EPTOn June 29 2010 05:57 Iplaythings wrote:
cmon, seriously, you cant dislike Kang Min, I mean, cmon.
cmon, seriously, you cant dislike Kang Min, I mean, cmon.
Actual players...
No one can hate Reach, Nal_Ra, yellow (even though they are all bought
)Power Rank 05/31/2010 - Page 31
| Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
|
SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
Actual players... No one can hate Reach, Nal_Ra, yellow (even though they are all bought ) | ||
|
Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On June 29 2010 06:03 SuperArc wrote: Actual players... No one can hate Reach, Nal_Ra, yellow (even though they are all bought )Who said I didnt mean Hoejja? (even though he plays terribad atm he is such a likeable person) (; It's not like the others is an active part of KT right now. Even though Reach / Yellow is probally gonna come back to KT afterwards. But ofc you cant hate either one of them... Unless you are Djetterstyle who hates rA with a passion... Anyways he isnt acctive so that doesnt matter :p | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On June 29 2010 01:59 Harem wrote: How are those strong opponents at all? I mean, skyhigh tvp? Hyvaa zvp? Also, Mind's tvp hasn't exactly been relevant in ages. All that's missing is like Casy tvp and modesty zvp and he may very well have the most lol month ever as a Protoss. These are people who probably go 50/50 with the Protoss AI in practice games. (Also Yarnc if he wasn't banned from pro-gaming.) All veteran A-team players. All shown the ability to win games at a high level. All four have appeared on the PR at various times. They deserve the label 'strong'. And so might  Bisu. On June 29 2010 02:10 Plexa wrote: Now compare that to this month; all of Flash's losses coming to people with absurdly good PvT, and not looking bad in any (except the game against really on MP) and he went 1-1 with a number of those players as well. Further, Jaedong went 6-1 this month (I wouldn't count him winning his osl prelims group, there was no one worthy of competition in that group. Indeed, if he hadn't have advanced with a perfect record i would have been surprised). You can bring up Jaedong's 14-0 PL streak but then you should consider that Jaedong got 0-3'd by Flash in the same period of time. Further, Flash's MSL win is still very much relevant, it's been ~30days since that roflstomp, whereas (as mentioned) when Jaedong got dropped his OSL win was around 2 months old by then. Lastly, another question that should be considered when a decision is this fine is who is the more scary opponent for a player at the moment? Think about that for a bit... It shouldn't matter if  Flash is losing his games to Stork or NonY. If you're #1, you need to win to keep that spot. When you're the best, everyone is trying to snipe you, or cheese you, or slip sedatives in your pocari sweat. Tough.What makes runs like Jaedong's last fall and Flash's this winter/spring so impressive is that they beat back all challenges for a really long time. That's what made them #1, and separated them from the second tier; EffOrt, fantasy, Stork. But if you can no longer muster a winning record against the best, you no longer deserve to be called the best of the best. The discussion about Flash being #1 should begin and end with his monthly record: 5-6 with no shady offside calls or disallowed goals. It would be unprecedented for Flash to hang on to #2 with that record, and it's a testament to his domination that we even consider him for that. You ask for the scariest player at the moment if there's a clear answer. There isn't. Jaedong and fantasy are both playing better than Flash right now. On June 29 2010 02:38 Kreedit wrote: The fuck how does he suck if he goes 9-2 against ''quality opposition''??? And wtf is up with ''losing team''??? Khan is actually on a roll atm and its not inconciveable that they grab the 6th spot from CJ with a bit of luck. I do say that he'll be on the PR this month and deservedly so. But I can't stand  great. He plays like Luxury, except without the title or the match-fixing. More like RorO, actually. He goes on tears every other month or so, after which he goes on terrible terrible losing streaks, and couldn't buy a win from a lemonade stand. So yes I'm being unfair, but I dunno, great sucks. | ||
|
De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
