy theory of the day!
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DarthThienAn is playing this game as though he were Chezinu... which is not the way DarthThienAn plays at all. I think Pyrrhuloxia (why does everyone in this game have impossible to spell names) has the best explanation, and says things I was thinking on my own - Darth is playing as though he were Village Idiot, and for some reason that's given him Teflon armor against suspicion for the most part - there have been scattered people saying "Hey, wait a minute" but nobody's really listening, everyone is obsessed over Chaoser/Subversion/me.
As far as those 3...
I know I am green, but you guys are going to have to decide whether you believe me or not. Subversion's "mistake" isn't even a mistake at all, and you guys all jumped in and tried to create something out of it - not really the direction town should be going in. Chaoser I still find slightly suspicious, but he's been pretty willing to post and to defend himself - as long as he clarifies a few of his contradictions, I'd be okay with not lynching him. He might be a good target for rolecheck tonight, though. I dunno.
For now,
##Unvote Abstain
##Vote: DarthThienAn
Because he is the most suspicious, I think abstaining should only be used as a placeholder, and we're running out of time in this day. Plus, his death will give us at least some information, which is still better than the next-to-no information we would get from lynching subversion, chaoser, or me.
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On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Rastaban (and others), to clarify my double lynch vote: it's a bet that after tonights actions we will have more than 1 target on the next day. In my experience Days 3 or 4 are the best time to start the double lynch (which means for Day 3 we vote for double lynch on Day 2, etc). I don't like waiting until Day 5 for double lynch because too many townies can die by that time and it makes it harder to use one of our most dangerous weapons against the mafia. If you guys aren't voting for it today, you should strongly consider voting for it tomorrow.
I can live with this. From my standpoint, I still don't believe there is enough conviction to risk wasting one of our weapons, though I will most likely be voting for a double lynch for Day 4 (voting during the next day).
Re: DTA -
I should thank pyrr for doing a really thorough analysis here. I do think it's possible the mafia took that gambit of not killing DTA to make him appear more red (see Foolish's quote... "if the mafia don't kill you tonight you're red" [that was paraphrased]). So, I want to see how he responds to Pyrr's accusation before I decide if I want to vote for him. The pressures pretty strong already. ANd i gotta say i'm all but convinced on this one.
Pyrr dropped a bomb with this one. Reading through it is very convincing, and given how DarthThienAn has been playing this game ("Chezinu"-style but even more useless) at the very most he is playing very anti-town. I'm tempted to place my vote on him, but as we still have around 11 hours till deadline the fact that DarthThienAn hasn't been able to defend himself means that my vote will be staying upon an abstain now. After all, innocent till proven guilty, right?
Something that should be taken into consideration is the dichotomy of the battle. Still so early on, I don't think it's worth it for Mafia (if Pyrrhuloxia) is indeed so to make such a direct attack, especially since Mafia know that the victim will indubitably flip town-aligned. Of course, that could be WiFOM speaking but it doesn't seem likely. If DarthThienAn is not Mafia, then we probably have a town-on-town fight that the Mafia are either going to slightly help stir on or sit back and enjoy. Make no mistake, DarthThienAn is a strong player. I have read over a few of his past games now and he is quiet coherent and forceful when he wants to be. Hopefully this calling-out will force him to be more of a benefit to the town.
In regards to Subversion: The more I read into it, the more that I think people still accusing Subversion are just looking for an easy target. As Roffles has mentioned, Subversion still seems new to this game, and blunders do occur. If they continue to happen, we can easily hold him accountable for them, and his trail is easy enough to backtrack.
The same holds true with BrownBear. He (conclusively figure out it's a he from reading past games) can be a very well-spoken player, and was very pro-town in the first game he subbed in for, where he got into a bit of a sticky situation with a strategic modkill scenario. He's attempted to make amends for his Day 1 actions, though if his posting slips back into the unacceptable zone he's already on radar.
Chaoser seems to be a separate ticket, though if he is red he is not as strong a threat as DarthThienAn can potentially be. I assume Chaoser's experiment was to get Subversion to claim, though I think at this point we've already had enough soft claiming to get us through.
With all this being said and done, right now it seems like that along with the rest of the town, we're all waiting for DarthThienAn to speak. Hopefully he'll finally calm down and give us some legible answers, and hopefully we'll be able to bring out the great town player in him.
For now, since I am heading out for the day I will once again
##Vote abstain
as a placeholder. I will most definitely return before deadline and will change my vote to DarthThienAn, but at this point I'm unwilling to vote for Subversion or BrownBear. Chaoser, too, can wait for a later day, and we will pressure him to post better.
People that need to post more: tree.hugger, Divinek, lakrismamma, SouthRawrea, ~OpZ~, BloodyC0bbler, d3_crescentia, Tricode, and zeks.
I am just going through the player roster thinking "who haven't I seen on the thread" in a while, so this list may be subjectively based upon my memory. For the most part though, I think this is correct. Don't let inactivity hurt us, town. Just because we're embroiled in this current situation it doesn't mean we let potential Mafia just sit back and do nothing.
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Reposting as to edit above: after the vote, where it says "... and will change my vote to DarthThienAn,..." I forgot to include the conditional "if he does not provide a satisfactory defense/explanation" at the end of it.
See you in a few hours, town.
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On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
Rastaban (and others), to clarify my double lynch vote: it's a bet that after tonights actions we will have more than 1 target on the next day. In my experience Days 3 or 4 are the best time to start the double lynch (which means for Day 3 we vote for double lynch on Day 2, etc). I don't like waiting until Day 5 for double lynch because too many townies can die by that time and it makes it harder to use one of our most dangerous weapons against the mafia. If you guys aren't voting for it today, you should strongly consider voting for it tomorrow.
Fair enough, I prefer waiting until Day 4 usually, except in circumstances where the mafia have already been outed (successful DT check night 1, obvious scum, a lynch giving us a ton of information, that kind of thing. We've had none of that so far, so I'm not going to vote for it. I understand your logic though.
On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:It's "Infundibulum."
I swear, everyone in this game has an impossible to spell/pronounce name. Maybe it's a defense mechanism. Nobody will vote for you because they don't want to be bothered to spell it out 
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On July 22 2010 00:39 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Rastaban (and others), to clarify my double lynch vote: it's a bet that after tonights actions we will have more than 1 target on the next day. In my experience Days 3 or 4 are the best time to start the double lynch (which means for Day 3 we vote for double lynch on Day 2, etc). I don't like waiting until Day 5 for double lynch because too many townies can die by that time and it makes it harder to use one of our most dangerous weapons against the mafia. If you guys aren't voting for it today, you should strongly consider voting for it tomorrow. Re: DTA - I should thank pyrr for doing a really thorough analysis here. I do think it's possible the mafia took that gambit of not killing DTA to make him appear more red (see Foolish's quote... "if the mafia don't kill you tonight you're red" [that was paraphrased]). So, I want to see how he responds to Pyrr's accusation before I decide if I want to vote for him. The pressures pretty strong already. ANd i gotta say i'm all but convinced on this one. Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 14:27 youngminii wrote:
My suspicion on infindouwioej4l5k23wtgjfxvpcohinkium is still here, it's just a lot smaller than everything else going on right now. It's "Infundibulum."
