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On June 26 2010 09:18 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2010 08:43 setzer wrote:On June 26 2010 06:46 SimonB wrote:On June 26 2010 06:43 SuperArc wrote:
Last two months:
Flash: 23-11
JD: 24-5
Flash already had his benefit of doubt. JD has been playing monstrous lately. Where has he had the benefit of the doubt. Just last month, he was considered the undisputed, unequaled greatest player on earth without even a close rival. This month, he goes on a minor bad streak in meaningless games (Oh NO! .500 winning percentage), and you want to kick him off. Flash was not even considered the favorite to win the MSL; Jaedong was. Really? Because I could have sworn there was a lot of talk from the Korean community that for the first time Flash was entering a bo5 against Jaedong not as the underdog.
for the first time? The MSL finals before everyone was saying Flash was going to beat Jaedong. But Jaedong won (not going into anything about the power outage so please dont' say it, Jaedong won its over).
I also think it was pretty even in terms of who people thought would win it seemed about 50/50 for flash or jaedong on the previous finals.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Plexa's still putting Flash at 1 ;_;
Also Jaedong 2 for sure.
Umm, in no special order:
Bisu, Snow, great, EffOrt (maybe?), Leta (maybe?), s2 (doing well), Hyuk (hyuk hyuk? ...Hyuk hyuk hyuk! Hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk...), BeSt (maybe), fantasy (maybe).
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On June 28 2010 14:33 flamewheel wrote:
Plexa's still putting Flash at 1 ;_;
Also Jaedong 2 for sure.
Umm, in no special order:
Bisu, Snow, great, EffOrt (maybe?), Leta (maybe?), s2 (doing well), Hyuk (hyuk hyuk? ...Hyuk hyuk hyuk! Hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk...), BeSt (maybe), fantasy (maybe).
Poor Plexa, he's going to get fanboy disagreement (possibly hate?) either way he chooses. 
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Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Flash loses to free O.O
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2010 18:51 SuperArc wrote:
Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Flash loses to free O.O that game could never lose anybody #1. even from live report i can tell it's probably a top 3 ZvZ of all time
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On June 28 2010 18:51 SuperArc wrote:
Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Dude, losing to Yellow doesn't count. Force majeure.
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On June 28 2010 19:28 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 18:51 SuperArc wrote:
Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Dude, losing to Yellow doesn't count. Force majeure.
lol awesome contract law reference
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So Flash went 5-6 this month (45% win rate).
That's a negative win rate and I dont think no one in the history of the PR got #1 with a negative record...
Now we will see how much Plexa doesn't like Jaedong...
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Nobody in the history of PR got double finals two seasons in a row, while simultaneously carrying his team to the #1 seed in proleague.
Blah blah blah, that's the past. It's what happens now that matters.
Except none of the games this month were consequential in anything. Flash taking it easy before his OSL/MSL matches. Jaedong's difference in wins this month is made from preseason wins over the vaunted players  Rush,  Juni,  Reach (no offense, my friend), and fOru, less than one month after a certain MSL finals.
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On June 28 2010 20:39 SimonB wrote:Nobody in the history of PR got double finals two seasons in a row, while simultaneously carrying his team to the #1 seed in proleague. Blah blah blah, that's the past. It's what happens now that matters. Except none of the games this month were consequential in anything. Flash taking it easy before his OSL/MSL matches. Jaedong's difference in wins this month is made from preseason wins over the vaunted players Rush, Juni, Reach (no offense, my friend), and fOru, less than one month after a certain MSL finals.
..... at least he isn't losing half his games -_-
Really, this is EXACTLY how Jaedong lost his #1 right after getting the golden mouse.
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On June 28 2010 20:39 SimonB wrote:Nobody in the history of PR got double finals two seasons in a row, while simultaneously carrying his team to the #1 seed in proleague. Blah blah blah, that's the past. It's what happens now that matters. Except none of the games this month were consequential in anything. Flash taking it easy before his OSL/MSL matches. Jaedong's difference in wins this month is made from preseason wins over the vaunted players Rush, Juni, Reach (no offense, my friend), and fOru, less than one month after a certain MSL finals.
I dont think players should be allowed to retain their #1 PR spot on the basis that they have been "taking it easy so it doesnt count".
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On June 28 2010 20:02 SuperArc wrote:
So Flash went 5-6 this month (45% win rate).
That's a negative win rate and I dont think no one in the history of the PR got #1 with a negative record...
Now we will see how much Plexa doesn't like Jaedong...
Flash is holding his #1 spot in PR for a half a year now. Just in last month the guy set a new record by getting gold+silver two seasons sequentially (meanwhile beating the closest contender for the best player in an utterly one sided fashion, leaving him without a gold whatsoever). He also broke 4000 points mark of Kespa rankings, which is absolutely ridiculous. And this month, despite having negative win rate, he set new record of number of wins in one proleague season (though he wasn't able to reach his own goal of 60 wins, but that's a different story).
He deserves benefit of the doubt, no?
