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also chez and FF do you both hardclaim mad hatter?
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On March 11 2019 05:18 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:15 Pandain wrote:
@rels what do you think about my point about ace wanting hf vigi'd. I think he would have been very happy if a vig shot was wasted on HF instead of hitting a lynchbait like Damdred or another scum like BC. Him calling for a vig doesn't change my points about him
HF seemed like much stronger lynch bait than someone like Damdred. Going into D2 HF was public enemy number one for a lot of people. N2, scum killed a couple of the people defending HF who had stronger town reads on them. For scum that could have been a setup to try to push the HF lynch again on D3. I don't think it would have been hard for them to push the WIFOM perspective to the people who started to call HF town because of the flips. Pandain came in with their shot before anyone did that though.
If Pandain hadn't shot HF, this would have probably turned into another HF vs counter-lynch day. Given this, it sounded like Ace was off the lynch HF train into D3 (though based on the theoretical existence of a cop?), so I think that gives him some more town cred. I would have expected a scum Ace to continue the HF tunnel and argue the WIFOM thing. Scum Ace doesn't come in and say he thinks HF got checked town by a cop before going back to continue a HF tunnel.
Overall, I think scum were trying to set up another lynch HF day and Pandain screwed it up. Ace had come off the lynch HF wagon before the shot, so that looks good for him.
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On March 11 2019 05:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
We have also take some time to analyse the recent motion put forward by Liquidia Town Council to execute a warrant for Ace's arrest and subsequent execution. Based on Ace's behaviour, we do not find him particularly likely to be scum. Ace's posts show that he is indeed analysing the game with the goal of solving it. This host feels that Ace is taking a lot of flak for the culture clash he induces by playing within the new Liquidia meta.
Ace plays some stuff according to a different style but then is using this to inform his reads. A perfect example of this is BC, where BC plays according to what Ace considers good town play, and so becomes a town read. The problem with this is that most of the rest of the thread spurns this type of play and so it probably throws off Ace's reads and then that portion of the town thinks he's scum because it doesn't jive with their own notions of what constitutes town play. I was around for the sort of transitional period where the game here changed from the old 2010 style to the newer more conversational/emotional/meta heavy style. As such, I can see where both sides of the players are coming from, and can also see that it's causing scum reads because of clashes in expected play.
I disagree Ace posts showing he's "indeed analysing the game with the goal of solving it". If you discard everything related to HF in his filter, there is almost nothing. And I've shown why I think the parts related to HF are scummy.
For example, he has said today that his 2 current scumreads are Jock and Wiggles:
On March 09 2019 15:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 15:39 Rels wrote:On March 09 2019 15:34 Ace wrote:
It's pretty obvious I reversed my read on HF with BC flip. And we never pushed a case on HF together. Although I thought BC was Town we weren't tag teaming HF. Nice narrative tho 😁 happy you like it  just for the record, I don't think you 2 pushing HF makes you partners, what I think is your play thus far has followed a clearcut plan, indicative of scum talk to me about who you think is scum now? Gonna filter Meapeak next, I remember hating something about him during EON2 I have Jock + Wiggles as my top 2 suspects. As for your idea of a plan - of course there was. I posted what I was doing on Day 1 😁. Should also check my post a few hours before EoD 2. Once today came with no guilty investigation on HF I was thinking he's probably innocent. BCs flip just made it a much stronger stance. I was wrong on their alignments Day 2 and I thought it was clear I wasn't going after HF at all anymore. I even said I may have been tunneling him and looking for confirmation bias in his posts.
But when we look for why he scumread them, there isn't much:
On March 08 2019 07:47 Ace wrote:
Jock is an obvious vigi shot. Good post though. Figuring out who's posting under an alias in the Scum QT is excellent detective work.
On March 09 2019 00:26 Ace wrote:
Lol @ Jock's post. Having a short filter, not throwing around a lot of accusations, and....asking a question but not answering it (umm...duh?) makes me scum.
I really do not believe any vigi reading that post would let you live. Its just random shit thrown at a wall to look active 😁
On March 09 2019 17:01 Ace wrote:
My reason for Wiggles was the little chat we had about BC. It was like he believed BC was scum and then disappeared. Difficult to tell because he could have legit been afk.
So no, I don't feel like this kind of reads show that he's trying to solve the game.
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On March 11 2019 05:23 Mr. Wiggles wrote:New listener Rels calls in with this compliment and question: Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:11 Rels wrote:I love the radio show So the case against TS isbasically inactivity and hyprocrisy? Town can also do those 2 things so I don't find that very strong We believe this is a mischaracterisation of the case. If we had to put it in bullet points, it would be the following: - Not interested in solving the game.
- Does not willingly put forward reads several days into the game. Low read information available means no accountability or link analysis possible.
- Lack of commitment to offered opinions. Everything is hedged to be able to back off if required.
- Responds to pressure with a 'no you!' defence that doesn't make sense from a town perspective.
thanks, that looks better. I'll read his filter and see if I agree
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On March 05 2019 01:16 kitaman27 wrote:
Day One Vote Count
Mayor
Holyflare (10): Tubesock, Alakaslam, Holyflare, rsoultin, Ace, Mr. Wiggles, BloodyC0bbler, Jockmcplop, Mocsta, [UoN]Sentinel
Palmar (8): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion
Here are the votes from when the holyflare-palmar mayor was closest. At this point, it was known that HF wanted to lynch Palmar. I went through everyone's filter on holyflare's wagon, and was looking specifically for someone who voted for HF but then later criticized and wanted to lynch him for doing exactly what he said he would do.
Of these, Alakaslam, Ace, Sentinel, all are guilty of this. This is highly highly suspicious, contradictory, and makes perfect sense from a mafia perspective. I think we should be lynching out of these three.
I'm giving Ace a pass for the moment because he heavily argued for HF to be vigi'd during both nights, and otherwise is posting pretty townie (even if infrequent).
I would put heavy bets on Alakaslam and Sentinel both being mafia.
Furthermore, Sentinel is particuarly guilty of:
1. Being pretty active day 1 but never commenting on if he thought Palmar is scum or not. Considering that he is voting for HF, that he himself had different scum reads but never tried to convince HF, this is a huge red flag.
