Thanks guys for all the responses. I guess I'll just keep to my standard builds and scout a little earlier for cheeses.

And these are most definitely not just "weaknesses of my build" when every TvT i get bbsed and proxy gated by every protoss. I played a Zerg three times who went 1 hatch muta twice (easy wins) and 4 pool once (should have been easy win but my marine died cause a scv decided to block him at the last possible second from entering the bunker-due to me being terrible

)

numLoCK

Canada1416 Posts

February 24 2010 23:14 GMT

#22

Ya, the iccup points system makes it much more preferable to play a whole bunch of really quick games to get points than to try to play standard and end up with 15-25 minute games. So people will either cheese, allin, or use a really aggressive build in hope that they can pull off a quick win. Things like 2 fact, BBS, 2 or 3 hatch hydra, 9 pool speed, proxy gates, dt rushes, etc. Not always cheese, but rarely the super standard macro builds.
Its the reason I don't ladder much, cause I don't really play to get better as much as I play because its fun, and I get much more satisfaction winning a 20 minute management game than stopping some kids cheese.

niteReloaded

Croatia5281 Posts

February 24 2010 23:18 GMT

#23

On February 25 2010 07:56 dekuschrub wrote:
C- cheeses like a mother fucker

you get all these protoss that are terrible and only know how to cheese its quite amusing

but then i lose to it anyway cuz im bad

lol +1

leejas

United States440 Posts

February 24 2010 23:35 GMT

#24

1) Iccup awards mass games more so than actual skill in a way. A four-minute game won is as much as a one hour game, while if I play on a MotW, win once out of three times against people better than or equal to my rank, I still come out with a point gain.

2) It isn't a bad idea to play out these builds! I myself had trouble against Terran BBS, so for a few games I tried it and understood some key steps to block it. (if you think about it, practicing "cheese" in 6minute games means about 4-6 games an hour, versus time consuming standard games where it'll be 2-4 and far more taxing on your endurance.

ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

February 24 2010 23:35 GMT

#25

Counter the cheese with whine.

GreEny K

Germany7312 Posts

February 24 2010 23:54 GMT

#26

On February 25 2010 07:26 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
D+ ICCUP Scenarios

A. 300 APM Korean who will rape you in a standard game
B. People who WILL cheese you

In all honesty though as much as it sucks you just have to learn how to deal with it... consider that at D+ people will have somewhat decent micro... and shitty macro so they'll try to win in 7 min. or less... It's just a phase of the game you'll learn and when you are able to defend that you move to C- and proceed to keep getting raped by standard play because your macro sucks

Lol, coming from someone who is peruvian I'm assuming you fall into the B range?

Op, depending on how all in his cheese is either continue to play standard and outplay him or counter with cheese play yourself. If he does 2 gate proxy either get 1 gate goon with 2 lots and a battery or counter with your own 2 gates.

BrodiaQ

United States892 Posts

February 24 2010 23:56 GMT

#27

I'm terran, so no shield batteries or goons for me

GreEny K

Germany7312 Posts

February 24 2010 23:57 GMT

#28

On February 25 2010 08:14 numLoCK wrote:
Ya, the iccup points system makes it much more preferable to play a whole bunch of really quick games to get points than to try to play standard and end up with 15-25 minute games. So people will either cheese, allin, or use a really aggressive build in hope that they can pull off a quick win. Things like 2 fact, BBS, 2 or 3 hatch hydra, 9 pool speed, proxy gates, dt rushes, etc. Not always cheese, but rarely the super standard macro builds.
Its the reason I don't ladder much, cause I don't really play to get better as much as I play because its fun, and I get much more satisfaction winning a 20 minute management game than stopping some kids cheese.

But cheese wont help you get better and any rank you achieve with it is kind of a fake rank. Playing standard will make you a better player mehanically. Also the longer your games are the more experience you will have in certain situations.

GreEny K

Germany7312 Posts

February 24 2010 23:58 GMT

#29

On February 25 2010 08:56 michael. wrote:
I'm terran, so no shield batteries or goons for me

bunker with 4 scvs repairing will stop anything

huameng

United States1133 Posts

February 25 2010 00:10 GMT

#30

On February 25 2010 08:58 GreEny K wrote:

Show nested quote +

bunker with 4 scvs repairing will stop anything

except nony.

Anyway, you will be able to defend lots of cheeses if you are good with your SCVs. If you're having problems with ling allins tvz or 4gate allins tvp, just hotkey your natural SCVs and put them in front of your rines/tanks as soon as you see shit start to move toward you. If the cheese comes earlier than that, make sure your building placement gives your first rine a nice spot to hide vs zeals or a nice path to the minline/bunker vs lings

Also use your supply depots well, at worst they are an annoyance to micro around for your opponent and at best it'll totally ruin their day.

But most importantly, your opening should be nearly perfect. Much easier to cheese a terran who has 2 tanks when he should have 3 or 6 rines when he should have 10. Even Flash loses to BBS tvt so don't worry about that so much >_>

ghostWriter

United States3302 Posts

February 25 2010 00:40 GMT

#31

On February 25 2010 07:50 kaisr wrote:

Show nested quote +

this is funny considering ur from peru

if only he talked about lag too haha

duckett

United States589 Posts

February 25 2010 00:56 GMT

#32

smurf more to get your game in line

and btw, all the practice should get you really good at dealing with proxy gates, bbs, 4pool etc. a lot of it is just micro and scouting the right places at the right times for instance, you need to scout your main at 10 or so tvp on desti or hbr. then you get a bit better and realize you suck =( at dealing with players who arent terrible cheesers. practicepracticepractice

Sadistx

Zimbabwe5568 Posts

February 25 2010 01:03 GMT

#33

Anecdotal evidence blog is anecdotal.

faction123

Australia949 Posts

February 25 2010 01:20 GMT

#34

I'm d+ and I cheese 9/10 games, while being cheesed myself in at least half of them (luckily hiding pylons wins me most of those games) When every 2nd PvP you play you meet another players probe in the middle of the map 30 seconds into the game, things are pretty interesting.

It's fun man, try it yourself.

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

February 25 2010 03:44 GMT

#35

I have two thoughts.

1. There could be a bad luck factor. Let's say 10% of all ICCup games are cheese. That doesn't mean "if I play 10 games I will get cheesed once," it means on average you will only be cheesed once. But with a large enough sample size, the probability of a "cheese streak" occuring is actually very high.

2. A lot of inexperienced players tend to think there are things that are cheese that are not cheese. There's a difference between gimmicky play and cheesey play.