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On February 25 2018 00:34 brickrd wrote:
what i don't understand is why people have to "discredit" power ranks as if the author is claiming they're important.
I assume, you misunderstand my post as discrediting power ranks, so I take a second to explain where my post is coming from.
My post is targeted towards people who complain (not just disagree - two different things) about those rankings. Who take them more important, as they are. This has nothing to do with discrediting the work of an author. In fact I appreciate the effort and hope to see more of that.
As you say, they are there to hype a tournament - and that is something good. But it is just that. No reason to question those rankings as such. They are here to deliver a certain kind of information and that's what they are good for.
I'm looking forward to who actually ends up in the playoffs of those ranked players. Especially I'm looking forward how Scarlett will perform after her recent success at IEM and GSL.
However - they are not important. The outcome of the tournament will be, so I don't see the point why some people act like it would - that's all.
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I can see improvements in Scarlett's play so I respect that, though would probably rank her at 9 or 10. At 7 Scarlett is getting way more respect than Gumiho did after winning the GSL title, sounds reasonable? Serral just won a WCS tournament. Nothing to see here. He is a good player and always was capable of winning a WCS tournament. You just don't become a top 10 player by winning one. Zest at No.10? Except his popularity, he's on Dear's level. What have Inno and TY done to grant them no.4 and no.6? Being Inno and TY? Then what about Rogue and Stats? I actually agree with Inno and TY's ranking but I question the justification here.
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Scarlett didn't just win, she crushed it.
BUT
As impressive as the wins where, they seemed to been made for that player. She wount have the time to prepare builds as well now because less time inbetween games + multiple opponents on the same day even.
I personaly feel she might be the very best at tactical knockouts/takedowns atm and her opponents should respect her for that. But she risks to meet to many good players on one day and then she will have to trust her bread&butter builds that don't pressure the opponent that much.
All in all I actually more worried for the 6 player groups then the quarter-semi-final bracket.
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On February 25 2018 00:08 Charoisaur wrote:
I think reputation factors in this as well.
If just going by recent form and nothing else last year's INnoVation vs sOs finals should've been one of the most one-sided GSL finals in history. The only reason sOs wasn't completely written off was his reputation and what happened? He somehow took Inno to 7 games and the people believing in sOs because of his reputation were proven right.
I'm not sure how a player can be in a bad form if he reaches a GSL final.
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1st place for the tournament is 100k+ and sOs is not instantly ranked #1?!
Fail list.
Crazy thing is, I'm only partially joking. The guy just wins these
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On February 25 2018 06:51 Mike L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 06:06 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 04:48 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 02:34 Mike L wrote:On February 24 2018 23:11 Charoisaur wrote:
The WCS system is succeding in creating the illusion that foreigners are on par with koreans apparently.
Can't wait for the slaughter.
Reaching the GSL playoffs is apparently enough for Scarlett to get #7 but Maru who did the same in a harder group is somehow not even in the list??
Gumiho, Dear, Rogue, Trap and Impact should all be above Serral. and btw Maru recent results are little bit worse compared to Scarlett By what measure? Maru's GSL performance was better (both reached ro8 yes but Scarlett had an easier group), and results in the IEM/WeSG qualifiers were a lot better than Scarlett's. it wasn`t better in both stages Maru has not been even able to won his own group with always ranked second, plus that lose match against Keen didn`t spotted him in better light too. yes he did better performance at IEM quali but Scarlett had won IEM event not just simple quali, so at the end the consequence is that she defeated simply more formiddable opponents than Maru by recent time Maru got second in the group to Classic, who is probably the best player in the world right now. While Scarlett had the easiest group in the ro16. In terms of IEM/WeSG events it's not even questinable that Maru has done better than Scarlett. The fact she won IEM doesn't mean much when you remember she qualified from NA and only beat one korean in the actual event. Simply put, beating Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho in long macro games/series is more impressive than beating sOs and Inno with quick cheese. (How you choose to win doesn't really matter, but one method is more reliable than the other). for me beating Rogue/soO/Elazer/Serral/sOs/Zest/Innovation in a row in two big tournaments, won IEM and ro16 GSL group is certainly much more impressive than beat Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho and achieve nothing
Winning IEM and a GSL group sound incredible on paper until you realise that the only seriously impressive wins she's had were against Innovation and sOs. I don't really know what to say if you think beating sOs and Inno by cheesing every game shows more skill than winning mutliple series against players like Dark, Gumiho, Dear, or Solar that involved both cheese and macro/lategame play
Not to say what Scarlett has done isn't impressive, it really is. But to rank her above Gumiho, Dear, or Maru right now isn't right. Unless you're ranking them based of hype and not how likely they are to do well in the tournament
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United States97274 Posts
Classic gonna annihilate some kids
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On February 25 2018 12:32 Fango wrote:
I don't really know what to say if you think beating sOs and Inno by cheesing every game shows more skill than winning mutliple series against players like Dark, Gumiho, Dear, or Solar that involved both cheese and macro/lategame play
Did you actually watch those games? In both her series against $o$ and against zest there was a macro game and in her second game against inno that wasn't cheese she hard countered his normal TvZ build order, but that's not cheese, that's inno not respecting his opponent.
