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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
2. Deny scout with lings 3. Hatch at nat 4. Scout FE -> play normally if none 5. Make hydras, upgrade speed first 7. Attack back of Nexus with 5-7 Hydras, will be one cannon/2 zeals max. 8. Win This is not a serious guide. (Why it's in blogs...) Seriously though the timing is so imba. Comes before sair scout, and everyone puts cannons by the wall or too far over, to prevent ling run-through. :S I'm 8-0 vs FE on desti though.. :S   | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3317 Posts
7. Attack back of Nexus with 5-7 Hydras, will be one cannon/2 zeals max. Do you mean like moving your hydras through their choke/bridges and moving them behind their natural nexus or attacking their probes behind the wall that is behind their nexus with hydra + overlord for sight? | ||
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WindCalibur
Canada938 Posts
On top, the right bridge allows hydras to go behind the minerals directly. Most protoss make their cannons too far to the left. On bottom, the left bridge allows hydras to behind the minerals directly. Most protoss make their cannons too far to the right. This actually works quite well  EDIT: got directions wrong | ||
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Shivaz
Canada1783 Posts
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Yaqoob
Canada3317 Posts
If I'm at the bottom then I place it slightly above the left corner of my natural nexus and on top position I place it below the bottom right corner of my natural nexus to be safe from hydra. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
the other two cannons are out of place, so you get fucked. Windcalibur was right about what I meant | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On April 22 2009 14:30 Shivaz wrote: Basiclly he is sugguesting 2 Hatch hydras lol? yes. XD | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3317 Posts
On April 22 2009 15:01 Butigroove wrote: one cannon dies to 7 hydra... the other two cannons are out of place, so you get fucked. Windcalibur was right about what I meant If they scout it coming then they defend with probes and pump 1 dt and you lose the game and even if you get behind their minerals because you did 2 hatch hydra you should have like 10-12 drones max and they will have more probes then that in their main and they just have to defend or get a dt out and they still win even if you stop mining behind the nexus. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
I've never been able to do the same with hydras though, as I seriously do not want to go hydra all-in. | ||
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WindCalibur
Canada938 Posts
On April 22 2009 15:06 Yaqoob wrote: If they scout it coming then they defend with probes and pump 1 dt and you lose the game and even if you get behind their minerals because you did 2 hatch hydra you should have like 10-12 drones max and they will have more probes then that in their main and they just have to defend or get a dt out and they still win even if you stop mining behind the nexus. DT won't be effective unless the protoss actually sniped the overlord at the nat somehow. Most zergs send their first overlord to the NAT first then to the main while sending the 2nd overlord to the nat to replace the first one. This way the zerg can see the forge, gateway, zealot amount, and tech at the same time. However, sometimes the overlord can be sniped by the initial goon which is made for the purpose of killing the scouting ovies. If you have some lings and hydras, you can save the overlord quite easily but then you are revealing to the opponent that you are doing a very fast hydra build. From my games, I usually have atleast 5 hydras rallying with more before his first goon is out. | ||
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Marine50
Australia1764 Posts
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Yaqoob
Canada3317 Posts
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=11169 JF vs Soda - Game 2 on Destination. | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
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sprawlers
Norway439 Posts
rep EDIT: Watched the JF game, and its kind of a bad example as the zerg really screwed that up. he forgot his rallypoint and had 3 drones sitting afk for 30ish seconds in the early game, thus his first hydra upgrade was slowed down. Then later he was slow on starting the second one as well, starting it at around 6 minutes, the same time as jaedongs second upgrade is finnished. If properly done you should have both upgrades done while you have 3x/34 supply. don't make overlords past that and attack while reinforcing as you lose hydras. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Game Above] + JF Losing to 2 hatch hydra in SC2GG Star League, and on a map that has a smaller choke? Later than the rush I suggested, because of map, but same idea. (Awesome play Oystein) How are they supposed to scout your hydras before they show up with 6 zerglings at choke? They only have 1 or 2 zeals, which they can't scout with because of lings, after that hydras will be there anyway. The whole idea behind this is that the protoss is playing blind. The only time a scout will even matter is if they catch your den morphing, or your hydras just hatching. You would have to mess up for them to scout it, or they would have to do something stupid like hide an extra probe before your overpool can stop the scouting. Twice I've had this build scouted even (stupid mistakes on my part), and they couldn't stop it because it was already too late. Sairs arent a threat at all, you will have hydras rallied with overlords (2 of them atleast) at the choke. DT's won't get out until after you've killed nexus... and aren't even a threat at all because they can;t get out of base unless they went DT drop..? In which case they lose already because of so much spent on tech, and you will have already killed their expansion and be in fine shape to defend against DT's anyway. I think people confuse this with a 3hatch hydra, which comes MUCH later, and is more of a cannon break than a rush. | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
That was such an easy win. Build order counter isn't exactly the most impressive way to win But oh well. Feels good to take a ZvP for once | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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sprawlers
Norway439 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + this is assuming the protoss is decent, if not it's possible to win against these too how to scout it has already been discussed in this thread. | ||
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Gnojfatelob
Belgium216 Posts
On April 22 2009 14:03 Butigroove wrote: 1. Overpool 2. Deny scout with lings 3. Hatch at nat 4. Scout FE -> play normally if none 5. Make hydras, upgrade speed first 7. Attack back of Nexus with 5-7 Hydras, will be one cannon/2 zeals max. 8. Win This is not a serious guide. (Why it's in blogs...) Seriously though the timing is so imba. Comes before sair scout, and everyone puts cannons by the wall or too far over, to prevent ling run-through. :S I'm 8-0 vs FE on desti though.. :S I HATE YOU !!! This happens too much already, dont encourage them damnit. | ||
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Shivaz
Canada1783 Posts
On April 22 2009 21:47 Ronald_McD wrote: Hahaha I just gave this a try. That was such an easy win. Build order counter isn't exactly the most impressive way to win But oh well. Feels good to take a ZvP for once Of course it works well and easy win, its an all in build... (Assuming you deny scouting of course) | ||
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