2. On March 07 2019 11:29 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I think at this point lynching HF would be more beneficial to town based on at least D1/early N1 actions. I haven't been around for a lot of the last two days but it seems HF was outright malicious whereas BH has kinda been playing dumb. So I'm voting HF.
##Vote: Holyflare
Sentinel calls HF "outright malicious", when he himself voted for him and never tried to change his view. Huge cognitive dissonance.
3. Had a huge town read on Ace last night and then comes in, votes Ace, and leaves immediately. After getting called out he says he will "explain later." Any townie would at least write something about why they did a complete 180; from my perspective he messed up with his fake viewpoints and didn't know how to justify.
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On March 11 2019 05:18 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:15 Pandain wrote:
@rels what do you think about my point about ace wanting hf vigi'd. I think he would have been very happy if a vig shot was wasted on HF instead of hitting a lynchbait like Damdred or another scum like BC. Him calling for a vig doesn't change my points about him
If this is your argument, I get it. But I think Sentinel is just as guilty as this and has other scumslips.
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On March 11 2019 05:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:18 Rels wrote:On March 11 2019 05:15 Pandain wrote:
@rels what do you think about my point about ace wanting hf vigi'd. I think he would have been very happy if a vig shot was wasted on HF instead of hitting a lynchbait like Damdred or another scum like BC. Him calling for a vig doesn't change my points about him HF seemed like much stronger lynch bait than someone like Damdred. Going into D2 HF was public enemy number one for a lot of people. N2, scum killed a couple of the people defending HF who had stronger town reads on them. For scum that could have been a setup to try to push the HF lynch again on D3. I don't think it would have been hard for them to push the WIFOM perspective to the people who started to call HF town because of the flips. Pandain came in with their shot before anyone did that though. If Pandain hadn't shot HF, this would have probably turned into another HF vs counter-lynch day. Given this, it sounded like Ace was off the lynch HF train into D3 (though based on the theoretical existence of a cop?), so I think that gives him some more town cred. I would have expected a scum Ace to continue the HF tunnel and argue the WIFOM thing. Scum Ace doesn't come in and say he thinks HF got checked town by a cop before going back to continue a HF tunnel. Overall, I think scum were trying to set up another lynch HF day and Pandain screwed it up. Ace had come off the lynch HF wagon before the shot, so that looks good for him.
I agree with you about the intention of scums being trying to get HF vs the world going again in D3 if HF was not vigd. I disagree that it would have worked even without Pandain shotting HF, 'cause BC flipping made it too obvious; but I agree it was their plan.
I disagree about Ace calling for a vig shot on HF makes him town. He vig shoots HF, great, a vig has shot one of the best town in the game! If not, proceed to push HF as happened.
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On March 11 2019 05:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:18 Rels wrote:On March 11 2019 05:15 Pandain wrote:
@rels what do you think about my point about ace wanting hf vigi'd. I think he would have been very happy if a vig shot was wasted on HF instead of hitting a lynchbait like Damdred or another scum like BC. Him calling for a vig doesn't change my points about him If this is your argument, I get it. But I think Sentinel is just as guilty as this and has other scumslips.
this is just a counter argument to "Ace calling a vig shot on HF makes Ace town", I don't think it makes Ace town or scum. Why I think Ace is scum is:
On March 09 2019 15:27 Rels wrote:yeah I don't like Ace's filter. I'm happy he started playing for real though it will be an honor to lynch mafia god in the last TL game! The thing that shows he's scum is how he treated HF all game. Everything reeks of a mafia plan getting HF elected, then getting him lynched. We can follow it all thorough the day: First part during EOD1, voting him while not even knowing who he would lynch: Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 05:01 Ace wrote:
@holyflare: just voted you for Mayor. I haven't fully caught up but I've been skim reading. Assuming you win the election your plan is what again? Just restate for clarity so I'm not confused or in case I missed any new developments. Second part during N1, he acts surprised that HF has lynched Palmar and begins pushing him: Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 10:21 Ace wrote:
Well that was terrible.
@Trfel: Really wish you claimed :'(. GG tho dude/dudette.
There are no mafia doctors so vigis can shoot Holyflare at will. If he somehow does not die tonight he is an auto-lynch tomorrow.
Earlier in the thread when I was talking to HF and Wiggles, I was alluding to the fact that Hf or Palmar have to stick to their plan on the lynch (Sentinel). It would take a very convincing reason to lynch someone else. For all his talk, Palmar never came across as a strong scum read. HF lynching him instead of Sentinel or even BH means he has to die. He did not stick to his guns and did not have good reason to lynch Palmar.
side note:Would have been funny (and rage inducing) if Trfel flipped Cop and Palmar flipped back up Cop.
Anyway, we kill HF asap. No fucking around.
Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 10:28 Ace wrote:On March 05 2019 10:24 Damdred wrote:On March 05 2019 10:21 Ace wrote:
Well that was terrible.
@Trfel: Really wish you claimed :'(. GG tho dude/dudette.
There are no mafia doctors so vigis can shoot Holyflare at will. If he somehow does not die tonight he is an auto-lynch tomorrow.
Earlier in the thread when I was talking to HF and Wiggles, I was alluding to the fact that Hf or Palmar have to stick to their plan on the lynch (Sentinel). It would take a very convincing reason to lynch someone else. For all his talk, Palmar never came across as a strong scum read. HF lynching him instead of Sentinel or even BH means he has to die. He did not stick to his guns and did not have good reason to lynch Palmar.
side note:Would have been funny (and rage inducing) if Trfel flipped Cop and Palmar flipped back up Cop.
Anyway, we kill HF asap. No fucking around.
