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On June 11 2024 17:25 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:17 Koshi wrote:
But the talk was good. It felt like 5 townies. Did you feel deceit? There is no need for any deceit. There is only need for not to vote for sandroba. Mocsta didn't do shit all, and when people started talking about lynching me he just rolled with it. AZ became dumb after being smart on D1. Trfel and Vivax are town. Idk what Vivax actually is doing and Trfel is just too tunneled to objectively look at any argument at all in the game, so he is lost cause. So you're arguing there was 4-5mafia? I dunno who the 5th is that koshi talks of
Oats
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On June 11 2024 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:17 Koshi wrote:
But the talk was good. It felt like 5 townies. Did you feel deceit? There is no need for any deceit. There is only need for not to vote for sandroba. Mocsta didn't do shit all, and when people started talking about lynching me he just rolled with it. AZ became dumb after being smart on D1. Trfel and Vivax are town. Idk what Vivax actually is doing and Trfel is just too tunneled to objectively look at any argument at all in the game, so he is lost cause.
I understand but we need those townies to see the light. If we lynch dmb, she flips town, then we lynch into their group tomorrow. If they refuse, we go to war.
But do we really want to defend dmb vs sandroba?
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If dmb is town my doubts are gone.
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Has anyone else noticed how freaking much Koshi's reads change? Not an issue, just it's hard for me to keep track of.
I guess the real question is if his reads change in a mafia motivated way.
He starts out scumreading marvellosity, Mocsta, and sandroba. And then later drops the scumread on marvellosity. He has townreads on scott31337 and die_meatbaby.
Maybe the first notable part is Koshi's read on Vivax.
+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. On June 10 2024 05:10 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:03 Trfel wrote:I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down  Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level. Besides activity I don't have good reasons either. I just clicked filter, saw 8ish pages, and read his doomsday posts with some misplaced enjoyment. On June 10 2024 19:25 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:59 Trfel wrote:die_meatbaby on VivaxOn June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Die_meatbaby's third post of the game. For what it's worth I don't think this is a terribly good way to read Vivax, but I'm curious if die_meatbaby follows this view throughout the game. On June 10 2024 05:31 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 05:20 Vivax wrote:
One cannot not like Koshi.
He‘s the hypno-buddha in the flesh fewer and fewer town points for you. Maybe I have to reread you filter. you are paranoid about RL but not about the game. Thats kinda strange. I don´t like that More posts to a similar effect but I'm running out of time. Now I need to check if Vivax's posting warrants the change but idk if I have time to do so My guess is that it's debatable. Gut feels say look at raynpelikoneet and Vivax most. Sandroba, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, maybe scott31337 and Oatsmaster after that. No particular order on those. Vivax is just.... so nonsensical? I am really struggling with how he could be town and be like this. I'm honestly willing to give Alakaslam more time when so many otehrs are so sus
##Vote: Vivax On June 10 2024 19:27 Koshi wrote:
I think Tfrel sees the game correctly. I don't see it yet but I sense he could be correct. On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. On June 11 2024 03:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont think the case on vivax is not good imo. Idk how everyone is sheeping that?
I will talk about it when i am home. Wanted to talk about it with AZ first but apparently he is awol. The case on Vivax is good enough. Marv said so. On June 11 2024 04:05 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:02 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no? Because I think you had Vivax. On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first?
I think it's quite interesting how Koshi was kinda thinking Vivax was town (or at least soft defending him), then when people started voting for Vivax he also voted for Vivax, then after people backed off of Vivax, he backed off too, and arguably did so for reasons that existed before he voted for Vivax in the first place. This isn't unreasonable to come from town, but it feels...weird? See for example these two posts:On June 11 2024 04:20 Koshi wrote:
Ok Vivax. Let's pretend you transcended and kept so cool under this pressure. Can you explain to me why I was mafia with reasons prior to 2 hours ago? On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? In the first quote, Koshi is implying that Vivax didn't do well under the pressure. This matches several of Koshi's previous posts. In the second quote, Koshi is backing off of his Vivax scumread. The kicker is that these two posts were made six minutes apart. Maybe Koshi is just like this as town, but it's hard for me not to find this read change suspect when Koshi was stubborn in scumreading Vivax for quite some time, even after I backed off, and then suddenly stopped himself. It feels very convenient.
I think it's also worth looking at Koshi's read progression on raynpelikoneet and die_meatbaby.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi on raynpelikoneet] +On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:
because I townread rayn, and rayn townreads slam, I will not try to read slam and just assume he is town. On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. On June 10 2024 21:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:53 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. Why? I like how he plays this game. The recent things I dont like: 1) Uncommittal comments to marv about my townread on scott during night. I think rayn still scumreads scott and I dont like how he didn't try to convince marv or me during night and just played along. And then marv died. 2) there was 1 more real thing but I forgot. 3) When I like rayn he is often mafia. Rarely he is mafia when I hate his guts. On June 11 2024 03:13 Koshi wrote:
Anyway.
I habe time for scott but not for other people.
rayn is really weird.
Vivax doesnt know what to do with the Tfrel pressure.
Sandroba is doing more of the same.
They can all get lynched. On June 11 2024 04:36 Koshi wrote:rayn: 1) I miss his insightful comments while talking to me. We have been in the same thread together and when marv and I were becoming BFFs, rayn was pretty much on the sidelines. If he didn't like my scott read I would have wanted him to talk to me about it. If he liked it, I would have loved a insightful comment why I was right. But instead he made a comment at marv about how marv also thought scott was town. Later he made a oneliner he also thought scott was town. 2) He is not interacting with me. Or annoying me to find out my alignment. Or anything. So I don't really understand why you say our interactions are weird, there are almost none. az: I have no clue. His activity was there when i wasn't in the thread. On June 11 2024 05:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, dod you reqd anythig i posted during n1? rayn can we be friends and solve the game? sandroba mocsta and slam? What do you think? What is this obsession with AZ On June 11 2024 16:14 Koshi wrote:
rayn can you 100% convince me you are town?
At this point I would switch sides. On June 11 2024 16:34 Koshi wrote:
I dont want to clutter the thread looking for the third.
I think we should keep rayn alive and undisturbed today. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. On June 11 2024 16:44 Koshi wrote:
If sandrobe becomes town. I am willing to switch rayn. But before that. Never. On June 11 2024 17:07 Koshi wrote:
I think there is max 1 mafia in Vivax, Tfrel, Mocsta and Tfrel. Potentially 0. So if you 4 want rayn, and rayn does not want to come to me and talk to me, I can vote him.
So in the end I have no idea what to make of this. Honestly it reads most like Koshi is just thinking out loud, and the constant and sudden direction changes just come from him changing his mind.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi on die_meatbaby] +On June 09 2024 14:37 Koshi wrote:
Ok dmb can be worked with. Good. On June 10 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:
I think DMB is town. Just read her filter. On June 11 2024 03:48 Koshi wrote:
Fml. Between DMB and Vivax there is no way dmb is the mafia. On June 11 2024 05:01 Koshi wrote:
DMB shares my reads and calls me supertown.
Hard for me to lynch her. On June 11 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 15:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 15:47 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 11:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:51 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:44 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:39 AlphaZero wrote:
[quote]
He either keeps up in activity and analysis or does not. He is famous for being low activity as mafia.
