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Actually, I'm not sure it is his worst matchup.
Looking solely at his versus Korean results just in 2017, his vP and vT matchups are relatively similar, and his vZ matchup is his worst matchup by far. Of course, this is inflated by him beating up on Keen and aLive, and he's only played 44 maps total against Korean Terrans (online and offline).
This lines up with his results against foreigners, with his vP and vT having similar (if inflated) results with his vZ being his worst matchup by a large margin.
Does not make much sense to look at historical results as Elazer has only started to play full time pro in June 2017 (thats like 3-4 hours of practice every other day vs 12 hours of practice everyday) this alone gave him 1 wcs chamionship and 2x wcs semifinals and for the last month or so he has been practicing in Korea. Im not saying it will change anything, but Im pretty sure there is a good chance for that.
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On October 11 2017 12:59 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. You think Gumiho is below TY? Maybe TY has done something in some small online tournament lately, but as I don't pay attention to those, my last memory of him is failing to qualify for the super tournament.
TY doesn't play in small online tournaments. He only plays in the big events, and when he does normally performs well. That's why people rank him highly despite not seeing him for a while.
Gumiho has done nothing impressive since he won GSL. I don't think he's even beaten a single zerg since then (?). He does play in online cups though, and has been losing a lot to foreigners lately. He's by far the weakest korean on paper going into blizzcon
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Even bis GSL wasnt impressive, just some builds + against chokers in ro8 and 4.
He is far behind TY and INno.
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On October 11 2017 20:23 Kafka777 wrote:Show nested quote +Actually, I'm not sure it is his worst matchup.
Looking solely at his versus Korean results just in 2017, his vP and vT matchups are relatively similar, and his vZ matchup is his worst matchup by far. Of course, this is inflated by him beating up on Keen and aLive, and he's only played 44 maps total against Korean Terrans (online and offline).
This lines up with his results against foreigners, with his vP and vT having similar (if inflated) results with his vZ being his worst matchup by a large margin. Does not make much sense to look at historical results as Elazer has only started to play full time pro in June 2017 (thats like 3-4 hours of practice every other day vs 12 hours of practice everyday) this alone gave him 1 wcs chamionship and 2x wcs semifinals and for the last month or so he has been practicing in Korea. Im not saying it will change anything, but Im pretty sure there is a good chance for that.
Just because you practice more doesn't mean that your favourite/least favourite matchups will change. If anything, it means your results will be better overall.
For instance, before Neeb went full time into Starcraft, he was already a beast in PvP, and he ended winning KeSPA Cup off the back of it.
Additionally, PvT has been his weakest matchup for A long time, and it didn't change (from being his worst matchup) when he went to Korea.
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Canada8987 Posts
16. Kelazhur
15. True
14. Special
13. Nerchio
12. Gumiho
11. Snute
10. Seral
9. SoO
8. Elazer (he's been looking super good lately)
7. Neeb
6. TY
5. herO
4. Rogue
3. Dark
2. Stats
1. INnovation
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On October 12 2017 00:12 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 20:23 Kafka777 wrote:Actually, I'm not sure it is his worst matchup.
Looking solely at his versus Korean results just in 2017, his vP and vT matchups are relatively similar, and his vZ matchup is his worst matchup by far. Of course, this is inflated by him beating up on Keen and aLive, and he's only played 44 maps total against Korean Terrans (online and offline).
This lines up with his results against foreigners, with his vP and vT having similar (if inflated) results with his vZ being his worst matchup by a large margin. Does not make much sense to look at historical results as Elazer has only started to play full time pro in June 2017 (thats like 3-4 hours of practice every other day vs 12 hours of practice everyday) this alone gave him 1 wcs chamionship and 2x wcs semifinals and for the last month or so he has been practicing in Korea. Im not saying it will change anything, but Im pretty sure there is a good chance for that. Just because you practice more doesn't mean that your favourite/least favourite matchups will change. If anything, it means your results will be better overall. For instance, before Neeb went full time into Starcraft, he was already a beast in PvP, and he ended winning KeSPA Cup off the back of it. Additionally, PvT has been his weakest matchup for A long time, and it didn't change (from being his worst matchup) when he went to Korea.
While this might have changed, before GSL Elazer mentioned that in practice and on ladder he had a terrible win rate against terran but was doing well in ZvZ. I think one of the Koreans said something to the same effect.
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On October 12 2017 02:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 00:12 FrkFrJss wrote:On October 11 2017 20:23 Kafka777 wrote:Actually, I'm not sure it is his worst matchup.
