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On January 07 2017 05:30 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:17 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 05:11 darthfoley wrote:
Calix do you have experience with Kelsier and/or do you have a read on him currently? No and not really aside from what I pointed out earlier re: town reads which we've discussed. Waiting to see what he does next. While I'm here, why do you differentiate between noobs and vets in your posts? That's popping up a fair bit in your posts. Your point on Boston isn't terrible. Because I have a experience with Grack, btdt and Onegu so their posts should orient the game in my mind better. Why thank you!
I see, I see.
What did you get out of kmatt's post in terms of how you read him? There's definitely a lot to discuss there :D
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On January 07 2017 04:57 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this On January 06 2017 15:32 B0stonSC wrote:
The hell is a zj? And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small]. Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand. 1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't? 2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important. 3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons? 4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative? 5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging. 6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game). Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on.
To preface, the majority of these are gut reads. I probably should have said that first. With how little context I applied to those posts I thought that was assumed.
1) ME came back and at least acknowledged the situation at hand. Still not town but he's at least in the thread, which is more than can be said for a few people. What stuck out with Boston is dropping his vote right away and insisting Grack is scum. If he used that as pressure or a segway into questioning Grack's posts I could get but as soon as he makes that call it's radio silence. Then a little shitpost to remind us how despite not doing anything practical he's still watching the thread.
2) I don't personally scumread Grack, but I can see why Kelsier does. However, were it me in his position (that is to say, scumreading Grack for the same reasons) it wouldn't be a strong enough read to conclude anything. I don't, however, expect Kelsier to play out the game as I would, and I'm aware that people have different D1 strategies, so I'm willing to leave it at that.
3) KSC is more of a gut read. There aren't any major lines of questioning or conclusion I can point to to say "this is why he's town" but the acceptable amount of activity agrees with my gut enough to work with. Specifically that he has a scumread and isn't afraid to show it. You and DF both respond to people's posts, but you never seem to come out with anything other than that you "like" or "dislike" a specific post. I can understand reserving judgement on some people but you can't stay neutral on everyone in the game for much longer.
4) In this case, yes I do.
5) Deal w/ it. One scumread is good enough for me D1, since I only have one vote to use. No point making excess calls.
6) I could push my own reads but between my scumreads being mainly afk and the town quieting down I don't have much to ask. It's not that I won't act unless someone "says something silly", but from nearly every game I've played/watched, the D1 lynch comes down to someone saying something dumb and getting ML'd for it. So far I've either been the one who shoots themselves in the foot or points out the bloody foot. Crazy as it may sound I'm going to avoid actively creating or becoming a mislynch if I can help it.
Yeah my initiative has been weak but like I said above I've not a lot to ask right now. I did try to fish some reads out of DF which kind of worked.
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On January 07 2017 05:32 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:30 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 05:17 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 05:11 darthfoley wrote:
Calix do you have experience with Kelsier and/or do you have a read on him currently? No and not really aside from what I pointed out earlier re: town reads which we've discussed. Waiting to see what he does next. While I'm here, why do you differentiate between noobs and vets in your posts? That's popping up a fair bit in your posts. Your point on Boston isn't terrible. Because I have a experience with Grack, btdt and Onegu so their posts should orient the game in my mind better. Why thank you! I see, I see. What did you get out of kmatt's post in terms of how you read him? There's definitely a lot to discuss there :D
I want to see how he responds to your first three points/questions
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On January 07 2017 05:08 darthfoley wrote:
I question how closely you've read my posts if you think I don't have any reads. I'm townleaning SW and I like Calix's recent posts. I need more time to figure out Vivax and ika, but they're at least moving the game forward. I know his filter is small, but I feel like a new person like B0ston would be less likely to throw out a first vote on Onegu if he were scum.
I don't consider "I like/dislike X post" to be a read if it's not followed by "...and therefore [name] is [town/scum]". You can preface it too if you want; I'm not picky.
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On January 07 2017 05:42 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:08 darthfoley wrote:
I question how closely you've read my posts if you think I don't have any reads. I'm townleaning SW and I like Calix's recent posts. I need more time to figure out Vivax and ika, but they're at least moving the game forward. I know his filter is small, but I feel like a new person like B0ston would be less likely to throw out a first vote on Onegu if he were scum. I don't consider "I like/dislike X post" to be a read if it's not followed by "...and therefore [name] is [town/scum]". You can preface it too if you want; I'm not picky.