Thanks for clarifying, I still stand by it being to early today, but I can see why we may need to act sooner rather than later.
Going to review the current accusations, as BB's recent activity seems more townie (though he may just be trying to move suspicion) and then see where I should put my vote.
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On July 21 2010 19:16 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Now you may think that it is too obvious for the mafia to kill off someone who publicly calls them out. It's not. It's good strategy. In fact, I myself killed off Foolishness in a game I won because he was one of the few suspicious of me. If someone suspects you, they won't magically think you're innocent if you let them survive the night. People's heuristics for determining who they will vote for don't tend to shift too wildly over the course of a game. Even if people make a mistaken vote early, they will tend to justify it ex post facto and perhaps continue it (maybe what I'm doing here, but I think I have some good logic to back up my gut feeling). If you are mafia, and a member is getting 3rd/4th place in votes, even with just a couple, that member could be in 1st a few days later. By killing off the people who are suspicious of you, even if their reasons suck, you get talked about less and you literally shave off your vote total. It's not too bad of a strategy to just play whack-a-mole going after all your public detractors because you can always just say you're getting framed. I've been there, done that.
This post here, to me, was the most informative. I have never had the chance to play a red role before and such added perspective really helped me decide on a lynch target. I'm also quite intrigued by why DTA didn't die yet; he's a very strong player (not so much this game though) and should be a priority kill.
##vote: DarthThienAn
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On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Unvote BrownBear
##Vote: Subversion
Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute.
I downright disagree with this. First of all, as Roffles said, I do not believe that little sentence "The mafia aren't making too many mistakes" is grounds to lynch him. Lynching Subversion will gain us NO info whatsoever, since I believe he is NOT mafia.
Also, Pyrr, great article and I do believe we SHOULD keep an eye on darth. However, when deciding who to lynch, I belive we should lynch who is more likely to be mafia (aka Chaoser or Darth). I believe Chaoser is more likely to be mafia. The next day, we can focus on darth.
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On July 22 2010 03:00 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Unvote BrownBear
##Vote: Subversion
Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute. Lynching Subversion will gain us NO info whatsoever, since I believe he is NOT mafia
This isn't true. We get a lot of info even if he's town side, because a lot of the town is divided in two camps for and against subversion.
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On July 22 2010 03:04 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 03:00 Pandain wrote:On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Unvote BrownBear
##Vote: Subversion
Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute. Lynching Subversion will gain us NO info whatsoever, since I believe he is NOT mafia This isn't true. We get a lot of info even if he's town side, because a lot of the town is divided in two camps for and against subversion.
Haha, omg (I'm an idiot). Still, lynching an innocent just to see "whos for or against him" is a bad idea in my eyes.
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On July 22 2010 03:00 LaXerCannon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 19:16 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Now you may think that it is too obvious for the mafia to kill off someone who publicly calls them out. It's not. It's good strategy. In fact, I myself killed off Foolishness in a game I won because he was one of the few suspicious of me. If someone suspects you, they won't magically think you're innocent if you let them survive the night. People's heuristics for determining who they will vote for don't tend to shift too wildly over the course of a game. Even if people make a mistaken vote early, they will tend to justify it ex post facto and perhaps continue it (maybe what I'm doing here, but I think I have some good logic to back up my gut feeling). If you are mafia, and a member is getting 3rd/4th place in votes, even with just a couple, that member could be in 1st a few days later. By killing off the people who are suspicious of you, even if their reasons suck, you get talked about less and you literally shave off your vote total. It's not too bad of a strategy to just play whack-a-mole going after all your public detractors because you can always just say you're getting framed. I've been there, done that.
This post here, to me, was the most informative. I have never had the chance to play a red role before and such added perspective really helped me decide on a lynch target. I'm also quite intrigued by why DTA didn't die yet; he's a very strong player (not so much this game though) and should be a priority kill. ##vote: DarthThienAn
If we play the game with this logic then BC should have been killed already, but he's still alive.
Opz is still alive, he's a strong player too.
What about Roffles, he's incredibly cunning and plays the part of mafioso and townie very well.
Pyrr should have been killed based upon this logic as well.
Infun should have probably been a good target.
You're playing the game very counter-intuitively. You're insisting that strong players should die, not suspicious players. DTA is playing the Chezinu card, which is common play. There's always guaranteed to be one of those idiot players in the game. The host himself has played this card before in games...
I can't believe the people that are coming forward insisting that killing subversion will gain no knowledge. Killing DTA just verifies his play-style. We can actually tie a connection between DTA and Subversion as well as the people who are trying to avoid talking about DTA at all, or those who are supporting one lynch target over another.
I'm not going to sit here and say killing DTA is wrong, he is still a target due to his play-style this game, but he's going to give us less information than lynching Subversion. Do whatever you want but don't justify your lynch vote by saying DTA is a good player and I think other people's opinions are strong, so this must be a good choice. Sheep.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 22 2010 02:09 citi.zen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 01:43 Misder wrote:On July 21 2010 23:48 citi.zen wrote:
Oh, I could also be persuaded to vote for misder if you guys like him more than zeks. Uh... Is there a reason why I'm under suspicion? If there is, what is it? Glad you asked! I am intrigued by the trifecta of you/zeks/BC. If one of you turned red, I'd heavily suspect the others. The converse obviously does not necessarily hold. BC concluded in his long post that zeks and misder are likely innocents who left the hyperbola bandwagon when they realized what a monster of a creation is was, and that it was probably leading to lynching an innocent player (hello day 1 lynches). Seems like a pretty strong thing to infer, but the man has mad experience, so who knows. Both zeks and misder use the same argument for their switch: they never voted with any conviction, only to make hyperbola become more active. Then foolishness got killed and the ever so helpful misder put together a post on foolishnes' accusations about me and darth, conveniently forgetting to include the fact that foolishness voted for BC. This post was an obvious attempt to start suspicion, but mysteriously misder never followed up on it once Amber 'splained it to him: Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 03:29 Amber[LighT] wrote:On July 21 2010 03:21 Misder wrote:
I would also like to point out this post by citi.zen. [nr: the rest of the quote does not paste well - go find it yourselves] Because then it puts the finger-pointers in a position when players, such as yourself, go back and analyze the posts. This is actually a common ruse to cause the town to run around in circles as townies battle townies. It's not to say your analysis is invalid, but it could just be a breadcrumb trail to no-wheres-ville setup and managed by the mafia. Most townies enjoy debating their hunches, mafia prefers to start shit and then lay low - this is exactly what you did here. So yeah, I think you make an excellent lynching candidate. If you turned red we'd have a lead on other players. If you are not lynched you or zeks should get checked tonight (not BC - if red he would be the GF who put himself up for checking). That's my little conspiracy theory of the day!
