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beentheredonethat
2934 Posts
* mislynching Koshi after being on the brink of being policied * completely dropping my scumread of disformation after N2 (since I pretended a green check on him) * gaining a lot of towncred during the game * getting (having) Tictock lynch Grack over me although he scumread me all game. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
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LightningStrike
United States14276 Posts
On January 15 2017 05:10 cakepie wrote: Missed this. They were a one-shot per day, one-way PM. They were tied to weather: - fair weather = delivered normally - fog = message delayed by 12 hours - drizzle = minor obfuscation of message (ink+raindrops, bad combination) - breeze = RNG redirect 35% +/-1 and 15% +/-2 offset from intended recipient - downpour = message lost Each person gets a different weather each day by RNG; the weather forecast dictates the RNG probabilities for each weather effect on that day. I don't think one-shot PM is that terribly scum favored. Yes, you're thinking scum can use it to send misleading information out of public eye. But town can also use it to coordinate and share non-public info. It just needs evaluated. The weather put a twist on things but for the most part fog and drizzle effects did not really do much damage. Not everyone used it on D2, and only LS used it on D3 and D4. Of course, that D4 paper plane was game changing >-<;; feelsbadman. Wish GB didn't get it  | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14276 Posts
On January 15 2017 04:10 cakepie wrote: + Show Spoiler + note that I wont any of that against you, as running such a game takes a lot of work and balance is fickle. I kinda think you guys overestimated town/underestimated scum. but tbh this town was pretty crap and that stuff is super hard to predict anways, so whatever. still i am feeling like ranting about a bunch of stuff that i observed/think might be a bit borderline. Was pretty surprised when one of you said he thought chez role would fuck scum over at some point. his role is prolly the only reason he didnt get lynched super early and in a game where town has 0 trust to each other (house of brown) you just give town kp and wathc them kill each other. or themselves. so i am 0 surprised his role was good for scum. but again. this shit is super hard to predict. general observation: i think it is has very low risk to a very high reward for fakeclaiming stuff in themed games. in palmars game iamp was able to get away with convincing town of being anti town 3P. in dota 2 Hoshi nearly rode out the game off having made up a pro town ability. This game btdt was able to convince town of being a 2 shot cop. though tbh its more that he bussed tt2 super hard. in dota 2 it was somewhat easier to determine fake claims since the abilities were kinda tied to roles and a rolecop would be able to somewhat determine if someone was lying. a pity he died n1. I don't know if Chez or BTDT role names would have helped, but for like meacha-cow or the plains dragoon it would be impossible to find out what abilities they had from the name. well. dragoons usually have a horse and a carbine, so you could argue for a vig shot. so not sure how good GB's rolecop ability was. you maybe could argue that town might to try figure that out based on balance, there were some posts about too many prot/investigatives around, but this is a bastard game, so how the fuck are we supposed to know what ideas you guys had. maybe all the investigatives are insane? which is I basically ignored those posts on the grounds of not wanting mechanics at all to figure out this game. on that note I should not have trusted the red check on GB. but I would have checked GB, too. So the check made sense and the result kinda did too. Also would have had to fight Grack over not trusting the red, while trusting my blue on LS. didnt want to do that. so that might have been my bad, not sure though. tldr: i think if i am to run a themed in the future I will probably include 1 town fav. role/mechanic that makes fake claims more risky for scum. I dont want to make it stupid/impossible, as good fake claims are good, but I think in the last 3 games it was low risk very high reward. This one was tackled in depth by me, excerpts follow: I had a couple thoughts too re "balance" We have to keep in mind this format was kind of experimental But I really think it has some nice potential if executed correctly I think selling the troll factor and "bastard" nature of the game was a mistake If ever something like this is done again it should be approached in the mindset of like D&D or tabletop gaming. The hosts are like the game masters and will adjust the gameplay on the fly, to provide interesting stuff, make things more dynamic than just preset roles or preplanned power ups, and just a bit of troll for spice and fun. But the contract should be that we will try to keep balance as much as possible (disclaimer: no promises cuz it's hard to predict what weird unforeseen emergent gameplay might happen) perhaps some limitations on what quackery is allowed/disallowed and what is fair/unfair. NOT what shapelog did going all over the place making a big deal about "anything is possible *trollface* mafia was quite hilarious too. Tragedy of errors on both sides all game long I knew all along that it would be a mechanics-based deepwolf if town got obsessed with roles and mechanics. But