Why is he mafia to you. I agreed with his takes pretty much all the time. This is low activity It is, but he had a IRL excuse. If there is an increase in activity now I think it’s less clear. So again I ask, how does he self resolve? He plays the next phase or two like the last two games he played. Or he doesn't I guarantee you he doesn’t In 2 phases it’s gonna be lylo assuming nothing funky happens and we continue to miss. Can you show me some good posts from Sandro? I’m assuming you don’t think the post I pointed out makes him scummy I assume that this is the question you want me to answer, I generally agree with his thinking and worldviews The post you quoted was weak I agree. I just want to give him some time because I think it will become more clear than this either way. And I think there are good alternatives. Like Rayn/koshi/dmb Unreal. Ok so mafia is split up. rayn/Koshi/dmb has 1 or 2Mocsta/Sandroba has 1 or 2 Slam/Vivax/AZ has 0 or 1 Is that it? And us townies are capable to see 1. And we all have 1 mafia sitting in our ass mretending to be our friend. It is obvious Tfrel is town It is obvious Scott is town It is obvious Oats is town Those 3 are consensus right? Might want to add Vivax but dmb is still unsure. what are you saying here.. that you will vote rayn and/or dmb this cycle? I think DMB. I now fully believe we have mafia we are blind towards, and mafia we cant unsee. And for some reason it is perfectly split between the townies. (Well your team has more townies so that is why I consider our team has 2) On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? On June 11 2024 16:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 16:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. Yes. Just like we are not sure about DMB. But let's argue which of these 2 is most likely today. Really like the way you guys approached Oats. Except 1-2 adhoms it was enjoyable to read. There is for sure a lot of town in your team. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet.
This read progression is more challenging to understand. From post #2593, where Koshi says it'll be hard for him to lynch die_meatbaby, to post #2964, where Koshi says he would vote for die_meatbaby this cycle, die_meatbaby has four posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him  Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? On June 11 2024 06:29 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba I am quite certain Vivax is town and i think you are wrong. How does that go with you? I need more time to read vivax and also to read you On June 11 2024 07:19 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:42 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? I don't have a super confident read on sandroba or anything but currently he is being voted by the people in the game I find most suspicious. This makes me very incentivized to keep him alive. He's been low activity/involvement, but that alone doesn't make him mafia imo. You said that he has townreads early, some people value their early townreads, it's a playstyle thing. I will note however that sandroba didn't say he was townreading AlphaZero, just that he liked the point that AlphaZero made. I will note however that the final post of these "townreads" was post #283. By this point, your townread rsoultin said she liked where Vivax's head was at, and that she liked AlphaZero. I don't consider three to be significantly more than two, especially since sandroba was posting at a later point in the game, where there was more that happened. Basically though what I am getting at is that early townreads aren't atypical at all. For example, when rsoultin came back she almost immediately said I looked good (post #343). I don't think Mocsta is a power role, or if he is, it's definitely not because of his post about jailkeeping Oatsmaster or whatever he said. I don't see any reasons that you have given for Mocsta to be mafia outside of associations with sandroba (who I don't really think is mafia) and him saying he is a power role (which I don't believe). If you have other reasons, please let me know. If you are town, I'm going to need some help to see it so we can lynch Koshi and/or raynpelikoneet here. Or heck, even someone else if there is good reason. Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 21:06 die_meatbaby wrote:rsoultin/koshiEither rsoultin or koshi have not given me reasons to see them as mafia. Koshi is really activ, trying to solve the game here. He has a lot of townreads but he plays still like a Townkoshi would. ScottOn June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town I think you are right also in older games from he looked scummy in his town games. TrflOn June 07 2024 20:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Trfel spending time and energy to fence sit seems townie to me, I don’t really like how rayn has approached today tbh the buddying trfel smells not good I thought the same thing kinda suspicious, but I think it was nothing. Trfls Filter wouldn´t make so much sense when he would be mafia. I could not see with who he would be togther in a team. For right now I see him as a Townie Sandrobahttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?user=sandrobathis is 2 page filter. he comes in the game starts with giving town reads on trfl, rayn, az, kelshier. far too early in the game to make so many reads.Then hitting a bit on scott and just going offline for ever. For me this filter is a red flag but maybe things change when he would start to play here again. IF I am corect with sandro mafia then guys look at this shit and you can call me paranoid but thats something now: Mocsta sandro making a few townreads on the people who were activ in the begining but not on mocsta he didn´t get a read On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote:
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me looks like it's such a safe read that it shouldn't be labeled as town right away so as not to stand out directly as teammates then the next posts felt to me like playing togther On June 08 2024 00:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
Basically if the initial question wasn't fake, definitely what rayn answered is not enough to address the question.
If it is fake you are either doing it to create discussion and you don't really care about it, or you are trying to blend in not create discussion.
If you intension is the former which could be a townie agenda, you wouldn't try to cut it short when you got the discussion going, which was what scott did. It makes more sense it was the latter which points to mafia agenda. yeah I get this now and accept it's the most likely options I was too focused on a third option which is too low odds (i.e. genuine role query) the sandro we never saw sandro again... what happend was Mocasta playing normal and calling out that he is jailkeeper and he will save oats n1 I would just love to understand why he didn't die on the first night. If someone blue called you kill them that night as mafia. Why are you still alive? What did Marv do to get himself killed and not the PR? Are you really blue???? Are you really fucking Town? Or are you playing with sandro? and why jail oats anyway? if you are town why are you saving oats. Why is he so Town to you. Why not Koshi, marv people who are strong town and often die early. Why oats? Or have I already found the team here? this hole thing fucks my head. Either you fuck with me or the mafia, because it doesn´t make sense to me! also in the same time i think VivaxI think I already explained enough why I think he mafia. But this read could change again. He is hell of paranoid but in RL right now not in the game, maybe this leads to a false read but when he is playing like this he is def. mafia in my eyes. Then I have the question again why is oats in this involved if my currents reads would be correct or is oats red and vivax green? I don´t thinks so oats looking more townisch then vivax. I am still unsure how read oats. AZ I don´t have a good feeling with him. Feels like he wann kinda lead Town somewhere, but not in a way that is too conspicuous. Still try to figure out if this is DP or Palmar. But I think it´s someone who I have played with already. No read on him right now Rayn In every fucking game we have played I have read him wrong. He was town i thought mafia and the other way around. I am still to fucking unsure what to think of him right now. In my head kinda scummy so lets say more townisch because I am always wrong with my read on him. Slam to less activ to make a read. It´s anyways always hard to read slam but when he only appears minutes before or after somebody died then I can really not read him AND YOU ALL CAN CALL ME FUCKING PARANOID FOR THIS SANDRO/ MOCSTAR SHIT BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SHIT GOING ON BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM I already explained here why they are together. I have a hard times to read rayn. Why do you think he is mafla?
It's hard to say if there is anything there that justifies Koshi's read change. If Koshi's mindset/game view changed then this is more understandable, but I don't really think die_meatbaby's play alone can explain it.
In conclusion, I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas?
To me, Koshi's read progressions on Vivax and die_meatbaby feel a bit fake and also convenient, however his read progression on raynpelikoneet comes across as significantly more genuine.
It's hard for me to understand Koshi's approach but that doesn't make him mafia, that just makes him confusing. Koshi, or anyone else, any insight?
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Currently I think it is for 100% sure sandroba. 85% dmb. And then the last I dont know.
I am willing to go to the 85%.
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On June 11 2024 17:49 Koshi wrote:
Currently I think it is for 100% sure sandroba. 85% dmb. And then the last I dont know.
I am willing to go to the 85%. In all honesty, can I ask why?
You have the sandroba lynch at your fingertips, why would you give it up for something you think is less likely?
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On June 11 2024 17:48 Trfel wrote:Has anyone else noticed how freaking much Koshi's reads change? Not an issue, just it's hard for me to keep track of. I guess the real question is if his reads change in a mafia motivated way. He starts out scumreading marvellosity, Mocsta, and sandroba. And then later drops the scumread on marvellosity. He has townreads on scott31337 and die_meatbaby. Maybe the first notable part is Koshi's read on Vivax. + Show Spoiler [quotes] +On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. On June 10 2024 05:10 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:03 Trfel wrote:I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level. Besides activity I don't have good reasons either. I just clicked filter, saw 8ish pages, and read his doomsday posts with some misplaced enjoyment. On June 10 2024 19:25 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:59 Trfel wrote:die_meatbaby on VivaxOn June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Die_meatbaby's third post of the game. For what it's worth I don't think this is a terribly good way to read Vivax, but I'm curious if die_meatbaby follows this view throughout the game. On June 10 2024 05:31 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 05:20 Vivax wrote:
One cannot not like Koshi.