+ Show Spoiler +On July 19 2010 08:08 Hyperbola wrote:Guys, really? Okay so I'm pretty much lynched because you people can't take a joke. So I'm leaving this as my legacy: People I think are mafia or atleast seem fishy:Brown BearShow nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:29 BrownBear wrote:
Ahhhh shti!
I am back, sorry. Is it too late to avoid modkill? Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 06:31 BrownBear wrote:
Whew, looks like I got back in time. Sorry about that. Time to go read the thread. Really dude? Jumping on a bandwagon before even reading the thread? youngminiiShow nested quote +On July 18 2010 21:01 youngminii wrote:
Actually, I'm not going to overlook it. Why would you place a vote on me 'just in case'? Especially after you heard BC say I was a strong player (which citi.zen evidently disagrees with)? You have these two guys criticising my post when it's not even serious, you jump on this bandwagon and then put a placeholder vote on me just in case?
Does this not strike you as scummy at all? Overly scummy but scummy nonetheless? In fact, I think this is the scummiest post I have seen all game (not that long). However, I don't think you're really that bad at this game and even a mediocre scum wouldn't do that kind of mistake. Will need confirmation on other more experienced TL mafia players on your meta. You are entirely too defensive when a person puts a vote on you as a placeholder. Either you are scum or a very nervous blue. You also endorse no lynching on the first day to appear to be "pro-life" and "for the town". I really don't see your reasoning behind this because a random shot in the dark of inactives or suspicious players can in fact nab a red. And if it doesn't you only lose a green because a blue would at least roleclaim or try to join up with trust circles to avoid getting lynched in this manner. (Divided blues that don't make connections are really hindering the town). SiNiquityI had absolutely no evidence against you before but now you are starting to stink of scum at first you took my accusal of you as a joke and brushed it off, but when people started accusing me of being mafia you saw an opportunity and went into action to provide as much evidence as you could find against me by even looking into past games. Then you just completely shut your mouth and is now waiting for the situation to close to start talking again (afraid you'll say something to bring attention to you and me being the perfect scapegoat). Also your previous posts were really try-hard in my opinion. You contributed absolutely nothing by typing up lengthy posts that just summarized what everyone said. Besides that you clarified and discussed some rules of the game and such. You want to make it seem like you are contributing and keep a neutral and non aggressive stance like a reporter so no one would suspect you. This could just be your playstyle but it seems like a very cautious red one to me. LaXerCannonShow nested quote +On July 18 2010 09:30 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 18 2010 09:04 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
If we randomly pick someone, we have a better chance of getting a blue then a red. Why don't we try voting for who we think is red? It's not like the game will automatically get easier for us as it goes on, since there aren't any clues. Also, at this point everyone's votes are spread out so we are nearly guaranteed an innocent lynch. Getting everyone to agree to vote for the random could be awfully tough.
IF we wanted to do the random thing, we could tie it in advance to something numerical in one or both of the playoff games tonight. Like number of factories made by WeMade players, or that number divided by two, or taking the number of letters in each winning player's ID and looping back to 1 if it goes over 30. It wouldn't be random, but we could independently agree on it, and none of us could influence it in advance. We don't know the distribution of red/blue/green in the list so it is almost as good as random unless the reds get us to agree on a bad number (like maybe they get us to agree on something times 2, which would never land on the first person on the list). We can take this step further by listing inactives in reverse order and numbering them from 1-X, use a number we obtain from the second paragraph and count through the list, looping when needed. I'm getting carried away here... I think lynching an inactive player is the best course of action. I also think we should get a list of players who are new to this mafia game so we know who they are. A new player who's scum can easily hide under that mask; I think it's best we can monitor them from the get go. Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 09:33 LaXerCannon wrote:
##Abstain in case I can't find it within myself to wake up early tomorrow to post (no other time >_>) Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 11:38 LaXerCannon wrote:On July 18 2010 10:40 youngminii wrote:On July 18 2010 10:13 SiNiquity wrote:On July 18 2010 09:59 youngminii wrote:On July 18 2010 09:51 Bill Murray wrote:
EVERYONE abstaining? I guess it'd no lynch. Didn't expect that to happen! Okay so everyone should abstain imo. If you have any objections to this idea, please raise it asap because we need everyone to switch their vote to abstaining. Even one vote = lynch and that will be very suspicious of the person who left their vote by 'accident'. ##Unvote Pyrr
##Vote Abstain I'm not sure I like it. The inactives will get modkilled, no one gets lynched, the mafia kills 2 more people, and then we're back at square one, no? On July 18 2010 10:16 Jayme wrote:
No-Lynch?
Oh hell no absolutely not.
I don't understand how a no-lynch is beneficial to the town if you're going to kill an inactive anyway. You learn absolutely nothing from it, you don't even have a CHANCE at hitting a red, and you're basically wasting a whole day on nothing.
No lynch is a terrible idea. If we lynch someone on the first day without any good reason there's a solid chance (12/15) that we'll hit a townie. That's 80%. There's also a better chance of lynching a blue than there is of scum. A no lynch is a gift that we should utilize instead of RVS. Bad idea, there's no incentive for town to post -> silent town = dead town Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 16:13 LaXerCannon wrote:
playoffs are done for today! my next post will be in....around 16-18 hours. First LaxerCannon recommends lynching inactives but then goes ahead and abstains. Then he goes on again about how we should just line up inactives to lynch and doesn't change his vote. Then he vanishes. This is fishy for two reasons. First the obvious contradiction, and second, the effort to try and direct suspicion away from him. He keeps pushing the idea to lynch random inactive people while the town debates over a few suspects and really does nothing but push the town in the wrong direction: not analysing the game but killing off quiet people. Then he talks about playoffs and keeps endorcing random picking ideas. That is wayy too anti-town to be a blue. And if he's green he doesn't care about the game much. ------------------------------------------------------- this is all I have now and hope I at least contributed to the game before I die sorry about trying to have fun guys :/ j/k  ~peace
I never said the only reason to vote to lynch him was to get him active. I said it was a plus.
+ Show Spoiler +blah. I don't want to abstain... but I don't know who to lynch  I vote LaXerCannon because his posts don't have any substance whatsoever. He tries to contribute, but doesn't give any astounding idea. His ideas are based on previous ideas that have been said, and doesn't say anything new. Then he distracts from the conversation. Either Hyperbola is a mafia member that is trying every attempt to get out, by making false accusations, or he is a townie who make a mistake but is trying to amend it by giving analysis. I tend to lean towards the latter. Plus, Hyperbola is now being active, which is good. If he is a mafia member, his activeness may work against him because he will have to dodge a lot to make it seem like he is a townie. If he is a townie, well, good. An active townie a very very good. Hopefully, I made the right decision...
My reason for lynching him was this
+ Show Spoiler +As for the hyperbola bandwagon: I didn't really mean to actually start the bandwagon xD I just pointed out that his posts don't provide substance at all, and his defense is very poor. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 02:06 Hyperbola wrote:
You seem pretty adamant about accusing me for like a quick post I made a while back.