What is this? Even I know hf stuck to his guns he wan ted to lynch palm for a long time no? Him wanting to lynch Palmar =/= good reason to switch. Third, he AFKs the start of D2. His first post when he comes back D2 is a big post on HF. Note that it's a time where HF is in the lead 9 - 4 over BH, but talks about alternative targets start being discussed for real => see the pages before page 239, BH being ofc the main other lynch. I don't know if it's really this or just a coincidence, but it sures comes at a convenient time so that HF keeps being the lynch. Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 12:06 Ace wrote:Holyflare is Scum https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27283802 <---bullshit filter dive in fact, there are just too many posts that show he isn't scum hunting. It's either a lax attempt to show what someone else did wrong, asking "what should we do now?" type questions, or just filler. Outside of this, he killed Palmar. The entire reason behind my Day 1 post was to tie any mayor candidate to their lynch choice. It's not just that he didn't lynch Sentinel - if he had justifiable reasons then so be it. But he lynched Palmar and his reasoning rests on because he thought he was scum. Seriously. This guy should be the obvious lynch. How many people really thought Palmar was scum? He just did it because he could.And even if you somehow don't believe he's Scum he is clearly a net negative for the Town. He literally has done nothing - and this is coming from a guy who's been afk, caught up on only 30 pages or so and sees the nonsense plain as day. The nightkills - 3 dead. All Town. I refuse, literally refuse to think a vigilante shot any of them over Holyfield. Like it seems unfathomable that the targets would end up at Marv, Iamp, or Koshi (lol wut?). Especially with one being Vet and dying (maybe Rb + shot). If there's a third party out there, I think it goes without saying you should start shooting scum or clashing flips from now on Lastly, I saw something about marv playing cop wrong. I actually think he made himself "obvious town" or whatever you want to call it and should have drawn night protection. Especially since he was a replacement with fresh eyes into the game. Maybe we have no more docs or the kill went through somehow. Either way I think it's worth backtracking him and iamps posts (-2 nightlife means very desperate kill) especially. Then he goes on for all day, mainly talking about lynching HF. Note that he's now OK with BC, pushing HF together and referencing him in his posts. I'll elaborate about that in another part of the post - I don't think BC/Ace relationship necessarily show that they're partners, but it sure as hell don't prove they're cannot be partners. Finally, today. Mafia probably shot rayn, rsoul and WOS. Let's say they definitely shot at least 2 out of 3 to account for weird stuff like SK or whatever. They shot people that hard townread HF. At this point, Ace's narrative change - in his last big post during N3, Ace says that HF "definitely needs to be lynched whatever his alignment is". Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 04:45 Ace wrote:
Anyone who is saying they think Holyflare is scum but won't lynch him because it's going to be too difficult and should be saved for LYLO is pretty much not worth keeping around. Cops and vigis should get their utmost attention. For whatever reasons that Holyflare will be alive Day 3, this support block needs to be eradicated. At this point I literally do not care that HF can possibly flip Town - he is detrimental to our win condition. Of course I find him funny so I would like to keep him around but I also want to win.
I think their plan was to continue pushing HF during D3 with BC. BUT BC DIES. So there goes that plan. Ace stops pushing for HF after that, and his reasonning is weird: Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 09:03 Ace wrote:Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo BC  Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 09:08 Ace wrote:On March 09 2019 09:06 Holyflare wrote:
Oh hey look absolutely everyone that would be defending me died and the one guy that yelled about lynching me for dumb reasons was mafia. That's cool. Some of his reasons were good. He just happened to be your scum buddy :'( Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 09:28 Ace wrote:
Wow. Ah well. All that fun trying to lynch HF is now down the drain. Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 11:52 Ace wrote:On March 09 2019 11:37 LightningStrike wrote:On March 09 2019 11:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 09 2019 11:24 LightningStrike wrote:Day One Final Vote Count
Mayor
Holyflare (16): Tubesock, Holyflare, rsoultin, Ace, Mr. Wiggles, Jockmcplop, Mocsta, [UoN]Sentinel, Pandain, sicklucker, raynpelikoneet, Fecalfeast, iamperfection, Damdred, ExO_, Trfel
Palmar (12): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, LightningStrike, Vivax, BloodyC0bbler, Acrofales, Blazinghand
iamperfection (4): darthfoley, Tumblewood, Koshi, Oatsmaster
Chezinu (1):Chezinu
Onegu (1): Onegu
rsoultin (1): Rels
Lynch
Trfel (11): Tubesock, sicklucker, [UoN]Sentinel, Koshi, Mr. Wiggles, Tumblewood, Fecalfeast, Jockmcplop, Acrofales, Vivax, Conversion
Blazinghand (10): Holyflare, Grackaroni, iamperfection, Oatsmaster, WaveOfShadow, raynpelikoneet, Trfel, rsoultin, ExO_, LightningStrike
Conversion (3): Mocsta, Alakaslam, darthfoley
Acrofales (2): Damdred, Tictock
iamperfection (2): BloodyC0bbler, Blazinghand
Koshi (1): Ace
Fecalfeast (1): Pandain
Grackaroni (1): Meapak_Ziphh
LightningStrike (1): Rels
[UoN]Sentinel (1): Chezinu
rsoultin (1): Onegu
Mr. Wiggles (1): Palmar EoD1 votes with conrfirmed flips and claims so ya BC wasted his vote on a throwaway on iamp and town was scattered all over the place on the two lynch wagons Day 1. Ace,Pandain,MZ, Chezinu, and Onegu wasted their votes Day 1. might have a scum within those throw away votes since town was so scattered it's a safe play to do that. Both wagons were town. I don't think just from the votes you can make any inference about where the scum are. Scum know who HF is. If he's one of them it doesn't really matter who the mayor is between him and Palmar to scum because a townie gets lynched either way. If he's town it doesn't matter either but scum would have to take him at his word that he wants to lynch Palmar. Even if he did follow through on the BH lynch that's also a townie. Throwaway votes is usually scum indicating though in a TvT wagon though but I think scum is also within those 2 wagons since it's easy to blend in when it's TvT. Ya fair play about HF I wish we had a cop check on him >.< I'm thinking a cop has investigated HF by now and hasn't gotten a scum result so feels no need to claim. this last post makes no sense for 2 reasons. First, until just now HF has been a man that was probably gonna be vigd or lynched. Cops probably wouldn't bother with HF until now. Second, we already have a cop and a backup cop flipped, and 2 vigs. I don't know if it's reasonnable to suppose we have a lot more investigative role. The answer is that Ace stopped pushing HF because his helping buddy BC died, and because almost nobody else wants HF dead now. But he had to invent a reason to stop that push, and he crafted this one. Problem is that, it makes no sense 'cause it's fake.