He‘s the hypno-buddha in the flesh fewer and fewer town points for you. Maybe I have to reread you filter. you are paranoid about RL but not about the game. Thats kinda strange. I don´t like that More posts to a similar effect but I'm running out of time. Now I need to check if Vivax's posting warrants the change but idk if I have time to do so My guess is that it's debatable. Gut feels say look at raynpelikoneet and Vivax most. Sandroba, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, maybe scott31337 and Oatsmaster after that. No particular order on those. Vivax is just.... so nonsensical? I am really struggling with how he could be town and be like this. I'm honestly willing to give Alakaslam more time when so many otehrs are so sus
##Vote: Vivax On June 10 2024 19:27 Koshi wrote:
I think Tfrel sees the game correctly. I don't see it yet but I sense he could be correct. On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. On June 11 2024 03:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont think the case on vivax is not good imo. Idk how everyone is sheeping that?
I will talk about it when i am home. Wanted to talk about it with AZ first but apparently he is awol. The case on Vivax is good enough. Marv said so. On June 11 2024 04:05 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:02 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no? Because I think you had Vivax. On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? I think it's quite interesting how Koshi was kinda thinking Vivax was town (or at least soft defending him), then when people started voting for Vivax he also voted for Vivax, then after people backed off of Vivax, he backed off too, and arguably did so for reasons that existed before he voted for Vivax in the first place. This isn't unreasonable to come from town, but it feels...weird? See for example these two posts: Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:20 Koshi wrote:
Ok Vivax. Let's pretend you transcended and kept so cool under this pressure. Can you explain to me why I was mafia with reasons prior to 2 hours ago? Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? In the first quote, Koshi is implying that Vivax didn't do well under the pressure. This matches several of Koshi's previous posts. In the second quote, Koshi is backing off of his Vivax scumread. The kicker is that these two posts were made six minutes apart. Maybe Koshi is just like this as town, but it's hard for me not to find this read change suspect when Koshi was stubborn in scumreading Vivax for quite some time, even after I backed off, and then suddenly stopped himself. It feels very convenient. I think it's also worth looking at Koshi's read progression on raynpelikoneet and die_meatbaby. + Show Spoiler [Koshi on raynpelikoneet] +On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:
because I townread rayn, and rayn townreads slam, I will not try to read slam and just assume he is town. On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. On June 10 2024 21:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:53 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. Why? I like how he plays this game. The recent things I dont like: 1) Uncommittal comments to marv about my townread on scott during night. I think rayn still scumreads scott and I dont like how he didn't try to convince marv or me during night and just played along. And then marv died. 2) there was 1 more real thing but I forgot. 3) When I like rayn he is often mafia. Rarely he is mafia when I hate his guts. On June 11 2024 03:13 Koshi wrote:
Anyway.
I habe time for scott but not for other people.
rayn is really weird.
Vivax doesnt know what to do with the Tfrel pressure.
Sandroba is doing more of the same.
They can all get lynched. On June 11 2024 04:36 Koshi wrote:rayn: 1) I miss his insightful comments while talking to me. We have been in the same thread together and when marv and I were becoming BFFs, rayn was pretty much on the sidelines. If he didn't like my scott read I would have wanted him to talk to me about it. If he liked it, I would have loved a insightful comment why I was right. But instead he made a comment at marv about how marv also thought scott was town. Later he made a oneliner he also thought scott was town. 2) He is not interacting with me. Or annoying me to find out my alignment. Or anything. So I don't really understand why you say our interactions are weird, there are almost none. az: I have no clue. His activity was there when i wasn't in the thread. On June 11 2024 05:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, dod you reqd anythig i posted during n1? rayn can we be friends and solve the game? sandroba mocsta and slam? What do you think? What is this obsession with AZ On June 11 2024 16:14 Koshi wrote:
rayn can you 100% convince me you are town?
At this point I would switch sides. On June 11 2024 16:34 Koshi wrote:
I dont want to clutter the thread looking for the third.
I think we should keep rayn alive and undisturbed today. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. On June 11 2024 16:44 Koshi wrote:
If sandrobe becomes town. I am willing to switch rayn. But before that. Never. On June 11 2024 17:07 Koshi wrote:
I think there is max 1 mafia in Vivax, Tfrel, Mocsta and Tfrel. Potentially 0. So if you 4 want rayn, and rayn does not want to come to me and talk to me, I can vote him. So in the end I have no idea what to make of this. Honestly it reads most like Koshi is just thinking out loud, and the constant and sudden direction changes just come from him changing his mind. + Show Spoiler [Koshi on die_meatbaby] +On June 09 2024 14:37 Koshi wrote:
Ok dmb can be worked with. Good. On June 10 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:
I think DMB is town. Just read her filter. On June 11 2024 03:48 Koshi wrote:
Fml. Between DMB and Vivax there is no way dmb is the mafia. On June 11 2024 05:01 Koshi wrote:
DMB shares my reads and calls me supertown.
Hard for me to lynch her. On June 11 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 15:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 15:47 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 11:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:51 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:44 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:39 AlphaZero wrote:
[quote]
He either keeps up in activity and analysis or does not. He is famous for being low activity as mafia.
Why is he mafia to you. I agreed with his takes pretty much all the time. This is low activity It is, but he had a IRL excuse. If there is an increase in activity now I think it’s less clear. So again I ask, how does he self resolve? He plays the next phase or two like the last two games he played. Or he doesn't I guarantee you he doesn’t In 2 phases it’s gonna be lylo assuming nothing funky happens and we continue to miss. Can you show me some good posts from Sandro? I’m assuming you don’t think the post I pointed out makes him scummy I assume that this is the question you want me to answer, I generally agree with his thinking and worldviews The post you quoted was weak I agree. I just want to give him some time because I think it will become more clear than this either way. And I think there are good alternatives. Like Rayn/koshi/dmb Unreal. Ok so mafia is split up. rayn/Koshi/dmb has 1 or 2Mocsta/Sandroba has 1 or 2 Slam/Vivax/AZ has 0 or 1 Is that it? And us townies are capable to see 1. And we all have 1 mafia sitting in our ass mretending to be our friend. It is obvious Tfrel is town It is obvious Scott is town It is obvious Oats is town Those 3 are consensus right? Might want to add Vivax but dmb is still unsure. what are you saying here.. that you will vote rayn and/or dmb this cycle? I think DMB. I now fully believe we have mafia we are blind towards, and mafia we cant unsee. And for some reason it is perfectly split between the townies. (Well your team has more townies so that is why I consider our team has 2) On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? On June 11 2024 16:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 16:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. Yes. Just like we are not sure about DMB. But let's argue which of these 2 is most likely today. Really like the way you guys approached Oats. Except 1-2 adhoms it was enjoyable to read. There is for sure a lot of town in your team. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. This read progression is more challenging to understand. From post #2593, where Koshi says it'll be hard for him to lynch die_meatbaby, to post #2964, where Koshi says he would vote for die_meatbaby this cycle, die_meatbaby has four posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? On June 11 2024 06:29 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba I am quite certain Vivax is town and i think you are wrong. How does that go with you? I need more time to read vivax and also to read you On June 11 2024 07:19 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:42 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? I don't have a super confident read on sandroba or anything but currently he is being voted by the people in the game I find most suspicious. This makes me very incentivized to keep him alive. He's been low activity/involvement, but that alone doesn't make him mafia imo. You said that he has townreads early, some people value their early townreads, it's a playstyle thing. I will note however that sandroba didn't say he was townreading AlphaZero, just that he liked the point that AlphaZero made. I will note however that the final post of these "townreads" was post #283. By this point, your townread rsoultin said she liked where Vivax's head was at, and that she liked AlphaZero. I don't consider three to be significantly more than two, especially since sandroba was posting at a later point in the game, where there was more that happened. Basically though what I am getting at is that early townreads aren't atypical at all. For example, when rsoultin came back she almost immediately said I looked good (post #343). I don't think Mocsta is a power role, or if he is, it's definitely not because of his post about jailkeeping Oatsmaster or whatever he said. I don't see any reasons that you have given for Mocsta to be mafia outside of associations with sandroba (who I don't really think is mafia) and him saying he is a power role (which I don't believe). If you have other reasons, please let me know. If you are town, I'm going to need some help to see it so we can lynch Koshi and/or raynpelikoneet here. Or heck, even someone else if there is good reason. Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 21:06 die_meatbaby wrote:rsoultin/koshiEither rsoultin or koshi have not given me reasons to see them as mafia. Koshi is really activ, trying to solve the game here. He has a lot of townreads but he plays still like a Townkoshi would. ScottOn June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town I think you are right also in older games from he looked scummy in his town games. TrflOn June 07 2024 20:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Trfel spending time and energy to fence sit seems townie to me, I don’t really like how rayn has approached today tbh the buddying trfel smells not good I thought the same thing kinda suspicious, but I think it was nothing. Trfls Filter wouldn´t make so much sense when he would be mafia. I could not see with who he would be togther in a team. For right now I see him as a Townie Sandrobahttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?user=sandrobathis is 2 page filter. he comes in the game starts with giving town reads on trfl, rayn, az, kelshier. far too early in the game to make so many reads.Then hitting a bit on scott and just going offline for ever. For me this filter is a red flag but maybe things change when he would start to play here again. IF I am corect with sandro mafia then guys look at this shit and you can call me paranoid but thats something now: Mocsta sandro making a few townreads on the people who were activ in the begining but not on mocsta he didn´t get a read On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote:
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me looks like it's such a safe read that it shouldn't be labeled as town right away so as not to stand out directly as teammates then the next posts felt to me like playing togther On June 08 2024 00:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
Basically if the initial question wasn't fake, definitely what rayn answered is not enough to address the question.