Look dude, I'll spill the beans, my post against Sinequity wasn't serious. I still can't believe you haven't caught on to that by now. I accuse him for making a long post just for fun and I also didn't feel like abstaining. I also like being quiet and examining things behind the lines. What you're gonna crucify me every game for not posting often?
I'm keeping my vote on Sinequity as a placeholder, mmkay? and I think this came a way too late. Why not say this when defending himself the first time? He's just asking to be lynched...
Nothing in there said that I wanted him to be active. I changed my vote because he contributed a lot to the town even though he was under attack. No mafia member would do this. This is pro-town behavior.
The reason why I gathered up the posts from Foolishness was to see if we could find anything from his posts. It wasn't like I was making a claim based on Foolishness's posts, just making sure we didn't miss out on something that the mafia didn't want Foolishness to expand on. Foolishness was a clear advocate for lynching DTA and you (citi.zen). Mafia may have wanted to kill Foolishness before he can expand. After Amber's post, I didn't know if I was going the right direction or not. It seemed like what I was doing was not helping, so I stopped. I thought that I got my point across with original post, and I left it at that.
Do not put me in the same category as zeks or BC. I have my own suspicion of both of them... though not as thought out.
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I honestly don't understand Amber[light]'s vote on Subversion, it makes absolutely no sense to me.
Anyway, while I think chaoser is more likely to be scum than DTA, I'm not going to be all like OMG YOU SHOULDN'T VOTE FOR DTA JUST BECAUSE OF ONE POST!!! That said, I think we should have been more careful before lynching DTA because the arguments seem a bit weak. Yes, there was a whole WALL of text explaining why we should lynch DTA but if you actually read the post you'd know there are lots of flaws in it.
Let's begin dissecting Pyrr's post.
Alright, I was gonna change my vote to the reddest of BrownBear and Subversion. But, I don't really like going after either of them today so maybe I can get some of you to change your votes. My Ph.D. Dissertation on DarthTheinAnby Pyrrhuloxia The Story Thus FarDay 1 Accusation + Show Spoiler +My thoughts: hyperbola is prolly just a quick trigger townie; I'd think a mafia would be too skittish to CONTINUE with it, especially when voting is so thin at this point. Mafia wouldn't have to be desperate as of now. Townie or red, hyperbola is obviously desperate now, with so many votes against him. But the desperation started and caused the bandwagon (according to Pandain). When the hyperbola bandwagon started, voting was evened out so there wouldn't be a need for mafia to bandwagon on someone. Mafia don't really tend to bandwagon anyone day one, at least they don't start the first bandwagon. They might start a second bandwagon to save someone's ass. Doesn't really help prove anyone innocent but I think hyperbola's behavior could be townie and the voting against him could be townie too. In better words, neither action really stick out at me as suspicious but no one's exonerated. Maybe if a team of people desperately work to save him there could be something going on.
I'd like to hear why foolishness is so quiet this game. I've seen him in games as green and games as blue (DT). Both times he was really active and talkative and was somewhat of a leader with plans and so on. I've never seen him quiet and I've never seen him red. Could be an irl thing, could be something else.
Darth...'s plan to "maximize" deaths on Day 1 strikes me as poor thinking. I get that it gets us information, so this could certainly be a townie sentiment. However, I've been red in many past games and I often got pissed off at how much harder it could be to win with just one more townie alive at the end, due to a non-lynch or something similar.
At this point, my vote really is between Darth and hyperbola because it seems too late to rally the town anywhere else. Hyperbola strikes me as green running mouth. The reactions to that at least give the town something, even if he's red. Darth's hanging back and saying something that could be a subtle red move or a legitimate townie move.
Yeah I double checked his other posts, and everything else is Darth clown spamming. As someone nicely put it: he's playing like Chezinu. So I can't be made to feel guilty about voting for him. Day 1 "Refutation" by the accused, wherein he admits he should be lynched, except not, because. + Show Spoiler +In my experience, mafia rarely actually "bandwagon". One or two might hop in for the final vote to kill someone they don't like over the current top target, but usually, they just vote wherever they feel like, based on their posting and what they've said in the past.
The hyperbola bandwagon is just plain stupid imo. Anyone who was "convinced" by Siniquity's argument against hyperbola is also plain stupid. He gave poor reasoning for a random vote, but that does not make him mafia. A lot of the times, mafia play more like Siniquity, pointing out "mistakes" that townies make, and calling them scummy.
My post was to contrast YellowInk's silly no lynch suggestion. Why are we even considering that? We need information. The game is about getting information for the town ASAP so that we can lynch/KP accurately. Therefore, we lynch a someone who is not already going to be modkilled. Pandain, I was only half-joking about it. Lynch someone who has voted but is not helping the town out. Someone like me, but, preferably, not me.
And you're right, I was playing like Chezinu ^_^. He has inspired me.
I might be out for the rest of today. Before you lynch me, consider how many other people have not posted, but have voted. For instance, d3, who is currently voting for me, but has said as little as I have said.
Also, don't PM Opz, PM me!! ^^. Day 2 Accusation [spoiler] Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 03:18 Misder wrote:Foolishness's posts interest me a lot. I'm not sure if he was targeted because of his posts or because he was active, but we can look at his posts. (these posts are in backward order>.< sorry.) + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 09:31 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 09:25 Pandain wrote:Hmm time passes too fast. As this is my first mafia game, I'm extra afraid I'm going to die. So in case I die, I'll live something that players can easily check on if they want to. It's the posts by each player in the game, in case a player wants to check up on something. Tree.Hugger: + Show Spoiler +BrownBear + Show Spoiler +Oh god there are 600 posts. How could I be so stupid -.-. Unless people really want me to keep making these(which I'll of course do, gladly) I'll be doing it farily slowly. + Show Spoiler +This was harder than I thought . Oh well. You'd have an easier time if you look at lakrismamma or citi.zen If the mafia did target Foolishness for his posts, it seems to point fingers at lakrismamma or citi.zen. We can't be positive, but we can be suspicious, especially since most of Foolishness' posts are targeting citi.zen + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 08:30 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 08:22 DarthThienAn wrote:Foolishness, are you so innocent yourself? You haven't really posted at all. Unofficial Start of the Game: Your first post after it: which doesn't really say much.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561¤tpage=19#363]2nd post:[/url] A ninja abstain vote to avoid modkill. Let's see if you change it later / actually contribute.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561¤tpage=24#478]3rd post:[/url] There's the switch. You go to BC based on "bad vibes," claim busy IRL, and promise future activity.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561¤tpage=28#547]Your next post:[/url] A summary of what happened during the voting. Implies youngminii, BrownBear, and bumatlarge might all be mafia together.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561¤tpage=28#551]Next (two):[/url] Basically saying that we can't pull much from the voting patterns without more information than the vote talliers have given us.
[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133561¤tpage=28#554]Next:[/url] Bashing on me for... what, joking around a bit and still providing about as much content as you?
