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9069 Posts
It's been a while...
In a couple of days my tl.net account will turn 10 years old. It is actually hard to contemplate what that means - when I decided to register I was 19 years old, new in a foreign country. I felt alien in my surrounding, far away from my high school friends, unready to move on from the comfortable and easy years as a teenager. I can't even recall how I stumbled upon TL and I would imagine the way I got hooked up is pretty trivial - I needed a happy place and this community and the exotic world of korean professonal starcraft was it.
While my involvement in this community and the career path TL set me on are arguably the two main reasons to be reflective over this anniversary, I will spare you that self-indulgence. Instead, the fact that I've been around for 10 years made me thinking of esports and gaming in general. Its cool to speculate and think about the future of this...thing..of ours that grew so much and so fast that sometimes its even hard to recognize it as our 'thing' anymore. We are out in the mainstream now, for better or worse. The way we got here changed our community and even gaming as a whole for good.
On the gaming community
Looking back at how massive tl.net was back in the day, its hard for me not to feel regrets about being part of it and failing to maintain the momentum the site had after the launch of sc2. When the stats were declining due to the waining popularity of the game we were focusing on, I probably took the wrong stance of becoming a negative doomsayer.
What at the time I failed to realize is that our internal policy and page design were not the reason for tl's declining visitors. It was the community that was changing - forums and news sites were becoming an obsolete way to consume content. It is simply too big of a time investment to be an active member of those on a daily basis. That's why reddit took over, it was the consumption of news and discussions in quick bites that became more appealing - you didn't have keep track or even engage in a discussion to know whats the hot stuff of the day. But beyond reddit, the most important shift for the gaming community was of course streaming. People with interest in gaming just recognized twitch as the main place to allocate their time mainly because engagement in the content is not required. Watching streams is just extremely low effort and channel chats rooms are mostly an inconsequential and anonymous braindead fun. At the end I think tl's faith of shrinking back to a place of people with very focused interest in esports and starcraft in particular was inevitable.
That said, it is interesting to speculate where the community will go in the next 10 years or so. In my mind the growth of it will cause an eventual fragmentation where people will recognize very different platforms and sub communities as their happy places and even people with common interest in the same game wont necessary gravitate to the same big hubs of information. Quite the opposite, l think local places of gaming gatherings will become a lot more common - be it esports bars, or local facebook groups around a certain game, I think the actual scale of how big reddit and streaming is for some of those games will alienate people from those communities and instead drive them to find smaller groups of people and safe spaces to share their interest in. While it was special to meet a starcraft guy back in the day and talk about the game for hours, nowadays coming across a LoL or OW person is far less special, not only that but you might actually have a bad time coming across a weirdo. It will be exciting to see it all unfold
On esports and gaming
My biggest observation about the development of esports ever since I made my TL acccount, is how much more casual games have become... Lets elaborate on that. If we look at the very first wave of popular esports titles, with the notable exception of counter strike, most of them were all 1v1 games. Be it fighting games or RTS, those games were the popular esports names as skill was instantly recognizable and easy to appreciate as a spectator. The downfall of that 1v1 format of competition is of course the fact that this environment can be extremely stressful and hard to enjoy. Even on traditional sports level, with the exception of martial arts, tennis and golf, all other massively commercially successful sports are team competitions. The hardcore 1v1 online setting made it harder for new players to jump in, once the older player accumulated enough skill and knowledge overtime to basically kill the enjoyment for someone new coming into the game if they got to play against each other.
While MOBAs are equally demanding in terms of strategy and knowledge, the fact that these are all team games, removed a lot of the stress and anxiety from playing online. It still sucks to lose, but its much easier to internalize those loses when you have 4 other people aside of yourself to blame. The fear of losing is what in my opinion changed multiplayer gaming and made team formats, regardless of the genre more popular.
The next step of getting rid of the anxiety of losing, is of course to make winning far less likely than 50/50, regardless if you are playing by yourself or in a party with friends and randoes. Which brings me to the rise of the battle royale genre - by throwing a lot of players into this huge map with random RNG drops and so on, the chance of consistently winning is decreased so significantly for the casual player, that losing becomes the expected outcome. PUBG and all these other games are fun and attracted players because the feeling of success can be very subjective - you can still feel great even simply by being one of the last 10 players remaining while this accomplishment could have very little to do with how good you are at the game. Of course better players will always perform at the top, but for new or bad players losing is framed as this very likely and completely normal outcome. I think once the spectator format and production is figured out, PUBG and Fortnight will overtake all other genres in popularity. But in my mind an RTS will never be on top again...