If it is fake you are either doing it to create discussion and you don't really care about it, or you are trying to blend in not create discussion.
If you intension is the former which could be a townie agenda, you wouldn't try to cut it short when you got the discussion going, which was what scott did. It makes more sense it was the latter which points to mafia agenda. yeah I get this now and accept it's the most likely options I was too focused on a third option which is too low odds (i.e. genuine role query) the sandro we never saw sandro again... what happend was Mocasta playing normal and calling out that he is jailkeeper and he will save oats n1 I would just love to understand why he didn't die on the first night. If someone blue called you kill them that night as mafia. Why are you still alive? What did Marv do to get himself killed and not the PR? Are you really blue???? Are you really fucking Town? Or are you playing with sandro? and why jail oats anyway? if you are town why are you saving oats. Why is he so Town to you. Why not Koshi, marv people who are strong town and often die early. Why oats? Or have I already found the team here? this hole thing fucks my head. Either you fuck with me or the mafia, because it doesn´t make sense to me! also in the same time i think VivaxI think I already explained enough why I think he mafia. But this read could change again. He is hell of paranoid but in RL right now not in the game, maybe this leads to a false read but when he is playing like this he is def. mafia in my eyes. Then I have the question again why is oats in this involved if my currents reads would be correct or is oats red and vivax green? I don´t thinks so oats looking more townisch then vivax. I am still unsure how read oats. AZ I don´t have a good feeling with him. Feels like he wann kinda lead Town somewhere, but not in a way that is too conspicuous. Still try to figure out if this is DP or Palmar. But I think it´s someone who I have played with already. No read on him right now Rayn In every fucking game we have played I have read him wrong. He was town i thought mafia and the other way around. I am still to fucking unsure what to think of him right now. In my head kinda scummy so lets say more townisch because I am always wrong with my read on him. Slam to less activ to make a read. It´s anyways always hard to read slam but when he only appears minutes before or after somebody died then I can really not read him AND YOU ALL CAN CALL ME FUCKING PARANOID FOR THIS SANDRO/ MOCSTAR SHIT BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SHIT GOING ON BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM I already explained here why they are together. I have a hard times to read rayn. Why do you think he is mafla? It's hard to say if there is anything there that justifies Koshi's read change. If Koshi's mindset/game view changed then this is more understandable, but I don't really think die_meatbaby's play alone can explain it.
In conclusion, I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas? To me, Koshi's read progressions on Vivax and die_meatbaby feel a bit fake and also convenient, however his read progression on raynpelikoneet comes across as significantly more genuine. It's hard for me to understand Koshi's approach but that doesn't make him mafia, that just makes him confusing. Koshi, or anyone else, any insight?
I am the opposite of an analytical player. I basically forget what people posted 5 seconds after I read it except for a few posts that linger.
I more gouge what is happening and how it makes me feel.
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On June 11 2024 17:42 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:28 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:25 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:17 Koshi wrote:
But the talk was good. It felt like 5 townies. Did you feel deceit? There is no need for any deceit. There is only need for not to vote for sandroba. Mocsta didn't do shit all, and when people started talking about lynching me he just rolled with it. AZ became dumb after being smart on D1. Trfel and Vivax are town. Idk what Vivax actually is doing and Trfel is just too tunneled to objectively look at any argument at all in the game, so he is lost cause. So you're arguing there was 4-5mafia? I dunno who the 5th is that koshi talks of are you fucking stupid? let's go with yes as I'm reading what you're writing Koshi asked a yes/no question and I saw waffles Stupid, mofo waffles Tbh that was bad mocsta. well rayn was asked 2 things. 1 direct. 1 indirect
Rayn answered neither
Direct. "Was their deceit" = there was no need for deceit
i.e. reframed scummy by dodging the question
Indirect. "But the talk was good.it felt like 5 townies" = mocsta shit. Az dumb. Trfel lost cause. Vivax lose causw
I.e. gives 2 of 5 a town read with a caveat... Again scummy reframe.
Now.. the counter argument is that rayn is defensive due to votes. Yet... This is both overly antagonist (per my comments above) and bear in mind, as a town!rayn, koshi has mostly been an advocate for rayn and asked very politely.
Even oats for all his abrasiveness and bravado does not ignore and reframe in this way.
This for me is a very clear approach that only comes from.mafia mindset.
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The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually.
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On June 11 2024 17:56 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:42 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 17:28 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:25 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:17 Koshi wrote:
But the talk was good. It felt like 5 townies. Did you feel deceit? There is no need for any deceit. There is only need for not to vote for sandroba. Mocsta didn't do shit all, and when people started talking about lynching me he just rolled with it. AZ became dumb after being smart on D1. Trfel and Vivax are town. Idk what Vivax actually is doing and Trfel is just too tunneled to objectively look at any argument at all in the game, so he is lost cause. So you're arguing there was 4-5mafia? I dunno who the 5th is that koshi talks of are you fucking stupid? let's go with yes as I'm reading what you're writing Koshi asked a yes/no question and I saw waffles Stupid, mofo waffles Tbh that was bad mocsta. well rayn was asked 2 things. 1 direct. 1 indirect Rayn answered neither Direct. "Was their deceit" = there was no need for deceit i.e. reframed scummy by dodging the questionIndirect. "But the talk was good.it felt like 5 townies" = mocsta shit. Az dumb. Trfel lost cause. Vivax lose causw
I.e. gives 2 of 5 a town read with a caveat... Again scummy reframe.Now.. the counter argument is that rayn is defensive due to votes. Yet... This is both overly antagonist (per my comments above) and bear in mind, as a town!rayn, koshi has mostly been an advocate for rayn and asked very politely. Even oats for all his abrasiveness and bravado does not ignore and reframe in this way. This for me is a very clear approach that only comes from.mafia mindset.
mafia post
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literally said i think there is 4-5 mafia, now says i actually gave 2/5 town read.