Looking solely at his versus Korean results just in 2017, his vP and vT matchups are relatively similar, and his vZ matchup is his worst matchup by far. Of course, this is inflated by him beating up on Keen and aLive, and he's only played 44 maps total against Korean Terrans (online and offline).
This lines up with his results against foreigners, with his vP and vT having similar (if inflated) results with his vZ being his worst matchup by a large margin. Does not make much sense to look at historical results as Elazer has only started to play full time pro in June 2017 (thats like 3-4 hours of practice every other day vs 12 hours of practice everyday) this alone gave him 1 wcs chamionship and 2x wcs semifinals and for the last month or so he has been practicing in Korea. Im not saying it will change anything, but Im pretty sure there is a good chance for that. Just because you practice more doesn't mean that your favourite/least favourite matchups will change. If anything, it means your results will be better overall. For instance, before Neeb went full time into Starcraft, he was already a beast in PvP, and he ended winning KeSPA Cup off the back of it. Additionally, PvT has been his weakest matchup for A long time, and it didn't change (from being his worst matchup) when he went to Korea. While this might have changed, before GSL Elazer mentioned that in practice and on ladder he had a terrible win rate against terran but was doing well in ZvZ. I think one of the Koreans said something to the same effect.
That's fair....though sometimes players claim to be good or bad in a matchup and then perform the opposite in tournaments.
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On October 11 2017 22:19 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 12:59 Boggyb wrote:On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. You think Gumiho is below TY? Maybe TY has done something in some small online tournament lately, but as I don't pay attention to those, my last memory of him is failing to qualify for the super tournament. TY doesn't play in small online tournaments.
He actually started doing it this week.
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On October 12 2017 02:17 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 22:19 Fango wrote:On October 11 2017 12:59 Boggyb wrote:On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. You think Gumiho is below TY? Maybe TY has done something in some small online tournament lately, but as I don't pay attention to those, my last memory of him is failing to qualify for the super tournament. TY doesn't play in small online tournaments. He actually started doing it this week.
He did? Suprising that he starts doing them now when blizzcon is nearly 2 weeks away haha
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On October 12 2017 03:36 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 02:17 Elentos wrote:On October 11 2017 22:19 Fango wrote:On October 11 2017 12:59 Boggyb wrote:On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. You think Gumiho is below TY? Maybe TY has done something in some small online tournament lately, but as I don't pay attention to those, my last memory of him is failing to qualify for the super tournament. TY doesn't play in small online tournaments. He actually started doing it this week. He did? Suprising that he starts doing them now when blizzcon is nearly 2 weeks away haha
He is doing pretty well in the online cups too, made it all three finals of the ones he played.
Ofc I would always be hesitant to use online form as a predictor, and even moreso now when everyone is undoubtedly focusing on Blizzcon. Presumably they are just using these online cups as a way to hone fundamentals/standard builds.
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Putting True under Special is pretty weird to me, especially considering their form/performances in Montreal.
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On October 12 2017 04:34 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 03:36 Fango wrote:On October 12 2017 02:17 Elentos wrote:On October 11 2017 22:19 Fango wrote:On October 11 2017 12:59 Boggyb wrote:On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. You think Gumiho is below TY? Maybe TY has done something in some small online tournament lately, but as I don't pay attention to those, my last memory of him is failing to qualify for the super tournament. TY doesn't play in small online tournaments. He actually started doing it this week. He did? Suprising that he starts doing them now when blizzcon is nearly 2 weeks away haha He is doing pretty well in the online cups too, made it all three finals of the ones he played. Ofc I would always be hesitant to use online form as a predictor, and even moreso now when everyone is undoubtedly focusing on Blizzcon. Presumably they are just using these online cups as a way to hone fundamentals/standard builds.
They are likely just using online cups as a bit of extra cash, seeing how there aren't any major events until blizzcon. Most of them are probably just playing standard and saving builds for blizzzon anyway, so I wouldn't use the form there as any indicator. Then again, all the top 8 are doing great online right now anyway
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On October 11 2017 04:34 Shuffleblade wrote:
My opinion:
16. Kelazhur
15. TRUE
14. Nerchio
13. Elazer
12. Snute
11 SpeCial
10. Serral
9. Neeb
8. TY
7. Stats
6. soO
5. GuMiho
4. Dark
3. herO
2. Rogue
1. INnoVation
Cheering for Rogue, soO, Serral and Neeb especially =)
Agree almost completely with the list except switch gumiho and ty. Though I kind of expect Neeb to be somewhere above 9th to build excitement.