The guy who isn't losing half his games rofl. He also doesn't have a death stare  . Maybe Flash needs his fireball hair back to start winning again. | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I'm listing here the raw facts for all players who I believe warrant consideration in the PR. There's no cherry-picking in the stats I chose. No looking for win streaks in one particular league or anything like that, no talk of whether ace games are the same or different. I believe such things do warrant consideration, but only after looking at the bear essentials. Note: records only count standard league games. Past 2 months means all games played on or after May 1, 2010. For those who read my last post, some of this is a bit redundant. Terrans (listed in order of ELO appearance): Flash (5-6 this month, 23-12 past 2 months, OSL #2, MSL #1 seeded) Fantasy (9-2 this month, 13-5 past 2 months, alive in OSL and MSL) Sea (6-3 this month, 7-5 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL, winner of OSL offline prelim direct seed?) Baby (4-3 this month, 10-4 past 2, alive in OSL, fell out of MSL) Leta (8-5 this month, 12-7 past 2, alive in only OSL) ForGG (5-1 this month, 9-3 past 2, alive in OSL(?) and MSL) Midas (2-2 this month, 4-5 past 2, fell from both leagues) Hiya (5-3 this month, 8-10 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) SkyHigh (5-3 this month, 8-5 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Zergs: Jaedong (6-1 this month, 19-5 past 2, alive in OSL, MSL #2 seeded) Effort (5-5 this month, 15-7 past 2, OSL #1 seeded, alive in MSL) Roro (3-2 this month, 9-3 past 2, alive in only MSL) Great (9-2 this month, 12-11 past 2, fell from OSL, alive in MSL, ironically, runner-up in OSL offline prelim direct seed tournament to Sea -- yet lost to Sea in actual OSL Ro36... wtf? Tournament bracket fail) Hyuk (5-4 this month, 10-5 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Shine (1-3 this month, 6-4 past 2, alive in OSL only) s2 (5-2 this month, 9-2 past 2, alive in MSL only) Protoss: Free (6-1 this month, 11-8 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Bisu (7-1 this month, 7-4 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Stats (6-4 this month, 10-5 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Kal (4-5 this month, 11-12 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Shuttle (3-4 this month, 7-6 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) Snow (5-3 this month, 10-4 past 2, alive in OSL and MSL) I included every player on the last PR just for the sake of discussion. I don't think anyone will argue that Flash and Jaedong deserve 1 and 2, though the order seems to be under much dispute. The raw number of games they've been playing is proof of skill. Their records confirm great strength. In my opinion, these players are all PR worthy: Fantasy, Sea, Baby, ForGG, Great, Free, Bisu, Snow. That leaves 1 spot left, and a number of good contenders. At least CBNC worthy: Leta, SkyHigh, Effort, s2, Stats. I can definitely see 1 or 2 players I listed as PR worthy dropping for a player I listed as CBNC worthy. In my opinion, these players should be removed from PR and should not be mentioned in CBNC either: Midas, Shine, Kal, Shuttle. Regarding these players, I'm a little uncertain: -Hiya (record not so great, but pulled some notable wins, 2 month record includes falling to Free and a mini-slump right after. Hiya is a good player, but he always teeters around being barely worth mentioning on PR, never making a case for a high rank, but almost always making a case for CBNC) -Roro (last month I argued why I liked the choice of Shine over Roro. But Shine isn't delivering. Roro didn't have a great month either, but I'd not be adverse to a CBNC mention. He's developing a good reputation as a potential ace match player, rounding out the Terran-driven line-up WeMade has) -Hyuk (possibly worth mentioning, last month noted on CBNC for lifting the SKT-1 Zerg line-up. This month he looks short of s2) Thoughts on the whole: -Great month for Terran. Bad month for Zerg. Question mark for Protoss (no stable S-class Protoss, but several rising up and comers). Is this a sign that Flash is finally being successful at rallying Terran back to the throne? -PL R5 results have been somewhat unusual this month and should probably influence ranking even though I haven't really taken them into account. I did take into account the strength of the opponents in deciding whether a player was PR worthy, CBNC worthy, or so on. -Hard to make good decisions with OSL and MSL both still in such early stages. Most top players are alive in both leagues. -Some big names I skipped over for the obvious: because I don't feel they are worth mentioning given recent results. I think I listed everybody that anyone is serious about considering for PR. | ||