A final point. Sent bought up the point that Ace / BC relationship make them unlikely partners. I disagree, I don't think it proves they're partners either, but nothing proves they aren't. It's true Ace attacked BC with during EOD1: Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 08:49 Ace wrote:On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. This post reeks. Why would you pop up near EOD to post this? You even segregated players and faked outrage. Heavy FoS here. That turns into a kinda townread during D2: Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 12:57 Ace wrote:On March 06 2019 10:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:BC is a scummers. This post before deadline reeks: + Show Spoiler +On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. He gets to come in, yell at town, and then set himself up to look vindicated if Palmar dies. No comments on any of the active wagons of which we know two (trfel, conv) were town, and says he disagrees with some of Palmar's reads without going into specifics. Very easy way to posture for 'town points' without needing to commit to anything. Besides that he's jumped on a couple other points but hasn't accomplished any real scum hunting in thread. Wiggles, not sure of the timing of the vote nor do I really disagree with this post. But I just checked the voting thread quickly and see BC has a vote on HF. Unless he finds reason to move, do you think BC + HF is a possible scum team? I also called BC scummy for the post near last EOD but outside of this do you sense scum motive from him? Show nested quote +On March 07 2019 13:16 Ace wrote:On March 06 2019 11:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 06 2019 11:31 Mocsta wrote:On March 06 2019 11:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 06 2019 11:20 Grackaroni wrote:On March 06 2019 10:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:BC is a scummers. This post before deadline reeks:+ Show Spoiler +On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. He gets to come in, yell at town, and then set himself up to look vindicated if Palmar dies. No comments on any of the active wagons of which we know two (trfel, conv) were town, and says he disagrees with some of Palmar's reads without going into specifics. Very easy way to posture for 'town points' without needing to commit to anything. Besides that he's jumped on a couple other points but hasn't accomplished any real scum hunting in thread. This is plaigarism lol. Exact same word choice as Ace. On March 05 2019 08:49 Ace wrote:On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. This post reeks. Why would you pop up near EOD to post this? You even segregated players and faked outrage. Heavy FoS here. HAHAHA HOLY SHIT. Grack are you actually town? what do you think about ace though in that chained quote? I dont beleive he ever did ANYTHING with that. He didn't but it's funny how he said this: On March 05 2019 08:58 Ace wrote:
@BC: where did I say I want Palmar killed???
@trfel: I think you should seriously claim if lynch noise bout to drop. And then voted for HF lmao Yea :/. Was having this exchange with BC because I definitely did not see HF doing what he did. I actually thought Palmar had way too much sway for that move not to be met with instagib and also he didn't appear as scum to enough people for it to even be approachable. BC took my HF vote as a Palmar supported kill because he obviously believed the threat and was correct in the end. And a real townread during N2: Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 00:18 Ace wrote:On March 08 2019 13:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey Ace, you asked me about BC but then never followed up. I'm curious about your own thoughts towards him. How are you reading BC? I'm still convinced he's scum. On March 07 2019 13:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote:We're opening up the lines, and we've already got our first caller! On March 07 2019 12:57 Ace wrote:On March 06 2019 10:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:BC is a scummers. This post before deadline reeks: + Show Spoiler +On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. He gets to come in, yell at town, and then set himself up to look vindicated if Palmar dies. No comments on any of the active wagons of which we know two (trfel, conv) were town, and says he disagrees with some of Palmar's reads without going into specifics. Very easy way to posture for 'town points' without needing to commit to anything. Besides that he's jumped on a couple other points but hasn't accomplished any real scum hunting in thread. Wiggles, not sure of the timing of the vote nor do I really disagree with this post. But I just checked the voting thread quickly and see BC has a vote on HF. Unless he finds reason to move, do you think BC + HF is a possible scum team? I also called BC scummy for the post near last EOD but outside of this do you sense scum motive from him? Hmm, could BC + HF be a possible scum team? I guess it's possible. I've had a town read on HF, but if that's wrong and he were to flip red, I don't think that clears BC. A bus of HF today would be pretty easy to support for scum, considering all the people lusting after his blood coming out of N1. I find BC to be a relative non-entity in this game who comes in long enough to throw around some accusations and act holier-than-thou before going to ground again. I think the exchange with Jock is a decent example of this. When Jock comes in with a weird post about HF, BC jumps on it but ends up mostly just berating Jock. BC's points don't do much to advance the case on HF itself but do allow him to blow up on what Jock is attributing as motivation to HF. Before BC came in there's been other people town reading HF, but BC doesn't try to address any of those points, instead he just hops on Jock's bad point because it's easy. For example, I'd contrast his play with yours right now. You're coming back into the thread after some time away, but you're adding comments about stuff you've read along the way. This is helpful and advances the thread. BC on the other hand comes in, plops down a post and then interacts with a couple people present in the thread (usually in a confrontational/negative way) before leaving again. It's obvious he's read the thread because he's putting forward a couple cases, but out of everything else that happens he seems to have basically no comment. It's the same old song and dance from BC today as well. We have him come in and rage about the decision to out the mason: + Show Spoiler [SanguinePie] +On March 08 2019 06:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:What the fuck is going on in this game? I leave for a bit and the thread turns to a shit show -_- How the fuck has more or less the entire thread glossed over the fact we had Rsoultin out Rel's role because she thought he was mafia then proceeded to not seriously push him as a candidate whatsoever Then proceeded to remain voting for someone she doesn't fully believe is fucking scum. Seriously wtf is wrong with you guys. We have already had a bunch of blues flip and no one questions seriously why its ok for someone to out another players role on a gut read? IMO there is literally no reason to out rels at this point in time unless you plan to go ham on a scum read. Show nested quote +On March 08 2019 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:On March 08 2019 05:54 sicklucker wrote:
Well if we dont kill hf now hes never dying. So ill just have to asume hes town if thats happening and pray mafia nk him and reevaluate if I dont kill. I dont think we have the votes to kill him today is what im trying to say. so lets set up a side wagon to bh. But fuck I dont have enough time We only need like 3 votes on HF. please vote him and stay on him. Don't say "let's just assume he's town for no reason because he's too good at convincing people to ever be able for us to lynch him" wtf Jesus fuck. Again, this is a really easy thing to pick on as scum because it's just yelling about mechanics and 'standard play'. A bunch of stuff people seem to do now looks weird compared to how we did things in the days of yore, but it's easy even for an old dog like me to see that it's simply a different kind of meta. For BC to react like this says that he either doesn't understand that, which I doubt, or that he's simply fishing for something to comment about without needing to fake scum hunting. The other posts he makes are just more useless arguing with HF. Browbeating HF does little to advance town, even if you're convinced he's scum. It would be way more productive to either push reasons to not lynch BH or try to dismantle the defence/rationale that other posters have put forward to not lynch HF. Instead he rolls around in the mud with HF for a while before popping out of the thread. Same old stuff he's been doing for the last couple cycles. BC is a pretty solid lynch for Day 3, I'd say. We are not lynching BC @Mocsta: you are a weird player. So all over the place 😏 Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 04:45 Ace wrote:
I've already said 2 of these people are scum. This is the BH wagon. Now we obviously know some townies are lazy or were duped into thinking this was even a good idea. I doubt anyone seriously reading this game would think BH was ever a real suspect. Myself and others echoed this during Day 2. On Day 1 I prodded BH to stay in the game not only because I have good memories of him in past games and iirc modding, but I know scum would just pile on the easy mislynch and misguided townies would follow.