Gonna stop there as the other posts are pretty recent. So how much content have you provided? Not much. And all of it is within the last two pages. Sure you're busy with life and all, but maybe I'm busy with life too. Maybe we're all busy with life, except flamewheel. Sure, I might be spamming a bit here and there, but maybe I don't have much to say / don't have the time to write it all out. This isn't about me. This is about you. I gave reason for my actions. Where's your reasons on why you're acting "like Chezinu"? Most people are blind so let me spell it out for everyone. You're hiding something. It's clear that you're attitude is the result of the fact you know some information that you don't want everyone else to know. That means you're blue or red. I'm sure I'm not the only one to figure this out, and if you're blue I bet a mafia member has figured this out. And if you don't have much to say/don't have the time to write it all out, go get yourself replaced. By the way, shoving arguments against me to try to divert attention off of yourself is terrible. You should know me well enough I'm just going to keep pressuring you until you claim or until I get 75% of the town to vote for you. If you want me off your back, all you got to do is point out how someone else is obviously mafia and you're not. I mean, all you had to do there was say "I'm not mafia, citizen is clearly mafia, look at his posts; clearly scum". And if you were somewhat serious about it I'd totally divert attention off of you since citizen is such an easy kill for the town. Here, we see Foolishness attack DTA. DTA has been acting very very weird, and I agree with Foolishness about DTA hiding something. The mafia may be scared of Foolishness because of his attacks on fellow mafia members. This points fingers to DTA. Also, Foolishness makes it clear that citi.zen is a target for lynching, and that DTA could have pointed fingers to him. + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 08:12 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 08:08 DarthThienAn wrote:On July 20 2010 08:05 Foolishness wrote:On July 20 2010 08:01 DarthThienAn wrote:Guys if I die tonight, then I am mafia. Death Post: + Show Spoiler + You might as well just roleclaim whatever blue role you have to the town. I mean, if the mafia don't kill you tonight they are either stupid or you are in fact mafia. If you aren't dead after night then you should be top priority for lynch. Of course, you could just actually act normal and help us out to save you a bunch of trouble. lol. Just doing my job ^^. On another note, I think Hyberbola was Godfather, so he flipped green... I mean, BM didn't officially say that he was a townie in the night post. :D:D:D I do appreciate you making it easy for all of us on who to vote for as soon as day starts. Mafia have probably sent in their hits already. Just claim now. The earlier the better. More assertiveness. Very scary for the mafia. + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 08:05 Foolishness wrote:You might as well just roleclaim whatever blue role you have to the town. I mean, if the mafia don't kill you tonight they are either stupid or you are in fact mafia. If you aren't dead after night then you should be top priority for lynch. Of course, you could just actually act normal and help us out to save you a bunch of trouble. More attacks on DTA. I feel that this is an important quote, considering that the mafia didn't target DTA this night. + Show Spoiler +On July 20 2010 08:02 Foolishness wrote:
The ordered by player list doesn't help for anything.
The only thing that's useful out of these lists is tracking the changes of who was ahead in the voting and how they got ahead. For instance, youngminii was ahead in votes at some point (I believe), looking at who were the people that pushed Hyperbola over is what's important. You also need the timestamps of when these votes happen, in order to confirm if there was a mafia pushover.
It's been said before, mafia spread out their votes as much as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if there was only 1 mafia in the votes for youngminii and hyperbola combined. The only exception to this is if a mafia was about to be lynched, as the team would try to save that person. That's what we need to look out for. People already talked about this. That means we are on the right track. ##Vote: DarthThienAn because of his weird behavior and bring confusion. If he is a blue role or a townie, then he will need to defend himself in order to actually help the town. If he is a mafia, good.
Cool! You gave a whole bunch of Information Instead of Analysis![badtownplay] Oh hey guys, here's a bunch of stuff that was said about/by DTA and since I quoted it, you should trust me in that it points to him being mafia![/badtownplay]
Let's not let this get lost in the shuffle. Red or confused green, I don't think BrownBear is much of a threat right now.
From what I gather, DarthTheinAn is usually a pretty high profile player (won mayor two games ago). This game he is playing obstinate/quiet.
When DTA was red mayor two games ago, "Darth was also an excellent mafia player, managing to sweep his way into office on day 1, but he did overstep his boundaries just a little bit on the last day, and his position as mayor actually worked against him as he was under intense scrutiny, which led to his downfall." Source for that is BrownBear, btw, so... take that into account however you will. But it seems to me if DTA was red this game he'd be trying to take a lower profile this time around.
So you're saying someone that is as good as DTA (you're all making him out to be quite good, I'm not too sure how good he is), is bad enough to completely swap their playing style after their original style worked bar one or two mistakes? You really think he'd go from one extreme to the other as scum to 'avoid' suspicion? That's like the total opposite of what would happen (case in point: it's happening right now).
Oh yeah, intuition is awesome. We should always rely on our intuition to win us this game of analysis. I mean, clearly your intuition was correct about Foolishness being blue/red. Again, you're saying just because DTA is taking a low profile that he's scum. You can't just say "he's playing different, scum!" WHY does playing different make him scum, WHY does playing the total extreme of the way he played before make him scum. What about real life issues? What about the fact that he would be responding to these accusations if he really was mafia and was simply lurking?
Now you may think that it is too obvious for the mafia to kill off someone who publicly calls them out. It's not. It's good strategy. In fact, I myself killed off Foolishness in a game I won because he was one of the few suspicious of me. If someone suspects you, they won't magically think you're innocent if you let them survive the night. People's heuristics for determining who they will vote for don't tend to shift too wildly over the course of a game. Even if people make a mistaken vote early, they will tend to justify it ex post facto and perhaps continue it (maybe what I'm doing here, but I think I have some good logic to back up my gut feeling). If you are mafia, and a member is getting 3rd/4th place in votes, even with just a couple, that member could be in 1st a few days later. By killing off the people who are suspicious of you, even if their reasons suck, you get talked about less and you literally shave off your vote total. It's not too bad of a strategy to just play whack-a-mole going after all your public detractors because you can always just say you're getting framed. I've been there, done that.
Cause and effect. Just because Foolishness was pointing at DTA doesn't mean that it's why he died. I mean, it COULD be but the way you're selling it is as if it's the absolute truth.
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY / THE THREATDOWN / TLDR CENTRAL
DarthTheinAn
1. Never defends himself with logic
2. Responded to Foolishness with a distorted counter attack and no refutation.
3. Blatantly ignores legitimate criticism to snark at strawmen instead.
4. Talks often, but without contributing anything new and useful.
5. Changes his vote often, usually without explanation.
6. Constantly "pretends" to be mafia. No red would ever be so daring!
7. Doesn't do shit all else.
8. Is supposedly capable of much better than this.
That's just complete bullshit. I don't even know how the fuck you had the balls to come up with that list that completely condemns DTA and criticizes his play. You're assuming he's some horrible player and basing his scum play based on this assumption, when the general consensus is that DTA is a good player.
But hey, I don't mind if you lynch him. As you guys have said, he hasn't been very helpful this game. I mean hell, if he's blue/green it only buys me credibility which is needed for the late game.
