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On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there
got to give something to all the foreigner fans...i'm sure they exist somewhere
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On February 25 2018 21:11 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2018 20:00 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 12:32 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 06:51 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 06:06 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 04:48 Mike L wrote:On February 25 2018 02:56 Fango wrote:On February 25 2018 02:34 Mike L wrote:On February 24 2018 23:11 Charoisaur wrote:
The WCS system is succeding in creating the illusion that foreigners are on par with koreans apparently.
Can't wait for the slaughter.
Reaching the GSL playoffs is apparently enough for Scarlett to get #7 but Maru who did the same in a harder group is somehow not even in the list??
Gumiho, Dear, Rogue, Trap and Impact should all be above Serral. and btw Maru recent results are little bit worse compared to Scarlett By what measure? Maru's GSL performance was better (both reached ro8 yes but Scarlett had an easier group), and results in the IEM/WeSG qualifiers were a lot better than Scarlett's. it wasn`t better in both stages Maru has not been even able to won his own group with always ranked second, plus that lose match against Keen didn`t spotted him in better light too. yes he did better performance at IEM quali but Scarlett had won IEM event not just simple quali, so at the end the consequence is that she defeated simply more formiddable opponents than Maru by recent time Maru got second in the group to Classic, who is probably the best player in the world right now. While Scarlett had the easiest group in the ro16. In terms of IEM/WeSG events it's not even questinable that Maru has done better than Scarlett. The fact she won IEM doesn't mean much when you remember she qualified from NA and only beat one korean in the actual event. Simply put, beating Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho in long macro games/series is more impressive than beating sOs and Inno with quick cheese. (How you choose to win doesn't really matter, but one method is more reliable than the other). for me beating Rogue/soO/Elazer/Serral/sOs/Zest/Innovation in a row in two big tournaments, won IEM and ro16 GSL group is certainly much more impressive than beat Solar/Dark/Dear/Gumiho and achieve nothing Winning IEM and a GSL group sound incredible on paper until you realise that the only seriously impressive wins she's had were against Innovation and sOs. I don't really know what to say if you think beating sOs and Inno by cheesing every game shows more skill than winning mutliple series against players like Dark, Gumiho, Dear, or Solar that involved both cheese and macro/lategame play Not to say what Scarlett has done isn't impressive, it really is. But to rank her above Gumiho, Dear, or Maru right now isn't right. Unless you're ranking them based of hype and not how likely they are to do well in the tournament Wouldn`t you trying to say that Maru in the last few months was more succesfull and intimidating player than Scarlett just because he beats strong players in macro games while Scarlett sometimes used cheeses? You ruin the determinition of logical conclusion by that statement then definitely not more succesful but winning in macro games is more of an indicator that the player will have success in the future because cheesy playstyles generally fall off drastically once the other players adapt to it.
Maru is No. 1 on KR server right now. i know... ladder is ladder, but at least it says he's doing all right in current meta. Anyways... outside of korea you cannot except to much from maru.
That being said, im all right with Classic at 1. But i think, there are a least 6-8 players, who have a realistic shot of winning it. That means for me, there is no big favorite.
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there
There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player.
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On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player.
About 10k reasons?
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Ranks 7 & 8 on this "top 10" are eliminated Day 1. Whoops.
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On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player.
I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear.
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On February 27 2018 06:57 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player. I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear.
The biggest argument for ranking Serral above Dear would be to watch the games he played in his GSL group. 
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On February 27 2018 06:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 06:57 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player. I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear. The biggest argument for ranking Serral above Dear would be to watch the games he played in his GSL group.
How you know that Serral wouldn't have bombed out of that group as well though?
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On February 27 2018 07:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 06:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 27 2018 06:57 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player. I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear. The biggest argument for ranking Serral above Dear would be to watch the games he played in his GSL group. How you know that Serral wouldn't have bombed out of that group as well though?
The games Dear played looked for painfully bad that in the absence of other evidence I'd favor Serral over him.
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On February 27 2018 07:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 07:02 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 06:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 27 2018 06:57 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player. I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear. The biggest argument for ranking Serral above Dear would be to watch the games he played in his GSL group. How you know that Serral wouldn't have bombed out of that group as well though? The games Dear played looked for painfully bad that in the absence of other evidence I'd favor Serral over him.
Fair enough. But it's strange that people watch Serral dumpster eu players and say he looks so good that they'd favour him over Dear at the same time. Gumiho and Maru should still be favourates however
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On February 27 2018 07:12 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 07:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 27 2018 07:02 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 06:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 27 2018 06:57 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player. I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear. The biggest argument for ranking Serral above Dear would be to watch the games he played in his GSL group. How you know that Serral wouldn't have bombed out of that group as well though? The games Dear played looked for painfully bad that in the absence of other evidence I'd favor Serral over him. Fair enough. But it's strange that people watch Serral dumpster eu players and say he looks so good that they'd favour him over Dear at the same time.
This is why Katowice is such a great event--by the end of the week we'll finally get some solid data as to how good Serral is (unless ESL puts Serral in Group C).