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The real question is which Koreans will disgrace their country by getting ranked lower than a foreigner.
I'm betting Gumiho gets ranked below Neeb, maybe even below Elazer.
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On October 11 2017 04:34 Shuffleblade wrote:
My opinion:
16. Kelazhur
15. TRUE
14. Nerchio
13. Elazer
12. Snute
11 SpeCial
10. Serral
9. Neeb
8. TY
7. Stats
6. soO
5. GuMiho
4. Dark
3. herO
2. Rogue
1. INnoVation
Cheering for Rogue, soO, Serral and Neeb especially =)
Almost completely agree with this ranking except TY should switch with GuMiho. GuMiho is a great player but kind of underperform since GSL win. Also a bit of inconsistency, one tourney played badly and next day in other tourney, played well again. I hope he will bring his A game at BlizzCon.
Cheer for herO and soO. Non-Korean, cheer for Snute and Nerchio.
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On October 11 2017 04:49 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. herO's results have a clear pattern. Brilliance at quick weekenders (ST1/2, Shangai), but failure at the bigger/longer running events (he did poorly in Katowice, SSL premier, and only made GSL playoffs once). I don't expect anything special from him at blizzcon. And I know I'm bringing my bias up again, but I think Inno beats out Rogue. Yes Rogue beat him 3-2 at ST2, but he basically got 2 free maps against mech (I don't think any terran can beat Rogue with mech tbh). If Inno was smarter and played bio I think he edges out Rogue ever so slightly
That really isn't a clear pattern, herO was eliminated in the group stage of iem katowice which was played over a single day. Also Blizzcon is essentially a weekend tournament with a group stage the week before. If herO is ranked third or lower I don't see how you can argue that would be far higher than it should be based on form, herO's recent online results have been pretty stunning.
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On October 18 2017 06:04 pond97 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 04:49 Fango wrote:On October 11 2017 04:17 pvsnp wrote:On October 11 2017 03:48 Fango wrote:
I predict herO and Gumiho will be ranked far higher than they should be. Also that Rogue will be ranked number 1 when it should be Inno herO I think has a good case for best Protoss atm, gvien his performance at the Super Tournament. Gumiho has been pretty unimpressive recently, I'd say he's probably the weakest Korean at Blizzcon. Rogue and Inno are very evenly matched, I could see either one as #1. herO's results have a clear pattern. Brilliance at quick weekenders (ST1/2, Shangai), but failure at the bigger/longer running events (he did poorly in Katowice, SSL premier, and only made GSL playoffs once). I don't expect anything special from him at blizzcon. And I know I'm bringing my bias up again, but I think Inno beats out Rogue. Yes Rogue beat him 3-2 at ST2, but he basically got 2 free maps against mech (I don't think any terran can beat Rogue with mech tbh). If Inno was smarter and played bio I think he edges out Rogue ever so slightly That really isn't a clear pattern, herO was eliminated in the group stage of iem katowice which was played over a single day. Also Blizzcon is essentially a weekend tournament with a group stage the week before. If herO is ranked third or lower I don't see how you can argue that would be far higher than it should be based on form, herO's recent online results have been pretty stunning.
Doing poorly in almost all the starleagues and then amazing in almost every weekender is a clear pattern. Obviously you can find exceptions but it holds true for most events
Now although Blizzcon is technically a weekender, if you look at the actual time between matches it's quite long. Until you reach the ro4 you get more time to prepare than you might in GSL for example.
You get several weeks to prepare for the first group, and even that is played out over three days (even in starleagues you don't get days between group stage matches). Then for the ro8 you get another week as well.
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Whoa... Rogue ranked No. 2 ahead of Stats and Dark? He just won 2 non-Starleague tournaments and he is ranked this high? I'm looking forward to see the reason behind this as soon as his story comes out. He was just so inconsistent at the beginning and middle of 2017 for him to be ranked this high. My guts also tell me he will not survive Group D of WCS Global Playoffs. =)
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On October 23 2017 23:33 ARnisPH wrote:
Whoa... Rogue ranked No. 2 ahead of Stats and Dark? He just won 2 non-Starleague tournaments and he is ranked this high? I'm looking forward to see the reason behind this as soon as his story comes out. He was just so inconsistent at the beginning and middle of 2017 for him to be ranked this high. My guts also tell me he will not survive Group D of WCS Global Playoffs. =)
Rogue must be very glad that he is in Group C, then.
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#1 INnoVation and #2 Rogue
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EPT