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On June 11 2024 17:51 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:48 Trfel wrote:Has anyone else noticed how freaking much Koshi's reads change? Not an issue, just it's hard for me to keep track of. I guess the real question is if his reads change in a mafia motivated way. He starts out scumreading marvellosity, Mocsta, and sandroba. And then later drops the scumread on marvellosity. He has townreads on scott31337 and die_meatbaby. Maybe the first notable part is Koshi's read on Vivax. + Show Spoiler [quotes] +On June 10 2024 05:07 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 04:58 Trfel wrote:Vivax+ Show Spoiler +Vivax seemed to scumread both scott31337 and Kelsi3r. He spent much of his day 1 trying to figure out which was the better lynch (while suspecting both). See these posts (for example) about his increasing desire to lynch Kelsi3r: On June 09 2024 07:18 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:03 Mocsta wrote:
I'm becoming more and more open to lynch outside kelsier
He doesn't looked bullied out to me as his tone is pretty consistent start to finish
I still think his tone specifically to me is more unhelpful mafia than town, however the nonchalantness is somewhat consistent even after which I am.imcreasingly.viewing as townie
...
I really don't want to vote Scott for mason stuff
Is there a case outside of that?
....
Rsoultin I will give sandroba a read I think the opposite the less Kelsier does the more I want to lynch him. Feels like a weird defense here if you don‘t have a particularly strong conviction outside of that. On June 09 2024 07:51 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 07:46 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 07:39 Vivax wrote:
I‘m comfy with Az taking the reins here. They seem competent and townish to me.
Them pitting Oats against me was a bit dickish tho If you do this, He's going to want to lynch me and I'll flip town. Only if you lynch him D2 is this a suitable outcome. There‘s people I think are around but just choosing not to post. Mocsta and him would be my guess. I‘m moving to Kelsier. He doesn‘t appear motivated anyway. On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. Then Vivax has this reason to vote for scott31337: On June 09 2024 09:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:19 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:04 AlphaZero wrote:On June 09 2024 08:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:58 rsoultin wrote:On June 09 2024 08:47 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 08:45 Vivax wrote:
What I like about scott is that he seemed pretty genuine as of late. He isn‘t really trying every trick in the book to keep himself afloat just doing his thing.
Kelsier might have given up as either alignment. town can also not want to be mislynched.. is this 'effort'notion a scott meta thing? at the risk of answering for viva if scum's gonna keep posting they want to either 1) try to get the lynch off them 2) shit up the thread or they just roll over i guess there's the third option of trying to get more attention so it's off a scummate if you've got two scum up for lynch? i wouldn't say that's what scott's posting looks like. guy's been scumread from minute 1 and still is just bebopping around salient notion alphazero - where does that sit with you? Well he is trying to survive, to me he just continues to exhibit the traits that o find scummy and I outlined above. Says things and can’t provide foundations or reasoning that can really be taken seriously. We can even contrast that with your own play, you have looked substantially more town aligned the more you interacted and explained thought processes and your reads have changed and grown as that has happened. Scott’s reads haven’t changed and he hasn’t looked any better. That is classic mafia trait imo. I favor Oats more than the last magical time you are making up. That's a change of read. Rsoul is a little higher on my list as well. Trfel isn't going to change much today unless he does something stupid. What's there to change on DMB,sandroba, and Alakaslam? They haven't posted. Marv isn't coming back tonight from his word. Kelsi3r - nuff said Mocsta - I still town read him even if he gets junk from other people. Is still thinking reasonable, unlike yourself. Vivax - I wouldn't lynch today either. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 09:38 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:33 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 09:29 scott31337 wrote:On June 09 2024 09:18 Mocsta wrote:
one underlying issue i have with scott is that
when he was getting heat and i backed him, he made some posts that soft buddied to me.. which i thought was completely reasonable if town.
my issue therefore is that, as my read with AZ has shifted and evolved, hes not paid attention (publicly at least) to it.. no comments or impact on scotts AZ read is very weird to me.
now scott says hes completely up to date, so its been read, and apparently not relevant - so again. i find this super super weird and struggling to identify how town would do that. AZ is not the lynch today unless everyone expands their mind. So forgive me for not spending the energy nested into such. But he's my #2 still - so help me out - maybe I missed a point of yours. Excuse me but what do you mean by the bolded. Town. Yes. I'm town. But that doesn't answer the question. If you're so convinced we should lynch AZ which I suppose you are by saying that the mind of town is closed, why isn't he in the list ? And then this? On June 09 2024 10:52 Vivax wrote:
Considering the time I‘ll just let Kelsier happen ig He sounds so sad about lynching Kelsi3r, who he was very content to lynch for much of the day, and was getting increasingly happy to lynch until scott31337 did something that stuck out to him as especially scummy. This doesn't add up from the town perspective, Vivax ought to be at least content with a Kelsi3r lynch. Then, Vivax has a series of posts after the deadline about scott31337 being town: On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:09 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 09 2024 12:07 Vivax wrote:
Scott is never going to get lynched on D2, and he isn‘t going to get vigged either. Going by experience.
Doesn‘t have to be a bad thing but it means we look for 2-3 outside of him. how about giving a look on ninja rayn or az Az lookedlike he was posting forcibly around EoD, rayn didn‘t make himself readable. Townies can have reasons to refuse to be readable. To be honest everyone has good reason to refuse to be readable. I‘d guess the masons of the day were rayn and Trfel. The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. On June 09 2024 12:17 Vivax wrote:
With the Kelsier flip and if he‘s town, Scott starts becoming useful to mafia. On June 09 2024 12:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 12:32 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:25 Vivax wrote:On June 09 2024 12:18 Mocsta wrote:On June 09 2024 12:13 Vivax wrote:
The flip doesn‘t automatically make Scott more scummy, if you were town in his situation you‘d understand why, so look at those who think so. help me out, im being dumb dumb the only reason i can see is this from marv https://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?page=66#1302like.. why cant mafia have wagoned kelsier to save scott equally? i get in marv of rsoultin, he is expecting the most likely answer is double-town wagon; yet, why cannot it not be an effort to save scott equally? It‘s beneficial to take sides as mafia here. Or maybe look undecided. They only have two buffets to choose from and don‘t have to be active so there‘s zero downside to being active, preferrably on the side of the one who‘s going to remain unflipped. Without accounting for players who are time constrained or just don‘t care enough. i see which feeds into my ongoing concerns with how the kelsi3r train was building i dont want to blanket discard how d1 unfolded for you; heuristically for me, its really hard to not acknowledge the complexities of having 1/3 of town to barely post for the 24hrs before lynch. it makes it hard for me to then follow your interpretation. i am in agreement with the other post that there should be options outside of scott tomorrow though. Right ? Wouldn‘t make much sense after a majority decided to spare him. My next favourite would be the rsoultin slot because theirs was one of the deciding votes. Not necessarily to lynch but definitely to consider. Which makes absolutely no sense given that he still strongly believes that scott31337 is mafia. How is not lynching scott31337, who is mafia, a bad thing? That's absolutely a bad thing! Vivax was seemingly frustrated that he had to settle for the Kelsi3r lynch instead of lynching scott31337, why is he suddenly accepting the "majority-decided" verdict of keeping scott31337 alive and why is that a reason to focus on other people instead? It's not that what Vivax is saying is wrong necessarily, or in other words, it's completely fine to have alternative lynch options to scott31337. But from the perspective of someone who thinks scott31337 is mafia, and just missed out on lynching him, why is his focus on finding other people to focus on (besides scott31337) and what it means if scott31337 is town? Why isn't his focus on scott31337 being mafia? If Vivax was no longer scumreading scott31337 then this makes sense, but that isn't the case at all: On June 10 2024 00:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 00:14 Trfel wrote:On June 09 2024 23:53 Vivax wrote:
I have a townread on dmb fwiw. She seems very relaxed tonally.
