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Poland424 Posts
There is new Community update on battle.net:
Hey everyone. We’ve been seeing your feedback on the forums and elsewhere over the past few weeks and wanted to make an effort this week to provide more insight into our thoughts. These thoughts range from less discussed units like the Colossus, to more common topics like Reapers and Mech. In all of this, we’re making an effort to be conservative with making changes in an effort to bring greater stability to promote mastery. With that in mind, let’s discuss these topics.
Reaper
Recently, we’ve been receiving feedback regarding Reapers openings. We have some changes we’d like to test, but before we get to them we want to clarify what our intended role for the Reaper should be. Reapers should be good for scouting, and through tactical use of their KD8 charge be a viable but risky rush opener when made in large quantities. However, in the TvZ matchup we are seeing numerous Reapers being used as a general opener that has a bit too clean of a transition to normal play for Terrans. While this strategy requires a lot of skill to execute perfectly, we think that amassing larger numbers of Reapers is too safe for how much threat they pose.
Currently, we are thinking of the following possible options:
- Increase the Reaper’s cost to 75 minerals / 50 Vespene gas. This would make it harder for the Reaper user to transition into a normal game after a Reaper rush.
- Reduce the Reaper’s KD8 Charge damage from 10 to 5. This is a direct nerf to the damage output of Reapers, especially to small and fragile units like Zerglings.
- Adjusting the Reaper’s Combat Drugs so that it would also not heal if the Reaper recently attacked. This would result in Reapers being more fragile in long running fights with an opponent which could encourage a Reaper user to back off and let them heal to full more often.
We are planning to implement Reaper changes during the period between IEM Season XII – Shanghai and GSL vs. the World.
Terran Mech
Recently at high levels in Korea we have been seeing a relatively new form of mech play appearing in TvZ and performing well. We would like to continue to observe how it continues to play out first before stepping in and making changes here. This includes keeping an eye on its historic predator, the Swarm Host. Currently it has not been as effective in the Korean scene as elsewhere so we are wondering if there are regional differences in meta at play here.
Raven
Mass Raven strategies have shown up infrequently in high level play. However, we believe the playstyle of mass Raven could be problematic for ladder level play. We are currently thinking of increasing its supply count from 2 to 3, which would bring it in line with other tech air units like the Banshee and Viper. This should have limited impact at professional levels of play and when using smaller counts of Ravens, while making mass Raven style easier to counter.
Colossus
In high level play we have not been seeing much Colossus use, even in situations where it seems like the Colossus should be viable. We think this is partially due to the Colossus not having a sharp enough identity, so we want to explore changing the Colossus from a general purpose splash damage unit into an anti-light splash damage unit.
Our current thinking is to change its weapon from doing 12 damage flat to 10 + 5 light.
Ideally this would also make the differences between Protoss’s splash damage options more clear. Disruptors have high burst damage and work especially well vs low mobility units, the Colossus is good for sustained damage vs light enemies, and High Templars are a more general purpose splash damage role.
This change would likely impact the current pro-level PvZ and PvT metas which involves heavy Hydralisk/Zergling and Marine usage respectively. While we want to give Protoss a new option, we don’t want Colossi to be the only build choice so we will have to be careful with this change.
Please feel free to let us know your thoughts on these topics and provide any feedback on the proposed changes.
Original link : https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20757617408
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Please don't buff the Colossus... I don't want to see 3 base turtle into deathball again please  (
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A day late and a dollar short. These are the correct fixes, but they should have happened many months ago.
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The change of the colossus is a buff and a nerf.
Units like lurkers Ultras, Marauder and some others will be better against it while marines hydras and lings will be worse.
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I'd say change the grenades to do 0 damage so they're only used defensively (to get away)
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Colossus needs a buff but im guessing it will only impact PvZ because colossus will be even worse vs Marauders.
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They said that they don't mind mass reaper openers. They only want to make it a more risky opener so that the terran has problems transitioning out of it, so 0 damage for the granades will make these openers completely not viable (not even a risk)..
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I'm surprised that they talk about the reaper without acknowledging the fact that like half the GSL/SSL level TvT's we've been seeing recently involved at least one player proxying reapers.
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On July 13 2017 08:04 Zaros wrote:
Colossus needs a buff but im guessing it will only impact PvZ because colossus will be even worse vs Marauders.
but if they make it 12+3 vs light it would be fine
and make thermal lance cost higher/research longer in addition with +2 range +20% attack speed
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Most of this looks reasonable.