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On February 27 2018 07:16 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 07:12 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 07:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 27 2018 07:02 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 06:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 27 2018 06:57 Fango wrote:On February 27 2018 04:43 Olli wrote:On February 27 2018 03:36 Charoisaur wrote:On February 26 2018 18:03 Olli wrote:On February 26 2018 18:01 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
Oh I hope Rogue wins now and shuts up all those mizenhauers about "patchzergs" and "power ranks" authors I disagree that he's a patchzerg, but there's no argument to be made for him to be in this ranking. He's done nothing to justify it recently. And recent form is what matters most here. There's also no argument to be made for Serral making it into this ranking and yet he's there There are plenty, actually. He's just a good player. I've heard the arguments for Serral to be ranked highly, but I don't see how any of them justify him being higher than Gumiho, Maru, or Dear. The biggest argument for ranking Serral above Dear would be to watch the games he played in his GSL group. How you know that Serral wouldn't have bombed out of that group as well though? The games Dear played looked for painfully bad that in the absence of other evidence I'd favor Serral over him. Fair enough. But it's strange that people watch Serral dumpster eu players and say he looks so good that they'd favour him over Dear at the same time. This is why Katowice is such a great event--by the end of the week we'll finally get some solid data as to how good Serral is (unless ESL puts Serral in Group C).
Inb4 Group C is 6 Zergs
screams internally
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Last year Serral was the only top of the line player in group C iirc. Hopefully he gets some competition this year
edit: actually looking at the brackets there's no way each group doesn't have at least a few elite players
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Canada2764 Posts
On February 27 2018 06:47 pNRG wrote:
Ranks 7 & 8 on this "top 10" are eliminated Day 1. Whoops.
Do you think Stats should've been ranked lower than souL?
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As i said, Scarlett tends to underperform in these kind of tournaments (or overperforms in group style tournaments). Also, she didnt even have to play ZvT, imo her worst matchup.
To me, she is not on a level with Serral/Neeb/Elazer simply because she is super inconsistant - she might even be below Showtime and Special tbh. Should ask the ranking god before making power rankings.
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On February 27 2018 08:11 KalWarkov wrote:
As i said, Scarlett tends to underperform in these kind of tournaments (or overperforms in group style tournaments). Also, she didnt even have to play ZvT, imo her worst matchup.
To me, she is not on a level with Serral/Neeb/Elazer simply because she is super inconsistant - she might even be below Showtime and Special tbh. Should ask the ranking god before making power rankings.
Yeah, Scarlett is usually inconsistent at a foreign level but pretty decent at a Korean level somehow. It's kind of like Snute or Stephano where they're able to do well against Koreans but still lose to foreigners or foreigner level.
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On February 27 2018 14:05 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 08:11 KalWarkov wrote:
As i said, Scarlett tends to underperform in these kind of tournaments (or overperforms in group style tournaments). Also, she didnt even have to play ZvT, imo her worst matchup.
To me, she is not on a level with Serral/Neeb/Elazer simply because she is super inconsistant - she might even be below Showtime and Special tbh. Should ask the ranking god before making power rankings. Yeah, Scarlett is usually inconsistent at a foreign level but pretty decent at a Korean level somehow. It's kind of like Snute or Stephano where they're able to do well against Koreans but still lose to foreigners or foreigner level.
While Scarlett does suffer from inconsistent performance, looking a little closer at her recent results leads me to the belief that they're not so much the product of inconsistency as much as they are preparation (or lack thereof).
ZvZ is an unpredictable match, as everyone knows. While winning ZvZ is still an achievement, it's also hard to repeat on a consistent basis. Therefore, it shouldn't be a surprise that Scarlett has both won and lost ZvZ matches against opponents of all ranges of skill (from Namshar to Rogue).
In the case of sOs and Inno, I believe it's a simple case of arrogance. Scarlett–with a great deal of help from Noregret–meticulously prepared cheese builds to exploit the weaknesses of standard PvZ and TvZ play. sOs and Inno, in turn, assumed out of arrogance that they could simply play standard to defeat Scarlett and so fell victim to Noregret's style.
That being the case, it should hardly come as a surprise that Scarlett lost ZvZ matches against (presumably) not-so-arrogant opponents she did not specifically prepare for.
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On February 27 2018 14:05 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 08:11 KalWarkov wrote:
As i said, Scarlett tends to underperform in these kind of tournaments (or overperforms in group style tournaments). Also, she didnt even have to play ZvT, imo her worst matchup.
To me, she is not on a level with Serral/Neeb/Elazer simply because she is super inconsistant - she might even be below Showtime and Special tbh. Should ask the ranking god before making power rankings. Yeah, Scarlett is usually inconsistent at a foreign level but pretty decent at a Korean level somehow. It's kind of like Snute or Stephano where they're able to do well against Koreans but still lose to foreigners or foreigner level.
When Stephano was full pro he was really strong against foreigner, except zergs
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On February 27 2018 06:47 pNRG wrote:
Ranks 7 & 8 on this "top 10" are eliminated Day 1. Whoops.
And now #5 gone.
The tl writers sure dropped the ball with this power rank.
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 28 2018 02:46 D-light wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2018 06:47 pNRG wrote:
Ranks 7 & 8 on this "top 10" are eliminated Day 1. Whoops. And now #5 gone. The tl writers sure dropped the ball with this power rank.
Unfortunately the community PR was never finished, so I can't link it to you and laugh
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