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On August 19 2024 02:53 Charoisaur wrote:Nah this really has no effect on the Goat debate. Saying he can't be Goat because he got 5-0ed here is just as dumb as saying Maru can't be Goat because he got 4-0ed by Serral. At least Serral fans can't use this argument anymore, that's the good thing
Time changes and those underdogs will do better as time passes.
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On August 19 2024 02:52 Avicularia wrote:
GJ Clem, amazing play.
But Ghosts are problematic to balance. They are bad for almost all terrans in the world, but for those few who have AI like control - they is no counter.
I think the best idea would be to put hard limit of how many ghosts can be made at once, say 10 most. Another idea would be to lower their base attack, but buff survivability vs banes. It would help regular players, but then some units would start to counter them more (e.g. lings).
If you want to take the power from the Ghost away, then give that to something else. Tanks and Libs are strong defensively, but sucks to use against Spellcaster because of their immobility. Bio will be all-killed with a damn Fungal shot, Mech/Sky Mech are completely useless as well.
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On August 19 2024 02:53 SamirDuran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2024 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 19 2024 02:48 HeroSandro wrote:On August 19 2024 02:47 tigera6 wrote:On August 19 2024 02:45 Hider wrote:
This almost makes me want to rewatch the Reynor series. I felt like Reynor had a much easier time matching up against Clem's multitasking. Surprised how much weaker Serral appeared. Never felt like he had a chance in any of the 8 games. Reynor can match Clem speed on both ends, and his split against Clem mines is better in general. Also Solar would have given Clem more difficulty than Serral with his defensive style. Peak Serral has beaten Clem several times. I son’t think Serral was at his best, but still Clem would have propably been too good. Clem has been the perfect weapon against Serral/Reynor for years. Everytime he loses "he wasn't at his peak" LOL I'm tired of these guys who says <insert player here> wasn't at his peak when he just literally made it into the Finals lol
HerO played better yesterday than today I believe (can't confirm, I didn't watch). It's not contradictory for someone to play very well up to a point and then not play well at that point.
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On August 19 2024 02:52 tigera6 wrote:Well, Terran won the last 2 World Championship, but neither of them is Maru. Now that GOAT Terran discussion will have to be ....re-opened?
Nah it's still INnoVation
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massive congratz to Clem, Victor and the whole Liquid family! Incredible achievement!
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On August 19 2024 02:47 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2024 02:45 Hider wrote:
This almost makes me want to rewatch the Reynor series. I felt like Reynor had a much easier time matching up against Clem's multitasking. Surprised how much weaker Serral appeared. Never felt like he had a chance in any of the 8 games. Reynor can match Clem speed on both ends, and his split against Clem mines is better in general. Also Solar would have given Clem more difficulty than Serral with his defensive style.
Reynor has more speed and unpredictability than Serral, but I do not think it would have mattered much today. In addition he hasnt been the same after winning his championship. Something is not clicking in his game atm and he would have lost even more badly today. Clem seems to finally mastered his defense too, which now prevents the zergs counters to hit mineral lines and get ahead in the game.
Solar ?? That must be a joke. Serral is like miles ahead of Solar, even when playing not his best. Dark would have prolly been the best answer to Clem today, but I would say that even him it would have been max 5-1 result. Clem was just too perfect today.
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On August 19 2024 02:53 Charoisaur wrote:Nah this really has no effect on the Goat debate. Saying he can't be Goat because he got 5-0ed here is just as dumb as saying Maru can't be Goat because he got 4-0ed by Serral. At least Serral fans can't use this argument anymore, that's the good thing
Don't take it too seriously; I think the goat discussion is rather silly as it is, whoever people are proposing.
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On August 19 2024 02:55 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2024 02:53 SamirDuran wrote:On August 19 2024 02:51 Charoisaur wrote:On August 19 2024 02:48 HeroSandro wrote:On August 19 2024 02:47 tigera6 wrote:On August 19 2024 02:45 Hider wrote:
This almost makes me want to rewatch the Reynor series. I felt like Reynor had a much easier time matching up against Clem's multitasking. Surprised how much weaker Serral appeared. Never felt like he had a chance in any of the 8 games. Reynor can match Clem speed on both ends, and his split against Clem mines is better in general. Also Solar would have given Clem more difficulty than Serral with his defensive style. Peak Serral has beaten Clem several times. I son’t think Serral was at his best, but still Clem would have propably been too good. Clem has been the perfect weapon against Serral/Reynor for years. Everytime he loses "he wasn't at his peak" LOL I'm tired of these guys who says <insert player here> wasn't at his peak when he just literally made it into the Finals lol HerO played better yesterday than today I believe (can't confirm, I didn't watch). It's not contradictory for someone to play very well up to a point and then not play well at that point.
I saw the glimpse of Trap when herO lost to Serral at the Game 5. I said to myself, "It won't happen this time.".
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Can someone clip French stream reaction? Imagine it’s wild
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Can we now say, that Europe>Korea? I say yes.
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Damn.. That was a rough last day..