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So glad Classic's not underrated this time, the man is on fire.
Personally I just hope all foreigners get crushed like last year, still recalls how I enjoyed Dark vs Serral and Stats vs Nerchio where casters try their best to hype the foreigners while Kespa just rolled over them.
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Half of the players on this power rank will be out before the tournament really starts on Friday.
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On February 25 2018 10:56 leublix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 00:08 Charoisaur wrote:
I think reputation factors in this as well.
If just going by recent form and nothing else last year's INnoVation vs sOs finals should've been one of the most one-sided GSL finals in history. The only reason sOs wasn't completely written off was his reputation and what happened? He somehow took Inno to 7 games and the people believing in sOs because of his reputation were proven right.
I'm not sure how a player can be in a bad form if he reaches a GSL final.
Inca
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On February 25 2018 13:58 yht9657 wrote:
So glad Classic's not underrated this time, the man is on fire.
Personally I just hope all foreigners get crushed like last year, still recalls how I enjoyed Dark vs Serral and Stats vs Nerchio where casters try their best to hype the foreigners while Kespa just rolled over them.
KeSPA stopped being involved with Starcraft 2 years ago.
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On February 25 2018 13:46 platondas wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 12:32 Fango wrote:
I don't really know what to say if you think beating sOs and Inno by cheesing every game shows more skill than winning mutliple series against players like Dark, Gumiho, Dear, or Solar that involved both cheese and macro/lategame play
Did you actually watch those games? In both her series against $o$ and against zest there was a macro game and in her second game against inno that wasn't cheese she hard countered his normal TvZ build order, but that's not cheese, that's inno not respecting his opponent.
If that wasn't cheese there is no cheese
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On February 25 2018 10:56 leublix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 00:08 Charoisaur wrote:
I think reputation factors in this as well.
If just going by recent form and nothing else last year's INnoVation vs sOs finals should've been one of the most one-sided GSL finals in history. The only reason sOs wasn't completely written off was his reputation and what happened? He somehow took Inno to 7 games and the people believing in sOs because of his reputation were proven right.
I'm not sure how a player can be in a bad form if he reaches a GSL final.
that's the enigma of sOs, isn't it?
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On February 25 2018 12:32 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 06:51 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 06:06 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 04:48 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 02:34 Mike L wrote:On February 24 2018 23:11 Charoisaur wrote:
The WCS system is succeding in creating the illusion that foreigners are on par with koreans apparently.
Can't wait for the slaughter.
Reaching the GSL playoffs is apparently enough for Scarlett to get #7 but Maru who did the same in a harder group is somehow not even in the list??