he was also quite limited in what he could do. (already discussed above) valid observation. worth thinking about how to compensate for this as hosts, and conversely players should also be more cautious about what they believe. nope. once we got past the SoN1 hump and started flavoring shit properly it was completely useless. We gave scum a useless flavor name cop, lol. GB wasn't rolecop at all. GB had a vanilla cop power that was essentially useless past N1. GB correctly switched to using nanite milke (combat medic) subsequently. GB's bungled N1 role and action claim caused a big ruckus with LS; it was so painful to watch that we eventually fed LS a clue about it. should not have sold it as bastard game. I even mention it could of been GB that you guys gave me a clue on with that hint :o On January 10 2017 22:34 LightningStrike wrote: Good morning I here why not nuke Grack instead of lynching him if you feel like he's scum dis? Also remember my Mace post EoN/ Start of Day? Well I gained some knowledge instead that someone misread or misread understood their role and action as well as misremembered their role. I think that fits Chez real well considering how he claimed Doctor when he's more of an inventor type role with his seeds. Or could be GB considering how stuff went down the last couple of Day phases. Granted I said it could of been Chez too but still lol....... | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
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Grackaroni
United States9832 Posts
You're a traitor. It says so in my role PMs. + Show Spoiler + You are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost of Brown. You are the Leader of a new mafia team, recently arrived in town. You show up as Town-aligned to Cop checks. Your team mates are darthfoley and Tictock. QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/89iWXVWwWMS97 Chezinu is the Traitor. He has been in deep undercover waiting to be contacted upon your arrival. You have a special Ring. This ring may be used to identify yourself to him. To make contact with Chezinu, PM the hosts ##recruit | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
Original Message From Shapelog: Criza Ori Rickir, Operative of the Fallen Butterfly (mafia goon)! Your faithful leader, Monarch, has sent you and your team into the city of Laz, home to the heirs of the Royal King Erisal, known as the savior of the Renaissance war. Your mission is simple, infiltrate and assassinate the heirs. + Show Spoiler [Lore that has no impact on the game] + We were able to get you in via the vast sewer network, however, we will not be able to heavily supply you. Therefore, use your brain and wit. Upon each heirs death, Monarch deems that you will extract a pint of their blood for her uses. No questions asked. Each night, bring it and stash it underneath the Kish, the local landmark of power. However, your assassinations of the heirs should be your top priority. We need them gone so we, the Clan of the Fallen Butterfly, can start phase two of the plan. Many of our bothers exist inside the walls. It might be possible that some of them will help you out during your mission. Others might have been bribe in according of phase 1 (if you were not in the clan during phase 1, We successfully corrupted high officials.) Do not however trust all strangers. Your base of operations are set in a neglected inn know as the Beat and Heckled. There you will find a secret room with all supplies you will need for this operation.(link: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/LiML8FEQaBm) Futhermore, you, Private Chez, are hereby sentence to keeping the mouth of a inside brother of the clan quiet during our mission. You can find him here: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/FD33DtrrLK46C Criza luknoir Bruteo! Come back with valor, or on the back of a butterfly. Oh and btw guys. I came back to play this game cause I wanted to announce that I'm a doctor. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
On January 15 2017 13:00 Grackaroni wrote: Why didn't you saves me Chezinu?!?! You're a traitor. It says so in my role PMs. + Show Spoiler + You are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost of Brown. You are the Leader of a new mafia team, recently arrived in town. You show up as Town-aligned to Cop checks. Your team mates are darthfoley and Tictock. QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/89iWXVWwWMS97 Chezinu is the Traitor. He has been in deep undercover waiting to be contacted upon your arrival. You have a special Ring. This ring may be used to identify yourself to him. To make contact with Chezinu, PM the hosts ##recruit You have done well as a disciple. You have even exhibited the post game trolls. from the past: + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2013 07:17 Chezinu wrote: Oh btw, My role PM: TOLD YOU GUYS I WAS ALREADY DEAD!!! | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9832 Posts
On January 15 2017 13:10 Chezinu wrote: You have done well as a disciple. You have even exhibited the post game trolls. from the past: + Show Spoiler + On July 21 2013 07:17 Chezinu wrote: Oh btw, My role PM: TOLD YOU GUYS I WAS ALREADY DEAD!!! Your argument has persuaded me. | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14276 Posts
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cakepie
985 Posts