I‘d like a doc on marv.
I‘d like rayn to play the game.
I love GabeN Is scott31337 mafia still? I think so. Don‘t understand his post about AZ if he isn‘t. The end result is that Vivax is very suspicious. There hasn't been the normal insightful thinking or tinfoil, he seemed very happy with the two wagons day 1 (scott31337 and Kelsi3r), despite the odds of both being mafia being quite low. I would have thought this was even more suspicious for someone with paranoia like Vivax, but instead he seems quite content with the gamestate. What is the core of your case? You believe town!Vivax should be trying to convince the thread to lynch scott more because his mindset is that scott is sure mafia? The fact Vivax is not doing that makes you think that this is mafia!Vivax faking reads. Because some of the quotes from your previous case felt like it was just Vivax bantering and being at worst apathic about towns capabilities based on previous games and stuff. On June 10 2024 05:10 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 05:03 Trfel wrote:I was really hoping that Vivax would go after me more and give himself away but unfortunately he backed down Does anyone have a reason that Vivax might not be mafia? Because I don't really have reservations tbh, besides potentially activity level. Besides activity I don't have good reasons either. I just clicked filter, saw 8ish pages, and read his doomsday posts with some misplaced enjoyment. On June 10 2024 19:25 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 10:59 Trfel wrote:die_meatbaby on VivaxOn June 08 2024 09:04 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 08 2024 08:17 AlphaZero wrote:
I’ll lynch vivax with you oats.
Vote:vivax Is first time you play with vivax? I am used to always read vivax first because for me are 2 option with vivax first when i am mafia I have to get him out of the game as fast as possibole second is if i am town he is still the "easiest" read for me. If vivax is mafia he just posting random shit, jokes, memes, off the topic stuff and hating the government of austria if he is Town he actually trys to tell us his opinion, try to find scummy shit, beeing paranoid about chez but he is not in the game and hating the government of austria. For me he looks like Town (atm) you have any other scum reads? Die_meatbaby's third post of the game. For what it's worth I don't think this is a terribly good way to read Vivax, but I'm curious if die_meatbaby follows this view throughout the game. On June 10 2024 05:31 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 10 2024 05:20 Vivax wrote:
One cannot not like Koshi.
He‘s the hypno-buddha in the flesh fewer and fewer town points for you. Maybe I have to reread you filter. you are paranoid about RL but not about the game. Thats kinda strange. I don´t like that More posts to a similar effect but I'm running out of time. Now I need to check if Vivax's posting warrants the change but idk if I have time to do so My guess is that it's debatable. Gut feels say look at raynpelikoneet and Vivax most. Sandroba, die_meatbaby, Alakaslam, maybe scott31337 and Oatsmaster after that. No particular order on those. Vivax is just.... so nonsensical? I am really struggling with how he could be town and be like this. I'm honestly willing to give Alakaslam more time when so many otehrs are so sus
##Vote: Vivax On June 10 2024 19:27 Koshi wrote:
I think Tfrel sees the game correctly. I don't see it yet but I sense he could be correct. On June 10 2024 20:43 Koshi wrote:
I am 20000000% town on scott and if somebody calls him mafia I am just going to vote that person.
Like Vivax is. On June 11 2024 03:09 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I dont think the case on vivax is not good imo. Idk how everyone is sheeping that?
I will talk about it when i am home. Wanted to talk about it with AZ first but apparently he is awol. The case on Vivax is good enough. Marv said so. On June 11 2024 04:05 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:02 Trfel wrote:
I'm honestly confused at how Koshi can be so upset over this?
The only reason someone should be this upset IMO is if they were extremely invested in seeing Vivax lynched.
With that in mind, why does Koshi think Vivax is mafia? When he voted for Vivax, he quoted one of my posts, presumably as reasoning. However, that was a post about die_meatbaby with a one-liner on Vivax. Koshi also seems to think Vivax is mafia because Vivax thinks scott31337 is mafia.
If Koshi was so certain and invested in Vivax being mafia that he'd get this upset at me backing off of the Vivax pressure, surely he'd have some actual reasons, no? Because I think you had Vivax. On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? I think it's quite interesting how Koshi was kinda thinking Vivax was town (or at least soft defending him), then when people started voting for Vivax he also voted for Vivax, then after people backed off of Vivax, he backed off too, and arguably did so for reasons that existed before he voted for Vivax in the first place. This isn't unreasonable to come from town, but it feels...weird? See for example these two posts: On June 11 2024 04:20 Koshi wrote:
Ok Vivax. Let's pretend you transcended and kept so cool under this pressure. Can you explain to me why I was mafia with reasons prior to 2 hours ago? On June 11 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 04:24 sandroba wrote:
I reject this premise. I just got back into the game and I am enjoying myself, especially now that it seems we are on the right track. That's good. Everybody should have fun. I also don't think Vivax is mafia anymore. 15 pages is way too much. Should we lynch rayn? Or me first? In the first quote, Koshi is implying that Vivax didn't do well under the pressure. This matches several of Koshi's previous posts. In the second quote, Koshi is backing off of his Vivax scumread. The kicker is that these two posts were made six minutes apart. Maybe Koshi is just like this as town, but it's hard for me not to find this read change suspect when Koshi was stubborn in scumreading Vivax for quite some time, even after I backed off, and then suddenly stopped himself. It feels very convenient. I think it's also worth looking at Koshi's read progression on raynpelikoneet and die_meatbaby. + Show Spoiler [Koshi on raynpelikoneet] +On June 09 2024 14:45 Koshi wrote:
because I townread rayn, and rayn townreads slam, I will not try to read slam and just assume he is town. On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. On June 10 2024 21:11 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 20:53 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 20:38 Koshi wrote:On June 10 2024 19:46 AlphaZero wrote:On June 10 2024 19:42 Koshi wrote:
Vivax and rayn is really a good place to start today.
Good job Tfrel.
This is very good.
It feels good. I thought you had Rayn as really townie? Why is that and what changed for you? Yes. I like rayn this game. Nothing changed. Why? I like how he plays this game. The recent things I dont like: 1) Uncommittal comments to marv about my townread on scott during night. I think rayn still scumreads scott and I dont like how he didn't try to convince marv or me during night and just played along. And then marv died. 2) there was 1 more real thing but I forgot. 3) When I like rayn he is often mafia. Rarely he is mafia when I hate his guts. On June 11 2024 03:13 Koshi wrote:
Anyway.
I habe time for scott but not for other people.
rayn is really weird.
Vivax doesnt know what to do with the Tfrel pressure.
Sandroba is doing more of the same.
They can all get lynched. On June 11 2024 04:36 Koshi wrote:rayn: 1) I miss his insightful comments while talking to me. We have been in the same thread together and when marv and I were becoming BFFs, rayn was pretty much on the sidelines. If he didn't like my scott read I would have wanted him to talk to me about it. If he liked it, I would have loved a insightful comment why I was right. But instead he made a comment at marv about how marv also thought scott was town. Later he made a oneliner he also thought scott was town. 2) He is not interacting with me. Or annoying me to find out my alignment. Or anything. So I don't really understand why you say our interactions are weird, there are almost none. az: I have no clue. His activity was there when i wasn't in the thread. On June 11 2024 05:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, dod you reqd anythig i posted during n1? rayn can we be friends and solve the game? sandroba mocsta and slam? What do you think? What is this obsession with AZ On June 11 2024 16:14 Koshi wrote:
rayn can you 100% convince me you are town?
At this point I would switch sides. On June 11 2024 16:34 Koshi wrote:
I dont want to clutter the thread looking for the third.