But Colossus changes are sketchy. Banelings aren't Light and Marines already melt to Colossi. 10 (+5 Light) seems to push them down the wrong path.
Also would love to see a Ghost cost reduction, perhaps 150/100. I almost never see Ghosts in professional play. Fixing Steady Targeting to not waste energy when interrupted would be another great change.
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I really appreciate the Raven and Reaper change proposed. Hope that they'd go on and tone down the SH too.
Even the Colossus "buff" seems reasonable.
Good update overall
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I think specifically for the reaper changes, they absolutely need pros to test them thoroughly to see which one is the most suitable.
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There's literally under 10 players actually doing well with reaper openings. I'd complain, but I don't see it affecting the rest of us that much honestly.
The raven was the answer to the super late-game Zerg tech. Increasing the supply to 3 isn't too bad, but there might be needed changes to Terrans other answers vs late-game Zerg, like ghosts.
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On July 13 2017 08:27 Myrddrael wrote:
There's literally under 10 players actually doing well with reaper openings. I'd complain, but I don't see it affecting the rest of us that much honestly.
The raven was the answer to the super late-game Zerg tech. Increasing the supply to 3 isn't too bad, but there might be needed changes to Terrans other answers vs late-game Zerg, like ghosts.
I mean reaper builds happen in TvT a lot as well, something should change..
Personally i would rather see a complete redesign of the raven and how spellcasting works in sc2. I said it a million times already, but all these changes to spellcasters are basically bandaid fixes which don't address the real problem (that mass spellcasting is too easy to execute)
One way to stop this is to make spells less effective on their own, but then you also nerf single spellcaster usage. I would prefer a way to nerf mass spellcasters only. Changing the supply is a way i guess, but i don't think it's really enough in general.
On July 13 2017 08:13 pvsnp wrote:
Most of this looks reasonable.
But Colossus changes are sketchy. Banelings aren't Light and Marines already melt to Colossi. 10 (+5 Light) seems to push them down the wrong path.
Same thing, a redesign to the colossus would be needed. A lot of it is "do i have enough anti air units like vikings or vipers for zerg". The interactions a colossus creates are uninspiring.
Exactly why i think all this balance talk should only happen if we are actually fine with the basic interactions.
About the update: Well at least we are talking about reapers finally, so good one 
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I assumed the reaper would never get changed. I think the changes looked great until colossus. Just delete that unit, such a boring unit.
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i actually do like the colossus and i don't mind it being brought back into more viability, but i worry about pvz. right now hydra bane vs immortal archon is in a weird place, because the balance is good but there are a lot of ways an engagement can quickly get messy and snowball for either side depending on when the high HP units start dying. if colossus becomes a stable long-range damage output that allows protoss to better control the shape of pvz engagements we could see protoss ground armies dominating in macro games, which could lead to a meta where zerg relies more heavily on gimmicky plays like ling/bane drop allins, swarm hosts, surprise mutas, etc., which leads back to where pvz was for a long time during heart of the swarm
i'm not suggesting that hydra/bane isn't really strong right now (it is), but it's also really popular because it's tough to go into the lategame against protoss without hitting a specific timing like broodlords before tempests. with proxy double robo immortal suddenly looking really strong against terran, maybe the colossus buff could be mixed with a slight immortal nerf? people complained a lot about colossus in HOTS, but i think it's a better design than the immortal
more random thoughts on the colossus - it might be cool if the attack fired slower and hit a wider area but did less DPS, so target fire and counter-splitting would matter more. or maybe a damage point delay?
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Surprisingly well-thought out changes. I like them all really, especially reapers and raven changes.
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The moment the collosus are the go to for the Protoss in a PvZ it will bring lurkers back into the game as the current way of countering lurkers is mass immortals. With robos you must choose whether you go immortals or collosus. Disruptors are available, but a zerg can switch back into ling bane, so it will turn into tech switches which both sides can do.
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In high level play we have not been seeing much Colossus use
wait... what? don't they watch any PvTs?
Collossi are built almost every game.
The reaper HP nerf is terrible, huge nerf to standard reaper openers.
The grenade is the problem so just nerf the grenade.
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bet avilo was angry at the raven change
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
