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Community Feedback Update - July 12 - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
292 CommentsPost a Reply
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Gheizen64
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy2077 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-13 07:00:02
July 13 2017 06:56 GMT
#41
Colossi being more counterable (weaker vs certain units) would make it a more interesting unit and would make massing it more risky as it'd be more counterable by other units. Could become a bit too good vs terrans though, but w/e
Seen as G.ZZZ [COPPER SCUM] on Steam
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-13 07:51:53
July 13 2017 07:26 GMT
#42
I agree with all the changes.

The only thing missing is a Swarm Hosts price increase and a Carrier DPS nerf.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
July 13 2017 07:52 GMT
#43
please leave collossi alone, they are in a VERY good spot right now
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
SlammerSC2
Profile Joined April 2013
77 Posts
July 13 2017 08:38 GMT
#44
Correct move for the Reaper is to simply remove the KD8 charge ability
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-13 08:52:19
July 13 2017 08:51 GMT
#45
I'd like to see a slight redesign to the colossus make it a slight damage over time affect by setting the ground on fire for 2 or 3 seconds. So 12 initial damage + 3 for every after second you sit in the fire with a slower fire-rate maybe? Something to that affect would make it more interesting I think.
Gheizen64
Profile Joined June 2010
Italy2077 Posts
July 13 2017 09:01 GMT
#46
Or make the laser like half as fast as it is now so microing in/out of it is possible.

I wouldn't mind seeing 10+4 vs light though.
Seen as G.ZZZ [COPPER SCUM] on Steam
zyce
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States649 Posts
July 13 2017 09:27 GMT
#47
Resetting Reaper regen while attacking is a good change. Colossus change is short-sighted, baneling HP and armored units are the problem for them, not marines or other light units.

I think something should be done to address the ~42-43% winrates in both PvT and PvZ currently, hopefully the maps will accomplish this but I have my doubts. I don't understand their statement about Swarm Hosts.
Beauty is not the goal of competitive sports, but high-level sports are a prime venue for the expression of human beauty. The relation is roughly that of courage to war.
QuinnTheEskimo
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Germany55 Posts
July 13 2017 09:41 GMT
#48
This is utter bullshit, actually.

After the recent buffs, there is no objective reason for Z to not go mass Hydra or even to transition out of it. This makes Z dumb.

Protoss has to build their entire strategy around the Adept in every phase of the game, or face a massive disadvantage, except for mass carriers of course. This makes P dumb.

Everything that is not Marine Marauder Medivac (and Thor) keeps getting nerfed. This makes T dumb. (Ironically, I still agree with the most recent announcements of T nerfs.)

LOTV has been a complete failure and they are not addressing any of it. They just tweak stats until there are equal win rates "at the top level". Whatever that means. It's a stupid metric for measuring game quality. I guess they will keep nerfing T into oblivion. Then, they increase the damage of widow mines to that of nukes to equal out win rates, and call it a well thought out plan and a great state of the game. If the game is stupid to play, then nobody cares about any win rates. Haven't the last months been enough empiric proof of that?
You've got to go apeshit. -- Day[9]
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
July 13 2017 09:54 GMT
#49
There was no Zerg winning a major tournament since the 3.8 balance change, and for some reason people claim its the strongest race.

Protoss won major tournaments (GSL, Austin, Jönköping).
Terran won major tournaments (IEM 1, IEM 2, GSL, we can count the SSL1 here as well), and all these were won by different Terrans with different play styles.

Zerg won... hmmm... Nothing!
Yeah, some second places, but even in the foreign scene where the zerg is a way more popular race nothing major has been won by a zerg player. (We'll see about Valencia)

Terran has the best late game, but its the hardest one to control out of the 3. So even not that many pros use it, but Terran has a lot of potential so I don't understand where does all this Terran whine come from.
Aggression1
Profile Joined July 2014
Denmark16 Posts
July 13 2017 10:03 GMT
#50
As a Terran, I'm all for nerfing Reaper strength. I don't think increasing the cost is the answer though. I think it's important for Blizzard to investigate why Terrans are doing 3rax Reaper builds. If you control it well, it's the safest way to get in a good position for the macro game, as it allows you to stop the Zerg from droning too heavily, while you get your infrastructure up and running. If you're doing another pressure build than 3rax Reaper, it's very high risk in comparison, so you might end up doing damage to yourself while trying to do damage to the Zerg.

As for the proposed colossus change, all I have to say is..what? I'm not sure which games the balance team is watching but I see colossus being used in PvT almost every tournament game, and on the ladder as well. Even if colossus play wasn't prevalent, I don't see the point of buffing it, as it is already very strong.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-13 10:13:54
July 13 2017 10:07 GMT
#51
Colo is fine, as is mech. But remove grenade altogether please. The raven change would be good.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
July 13 2017 10:09 GMT
#52
On July 13 2017 16:52 Ej_ wrote:
please leave collossi alone, they are in a VERY good spot right now

Probably the best they've ever been in actually
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
July 13 2017 10:10 GMT
#53
Reaper nerf is necessary because of reasons mentioned by balance team. It's not about dmg that reapers do straight but hidden damage. Mass reapers openings force Zerg to spend tones of larva on speedlings or sacrificing eco for tech via going fast Roaches/Ravagers to defend. In the same time Terran transitions easily and happily in whatever he wants. So in the end even if mass reapers don't kill Zerg, the follow up does it or Zerg is so behind that dies in later stage of the game.