I think we should keep rayn alive and undisturbed today. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. On June 11 2024 16:44 Koshi wrote:
If sandrobe becomes town. I am willing to switch rayn. But before that. Never. On June 11 2024 17:07 Koshi wrote:
I think there is max 1 mafia in Vivax, Tfrel, Mocsta and Tfrel. Potentially 0. So if you 4 want rayn, and rayn does not want to come to me and talk to me, I can vote him. So in the end I have no idea what to make of this. Honestly it reads most like Koshi is just thinking out loud, and the constant and sudden direction changes just come from him changing his mind. + Show Spoiler [Koshi on die_meatbaby] +On June 09 2024 14:37 Koshi wrote:
Ok dmb can be worked with. Good. On June 10 2024 04:26 Koshi wrote:
I think DMB is town. Just read her filter. On June 11 2024 03:48 Koshi wrote:
Fml. Between DMB and Vivax there is no way dmb is the mafia. On June 11 2024 05:01 Koshi wrote:
DMB shares my reads and calls me supertown.
Hard for me to lynch her. On June 11 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 15:59 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 15:47 Koshi wrote:On June 11 2024 11:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:51 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:46 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:44 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 09:42 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 11 2024 09:39 AlphaZero wrote:
[quote]
He either keeps up in activity and analysis or does not. He is famous for being low activity as mafia.
Why is he mafia to you. I agreed with his takes pretty much all the time. This is low activity It is, but he had a IRL excuse. If there is an increase in activity now I think it’s less clear. So again I ask, how does he self resolve? He plays the next phase or two like the last two games he played. Or he doesn't I guarantee you he doesn’t In 2 phases it’s gonna be lylo assuming nothing funky happens and we continue to miss. Can you show me some good posts from Sandro? I’m assuming you don’t think the post I pointed out makes him scummy I assume that this is the question you want me to answer, I generally agree with his thinking and worldviews The post you quoted was weak I agree. I just want to give him some time because I think it will become more clear than this either way. And I think there are good alternatives. Like Rayn/koshi/dmb Unreal. Ok so mafia is split up. rayn/Koshi/dmb has 1 or 2Mocsta/Sandroba has 1 or 2 Slam/Vivax/AZ has 0 or 1 Is that it? And us townies are capable to see 1. And we all have 1 mafia sitting in our ass mretending to be our friend. It is obvious Tfrel is town It is obvious Scott is town It is obvious Oats is town Those 3 are consensus right? Might want to add Vivax but dmb is still unsure. what are you saying here.. that you will vote rayn and/or dmb this cycle? I think DMB. I now fully believe we have mafia we are blind towards, and mafia we cant unsee. And for some reason it is perfectly split between the townies. (Well your team has more townies so that is why I consider our team has 2) On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? On June 11 2024 16:37 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 16:35 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third? IM not sure on Sandro. I think DMB is likely. Yes. Just like we are not sure about DMB. But let's argue which of these 2 is most likely today. Really like the way you guys approached Oats. Except 1-2 adhoms it was enjoyable to read. There is for sure a lot of town in your team. On June 11 2024 16:43 Koshi wrote:
I am willing to vote dmb.
Not rayn. Not yet. This read progression is more challenging to understand. From post #2593, where Koshi says it'll be hard for him to lynch die_meatbaby, to post #2964, where Koshi says he would vote for die_meatbaby this cycle, die_meatbaby has four posts: + Show Spoiler +On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? On June 11 2024 06:29 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 06:18 die_meatbaby wrote:
First of all nice that sandroba started to play again, but your Comeback posts are not what makes me feel better about you.
I still believe it's you and mocstar together + maybe Vivax. First time that I am not a 100 % sure about vivax alignment.
##Unvote
##Vote: Sandroba I am quite certain Vivax is town and i think you are wrong. How does that go with you? I need more time to read vivax and also to read you On June 11 2024 07:19 die_meatbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 06:42 Trfel wrote:On June 11 2024 06:27 die_meatbaby wrote:On June 11 2024 06:21 Trfel wrote:I'm not going to argue with raynpelikoneet when he is likely mafia and is very obviously basing his arguments on nonsense. No matter how right I am, it's not reasonable to expect myself to be able to convince him that he is mafia. He's going to jump at this and demand explanations and I am going to ignore him Happy to discuss if we should lynch die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, or Koshi first. I'm quite torn about this, I hate to let any of them escape this. Explain me how I am wrong with sandroba and Mocstar? Explain me how sandroba is town?? If you believe that Mocstar is PR then why didn't mafia kill him? I don't have a super confident read on sandroba or anything but currently he is being voted by the people in the game I find most suspicious. This makes me very incentivized to keep him alive. He's been low activity/involvement, but that alone doesn't make him mafia imo. You said that he has townreads early, some people value their early townreads, it's a playstyle thing. I will note however that sandroba didn't say he was townreading AlphaZero, just that he liked the point that AlphaZero made. I will note however that the final post of these "townreads" was post #283. By this point, your townread rsoultin said she liked where Vivax's head was at, and that she liked AlphaZero. I don't consider three to be significantly more than two, especially since sandroba was posting at a later point in the game, where there was more that happened. Basically though what I am getting at is that early townreads aren't atypical at all. For example, when rsoultin came back she almost immediately said I looked good (post #343). I don't think Mocsta is a power role, or if he is, it's definitely not because of his post about jailkeeping Oatsmaster or whatever he said. I don't see any reasons that you have given for Mocsta to be mafia outside of associations with sandroba (who I don't really think is mafia) and him saying he is a power role (which I don't believe). If you have other reasons, please let me know. If you are town, I'm going to need some help to see it so we can lynch Koshi and/or raynpelikoneet here. Or heck, even someone else if there is good reason. Show nested quote +On June 10 2024 21:06 die_meatbaby wrote:rsoultin/koshiEither rsoultin or koshi have not given me reasons to see them as mafia. Koshi is really activ, trying to solve the game here. He has a lot of townreads but he plays still like a Townkoshi would. ScottOn June 07 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:I think scott31337 is probably the most suspicious person to ever play this game. He's just always mafia somehow, even when his role PM says he is town I think you are right also in older games from he looked scummy in his town games. TrflOn June 07 2024 20:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Trfel spending time and energy to fence sit seems townie to me, I don’t really like how rayn has approached today tbh the buddying trfel smells not good I thought the same thing kinda suspicious, but I think it was nothing. Trfls Filter wouldn´t make so much sense when he would be mafia. I could not see with who he would be togther in a team. For right now I see him as a Townie Sandrobahttps://tl.net/forum/mafia/625928-sweet-summer-mafia?user=sandrobathis is 2 page filter. he comes in the game starts with giving town reads on trfl, rayn, az, kelshier. far too early in the game to make so many reads.Then hitting a bit on scott and just going offline for ever. For me this filter is a red flag but maybe things change when he would start to play here again. IF I am corect with sandro mafia then guys look at this shit and you can call me paranoid but thats something now: Mocsta sandro making a few townreads on the people who were activ in the begining but not on mocsta he didn´t get a read On June 07 2024 23:21 sandroba wrote:
I actually like k3lsier too, 0 fucks given on mocsta interaction, seems very townie to me looks like it's such a safe read that it shouldn't be labeled as town right away so as not to stand out directly as teammates then the next posts felt to me like playing togther On June 08 2024 00:11 Mocsta wrote:On June 08 2024 00:06 sandroba wrote:
Basically if the initial question wasn't fake, definitely what rayn answered is not enough to address the question.
If it is fake you are either doing it to create discussion and you don't really care about it, or you are trying to blend in not create discussion.