Gumiho, Dear, Rogue, Trap and Impact should all be above Serral. and btw Maru recent results are little bit worse compared to Scarlett By what measure? Maru's GSL performance was better (both reached ro8 yes but Scarlett had an easier group), and results in the IEM/WeSG qualifiers were a lot better than Scarlett's. it wasn`t better in both stages Maru has not been even able to won his own group with always ranked second, plus that lose match against Keen didn`t spotted him in better light too. yes he did better performance at IEM quali but Scarlett had won IEM event not just simple quali, so at the end the consequence is that she defeated simply more formiddable opponents than Maru by recent time Maru got second in the group to Classic, who is probably the best player in the world right now. While Scarlett had the easiest group in the ro16. In terms of IEM/WeSG events it's not even questinable that Maru has done better than Scarlett. The fact she won IEM doesn't mean much when you remember she qualified from NA and only beat one korean in the actual event. Simply put, beating Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho in long macro games/series is more impressive than beating sOs and Inno with quick cheese. (How you choose to win doesn't really matter, but one method is more reliable than the other). for me beating Rogue/soO/Elazer/Serral/sOs/Zest/Innovation in a row in two big tournaments, won IEM and ro16 GSL group is certainly much more impressive than beat Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho and achieve nothing Winning IEM and a GSL group sound incredible on paper until you realise that the only seriously impressive wins she's had were against Innovation and sOs. I don't really know what to say if you think beating sOs and Inno by cheesing every game shows more skill than winning mutliple series against players like Dark, Gumiho, Dear, or Solar that involved both cheese and macro/lategame play Not to say what Scarlett has done isn't impressive, it really is. But to rank her above Gumiho, Dear, or Maru right now isn't right. Unless you're ranking them based of hype and not how likely they are to do well in the tournament
Wouldn`t you trying to say that Maru in the last few months was more succesfull and intimidating player than Scarlett just because he beats strong players in macro games while Scarlett sometimes used cheeses? You ruin the determinition of logical conclusion by that statement then
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On February 25 2018 20:00 Mike L wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 12:32 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 06:51 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 06:06 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 04:48 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 02:34 Mike L wrote:On February 24 2018 23:11 Charoisaur wrote:
The WCS system is succeding in creating the illusion that foreigners are on par with koreans apparently.
Can't wait for the slaughter.
Reaching the GSL playoffs is apparently enough for Scarlett to get #7 but Maru who did the same in a harder group is somehow not even in the list??
Gumiho, Dear, Rogue, Trap and Impact should all be above Serral. and btw Maru recent results are little bit worse compared to Scarlett By what measure? Maru's GSL performance was better (both reached ro8 yes but Scarlett had an easier group), and results in the IEM/WeSG qualifiers were a lot better than Scarlett's. it wasn`t better in both stages Maru has not been even able to won his own group with always ranked second, plus that lose match against Keen didn`t spotted him in better light too. yes he did better performance at IEM quali but Scarlett had won IEM event not just simple quali, so at the end the consequence is that she defeated simply more formiddable opponents than Maru by recent time Maru got second in the group to Classic, who is probably the best player in the world right now. While Scarlett had the easiest group in the ro16. In terms of IEM/WeSG events it's not even questinable that Maru has done better than Scarlett. The fact she won IEM doesn't mean much when you remember she qualified from NA and only beat one korean in the actual event. Simply put, beating Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho in long macro games/series is more impressive than beating sOs and Inno with quick cheese. (How you choose to win doesn't really matter, but one method is more reliable than the other). for me beating Rogue/soO/Elazer/Serral/sOs/Zest/Innovation in a row in two big tournaments, won IEM and ro16 GSL group is certainly much more impressive than beat Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho and achieve nothing Winning IEM and a GSL group sound incredible on paper until you realise that the only seriously impressive wins she's had were against Innovation and sOs. I don't really know what to say if you think beating sOs and Inno by cheesing every game shows more skill than winning mutliple series against players like Dark, Gumiho, Dear, or Solar that involved both cheese and macro/lategame play Not to say what Scarlett has done isn't impressive, it really is. But to rank her above Gumiho, Dear, or Maru right now isn't right. Unless you're ranking them based of hype and not how likely they are to do well in the tournament Wouldn`t you trying to say that Maru in the last few months was more succesfull and intimidating player than Scarlett just because he beats strong players in macro games while Scarlett sometimes used cheeses? You ruin the determinition of logical conclusion by that statement then
definitely not more succesful but winning in macro games is more of an indicator that the player will have success in the future because cheesy playstyles generally fall off drastically once the other players adapt to it.
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On February 25 2018 16:56 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 13:58 yht9657 wrote:
So glad Classic's not underrated this time, the man is on fire.
Personally I just hope all foreigners get crushed like last year, still recalls how I enjoyed Dark vs Serral and Stats vs Nerchio where casters try their best to hype the foreigners while Kespa just rolled over them.
KeSPA stopped being involved with Starcraft 2 years ago.
It's just a metaphor.
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On February 25 2018 07:08 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 07:03 TheDougler wrote:
Massive Scarlett fan, but this is in my estimation the first REAL global tournament we’ve seen in years. I witnessed the foreigner bloodbaths of 2013-2014, and I know better than to get my hopes up here.
What about Katowice last year?
Yeah fair point, but even then only one foreigner in top 8.
(You're right though, I checked that liquipedia page just after writing that).
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EPT