Avilo. The difference in mass reapers and Ravager allin is that early Ravagers are full blown allin by definition. If u not kill Terran with it- you're dead and Terran can defend it with scout, fast cyclone and bunkers. It only kill greedy turtle mech like yourself and that's fromvyour bias is coming. And reapers- well its not an allin in any means. Its just pressure opening that auto sets Zerg far behind.

Mass Ravens are cancer and should be changed. Swamrhost nerf could be in olay as soon as Blizzard rebuffs Funghal growth with +armoured bonus and let Infested Terrans benefit from uogrades. Projectile may stay as it creates chances to counterplay more than instant spell.

Collosus change is interesting. Protoss is struggling with BIO a d Hydras. This change is more vs Hydras and lings than Banelings as B can be countered by Forcefields and Archon shield. I would like to see how it play out. Maybe i won't see so many mass OPmortals.
Ultima Ratio Regum
QuinnTheEskimo
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Germany55 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-13 10:31:46
July 13 2017 10:27 GMT
#54
On July 13 2017 19:03 Aggression1 wrote:
As a Terran, I'm all for nerfing Reaper strength. I don't think increasing the cost is the answer though. I think it's important for Blizzard to investigate why Terrans are doing 3rax Reaper builds. If you control it well, it's the safest way to get in a good position for the macro game, as it allows you to stop the Zerg from droning too heavily, while you get your infrastructure up and running. If you're doing another pressure build than 3rax Reaper, it's very high risk in comparison, so you might end up doing damage to yourself while trying to do damage to the Zerg.


IMHO 3 rax reaper is all in. It delays your expansion so much and costs so much gas, it doesn't make sense to use it as an opening for a macro game. Even if you don't lose all your reapers, they become useless very quickly. So you either do critical damage then and there, or you are incredibly behind. Isn't that what "all in" means?

If they really want the reaper to be good but not snowball out of control, they should leave its health and cost alone. Just give each reaper 3 KD8 charges as it spawns and that's it; no refill. It will leave its ability to be annoying early game. Even be good at 1-2 close encounters but no more snowballing.
You've got to go apeshit. -- Day[9]
WidowMineHero
Profile Joined September 2014
New Zealand143 Posts
July 13 2017 10:29 GMT
#55
Colossus change good, reaper change good, raven change bad.
"Time won't change anything, I will."
Aggression1
Profile Joined July 2014
Denmark16 Posts
July 13 2017 10:32 GMT
#56
On July 13 2017 19:27 QuinnTheEskimo wrote:

IMHO 3 rax reaper is all in. It delays your expansion so much and costs so much gas, it doesn't make sense to use it as an opening for a macro game. Even if you don't lose all your reapers, they become useless very quickly.


But.. it's not an all-in. Even if your expansion is late, you're forcing the zerg to make units, while you can play greedy at home. Even if the zerg doesn't lose a single drone, their economy is affected heavily by having to defend reapers. It keeps you safe versus lings, roaches and ravagers, and gives you a very easy transition into a macro game.
Couguar
Profile Joined April 2010
Russian Federation54 Posts
July 13 2017 10:33 GMT
#57
as protoss, i dislike proposed colossus change.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7032 Posts
July 13 2017 10:39 GMT
#58
On July 13 2017 08:31 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 13 2017 08:27 Myrddrael wrote:
There's literally under 10 players actually doing well with reaper openings. I'd complain, but I don't see it affecting the rest of us that much honestly.

The raven was the answer to the super late-game Zerg tech. Increasing the supply to 3 isn't too bad, but there might be needed changes to Terrans other answers vs late-game Zerg, like ghosts.

I mean reaper builds happen in TvT a lot as well, something should change..

Personally i would rather see a complete redesign of the raven and how spellcasting works in sc2. I said it a million times already, but all these changes to spellcasters are basically bandaid fixes which don't address the real problem (that mass spellcasting is too easy to execute)
One way to stop this is to make spells less effective on their own, but then you also nerf single spellcaster usage. I would prefer a way to nerf mass spellcasters only. Changing the supply is a way i guess, but i don't think it's really enough in general.

Show nested quote +
On July 13 2017 08:13 pvsnp wrote:
Most of this looks reasonable.

But Colossus changes are sketchy. Banelings aren't Light and Marines already melt to Colossi. 10 (+5 Light) seems to push them down the wrong path.


Same thing, a redesign to the colossus would be needed. A lot of it is "do i have enough anti air units like vikings or vipers for zerg". The interactions a colossus creates are uninspiring.
Exactly why i think all this balance talk should only happen if we are actually fine with the basic interactions.



About the update: Well at least we are talking about reapers finally, so good one

This self-imposed blindness is very typical of Blizzard and is the reason why I don't think these updates have that much real value.

The colossus is weak and doesn't have an identity because they created the disruptor as a replacement for the colossus, as the latter was a failed unit.

The reaper is too strong early game because they created it specifically as an early game unit and stacked it with abilities only useful early on.

The raven is a massable, slow spellcaster that creates free units that benefits a lot from smartcasting.

Of course you can be very clever and create bandaid fixes that prevent all these problems from being noticeable, but it's a constant struggle.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
July 13 2017 10:47 GMT
#59
Just remove the retarded grenade, I swear nobody that's not a blizzard employee, Byun, Maru, Uthermal or Khelazur likes it.
Also not sure what the collossus cahnge is supposed to do. Sometimes they're played, sometimes not. Seems about right to me? ZvP seems like a complete mess, design wise, at the moment so I don't see why they want to make minor changes to a perfectly fine unit.
woodedmicrobe9
Profile Joined October 2014
Finland18 Posts
July 13 2017 10:58 GMT
#60
i love the fact that they are not talking about Ghost
My Life For Special Tactics
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