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I am inclined to think that Subversions comment is just a newbie slip up. Surely new scum players would be more attentive to what they post. I would think that more skilled players would try to assume the roles of infiltrator or have more varying playstyles.
Double lynch seems rather early to be used; I think a good time would be the next day.
I would like to note that I had never knew about the vote count at all when I unvoted Hyperbola (you can believe it or not) and I would've unvoted him regardless of the vote count. I said I was going to unvote him a couple hours before that anyway.
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Puh that took a while to red through!
Im not saying Subversion is innocent but I believe that we have much stronger candidates for a lynch then him. I font get how the suspicion for Zeks landed on him in the bandwagon instead.
Brownbear haven't acted that scummy either in my opinion. I think he is just an inactive townie that got accused and got active as a result.
DTA is playing disturbingly for town but I don't believe him to be mafia either.
Roffels is playing too low key for my taste. He haven't said much at all this game compared to his usual playing style. he wants rages against Brownbear and then Subversion just to take back his vote once the town have noted his accusations..
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Going through this thread since I got home from work last night and began to filter through the vote info day 1, but more importantly, who seemed to push for random bandwagons. What is more surprising is that these bandwagons formed AFTER they had solidly defended themselves (hyper/young). Yet even with a defense, people were “unconvinced” of their innocence.
The youngminii vote list is odd, after two defense posts and solid ones for day 1 at that, he still garnered people vote for him
Infundi started the vote train with On July 18 2010 20:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
I'm going out for the rest of the day and i dunno if i'll be back in time for the deadline. I'm gonna put my vote on youngminii, just in case anything happens in that direction. Otherwise i hope you guys are smart enough not to screw things up while i'm gone :p
#vote youngminii
It’s a “placeholder” vote. He then argues with young and refuses to vote swap.
Xelin posts a reason to vote for young very quickly after,
On July 18 2010 23:49 XeliN wrote:
Actually scrap that, I've just gone over your posts individually Youngminii and your coming across so scummy to me. You argue everyone to abstain on the first day, or vote for someone that is going to be killed anyway. That directly helps mafia, and further reduces any information that we could have going into Day 2, you've also tried to directly influence what any blues in the game do on the first day and instead of addressing the points infundulum makes against you, you flip reverse it and accuse him of being Red.
Remove vote Vote youngminii
He is gut shotting, not a very solid way to do it day 1.
On July 19 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
###vote youngminii
if I have to trust someone I trust xelin. I'm going to follow his decisions till the end of the day at least.
Sorry got to the game early so I read some posts :D
This post intrigues me, a lot. HE is blind trusting someone to follow for voting, which makes the third vote of a bandwagon that formed in the last 17 hours of the day, all 3 voting with in a page of eachother. Super odd to be formed a) so late and b) with next to no real debate.
On July 19 2010 02:07 Roffles wrote:
OpZ just has that sort of playstyle. Comes in, makes a couple accusations, then starts some shit. At least it demonstrates he's here.
Gonna unabstain now that I've read the thread.
##Unvote: Abstain
##Vote: youngminii
Not voting simply lets scum get off a free shot. Don't see the real reasoning behind not voting. Shit, I'd rather RNG someone than let em off the hook for Day 1. Anyways, I'd refrain from voting for someone who hasn't posted yet. Chances are they'll be modkilled within the next couple of days anyways. Why waste a lynch on someone who's gonna die later on?
Odd vote choice as he has read the thread, comments little for his vote, but goes onto say how he would prefer to have the days lynch go, seems fair enough of a reason to avoid a no lynch.
On July 19 2010 07:53 Jayme wrote:
The whole mini Hyperbola bandwagon was rather funny. He comes in and says a few lines and then 3 people just jump on him like a pack of wild dogs.
Initially this bandwagon looked rather harmless but now he's got 7 votes on him and unless a miracle happens it looks like he's being lynched.
That being said anybody who advocates no lynch as much as Youngminii has is crazy sketchy while at the same time ignoring why people have said it's a terrible thing to do. In the end it's rarely the blues that actually win you the game and it's a few good analytical townies that save the day. If a sudden bandwagon comes up and all of a sudden a detective gets killed you have yourself at the very least a strong suspect list.
SO yea
##Unvote
##Vote: Youngminii
Even if you're townie your discussion sidetracked us like crazy.
Of all the votes for young, this one strikes me as the most reasonable, as it is voting based on things he has said, and things he disagrees with and is voting for it. Now, that that is done, lets go see what day 2 looks like for these 5.
On July 20 2010 22:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Why is it that all of a sudden d3 claims he was protected and BrownBear becomes the official 'active' townie with all of this great insight.
Up until about 12 hours ago (last time I checked the thread) he was nowhere to be found, and now that 1 person gave him something to run with, he's invaded about 2/3's of the last 2 pages with nonsense analysis about d3. What's even worse is that he wants our "other" veteran to roleclaim.
ATTN OTHER VETERAN: DO NOT ROLECLAIM!!!!
The goal of the veteran, as stated numerous times, is to be the meatshield. His vote is only worth 1, regardless of how long he is left in the game. His job is to soak damage up from night kills. By outing our veterans, we are pretty much giving the mafia enough information to say "don't hit these players." I'm against that plan completely, and I'm against BrownBear.
Hopefully the DT's are working their magic from last night and getting in contact with the players they checked. The DT role is pretty black/white and very strong in this game, so we need to keep those guys alive. The DT's should form their own circles and use the players they checked as voice-boxes. The players who have been checked should, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, reveal to any other player who the DT is unless they are verified. The only way the DT circles should combine is if AND ONLY IF by chance a DT checks another DT. Please be smart about this guys.
I'm sticking with the opinion of the previous night to lynch the most useless player:
##Vote: BrownBear
I'll consider changing my vote if some of the more 'influential players' have a better suggestion.
This vote is a completely different style, levels out with what he said the day before of not having time, here he obviously did as it’s a moderately informed vote. HOWEVER he later does this
On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Unvote BrownBear
##Vote: Subversion
Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute.
Here shows that rather than being certain of his choices, he going bandwagon to bandwagon. Subversion has had far to many people jump on him for being a bad player when the kid is new. And now another player, who should know better based on experience, is jumping at him. Seriously fishy imo. Very little activity overall and hoping onto bandwagons is all hes really doing.
On July 21 2010 20:25 XeliN wrote:
I'm personally not convinced about Brownbear whatsoever, his suggestions and arguments may be poor but he has not acted in a way I would expect a mafia too, his reaction to peoples accusations is far more fitting with how townies respond (although this is WiFOM, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Brown would not attempt to defend himself in a manner he hoped to portray as a green reaction if he were mafia)
Out of the two candidates my inclination is for either Darth or Chaoser, the arguments against Subversion have seemed quite astute but quite frankly the actions of Darth and Chaoser so far concern me more, Darth from my past experience is extremely logical, helpful and influential. He has been none of these things this game and in the past I have only seen him in a town role. This shift in character//style would be the main reason I suspect Darth.