On June 28 2010 18:54 o[twist] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2010 18:51 SuperArc wrote:
Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Flash loses to free O.O that game could never lose anybody #1. even from live report i can tell it's probably a top 3 ZvZ of all time
+ Show Spoiler +Hwaseung OZ hopes for a playoff went down the drain. This is what people should consider when they talk about most important games, not some random ace TvT loses.
You see, that's the crucial difference between Flash's and JD's situation. Flash worked so hard before that his loses now are only a personal matter. Now this month JD had to show same exceptional performance as Flash showed before for his team to have any hopes for a playoff spot and in the end he failed. That's the difference between best and second best player.
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On June 28 2010 21:28 InRaged wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hwaseung OZ hopes for a playoff went down the drain. This is what people should consider when they talk about most important games, not some random ace TvT loses.
You see, that's the crucial difference between Flash's and JD's situation. Flash worked so hard before that his loses now are only a personal matter. Now this month JD had to show same exceptional performance as Flash showed before for his team to have any hopes for a playoff spot and in the end he failed. That's the difference between best and second best player.
You are a bit ill informed when you attribute OZ not making the playoffs to Jaedongs failure. If you exlucde winners league, JDs and Flashs performances throughout the season is nearly exactly the same. KT is simply the so much better team. Of course Flashs season has been better because of Winnersleague, but that is not the difference between #1 and #8. If JD had actually played some ace matches in R1 instead of Killer, things would look different now. Jaedong is basically in a position where he has to win the last 20 games of the season for his team to have a shot at the playoffs, and today he failed after 14 wins.
I believe both Flash and Jaedong could be first this month, it's a matter of opinion right now. I personally feel that someone with a negative record during the last month should not be #1 at a ranking which reflects power in the first place, no matter how dominant he has been before. On the other hand, Jadeong could have made a strong case for himself if he had gone 2-0 against ACE today, but he couldn't connect.
So sadly I won't be able to hate on Plexa next month, both choices would be justified.
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On June 28 2010 21:28 InRaged wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 20:02 SuperArc wrote:
So Flash went 5-6 this month (45% win rate).
That's a negative win rate and I dont think no one in the history of the PR got #1 with a negative record...
Now we will see how much Plexa doesn't like Jaedong... Flash is holding his #1 spot in PR for a half a year now. Just in last month the guy set a new record by getting gold+silver two seasons sequentially (meanwhile beating the closest contender for the best player in an utterly one sided fashion, leaving him without a gold whatsoever). He also broke 4000 points mark of Kespa rankings, which is absolutely ridiculous. And this month, despite having negative win rate, he set new record of number of wins in one proleague season (though he wasn't able to reach his own goal of 60 wins, but that's a different story). He deserves benefit of the doubt, no? Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 18:54 o[twist] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2010 18:51 SuperArc wrote:
Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Flash loses to free O.O that game could never lose anybody #1. even from live report i can tell it's probably a top 3 ZvZ of all time + Show Spoiler +Hwaseung OZ hopes for a playoff went down the drain. This is what people should consider when they talk about most important games, not some random ace TvT loses.
You see, that's the crucial difference between Flash's and JD's situation. Flash worked so hard before that his loses now are only a personal matter. Now this month JD had to show same exceptional performance as Flash showed before for his team to have any hopes for a playoff spot and in the end he failed. That's the difference between best and second best player.
A 45% winrate for the month is sooooooooooooooo deserving of the #1 spot. These are the new rules people.
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On June 28 2010 20:39 SimonB wrote:Nobody in the history of PR got double finals two seasons in a row, while simultaneously carrying his team to the #1 seed in proleague. Blah blah blah, that's the past. It's what happens now that matters. Except none of the games this month were consequential in anything. Flash taking it easy before his OSL/MSL matches. Jaedong's difference in wins this month is made from preseason wins over the vaunted players Rush, Juni, Reach (no offense, my friend), and fOru, less than one month after a certain MSL finals.
Since when was the importance of the proleague games taken into account for the power rank? Flash is clearly not holding back for the games so its irrelevant. He's playing to the best of his ability and he's losing.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On June 28 2010 15:23 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 14:33 flamewheel wrote:
Plexa's still putting Flash at 1 ;_;
Also Jaedong 2 for sure.
Umm, in no special order:
Bisu, Snow, great, EffOrt (maybe?), Leta (maybe?), s2 (doing well), Hyuk (hyuk hyuk? ...Hyuk hyuk hyuk! Hyuk hyuk hyuk hyuk...), BeSt (maybe), fantasy (maybe). Poor Plexa, he's going to get fanboy disagreement (possibly hate?) either way he chooses.
JD and Flash, both are fine at #1, so he cant do anything wrong. Fanboys will always flame.
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On June 28 2010 21:07 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 20:39 SimonB wrote:Nobody in the history of PR got double finals two seasons in a row, while simultaneously carrying his team to the #1 seed in proleague. Blah blah blah, that's the past. It's what happens now that matters. Except none of the games this month were consequential in anything. Flash taking it easy before his OSL/MSL matches. Jaedong's difference in wins this month is made from preseason wins over the vaunted players Rush, Juni, Reach (no offense, my friend), and fOru, less than one month after a certain MSL finals. ..... at least he isn't losing half his games -_- Really, this is EXACTLY how Jaedong lost his #1 right after getting the golden mouse.