|
Severedevil
United States4822 Posts
On June 29 2010 06:47 tree.hugger wrote: I do say that he'll be on the PR this month and deservedly so. But I can't stand great. He plays like Luxury, except without the title or the match-fixing. More like RorO, actually. He goes on tears every other month or so, after which he goes on terrible terrible losing streaks, and couldn't buy a win from a lemonade stand. So yes I'm being unfair, but I dunno, great sucks. Sounds like pretty much all of Khan. | ||
|
setzer
United States3284 Posts
| ||
|
jalstar
United States8198 Posts
Stork. (5-2 this month, 7-6 last 2 months, alive in OSL only) | ||
|
blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
| ||
|
Tempest[OEC]
United States417 Posts
On June 29 2010 10:59 blahman3344 wrote: erm, pardon my ignorance, but what does CBNC mean? Close but no cigar. | ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 29 2010 10:54 jalstar wrote: Mortality, you forgot to mention Stork. (5-2 this month, 7-6 last 2 months, alive in OSL only)To be honest, I didn't forget him. I didn't think Stork had a PR worthy month -- I can name maybe 15 players or so who I feel with confidence performed better. 5-2, as you say, was his record this month, but what of it? His two losses were in his two most important games (MST), and his wins were over players who are "meh" at best right now. Can you honestly say that Stork deserves a PR spot over the other gamers I mentioned? | ||
|
Eiserne
United States340 Posts
| ||
|
Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On June 29 2010 15:14 Eiserne wrote: I don't see why Flash would be in the top 5 of the PR with a 5-6 record, disappointing in every single ACE match. Because he's really fucking good? Because PR is about who's the best, not "who won the most games this month"? | ||
|
insanet
Peru439 Posts
| ||
|
Eiserne
United States340 Posts
On June 29 2010 15:37 Mortality wrote: Because he's really fucking good? Because PR is about who's the best, not "who won the most games this month"? Maybe, if you don't have a 50% win rate you don't deserve number one on the PR, that's for damn sure. | ||
|
QibingZero
2611 Posts
Jaedong, while not having won a starleague this season, is still playing like he should have and probably deserves #1. I wouldn't be surprised if Plexa tries to make a statement toward the Flash anti-fans and makes Flash #1 though. The standards we hold progamers to are ridiculous sometimes, and people need to really calm down with this 'slump' talk. Fantasy should move up a couple slots to 4 or 5, and I'm guessing he'll move up again next month before his usual crash and burn. There's no excuse not to have free in there somewhere. Just because Woongjin sometimes forgets they have such a great player, it doesn't mean we should. =P Kal should definitely drop due to results, though his overall play is still good enough for the top 10. Sea should definitely be top 10, as he's looked really good and we can't just assume he's going to drop out of both leagues this next month, can we? Okay maybe, but he's still looking good.  Snow should probably stay (albeit below free), as he hasn't faded much as of right now. Bisu's a touchy subject. Personally I'd give him CBNC right now, but I know all the Bisu fans are going to argue since he actually remembered how to play again the last few weeks. | ||
|
jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On June 29 2010 14:47 Mortality wrote: To be honest, I didn't forget him. I didn't think Stork had a PR worthy month -- I can name maybe 15 players or so who I feel with confidence performed better. 5-2, as you say, was his record this month, but what of it? His two losses were in his two most important games (MST), and his wins were over players who are "meh" at best right now. Can you honestly say that Stork deserves a PR spot over the other gamers I mentioned? Absolutely. If you watch his games he's been playing fucking beastly. | ||
|
WWJDD
India342 Posts
| ||
|
J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On June 30 2010 01:01 WWJDD wrote: Bisu over Flash this month. 50% not good enough for even #3 on the PR. Flash is still the BoX favourite over every progamer, especially Jaedong. #1 or #2 are the only options for him. I should also remind you that the Power Rank isn't determined by win rate. Perhaps you should write this down so you don't forget it! | ||
|
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I would give Bisu a high rank in this PR, too. His performance in all games was great. But putting Bisu out of nowhere over Flash would be over the edge. | ||
| ||