On January 15 2017 06:32 Koshi wrote: You people call it a bastard game but it was a really well balanced and fun game. The only bastard part was the obspolls that kinda made it a bit interesting. But town needed it. I beg to differ, the Ouija polls were intended to be balanced around an even mix of 20% scum fabricated result 20% (live+dead) scum votes 30% dead town votes 10% obs votes 20% host votes (which we used for troll and anti-swing) However, in practice: In the first poll, scum team completely missed the fact that they had both a fabricated result to send as well as actual votes -- which should hint to them quite clearly that some kind of mixture of results is going to happen. So btdt only submitted a (poorly) manipulated 3,2,1,2,3 result and none of the scum voted. The results turned out to be combination of 25% scum fabricated result 37.5% Koshi 12.5% HtS 25% hosts In the second poll, scum team failed to send a fabricated result, and only chez sent in a vote. Also there was no obs participation, and deadchat just sheeped Koshi. The results were combination of 28.57% Chez 42.86% Koshi and co. 28.57% hosts tl;dr: On January 14 2017 10:13 beentheredonethat wrote: we even failed to manipulate the uija board. Actual polling figures are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_iy532vaAVXG73tdb9LfOzx1JA_gek1mGZjTrDbCZCA On January 15 2017 06:32 Koshi wrote: What I want to say it that due to saying it is a "bastard" game you did yourself short because it was in a way equal to for example Palmar his game last time. That game was even way flashier. That's what I said in #3389 -- we should not have promoted/sold this game as "bastard" -- it really wasn't, but we made a big deal out of it in pregame to grab attention. In hindsight this was not a good idea since it undermined the ability of players to reason about the game. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
Normally, a good tactic would be to focus on votes and compare to what people say. And watch for drastic changes in people's opinion of people right before a lynch ends. See who the dead mafia talked about the least. Support pressure voting to get lazy/inactive townies to play to win. Sometimes they need pressure. Study people's meta if they have a readable meta... Focus on those who you think are town and have a past history of being right. When you are leaning a certain way and someone you trust does too. It is a good indication you are going the right way (I use to do this all the time with players like Ver, BC, koshi, vivax..etc). I wouldn't always speak it in the thread, but I would be watching as I trolled. My votes would show my true colors. Oh course, when I'm mafia. I try to counter almost all of these. Which lives us to know your audience or players. Know your serious players, troll players, casual, prone to inactivity.. Playing mafia requires a multi-facet approach. Both Town and Mafia must fight to resist a lynch unless your town and want to prevent a potential blue from getting lynch. The nature of this game made it easy for mafia to expound on people's false beliefs about the game (there are no mafia) or to make them believe in the see (have a mafia inventor and time traveling message). I would not hold this game as a true assessment of your skills. This game was not born in matrimony. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On January 15 2017 05:42 disformation wrote: But i couldnt figure out how to use them at all and scum got me hard with that. so might be biased. =p e.g. you could secretly attempt to disclose to a strong townread that you have a certain item, and ask for their opinion on stuff. e.g. "I have a oneshot vig, who would you suggest we vig" and then the other person could respond in thread with vague suggestions of who needs shot, without tipping scum off to the fact that you have vig (which would reduces chances of vig being blocked) basically like what btdt did if not for the fact that he faked it. | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14276 Posts
On January 15 2017 13:33 Chezinu wrote: Not directed to you per say, but here are good starts for town play in general when analyzing the game: Normally, a good tactic would be to focus on votes and compare to what people say. And watch for drastic changes in people's opinion of people right before a lynch ends. See who the dead mafia talked about the least. Support pressure voting to get lazy/inactive townies to play to win. Sometimes they need pressure. Study people's meta if they have a readable meta... Focus on those who you think are town and have a past history of being right. When you are leaning a certain way and someone you trust does too. It is a good indication you are going the right way (I use to do this all the time with players like Ver, BC, koshi, vivax..etc). I wouldn't always speak it in the thread, but I would be watching as I trolled. My votes would show my true colors. Oh course, when I'm mafia. I try to counter almost all of these. Which lives us to know your audience or players. Know your serious players, troll players, casual, prone to inactivity.. Playing mafia requires a multi-facet approach. Both Town and Mafia must fight to resist a lynch unless your town and want to prevent a potential blue from getting lynch. The nature of this game made it easy for mafia to expound on people's false beliefs about the game (there are no mafia) or to make them believe in the see (have a mafia inventor and time traveling message). I would not hold this game as a true assessment of your skills. This game was not born in matrimony. Okay fair enough. I will try to use your advice in my next game. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On January 15 2017 13:08 Chezinu wrote: Oh and btw guys. I came back to play this game cause I wanted to announce that I'm a doctor. You mean for realsies? If so, grats! | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