Well, the circumstances are similar, but not exactly the same. Flash back then had perfect record, JD now hasn't. It seems pretty unfair to say that, but today lost to Yellow was more damaging than all Flash's losses this month...
And more importantly, JD didn't rape Flash just thirty days ago when he lost his spot. Really, if JD insted of Effort won the OSL against Flash, I would have nothing against him being #1. Or if he at least kept some dignity in the MSL games. Or if Effort has this month Jaedong's results, again, clear #1.
It's hard. I hoped Flash would've stepped his game and leave no doubts, but he hasn't. I can see both of them at first place pretty easily. But the fanboy inside me want Flash, because he would set new record for consecutive #1 PR appearance, lol (currently Flash and Bisu both has 8 month streak).
+ Show Spoiler [fanboy can dream] +Hey but you know what? Flash losses this month were purely on purpose! KT is bound to be #1 in PL, but that itself isn't enough to actually win the grand finals. And current KT "strategy" was Flash win one game, somebody else the second, then Flash deliver in ace. It obviously won't work in finals, which are BO7. So Flash started to losing in ace matches, so his teammates have to step up. And see, it's working! Today is the first time in ages KT won without Flash.
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On June 28 2010 23:00 WWJDD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 21:28 InRaged wrote:On June 28 2010 20:02 SuperArc wrote:
So Flash went 5-6 this month (45% win rate).
That's a negative win rate and I dont think no one in the history of the PR got #1 with a negative record...
Now we will see how much Plexa doesn't like Jaedong... Flash is holding his #1 spot in PR for a half a year now. Just in last month the guy set a new record by getting gold+silver two seasons sequentially (meanwhile beating the closest contender for the best player in an utterly one sided fashion, leaving him without a gold whatsoever). He also broke 4000 points mark of Kespa rankings, which is absolutely ridiculous. And this month, despite having negative win rate, he set new record of number of wins in one proleague season (though he wasn't able to reach his own goal of 60 wins, but that's a different story). He deserves benefit of the doubt, no? On June 28 2010 18:54 o[twist] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 28 2010 18:51 SuperArc wrote:
Just when I thought JD lost his #1 by losing to yellow.
Flash loses to free O.O that game could never lose anybody #1. even from live report i can tell it's probably a top 3 ZvZ of all time + Show Spoiler +Hwaseung OZ hopes for a playoff went down the drain. This is what people should consider when they talk about most important games, not some random ace TvT loses.
You see, that's the crucial difference between Flash's and JD's situation. Flash worked so hard before that his loses now are only a personal matter. Now this month JD had to show same exceptional performance as Flash showed before for his team to have any hopes for a playoff spot and in the end he failed. That's the difference between best and second best player. A 45% winrate for the month is sooooooooooooooo deserving of the #1 spot. These are the new rules people.
You wanna winrates? ;P
Out of 9 players JD had won over this month only 3 (stats, BaBy, Modesty) have 50%+ winrate vs Zerg.
All Flash opponents except Ruby were Terran snipers
If JD went 45% against his opponents he wouldn't deserve to be at PR at all, that's how bad they were. And you're telling that wins over them gonna overshadow his utter defeat in the most recent finals?
On June 29 2010 00:07 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2010 21:07 De4ngus wrote:On June 28 2010 20:39 SimonB wrote:Nobody in the history of PR got double finals two seasons in a row, while simultaneously carrying his team to the #1 seed in proleague. Blah blah blah, that's the past. It's what happens now that matters. Except none of the games this month were consequential in anything. Flash taking it easy before his OSL/MSL matches. Jaedong's difference in wins this month is made from preseason wins over the vaunted players Rush, Juni, Reach (no offense, my friend), and fOru, less than one month after a certain MSL finals. ..... at least he isn't losing half his games -_- Really, this is EXACTLY how Jaedong lost his #1 right after getting the golden mouse. Well, the circumstances are similar, but not exactly the same. Flash back then had perfect record, JD now hasn't. It seems pretty unfair to say that, but today lost to Yellow was more damaging than all Flash's losses this month... And more importantly, JD didn't rape Flash just thirty days ago when he lost his spot. Really, if JD insted of Effort won the OSL against Flash, I would have nothing against him being #1. Or if he at least kept some dignity in the MSL games. Or if Effort has this month Jaedong's results, again, clear #1.
Absolutely agree with both paragraphs =)
Besides, back then Flash weren't titleless like JD now. He won GOM S3 in the same week as JD got his golden mouse and he had went to the finals without dropping a single game
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I wouldn't mind Jaedong being #1 if not for a certain roflstomp that occured 30 days ago
sure, Jaedong is winning more games this month, but he didn't really accomplish anything spectacular enough to overthrow Flash from his throne. To be honest he didn't really have an opportunity to do so, but that's how it is when you're being compared to back to back dual finalist with fresh gold under his belt
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EPT