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With how things are changing, the next 10 years will be extremely exciting, but rest assured tl.net will still be around. And will be around too, writing another of those blogs. I already have a google calendar reminder for 30th of January 2028 
 
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Grats mate.
Btw meeting sc nerds is still fucking fantastic.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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Amazing post. Congratulations.
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I agree about the casual aspect of gaming. RTS and in particular Starcraft. A new player can lose really badly. It can lead to a drop in morale and not wanting to keep getting slaughtered every game. Back in the day we'd just keep on trying and soldier on. However, these days there are more options like MOBA and Arena/battle royal games. Makes it more fun and easier to get into.
Shame, but I guess RTS isn't what the new kids are into anymore. When our generation is into our late 30's and early 40's I don;t RTS will be very strong E-sports wise. Most up and comers are into shooters/MOBAs and other team games.
It was still a fun ride though in Brood War. I'll still play it even when I'm 40.
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FREEAGLELAND26780 Posts
Happy 10 years Ivaylo \o/
Your graphics way back when for all the random LR threads and news recaps were the shit. I'll always remember you for them!
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It's been an honor serving with you!
Good to reflect every now and then on this crazy ride. Nearly 18 years since starting Liquid now. We'll still be here decades from now.
I still believe RTS can be amongst the top under the right conditions, but not the current games that are out at least.
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On January 27 2018 21:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
It's been an honor serving with you!
Good to reflect every now and then on this crazy ride. Nearly 18 years since starting Liquid now. We'll still be here decades from now.
I still believe RTS can be amongst the top under the right conditions, but not the current games that are out at least.
What do you feel is lacking?
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9069 Posts
I dont want to speak for the boss but here is why I dont think RTS will be on top again....unless...
In my mind RTS in terms of skills and appreciation is the best format to watch and understand. The reason for that is that the warfare concepts in that format are grounded in real world warfare logic and strategy. That said, I dont believe the limitation of the format in terms of online experience and fear of losing are going to be overcome, unless, the presentation and paradigm changes dramatically and games switch to a full VR experience like the Enders Game. I think the Enders Game predicts pretty well where games can go in terms of emersion, and the fact the simulation is real life warfare is a very deliberate choice.
So yes, when the technology is here for gaming to break the barrier between virtual reality and....reality.... RTS will be the genre gaming naturally comes back to as its the most immersive and relatable genre to understand....
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On January 28 2018 09:56 disciple wrote:
So yes, when the technology is here for gaming to break the barrier between virtual reality and....reality.... RTS will be the genre gaming naturally comes back to as its the most immersive and relatable genre to understand....
Unfortunately I can't really agree. Our IRL FPV is that of a human being in a meat locker. We are not constantly multitasking several other entities, much less armies. Sure, some generals wish they could, but the average person does not. So, as far as virtual "reality" goes, the most applicable and relatable genres would easily be FPS and RPG before RTS.
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Congrats on 10 years!
I have to agree on e-sports casualisation (and games, overall). It's a pity, because my interest in both declines sharply with each passing year and not because I'm simply getting older, but because there's almost nothing of worth to choose from anymore.
My account may not be as old as Nazgul's, but I've been here for the last 14 years now, huh. At this point it's really hard to imagine *not* browsing tl.net at least once every now and then; This site and netwars have become a part of my daily routine. I hope I won't ever have to change it
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On January 27 2018 05:43 disciple wrote:
... While MOBAs are equally demanding in terms of strategy and knowledge, the fact that these are all team games, removed a lot of the stress and anxiety from playing online. It still sucks to lose, but its much easier to internalize those loses when you have 4 other people aside of yourself to blame. The fear of losing is what in my opinion changed multiplayer gaming and made team formats, regardless of the genre more popular.
when i bring up the idea with friends that people tend to lean to easier ways of playing games, it's a companion phrase to say that blaming teammates or outside causes is much more common than searching for a way to improve yourself.
but i don't think that's why it's gotten so popular. people still love core RTS aspects and maybe they are afraid of committing to learning and controlling everything, but nothing has evolved or changed in the way that large armies hitting each other is enjoyed. i think it has more to do with expectations being high for big production multiplayer games.