GGs 
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MarineLord in shambles! xD
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Disappointing that every match was a bop, but Clem played amazing and well deserved.
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France12738 Posts
On August 19 2024 02:52 Avicularia wrote:
GJ Clem, amazing play.
But Ghosts are problematic to balance. They are bad for almost all terrans in the world, but for those few who have AI like control - they is no counter.
I think the best idea would be to put hard limit of how many ghosts can be made at once, say 10 most. Another idea would be to lower their base attack, but buff survivability vs banes. It would help regular players, but then some units would start to counter them more (e.g. lings).
I don’t think balance played a part there (mayybe maps). Serral was just too slow for Clem. Reynor put up a better fight.
Clem practiced in Korea so he had access to even better players than in Europe, that trip sure helped
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On August 19 2024 02:57 Starcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2024 02:47 tigera6 wrote:On August 19 2024 02:45 Hider wrote:
This almost makes me want to rewatch the Reynor series. I felt like Reynor had a much easier time matching up against Clem's multitasking. Surprised how much weaker Serral appeared. Never felt like he had a chance in any of the 8 games. Reynor can match Clem speed on both ends, and his split against Clem mines is better in general. Also Solar would have given Clem more difficulty than Serral with his defensive style. Reynor has more speed and unpredictability than Serral, but I do not think it would have mattered much today. In addition he hasnt been the same after winning his championship. Something is not clicking in his game atm and he would have lost even more badly today. Clem seems to finally mastered his defense too, which now prevents the zergs counters to hit mineral lines and get ahead in the game. Solar ?? That must be a joke. Serral is like miles ahead of Solar, even when playing not his best. Dark would have prolly been the best answer to Clem today, but I would say that even him it would have been max 5-1 result. Clem was just too perfect today.
Reynor has matched up well against Clem even at his peak, not saying he would beat Clem today, but probably wont be a complete sweep.
And if you check Clem vs Solar match record, you would find that Solar give him the most issue in offline tournament, even took him to game 5 in DH Winter where Clem won the tournament.
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On August 19 2024 02:58 HeroSandro wrote:
Can we now say, that Europe>Korea? I say yes. Maybe you can say EU top-2 is stronger than KR top-2 right now, in this tournament.
Top-11 in this tourney has 8 koreans and 3 europeans.
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GG Clem !
Serral wasn't playing as good even if the map pool favors a bit terran, my fellow frenchie dominated the zerg favored map as well.
As for balance, I think zvt can be balanced by the map pool, like yeah, terran late game cannot be adressed frontally once fully set up but the zerg can't caught outmultitask the T with his tool.
Protoss late game on the other end is broken, fortunaly, the only real threat isn't playing offline :p
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overall just a wonderful tournament. and the credit should go primarily to the players, who really showed up. every game, every match, every player played their heart out. so many great series, and at the end of it it's clear that the best player won.
here's to many more years of SC2!
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On August 19 2024 03:01 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2024 02:57 Starcloud wrote:On August 19 2024 02:47 tigera6 wrote:On August 19 2024 02:45 Hider wrote:
This almost makes me want to rewatch the Reynor series. I felt like Reynor had a much easier time matching up against Clem's multitasking. Surprised how much weaker Serral appeared. Never felt like he had a chance in any of the 8 games. Reynor can match Clem speed on both ends, and his split against Clem mines is better in general. Also Solar would have given Clem more difficulty than Serral with his defensive style. Reynor has more speed and unpredictability than Serral, but I do not think it would have mattered much today. In addition he hasnt been the same after winning his championship. Something is not clicking in his game atm and he would have lost even more badly today. Clem seems to finally mastered his defense too, which now prevents the zergs counters to hit mineral lines and get ahead in the game. Solar ?? That must be a joke. Serral is like miles ahead of Solar, even when playing not his best. Dark would have prolly been the best answer to Clem today, but I would say that even him it would have been max 5-1 result. Clem was just too perfect today. Reynor has matched up well against Clem even at his peak, not saying he would beat Clem today, but probably wont be a complete sweep. And if you check Clem vs Solar match record, you would find that Solar give him the most issue in offline tournament, even took him to game 5 in DH Winter where Clem won the tournament.
I agree Reynor would have a shot, solar on the other end is a serial choker, sadly, the bomber's law is too strong with this one.
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On August 19 2024 03:01 ZeroByte13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2024 02:58 HeroSandro wrote:
Can we now say, that Europe>Korea? I say yes. Maybe you can say EU top-2 is stronger than KR top-2 right now, in this tournament. Top-11 in this tourney has 8 koreans and 3 europeans.
Well, Clem is still a question mark in his TvT, he might not even be top 3 at the moment, behind Maru/Cure and in the mix with Oliv/Gumiho. But his TvZ is the best and TvP is probably top 2 if not also the best.
Serral is owning everybody not name Clem lately, so hes still the best in the world overall imo.
Edit: The funny thing is we can see a triangle relationship among Clem-Maru-Serral, one guy need the other to help taking out his "obstacle" early.
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EPT