I would expect BC to pick up on this because he's a very good player and of course he did. Doesn't mean he isn't scum but someone caring about the nature of the lynch is probably Town. Of course I've currently got a Town read on Vivax too. Fuck me if either of them are Scum 🤦🏼♂️.
So no, I don't think their interactions are alignment indicative by themselves, and I think them trying to push a HF lynch / vig during the whole N1 / D2 / N2 makes a lot of sense.
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Wow a guy goes afk for a day and there's a lynch train
Rels, you're reading me way off. Iirc your first point of contention with me had to do with HF. I clearly admitted I read him wrong before he died.
I also think you should be thinking about the motives behind those NKs. I had no serious heat on me from Rayn/Wos/Rsoul/ (the 3 non vigi shots). Even if they were HFs defenders as scum I would still need to convince people to lynch him next day. I did not. Once I saw the BC flip I instantly townread HF.
In fact I think if anyone looks bad for those nightkills, it's you. You had QT interaction with 2 of them did you not?
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I love your points on Ace Slam and Sentinel voting HF then attacking him when he lynched who he said he would. If it's as true as you're saying it's a quite damning point against those 3.
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On March 11 2019 05:51 Ace wrote:Wow a guy goes afk for a day and there's a lynch train Rels, you're reading me way off. Iirc your first point of contention with me had to do with HF. I clearly admitted I read him wrong before he died. I also think you should be thinking about the motives behind those NKs. I had no serious heat on me from Rayn/Wos/Rsoul/ (the 3 non vigi shots). Even if they were HFs defenders as scum I would still need to convince people to lynch him next day. I did not. Once I saw the BC flip I instantly townread HF.
Yeah that's actually my point if BC didn't flip you would have continued pushing HF, and the 3 best HF defenders would have been dead this time.
On March 11 2019 05:51 Ace wrote:In fact I think if anyone looks bad for those nightkills, it's you. You had QT interaction with 2 of them did you not?
Only one of them
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lol TS having 4 pages of filter when I can't remember a single thing he's done p:
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Canada11355 Posts
On March 11 2019 05:33 Tumblewood wrote:
also chez and FF do you both hardclaim mad hatter?
lol
On March 10 2019 10:55 Fecalfeast wrote:
I am a mad matter
On March 10 2019 10:55 Fecalfeast wrote:
yes
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On March 11 2019 04:17 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm sorry guys, my 3 hour airdrop sortie is dragging into its 5th hour with at least two more lifts to accomplish. I'm going to vote Wiggles. I encourage you all to join me in lynching scum.
why vote off wagon? it lets mafia control the majority
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On March 11 2019 04:22 Grackaroni wrote:
I think town loses if Ace is the lynch today.
I read through his filter and didn't find it very townie but that's my read on the game.
I think im going to completely base my vote on whos voting for who. THe chance of a town vs town seems slim
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On March 11 2019 05:30 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 04:22 Grackaroni wrote:
I think town loses if Ace is the lynch today.
I read through his filter and didn't find it very townie but that's my read on the game. this seems contradictory, pls explain
What I meant was that I didn't think this was going to be a scum lynch judging by the state of the thread and my reads. I didn't find anything really lynchworthy in Ace's filter but nothing really townie either.
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On March 11 2019 05:06 darthfoley wrote:
Okay Im on 314 and just saw Pandain shoot HF, basically obvious scum vig claim and we lynch right?
ah not yet
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On March 11 2019 05:08 Pandain wrote:
I guarantee if I was scum shooting HF would be the last thing I do. That man was literally lynch bait on fire.
no scum wanted him dead . your definitely suspect. nk's made him town if you thought about ti logically like many of us did. If you had read the thread you would have realized everyone who was scum reading him including me suddenly town read him. but you decided to shoot him very scummy. very anti town.
I decided not to kill you tho and I honestly cant remember why. Oh ya day vig for mafia is less likely then town day vig. your safe bub
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nks suggested they wanted hf dead. but when the scummer flipped who was pushing him it was obvious
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On March 11 2019 05:50 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2019 05:48 Pandain wrote:On March 11 2019 05:18 Rels wrote:On March 11 2019 05:15 Pandain wrote:
@rels what do you think about my point about ace wanting hf vigi'd. I think he would have been very happy if a vig shot was wasted on HF instead of hitting a lynchbait like Damdred or another scum like BC. Him calling for a vig doesn't change my points about him If this is your argument, I get it. But I think Sentinel is just as guilty as this and has other scumslips. this is just a counter argument to "Ace calling a vig shot on HF makes Ace town", I don't think it makes Ace town or scum. Why I think Ace is scum is: Show nested quote +On March 09 2019 15:27 Rels wrote:yeah I don't like Ace's filter. I'm happy he started playing for real though it will be an honor to lynch mafia god in the last TL game! The thing that shows he's scum is how he treated HF all game. Everything reeks of a mafia plan getting HF elected, then getting him lynched. We can follow it all thorough the day: First part during EOD1, voting him while not even knowing who he would lynch: On March 05 2019 05:01 Ace wrote:
@holyflare: just voted you for Mayor. I haven't fully caught up but I've been skim reading. Assuming you win the election your plan is what again? Just restate for clarity so I'm not confused or in case I missed any new developments. Second part during N1, he acts surprised that HF has lynched Palmar and begins pushing him: On March 05 2019 10:21 Ace wrote:
Well that was terrible.