Chaoser has been exceptionally inconsistent so far, Pandain has outlined most of my reasoning quite well on page 39, but to surmise his arguing against "no-lynching" in order to criticise a player then abstaining, using the argument "these two players are more suspicious//more evidence against them than me". This line of argument is almost laughable and reminds me of the playground type reaction "Hey don't pick on me... look at that kid... he can't even play football and he's ugly as hell".
##Vote DarthThienAn
Out of Chaoser and Darth I would consider the latter more dangerous in a mafia role so I'll place it there.
Going into description of who he thinks should be lynched based off two major candiates. Although DTA is a more recent bandwagon (well revival of one)
On July 21 2010 08:20 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 06:02 chaoser wrote:
Also, I'm going to put in my vote for Subversion. So far I don't know how I feel about BrownBear. At first I wanted to vote him. He's been playing badly and didn't do anything day one. But then at the same time people jumped all over voting for him in the beginning until just recently when people switched to Subversion, or at least it feels like that.
Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left.
##vote Subversion I personally understand the brownbear vote because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Subversion's strange comments have been well...strange and I'm really itching to vote for him because his foot in mouth syndrome could get us in trouble later in the game when saying something stupid can have catastrophic consequences. That being said
##Vote:Subversion
This vote worries me. He starts by saying “I was going to vote for x” then immediately swaps his opinion to someone who has made a few minor slip ups (possible newb?) but votes out of fear of him saying something he shouldn’t. Odd reason to kill someone now, sounds like a pm land reason, although I have no way to prove that.
To my knowledge, Infundi has just voted for double lynch today, and Roffles still hasn’t voted.
Now looking at this, I see a few really oddly done votes, and it continues today.
Amber seems to vote for whichever wagon at the time is attracting the most people, hopping onto Youngminii near its beginning, then proceeding to jump on BB when it was in its prime, now hes hopped over to subversion. This is insanely odd to me.
Next we have jayme, doing very similar things, hopping onto popular wagon without really contributing much to the game other than hopping onto the wagon with a simple reason of why he joined it. His reason day 1 was sound, his reason right now not so much.
I would also say as a minor link that potentially means nothing at this point, but both amber and jayme have voted together twice now (provided this vote stays final).
NOW, lets talk about the last days playing. WHAT THE HELL GUYS. I am gone for a day, and seriously return to you all attacking well everyone
Youngminii vs chaoser
pandain vs chaoser
Chaoser vs young/pandain
everyone and their puppy vs subversion
Shit jumping randomly out to attack dta
people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity.
Lakrismamma attempting to start a fight with roffles based on inactivity (pot calling the kettle black?)
The amount of just literally piles of crap to weed through is agonizingly annoying to read. ALL of responsible for this all should take a step bad and really see what you are doing. Because of all this nonsense there is really next to no real candidate for a lynch, instead its a bunch of minor bandwagons people can fan/hide in. If the group of you mainly responsible for this is town, shame on you guys, you should know better. Start reading what people are saying, not just arguing a gut shot.
As its too damn late to try and coordinate on who to vote on, I AM choosing amber for having two days worth of sketchy voting habits + bandwagon hopping.
##vote amber[light]
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
??
I never voted on Day 2. I just think BrownBear played Day 1 like a moron, and that Subversion's tactics are odd/newblike, but not necessarily Mafia like.
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On July 22 2010 04:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Going through this thread since I got home from work last night and began to filter through the vote info day 1, but more importantly, who seemed to push for random bandwagons. What is more surprising is that these bandwagons formed AFTER they had solidly defended themselves (hyper/young). Yet even with a defense, people were “unconvinced” of their innocence. The youngminii vote list is odd, after two defense posts and solid ones for day 1 at that, he still garnered people vote for him Infundi started the vote train with Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 20:52 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:
I'm going out for the rest of the day and i dunno if i'll be back in time for the deadline. I'm gonna put my vote on youngminii, just in case anything happens in that direction. Otherwise i hope you guys are smart enough not to screw things up while i'm gone :p
#vote youngminii It’s a “placeholder” vote. He then argues with young and refuses to vote swap. Xelin posts a reason to vote for young very quickly after, Show nested quote +On July 18 2010 23:49 XeliN wrote:
Actually scrap that, I've just gone over your posts individually Youngminii and your coming across so scummy to me. You argue everyone to abstain on the first day, or vote for someone that is going to be killed anyway. That directly helps mafia, and further reduces any information that we could have going into Day 2, you've also tried to directly influence what any blues in the game do on the first day and instead of addressing the points infundulum makes against you, you flip reverse it and accuse him of being Red.
Remove vote Vote youngminii He is gut shotting, not a very solid way to do it day 1. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
###vote youngminii
if I have to trust someone I trust xelin. I'm going to follow his decisions till the end of the day at least.
Sorry got to the game early so I read some posts :D This post intrigues me, a lot. HE is blind trusting someone to follow for voting, which makes the third vote of a bandwagon that formed in the last 17 hours of the day, all 3 voting with in a page of eachother. Super odd to be formed a) so late and b) with next to no real debate. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 02:07 Roffles wrote:
OpZ just has that sort of playstyle. Comes in, makes a couple accusations, then starts some shit. At least it demonstrates he's here.
Gonna unabstain now that I've read the thread.
##Unvote: Abstain
##Vote: youngminii
Not voting simply lets scum get off a free shot. Don't see the real reasoning behind not voting. Shit, I'd rather RNG someone than let em off the hook for Day 1. Anyways, I'd refrain from voting for someone who hasn't posted yet. Chances are they'll be modkilled within the next couple of days anyways. Why waste a lynch on someone who's gonna die later on? Odd vote choice as he has read the thread, comments little for his vote, but goes onto say how he would prefer to have the days lynch go, seems fair enough of a reason to avoid a no lynch. Show nested quote +On July 19 2010 07:53 Jayme wrote:
The whole mini Hyperbola bandwagon was rather funny. He comes in and says a few lines and then 3 people just jump on him like a pack of wild dogs.
Initially this bandwagon looked rather harmless but now he's got 7 votes on him and unless a miracle happens it looks like he's being lynched.
That being said anybody who advocates no lynch as much as Youngminii has is crazy sketchy while at the same time ignoring why people have said it's a terrible thing to do. In the end it's rarely the blues that actually win you the game and it's a few good analytical townies that save the day. If a sudden bandwagon comes up and all of a sudden a detective gets killed you have yourself at the very least a strong suspect list.
SO yea
##Unvote
##Vote: Youngminii
Even if you're townie your discussion sidetracked us like crazy. Of all the votes for young, this one strikes me as the most reasonable, as it is voting based on things he has said, and things he disagrees with and is voting for it. Now, that that is done, lets go see what day 2 looks like for these 5. Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 22:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Why is it that all of a sudden d3 claims he was protected and BrownBear becomes the official 'active' townie with all of this great insight.