it's inherently much more difficult to have a properly balanced (fair) strategy game than it is to have a moba that involves several factors and is actually impossible to balance all at once. these games thrive on consistent change and players are looking to play a perfect individual game, even when they can't control everything that happens with their teammates.
i understand that point you're making, but session-based gamers just play because they don't mind doing it with friends.
large games are going to garner an even larger amount of gamers and the worldwide appeal of a niche strategy game is also based on the kind of content you can create from it. can you make funny videos of starcraft that practically every casual gamer can understand and appreciate? no, not really. league of legends is different because it is already such a large game involving several millions of players just daily. it's impossible to not create some good content for the game, or for people to understand most of its complicated aspects.
all in all, i think it has more to do with how everything is much more accessible and how easy it is to connect with your friends over a common (popular) game. back then if you had played counterstrike 1.5 and below, it was pretty simple. you liked shooters and a lot of the guys you knew played the game. you liked the idea of online games and everyone you knew competed with this game regardless of how difficult the game actually was. we didn't have a lot of choices in front of us in this sense.
i think the same thing happens with people stuck in the LoL cycle. they are sticking to a game they supposedly have some mastery in and something they know has staying power with most of their friends or future friends in their younger age group. it's our counter-strike or starcraft of back in the day but with more reach because of the surge of e-sports, broadcasting, and all the ease compared to before (HLTV, low quality streams, necessary internet know-how).
how many people do you know in the 30+ range actually still play LoL fervently?
it's quite simply the trend that emerged from these games getting the popularity and snowballing. i feel this because when i had played the league of legends alpha, all the way to second season, the game was quite frankly garbage but it had a lot of things going for it like, any computer could play it, it was free, and there was a lack of alternatives free from the usual online gaming tropes (looking at korea).
LoL got itself a great start, and a casual online game is what a lot of people evidently needed. all the infrastructure was there to make it succeed, and the money they put back into the game? the majority of it was made from virtual products with practically infinite stock and extremely low overhead.
they had a lot to work with and even through all the mess-ups they've had, they get to keep the game simple.
i don't think 1v1 was ever as popular as you or i felt it was in our own world of gaming.
would you rather invite another friend to come play with your boys, or play against each other?
even a competitive spirit like me could tell you the obvious answer.
because team format is the best way to play the game (the only way to play the game), that is what it is.
competition will sprout from anything so long as it is popular and there is no other competing game out in the market.
and, would you rather not play with 4 other people, than with 3, 2, or by your very lonesome?
battle royale means that you are suddenly playing with dozens of players.
in their separate game modes--LoL and battle royale--we're pretty much still enjoying similar aspects of those existing in our old RTS games, but it is more relatable, we talk much more about it, and we spend more time on it.
how are future generations going to remember their most intense LoL games? probably not very well, because a new kind of game will be emergent. the LoL of their time, the counterstrike or starcraft/wc3 of our time, and a different game that became wildly popular in a different region of the world that most people have probably never heard of.
someone will produce a game where large armies collide and we are just a pawn making a big difference alongside our friends. maybe in VR, maybe not. and that's going to be the "RTS" for that period in gaming. how popular and successful it gets depends on how much wind gets behind those sails.
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FuDDx
United States5006 Posts
Happy 10!!
This is an amazing site and community. It sure has changed and grown into this wonderful crazy powerhouse!! I feel proud to be a part of this site with such great people like yourself who make this all work!
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Congrats! I too share the same feelings except I still have yet to make my mark in the scene. Definitely want to with some upcoming changes, so good luck to yours!
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Kau
Canada3500 Posts
I find that there's nothing that frustrates me more than playing 3v3 bgh and being dependent on having competent random allies to be able to win. In that sense I find it better to play on my own so that I'm in control of winning or losing. Though it seems like that's an old school way of thinking considering the popularity of 5v5 games.
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Japan11285 Posts
I'd say there are mental states and frustrations attached to them that commonly occur either format. There is the 'if you want something done, you do it yourself' kind of mentality in 1v1 and the 'let's team up and beat the other guys' kind of mentality in 5v5 for example.
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Baltimore, USA22247 Posts
On January 27 2018 07:25 StorrZerg wrote:
Grats mate.
Btw meeting sc nerds is still fucking fantastic.
Truth.
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EPT