@Trfel: Really wish you claimed :'(. GG tho dude/dudette.
There are no mafia doctors so vigis can shoot Holyflare at will. If he somehow does not die tonight he is an auto-lynch tomorrow.
Earlier in the thread when I was talking to HF and Wiggles, I was alluding to the fact that Hf or Palmar have to stick to their plan on the lynch (Sentinel). It would take a very convincing reason to lynch someone else. For all his talk, Palmar never came across as a strong scum read. HF lynching him instead of Sentinel or even BH means he has to die. He did not stick to his guns and did not have good reason to lynch Palmar.
side note:Would have been funny (and rage inducing) if Trfel flipped Cop and Palmar flipped back up Cop.
Anyway, we kill HF asap. No fucking around.
On March 05 2019 10:28 Ace wrote:On March 05 2019 10:24 Damdred wrote:On March 05 2019 10:21 Ace wrote:
Well that was terrible.
@Trfel: Really wish you claimed :'(. GG tho dude/dudette.
There are no mafia doctors so vigis can shoot Holyflare at will. If he somehow does not die tonight he is an auto-lynch tomorrow.
Earlier in the thread when I was talking to HF and Wiggles, I was alluding to the fact that Hf or Palmar have to stick to their plan on the lynch (Sentinel). It would take a very convincing reason to lynch someone else. For all his talk, Palmar never came across as a strong scum read. HF lynching him instead of Sentinel or even BH means he has to die. He did not stick to his guns and did not have good reason to lynch Palmar.
side note:Would have been funny (and rage inducing) if Trfel flipped Cop and Palmar flipped back up Cop.
Anyway, we kill HF asap. No fucking around.
What is this? Even I know hf stuck to his guns he wan ted to lynch palm for a long time no? Him wanting to lynch Palmar =/= good reason to switch. Third, he AFKs the start of D2. His first post when he comes back D2 is a big post on HF. Note that it's a time where HF is in the lead 9 - 4 over BH, but talks about alternative targets start being discussed for real => see the pages before page 239, BH being ofc the main other lynch. I don't know if it's really this or just a coincidence, but it sures comes at a convenient time so that HF keeps being the lynch. On March 07 2019 12:06 Ace wrote:Holyflare is Scum https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=27283802 <---bullshit filter dive in fact, there are just too many posts that show he isn't scum hunting. It's either a lax attempt to show what someone else did wrong, asking "what should we do now?" type questions, or just filler. Outside of this, he killed Palmar. The entire reason behind my Day 1 post was to tie any mayor candidate to their lynch choice. It's not just that he didn't lynch Sentinel - if he had justifiable reasons then so be it. But he lynched Palmar and his reasoning rests on because he thought he was scum. Seriously. This guy should be the obvious lynch. How many people really thought Palmar was scum? He just did it because he could.And even if you somehow don't believe he's Scum he is clearly a net negative for the Town. He literally has done nothing - and this is coming from a guy who's been afk, caught up on only 30 pages or so and sees the nonsense plain as day. The nightkills - 3 dead. All Town. I refuse, literally refuse to think a vigilante shot any of them over Holyfield. Like it seems unfathomable that the targets would end up at Marv, Iamp, or Koshi (lol wut?). Especially with one being Vet and dying (maybe Rb + shot). If there's a third party out there, I think it goes without saying you should start shooting scum or clashing flips from now on Lastly, I saw something about marv playing cop wrong. I actually think he made himself "obvious town" or whatever you want to call it and should have drawn night protection. Especially since he was a replacement with fresh eyes into the game. Maybe we have no more docs or the kill went through somehow. Either way I think it's worth backtracking him and iamps posts (-2 nightlife means very desperate kill) especially. Then he goes on for all day, mainly talking about lynching HF. Note that he's now OK with BC, pushing HF together and referencing him in his posts. I'll elaborate about that in another part of the post - I don't think BC/Ace relationship necessarily show that they're partners, but it sure as hell don't prove they're cannot be partners. Finally, today. Mafia probably shot rayn, rsoul and WOS. Let's say they definitely shot at least 2 out of 3 to account for weird stuff like SK or whatever. They shot people that hard townread HF. At this point, Ace's narrative change - in his last big post during N3, Ace says that HF "definitely needs to be lynched whatever his alignment is". On March 09 2019 04:45 Ace wrote:
Anyone who is saying they think Holyflare is scum but won't lynch him because it's going to be too difficult and should be saved for LYLO is pretty much not worth keeping around. Cops and vigis should get their utmost attention. For whatever reasons that Holyflare will be alive Day 3, this support block needs to be eradicated. At this point I literally do not care that HF can possibly flip Town - he is detrimental to our win condition. Of course I find him funny so I would like to keep him around but I also want to win.