Up until about 12 hours ago (last time I checked the thread) he was nowhere to be found, and now that 1 person gave him something to run with, he's invaded about 2/3's of the last 2 pages with nonsense analysis about d3. What's even worse is that he wants our "other" veteran to roleclaim.
ATTN OTHER VETERAN: DO NOT ROLECLAIM!!!!
The goal of the veteran, as stated numerous times, is to be the meatshield. His vote is only worth 1, regardless of how long he is left in the game. His job is to soak damage up from night kills. By outing our veterans, we are pretty much giving the mafia enough information to say "don't hit these players." I'm against that plan completely, and I'm against BrownBear.
Hopefully the DT's are working their magic from last night and getting in contact with the players they checked. The DT role is pretty black/white and very strong in this game, so we need to keep those guys alive. The DT's should form their own circles and use the players they checked as voice-boxes. The players who have been checked should, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, reveal to any other player who the DT is unless they are verified. The only way the DT circles should combine is if AND ONLY IF by chance a DT checks another DT. Please be smart about this guys.
I'm sticking with the opinion of the previous night to lynch the most useless player:
##Vote: BrownBear
I'll consider changing my vote if some of the more 'influential players' have a better suggestion. This vote is a completely different style, levels out with what he said the day before of not having time, here he obviously did as it’s a moderately informed vote. HOWEVER he later does this Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 01:34 Amber[LighT] wrote:
Unvote BrownBear
##Vote: Subversion
Though I think BrownBear's analysis and plan is crappy, we can get more info is we lynch Subversion. Lynching BB just proves that we, as a town, aren't as organized as we would like to be. The Subversion discussion caught a lot of players, many more than the BB discussion. By determining Subversion's role we can pinpoint other key players who were pushing for and against the Subversion lynch. I'm willing to risk putting my name into the hat to get the town on a better path to victory. Depending on the flip, the DT's should try and look at key players involved in the Subversion dispute. Here shows that rather than being certain of his choices, he going bandwagon to bandwagon. Subversion has had far to many people jump on him for being a bad player when the kid is new. And now another player, who should know better based on experience, is jumping at him. Seriously fishy imo. Very little activity overall and hoping onto bandwagons is all hes really doing. Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 20:25 XeliN wrote:
I'm personally not convinced about Brownbear whatsoever, his suggestions and arguments may be poor but he has not acted in a way I would expect a mafia too, his reaction to peoples accusations is far more fitting with how townies respond (although this is WiFOM, but I'm going to go with the assumption that Brown would not attempt to defend himself in a manner he hoped to portray as a green reaction if he were mafia)
Out of the two candidates my inclination is for either Darth or Chaoser, the arguments against Subversion have seemed quite astute but quite frankly the actions of Darth and Chaoser so far concern me more, Darth from my past experience is extremely logical, helpful and influential. He has been none of these things this game and in the past I have only seen him in a town role. This shift in character//style would be the main reason I suspect Darth.
Chaoser has been exceptionally inconsistent so far, Pandain has outlined most of my reasoning quite well on page 39, but to surmise his arguing against "no-lynching" in order to criticise a player then abstaining, using the argument "these two players are more suspicious//more evidence against them than me". This line of argument is almost laughable and reminds me of the playground type reaction "Hey don't pick on me... look at that kid... he can't even play football and he's ugly as hell".
##Vote DarthThienAn
Out of Chaoser and Darth I would consider the latter more dangerous in a mafia role so I'll place it there. Going into description of who he thinks should be lynched based off two major candiates. Although DTA is a more recent bandwagon (well revival of one) Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 08:20 Jayme wrote:On July 21 2010 06:02 chaoser wrote:
Also, I'm going to put in my vote for Subversion. So far I don't know how I feel about BrownBear. At first I wanted to vote him. He's been playing badly and didn't do anything day one. But then at the same time people jumped all over voting for him in the beginning until just recently when people switched to Subversion, or at least it feels like that.
Subversion's little mafia mistake statement is just weird all in all and was part of that voting block (everyone's already mentioned this) so I'll put my vote on him for now but I'll have to see. Still a full day left.
##vote Subversion I personally understand the brownbear vote because I was thinking about doing the same thing. Subversion's strange comments have been well...strange and I'm really itching to vote for him because his foot in mouth syndrome could get us in trouble later in the game when saying something stupid can have catastrophic consequences. That being said
##Vote:Subversion This vote worries me. He starts by saying “I was going to vote for x” then immediately swaps his opinion to someone who has made a few minor slip ups (possible newb?) but votes out of fear of him saying something he shouldn’t. Odd reason to kill someone now, sounds like a pm land reason, although I have no way to prove that. To my knowledge, Infundi has just voted for double lynch today, and Roffles still hasn’t voted. Now looking at this, I see a few really oddly done votes, and it continues today. Amber seems to vote for whichever wagon at the time is attracting the most people, hopping onto Youngminii near its beginning, then proceeding to jump on BB when it was in its prime, now hes hopped over to subversion. This is insanely odd to me. Next we have jayme, doing very similar things, hopping onto popular wagon without really contributing much to the game other than hopping onto the wagon with a simple reason of why he joined it. His reason day 1 was sound, his reason right now not so much. I would also say as a minor link that potentially means nothing at this point, but both amber and jayme have voted together twice now (provided this vote stays final). NOW, lets talk about the last days playing. WHAT THE HELL GUYS. I am gone for a day, and seriously return to you all attacking well everyone Youngminii vs chaoser pandain vs chaoser Chaoser vs young/pandain everyone and their puppy vs subversion Shit jumping randomly out to attack dta people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity. Lakrismamma attempting to start a fight with roffles based on inactivity (pot calling the kettle black?) The amount of just literally piles of crap to weed through is agonizingly annoying to read. ALL of responsible for this all should take a step bad and really see what you are doing. Because of all this nonsense there is really next to no real candidate for a lynch, instead its a bunch of minor bandwagons people can fan/hide in. If the group of you mainly responsible for this is town, shame on you guys, you should know better. Start reading what people are saying, not just arguing a gut shot. As its too damn late to try and coordinate on who to vote on, I AM choosing amber for having two days worth of sketchy voting habits + bandwagon hopping. ##vote amber[light]
This man raises a good point. I also like this amberlight accusation as it sounds solid and very reasonable, unlike this silly DTA one. However, I'm going to stick to my chaoser vote unless amberlight and DTA are on the same vote count or something, which in that case I'd change my vote to amberlight.
Also, how many hours 'til twilight?
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On July 22 2010 04:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
people still discussing the crap of BB rather than just ignoring him based on stupidity.
Hey, I still think it's a good idea. You don't have to agree with it, but you also don't have to call me stupid because you don't like my idea.
On July 22 2010 04:53 Roffles wrote:
??
I never voted on Day 2. I just think BrownBear played Day 1 like a moron, and that Subversion's tactics are odd/newblike, but not necessarily Mafia like.
Both true.
At this point, I think we should be talking about other things. Namely, who do we want to protect/rolecheck, and more importantly, should we even be talking about things like that publicly? We have to remember there's still a suicide bomber out there.
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EPT