On January 15 2017 07:46 disformation wrote: Yo the TT2 bus was super sick. Wiped off the suspicions I had completely. On January 15 2017 07:16 beentheredonethat wrote: I felt kinda bad for TiTr. [....] I completely ignored my team and played in a way a 3p antitown might play maybe. Basically, I was fine with sacrificing every single team member if only I survived. 56 Time Traveler 01-04-2017 06:46 PM ET (US) I DONT WANT TO DIE. 57 Time Traveler 01-04-2017 06:51 PM ET (US) Your continous and desperate attempts to lynch me are rather annoying. 58 beentheredonethat 01-04-2017 06:56 PM ET (US) I'm sorry. Vote ExO, I can't.  | ||
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darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
On January 15 2017 13:33 Chezinu wrote: Not directed to you per say, but here are good starts for town play in general when analyzing the game: Normally, a good tactic would be to focus on votes and compare to what people say. And watch for drastic changes in people's opinion of people right before a lynch ends. See who the dead mafia talked about the least. Support pressure voting to get lazy/inactive townies to play to win. Sometimes they need pressure. Study people's meta if they have a readable meta... Focus on those who you think are town and have a past history of being right. When you are leaning a certain way and someone you trust does too. It is a good indication you are going the right way (I use to do this all the time with players like Ver, BC, koshi, vivax..etc). I wouldn't always speak it in the thread, but I would be watching as I trolled. My votes would show my true colors. Oh course, when I'm mafia. I try to counter almost all of these. Which lives us to know your audience or players. Know your serious players, troll players, casual, prone to inactivity.. Playing mafia requires a multi-facet approach. Both Town and Mafia must fight to resist a lynch unless your town and want to prevent a potential blue from getting lynch. The nature of this game made it easy for mafia to expound on people's false beliefs about the game (there are no mafia) or to make them believe in the see (have a mafia inventor and time traveling message). I would not hold this game as a true assessment of your skills. This game was not born in matrimony. wtf is this logical progression of thoughts from the ever wise Chezinu? I don't think i've ever seen such clear points from you | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
Phd. Got it two month ago. Had dream of Roleclaiming doctor in the thread. Was waiting for game to roleclaim in. Now everyone can call me Dr. Chez, if yall want. Oh geez.. that's a scary thought... Perhaps scarier than Mi'lord. FYI, I played TL Mafia throughout all of college. It was good ti have this to think about during tedious research. TY for the emotional support guys! Seriously, the community help me during the lonely parts of my projects. Sometimes I just talked to myself when no one was around the TL Mafia IRC or community thread, but this site made those self-conversationd possible knowing someone was out reading it. I like to thanks all my smurfs for talking with me. Thank you *bows* | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
On January 15 2017 14:20 darthfoley wrote: wtf is this logical progression of thoughts from the ever wise Chezinu? I don't think i've ever seen such clear points from you The intentional poor grammar is still leaking through those sentences. He isn't completely out of character there. However, I must agree that this is a significant improvementioned. Perhaps, we should pressure vote him in the future to make him post logically. I know people use to do this years ago with success. | ||
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Chezinu
United States7429 Posts
On January 15 2017 14:20 darthfoley wrote: wtf is this logical progression of thoughts from the ever wise Chezinu? I don't think i've ever seen such clear points from you There is one greater than I from which I have learned. + Show Spoiler + John 16 6Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.” 17At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.” 19Jesus saw that they wanted to ask him about this, so he said to them, “Are you asking one another what I meant when I said, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me’? 20Very truly I tell you, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices. You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy. 21A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world. 22So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy. 23In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete. 25“Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. 26In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf. 27No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. 28I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.” 29Then Jesus’ disciples said, “Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. 30Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God | ||
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