If you intension is the former which could be a townie agenda, you wouldn't try to cut it short when you got the discussion going, which was what scott did. It makes more sense it was the latter which points to mafia agenda. yeah I get this now and accept it's the most likely options I was too focused on a third option which is too low odds (i.e. genuine role query) the sandro we never saw sandro again... what happend was Mocasta playing normal and calling out that he is jailkeeper and he will save oats n1 I would just love to understand why he didn't die on the first night. If someone blue called you kill them that night as mafia. Why are you still alive? What did Marv do to get himself killed and not the PR? Are you really blue???? Are you really fucking Town? Or are you playing with sandro? and why jail oats anyway? if you are town why are you saving oats. Why is he so Town to you. Why not Koshi, marv people who are strong town and often die early. Why oats? Or have I already found the team here? this hole thing fucks my head. Either you fuck with me or the mafia, because it doesn´t make sense to me! also in the same time i think VivaxI think I already explained enough why I think he mafia. But this read could change again. He is hell of paranoid but in RL right now not in the game, maybe this leads to a false read but when he is playing like this he is def. mafia in my eyes. Then I have the question again why is oats in this involved if my currents reads would be correct or is oats red and vivax green? I don´t thinks so oats looking more townisch then vivax. I am still unsure how read oats. AZ I don´t have a good feeling with him. Feels like he wann kinda lead Town somewhere, but not in a way that is too conspicuous. Still try to figure out if this is DP or Palmar. But I think it´s someone who I have played with already. No read on him right now Rayn In every fucking game we have played I have read him wrong. He was town i thought mafia and the other way around. I am still to fucking unsure what to think of him right now. In my head kinda scummy so lets say more townisch because I am always wrong with my read on him. Slam to less activ to make a read. It´s anyways always hard to read slam but when he only appears minutes before or after somebody died then I can really not read him AND YOU ALL CAN CALL ME FUCKING PARANOID FOR THIS SANDRO/ MOCSTAR SHIT BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SHIT GOING ON BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM I already explained here why they are together. I have a hard times to read rayn. Why do you think he is mafla? It's hard to say if there is anything there that justifies Koshi's read change. If Koshi's mindset/game view changed then this is more understandable, but I don't really think die_meatbaby's play alone can explain it.
In conclusion, I don't know. Does anyone have any ideas? To me, Koshi's read progressions on Vivax and die_meatbaby feel a bit fake and also convenient, however his read progression on raynpelikoneet comes across as significantly more genuine. It's hard for me to understand Koshi's approach but that doesn't make him mafia, that just makes him confusing. Koshi, or anyone else, any insight? I am the opposite of an analytical player. I basically forget what people posted 5 seconds after I read it except for a few posts that linger. I more gouge what is happening and how it makes me feel. Gotcha. So basically you're like Alakaslam without the chupazi and the hijole 
Out of curiosity, what's it like reading your previous posts? For example, you're 85% confident die_meatbaby is mafia and are maybe willing to lynch her, does it make you reconsider when you read the reasons you were townreading her?
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On June 11 2024 17:58 Trfel wrote:
The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually. dude.. I'm crying here
Are you serious about following koshi and rayn, your scum reads on sandroba.
This town can't give.yoj the external validation you are craving.
Can you at least stay on rayn till we get more feedback from rest of town.. it's coming.. patience. A little bit more
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On June 11 2024 18:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:56 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:42 AlphaZero wrote:On June 11 2024 17:28 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:25 Mocsta wrote:On June 11 2024 17:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 11 2024 17:17 Koshi wrote:
But the talk was good. It felt like 5 townies. Did you feel deceit? There is no need for any deceit. There is only need for not to vote for sandroba. Mocsta didn't do shit all, and when people started talking about lynching me he just rolled with it. AZ became dumb after being smart on D1. Trfel and Vivax are town. Idk what Vivax actually is doing and Trfel is just too tunneled to objectively look at any argument at all in the game, so he is lost cause. So you're arguing there was 4-5mafia? I dunno who the 5th is that koshi talks of are you fucking stupid? let's go with yes as I'm reading what you're writing Koshi asked a yes/no question and I saw waffles Stupid, mofo waffles Tbh that was bad mocsta. well rayn was asked 2 things. 1 direct. 1 indirect Rayn answered neither Direct. "Was their deceit" = there was no need for deceit i.e. reframed scummy by dodging the questionIndirect. "But the talk was good.it felt like 5 townies" = mocsta shit. Az dumb. Trfel lost cause. Vivax lose causw
I.e. gives 2 of 5 a town read with a caveat... Again scummy reframe.Now.. the counter argument is that rayn is defensive due to votes. Yet... This is both overly antagonist (per my comments above) and bear in mind, as a town!rayn, koshi has mostly been an advocate for rayn and asked very politely. Even oats for all his abrasiveness and bravado does not ignore and reframe in this way. This for me is a very clear approach that only comes from.mafia mindset. mafia post yeah the one I quoted 
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On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Hey raynpelikoneet, can we talk about this for a little? I don't want to upset you and once again I am sorry that I did so, but if you are town I would very much like to understand where you are coming from.
Specifically the third paragraph, would you be able to explain where that is coming from?
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On June 11 2024 18:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:58 Trfel wrote:
The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually. dude.. I'm crying here Are you serious about following koshi and rayn, your scum reads on sandroba. This town can't give.yoj the external validation you are craving. Can you at least stay on rayn till we get more feedback from rest of town.. it's coming.. patience. A little bit more I know, I'm insane.
But I actually think this is the place to be. You could even join me!
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On June 11 2024 18:03 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 17:58 Trfel wrote:
The thing is, I'm not sold on sandroba being town.
I don't get much of an impression either way from his posts. But there is a distinct lack of them.
I'm...... going to vote for sandroba actually. dude.. I'm crying here Are you serious about following koshi and rayn, your scum reads on sandroba. This town can't give.yoj the external validation you are craving. Can you at least stay on rayn till we get more feedback from rest of town.. it's coming.. patience. A little bit more Like, I get it. I'm worried about some people on the wagon being mafia. But what if I am wrong?
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What‘s a chupazi sounds like a lollipop designed in the third reich
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On June 11 2024 18:03 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2024 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Sandrobas reads do not track. He just took the town consensus scumreads and put them in a list.
That in itself isnt wrong, but he has just talked anout how oats can be scum if rsoultin is scum, then rsoultin (koshi) is scum, but oats is not on the list.
Also case on rsoul being mafia is basically "i cant find reasons for her to be mafia"????? Hey raynpelikoneet, can we talk about this for a little? I don't want to upset you and once again I am sorry that I did so, but if you are town I would very much like to understand where you are coming from. Specifically the third paragraph, would you be able to explain where that is coming from?
Here are the things sandroba said on rsoultin during D1:
On June 08 2024 03:39 sandroba wrote:
The game I most remember with rsoul she was mafia and antagonized and accused me the whole game. I remember it because it caused me to waffle on her and lose the game. Can anyone corroborate this rsoul meta rayn is pointing out?
On June 08 2024 06:01 sandroba wrote:
Rayn on rsoul: I had similar thoughts to her from reading the initial pages and had a town lean. Her random call out on me seems contrived because she herself does not comment on anything else besides accusing me of lack of commentary. If she really believes I missed something important or more telling than the stuff on scott I would expect she would have commented on that when re-entering the thread. She is in the null pile
Now after that Koshi enter the game in place of rsoultin, and sandroba's take on that D2 is:
On June 11 2024 00:21 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. Okay this actually makes me feel a lot better, since I think rsoul is to me much harder to pin down as mafia than Koshi. For Koshi if he is this bad he is mafia and this view makes him mafia 100%. There is absolutely no way Koshi comes in with fresh eyes, reads the same thread as me and comes to this conclusion.
I understand if sandroba thinks Koshi is mafia.
Why does he have to justify it with something rsoultin did?
Similar to the Oats thing in his catch up, that's all out of place, this doesn't make any sense.
If sandroba thinks Koshi is mafia, why write anything about rsoultin, if he thought rsoultin is null?
It's like, "because i think this person does now look scummy, suddenly their other posts that are null became scummy as well". If you get what i mean?
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On June 11 2024 16:33 Koshi wrote:
Sandroba/DMB/+1
Can we all agree on this? Before we look for the third?
I might come around.
I just really dislike having sandro as mafia early because he‘s n1 or n2 kill material.
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EPT