I think their plan was to continue pushing HF during D3 with BC. BUT BC DIES. So there goes that plan. Ace stops pushing for HF after that, and his reasonning is weird: On March 09 2019 09:03 Ace wrote:Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo BC On March 09 2019 09:08 Ace wrote:On March 09 2019 09:06 Holyflare wrote:
Oh hey look absolutely everyone that would be defending me died and the one guy that yelled about lynching me for dumb reasons was mafia. That's cool. Some of his reasons were good. He just happened to be your scum buddy :'( On March 09 2019 09:28 Ace wrote:
Wow. Ah well. All that fun trying to lynch HF is now down the drain. On March 09 2019 11:52 Ace wrote:On March 09 2019 11:37 LightningStrike wrote:On March 09 2019 11:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 09 2019 11:24 LightningStrike wrote:Day One Final Vote Count
Mayor
Holyflare (16): Tubesock, Holyflare, rsoultin, Ace, Mr. Wiggles, Jockmcplop, Mocsta, [UoN]Sentinel, Pandain, sicklucker, raynpelikoneet, Fecalfeast, iamperfection, Damdred, ExO_, Trfel
Palmar (12): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, LightningStrike, Vivax, BloodyC0bbler, Acrofales, Blazinghand
iamperfection (4): darthfoley, Tumblewood, Koshi, Oatsmaster
Chezinu (1):Chezinu
Onegu (1): Onegu
rsoultin (1): Rels
Lynch
Trfel (11): Tubesock, sicklucker, [UoN]Sentinel, Koshi, Mr. Wiggles, Tumblewood, Fecalfeast, Jockmcplop, Acrofales, Vivax, Conversion
Blazinghand (10): Holyflare, Grackaroni, iamperfection, Oatsmaster, WaveOfShadow, raynpelikoneet, Trfel, rsoultin, ExO_, LightningStrike
Conversion (3): Mocsta, Alakaslam, darthfoley
Acrofales (2): Damdred, Tictock
iamperfection (2): BloodyC0bbler, Blazinghand
Koshi (1): Ace
Fecalfeast (1): Pandain
Grackaroni (1): Meapak_Ziphh
LightningStrike (1): Rels
[UoN]Sentinel (1): Chezinu
rsoultin (1): Onegu
Mr. Wiggles (1): Palmar EoD1 votes with conrfirmed flips and claims so ya BC wasted his vote on a throwaway on iamp and town was scattered all over the place on the two lynch wagons Day 1. Ace,Pandain,MZ, Chezinu, and Onegu wasted their votes Day 1. might have a scum within those throw away votes since town was so scattered it's a safe play to do that. Both wagons were town. I don't think just from the votes you can make any inference about where the scum are. Scum know who HF is. If he's one of them it doesn't really matter who the mayor is between him and Palmar to scum because a townie gets lynched either way. If he's town it doesn't matter either but scum would have to take him at his word that he wants to lynch Palmar. Even if he did follow through on the BH lynch that's also a townie. Throwaway votes is usually scum indicating though in a TvT wagon though but I think scum is also within those 2 wagons since it's easy to blend in when it's TvT. Ya fair play about HF I wish we had a cop check on him >.< I'm thinking a cop has investigated HF by now and hasn't gotten a scum result so feels no need to claim. this last post makes no sense for 2 reasons. First, until just now HF has been a man that was probably gonna be vigd or lynched. Cops probably wouldn't bother with HF until now. Second, we already have a cop and a backup cop flipped, and 2 vigs. I don't know if it's reasonnable to suppose we have a lot more investigative role. The answer is that Ace stopped pushing HF because his helping buddy BC died, and because almost nobody else wants HF dead now. But he had to invent a reason to stop that push, and he crafted this one. Problem is that, it makes no sense 'cause it's fake.
A final point. Sent bought up the point that Ace / BC relationship make them unlikely partners. I disagree, I don't think it proves they're partners either, but nothing proves they aren't. It's true Ace attacked BC with during EOD1: On March 05 2019 08:49 Ace wrote:On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. This post reeks. Why would you pop up near EOD to post this? You even segregated players and faked outrage. Heavy FoS here. That turns into a kinda townread during D2: On March 07 2019 12:57 Ace wrote:On March 06 2019 10:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:BC is a scummers. This post before deadline reeks: + Show Spoiler +On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. He gets to come in, yell at town, and then set himself up to look vindicated if Palmar dies. No comments on any of the active wagons of which we know two (trfel, conv) were town, and says he disagrees with some of Palmar's reads without going into specifics. Very easy way to posture for 'town points' without needing to commit to anything. Besides that he's jumped on a couple other points but hasn't accomplished any real scum hunting in thread. Wiggles, not sure of the timing of the vote nor do I really disagree with this post. But I just checked the voting thread quickly and see BC has a vote on HF. Unless he finds reason to move, do you think BC + HF is a possible scum team? I also called BC scummy for the post near last EOD but outside of this do you sense scum motive from him? On March 07 2019 13:16 Ace wrote:On March 06 2019 11:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 06 2019 11:31 Mocsta wrote:On March 06 2019 11:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 06 2019 11:20 Grackaroni wrote:On March 06 2019 10:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:BC is a scummers. This post before deadline reeks:+ Show Spoiler +On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. He gets to come in, yell at town, and then set himself up to look vindicated if Palmar dies. No comments on any of the active wagons of which we know two (trfel, conv) were town, and says he disagrees with some of Palmar's reads without going into specifics. Very easy way to posture for 'town points' without needing to commit to anything. Besides that he's jumped on a couple other points but hasn't accomplished any real scum hunting in thread. This is plaigarism lol. Exact same word choice as Ace. On March 05 2019 08:49 Ace wrote:On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. This post reeks. Why would you pop up near EOD to post this? You even segregated players and faked outrage. Heavy FoS here. HAHAHA HOLY SHIT. Grack are you actually town? what do you think about ace though in that chained quote? I dont beleive he ever did ANYTHING with that. He didn't but it's funny how he said this: On March 05 2019 08:58 Ace wrote:
@BC: where did I say I want Palmar killed???
@trfel: I think you should seriously claim if lynch noise bout to drop. And then voted for HF lmao Yea :/. Was having this exchange with BC because I definitely did not see HF doing what he did. I actually thought Palmar had way too much sway for that move not to be met with instagib and also he didn't appear as scum to enough people for it to even be approachable. BC took my HF vote as a Palmar supported kill because he obviously believed the threat and was correct in the end. And a real townread during N2: On March 09 2019 00:18 Ace wrote:On March 08 2019 13:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey Ace, you asked me about BC but then never followed up. I'm curious about your own thoughts towards him. How are you reading BC? I'm still convinced he's scum. On March 07 2019 13:58 Mr. Wiggles wrote:We're opening up the lines, and we've already got our first caller! On March 07 2019 12:57 Ace wrote:On March 06 2019 10:45 Mr. Wiggles wrote:BC is a scummers. This post before deadline reeks: + Show Spoiler +On March 05 2019 08:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Wait. I go to fucking work then sleep and come back to this clusterfuck? Why for the love of god are we lynching Palmar of all fucking people. You may hate his fucking guts right now but of all the "vet" or big name players in this game hes actually put in more effort than anyone fucking else. Do you disagree with his reads? Likely. Do I? On some of them yes. But the guy is clearly playing for the town. Have any of you guys played with him? or remember games with him? He does this shit consistently with town. He polarizes everyone in the game for or against him to get reads / generate discussion. Sometimes it may just be because hes being an asshole or believes hes better than you. So no I am not down for lynching him -_- If you were going to off an old school player at this point just to do it you'd be better served with offing Me, Ace, BH, or MZ tbh. We all have done basically nothing in comparison. We as an entire group have literally designed a day that lets mafia just slide by and do sweet fuck all and based on thread sentiment could get away with it for way way way too long. Sure you could after the fact try and harass suspects for reasons but basically everyone can regurgitate the same horseshit and you get borderline nothing. So. HF get the fuck off Palmar. You may hate his fucking guts / think hes the worlds shittiest player but the guy is clearly attempting to help the town at this point and has done far more to push that then most in this game. How about instead we look into this pool. Onegu Why? 1) Says he will be try hard. Is clearly not thus is not living up to what he said he would attempt. 2) Reads currently given have no substance to them 3) Clearly skirting by the activity requirements 4) Basically just has posts with 0 content Iamperfection I have already brought him up in my last analysis post. Basically it is very similar however to expand on it. Show nested quote +On March 04 2019 05:40 iamperfection wrote:On March 04 2019 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
My response is more or less going to be impacted by your response to my question. i probably wont give my full reads until tomorrow. i think your probably town though cause i think your confused by my play and are trying to figure out my alignment Since I have been waiting now for awhile to see what reads he has. Let me sum it up for you. He hasn't posted any of value. Why? Because he hasnt posted any reasonable reasons. He has also asked for what? 3 vig shots now on players Someone like this whos played as long as he had know better. This isn't behaviour IMO of a townie. Its scum. He gets to come in, yell at town, and then set himself up to look vindicated if Palmar dies. No comments on any of the active wagons of which we know two (trfel, conv) were town, and says he disagrees with some of Palmar's reads without going into specifics. Very easy way to posture for 'town points' without needing to commit to anything. Besides that he's jumped on a couple other points but hasn't accomplished any real scum hunting in thread. Wiggles, not sure of the timing of the vote nor do I really disagree with this post. But I just checked the voting thread quickly and see BC has a vote on HF. Unless he finds reason to move, do you think BC + HF is a possible scum team? I also called BC scummy for the post near last EOD but outside of this do you sense scum motive from him? Hmm, could BC + HF be a possible scum team? I guess it's possible. I've had a town read on HF, but if that's wrong and he were to flip red, I don't think that clears BC. A bus of HF today would be pretty easy to support for scum, considering all the people lusting after his blood coming out of N1. I find BC to be a relative non-entity in this game who comes in long enough to throw around some accusations and act holier-than-thou before going to ground again. I think the exchange with Jock is a decent example of this. When Jock comes in with a weird post about HF, BC jumps on it but ends up mostly just berating Jock. BC's points don't do much to advance the case on HF itself but do allow him to blow up on what Jock is attributing as motivation to HF. Before BC came in there's been other people town reading HF, but BC doesn't try to address any of those points, instead he just hops on Jock's bad point because it's easy. For example, I'd contrast his play with yours right now. You're coming back into the thread after some time away, but you're adding comments about stuff you've read along the way. This is helpful and advances the thread. BC on the other hand comes in, plops down a post and then interacts with a couple people present in the thread (usually in a confrontational/negative way) before leaving again. It's obvious he's read the thread because he's putting forward a couple cases, but out of everything else that happens he seems to have basically no comment. It's the same old song and dance from BC today as well. We have him come in and rage about the decision to out the mason: + Show Spoiler [SanguinePie] +On March 08 2019 06:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:What the fuck is going on in this game? I leave for a bit and the thread turns to a shit show -_- How the fuck has more or less the entire thread glossed over the fact we had Rsoultin out Rel's role because she thought he was mafia then proceeded to not seriously push him as a candidate whatsoever Then proceeded to remain voting for someone she doesn't fully believe is fucking scum. Seriously wtf is wrong with you guys. We have already had a bunch of blues flip and no one questions seriously why its ok for someone to out another players role on a gut read? IMO there is literally no reason to out rels at this point in time unless you plan to go ham on a scum read. Show nested quote +On March 08 2019 05:57 Blazinghand wrote:On March 08 2019 05:54 sicklucker wrote:
Well if we dont kill hf now hes never dying. So ill just have to asume hes town if thats happening and pray mafia nk him and reevaluate if I dont kill. I dont think we have the votes to kill him today is what im trying to say. so lets set up a side wagon to bh. But fuck I dont have enough time We only need like 3 votes on HF. please vote him and stay on him. Don't say "let's just assume he's town for no reason because he's too good at convincing people to ever be able for us to lynch him" wtf Jesus fuck. Again, this is a really easy thing to pick on as scum because it's just yelling about mechanics and 'standard play'. A bunch of stuff people seem to do now looks weird compared to how we did things in the days of yore, but it's easy even for an old dog like me to see that it's simply a different kind of meta. For BC to react like this says that he either doesn't understand that, which I doubt, or that he's simply fishing for something to comment about without needing to fake scum hunting. The other posts he makes are just more useless arguing with HF. Browbeating HF does little to advance town, even if you're convinced he's scum. It would be way more productive to either push reasons to not lynch BH or try to dismantle the defence/rationale that other posters have put forward to not lynch HF. Instead he rolls around in the mud with HF for a while before popping out of the thread. Same old stuff he's been doing for the last couple cycles. BC is a pretty solid lynch for Day 3, I'd say. We are not lynching BC @Mocsta: you are a weird player. So all over the place 😏 On March 09 2019 04:45 Ace wrote:
I've already said 2 of these people are scum. This is the BH wagon. Now we obviously know some townies are lazy or were duped into thinking this was even a good idea. I doubt anyone seriously reading this game would think BH was ever a real suspect. Myself and others echoed this during Day 2. On Day 1 I prodded BH to stay in the game not only because I have good memories of him in past games and iirc modding, but I know scum would just pile on the easy mislynch and misguided townies would follow.
I would expect BC to pick up on this because he's a very good player and of course he did. Doesn't mean he isn't scum but someone caring about the nature of the lynch is probably Town. Of course I've currently got a Town read on Vivax too. Fuck me if either of them are Scum 🤦🏼♂️.
So no, I don't think their interactions are alignment indicative by themselves, and I think them trying to push a HF lynch / vig during the whole N1 / D2 / N2 makes a lot of sense.
Before I respond I want to ask:
Ace why did you vote for HF and then push him later?
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