On January 07 2017 02:46 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 02:36 Vivax wrote:On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack And yours? Of the three of you, I liked SW's responses the best. They seem natural and attentive without being scared of making conclusions. I am town reading her I understand your initial questioning, but I don't like how you play semantics over the B0ston thing. Your first sentence is clearly more than a read imo Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. It's understandable why people think you're answering for him, indirectly with the "I guess" qualifier. So I don't like that you deflected and then kind of pulled an "OMGUS, the questions I got weren't up to my liking!"
That was before your question
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On January 07 2017 05:39 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 04:57 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this On January 06 2017 15:32 B0stonSC wrote:
The hell is a zj? And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small]. Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand. 1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't? 2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important. 3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons? 4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative? 5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging. 6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game). Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on. To preface, the majority of these are gut reads. I probably should have said that first. With how little context I applied to those posts I thought that was assumed. 1) ME came back and at least acknowledged the situation at hand. Still not town but he's at least in the thread, which is more than can be said for a few people. What stuck out with Boston is dropping his vote right away and insisting Grack is scum. If he used that as pressure or a segway into questioning Grack's posts I could get but as soon as he makes that call it's radio silence. Then a little shitpost to remind us how despite not doing anything practical he's still watching the thread. 2) I don't personally scumread Grack, but I can see why Kelsier does. However, were it me in his position (that is to say, scumreading Grack for the same reasons) it wouldn't be a strong enough read to conclude anything. I don't, however, expect Kelsier to play out the game as I would, and I'm aware that people have different D1 strategies, so I'm willing to leave it at that. 3) KSC is more of a gut read. There aren't any major lines of questioning or conclusion I can point to to say "this is why he's town" but the acceptable amount of activity agrees with my gut enough to work with. Specifically that he has a scumread and isn't afraid to show it. You and DF both respond to people's posts, but you never seem to come out with anything other than that you "like" or "dislike" a specific post. I can understand reserving judgement on some people but you can't stay neutral on everyone in the game for much longer. 4) In this case, yes I do. 5) Deal w/ it. One scumread is good enough for me D1, since I only have one vote to use. No point making excess calls. 6) I could push my own reads but between my scumreads being mainly afk and the town quieting down I don't have much to ask. It's not that I won't act unless someone "says something silly", but from nearly every game I've played/watched, the D1 lynch comes down to someone saying something dumb and getting ML'd for it. So far I've either been the one who shoots themselves in the foot or points out the bloody foot. Crazy as it may sound I'm going to avoid actively creating or becoming a mislynch if I can help it. Yeah my initiative has been weak but like I said above I've not a lot to ask right now. I did try to fish some reads out of DF which kind of worked.
That depends on the player re: judging whether reads are gut calls or not.
1. So active-lurking? I kinda like the way you worded your Boston read with the "if he used that as pressure" part because it shows you're thinking about scenarios in some level of depth.
2. Why did you bring in KSC's opinion of Grack in your read? This would make sense if you were town-reading KSC a lot and going "well I think he's being genuine with his Grack read" or something but you're gut-reading KSC as town so that's not applicable.
3. To clarify, when I say I like/ dislike something, that's synonymous with a town/ scum lean.
4. Noted.
5. I wasn't aware that you were the type to just focus on one scum-read at a time. I remember your last game where you were hunting for three players in a 2-mafia save - what changed with regards to your mentality?
6. You don't have to ask stuff unless you want to clarify matters, just state your reads and let the people respond to them. Much better approach than grilling every single player.
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On January 07 2017 05:46 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:42 Kmatt wrote:On January 07 2017 05:08 darthfoley wrote:
I question how closely you've read my posts if you think I don't have any reads. I'm townleaning SW and I like Calix's recent posts. I need more time to figure out Vivax and ika, but they're at least moving the game forward. I know his filter is small, but I feel like a new person like B0ston would be less likely to throw out a first vote on Onegu if he were scum. I don't consider "I like/dislike X post" to be a read if it's not followed by "...and therefore [name] is [town/scum]". You can preface it too if you want; I'm not picky. Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 02:46 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 02:36 Vivax wrote:On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack And yours? Of the three of you, I liked SW's responses the best. They seem natural and attentive without being scared of making conclusions. I am town reading her I understand your initial questioning, but I don't like how you play semantics over the B0ston thing. Your first sentence is clearly more than a read imo On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. It's understandable why people think you're answering for him, indirectly with the "I guess" qualifier. So I don't like that you deflected and then kind of pulled an "OMGUS, the questions I got weren't up to my liking!" That was before your question
Okay fair, I did miss the magic word there.
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On January 07 2017 05:50 Calix wrote:
That depends on the player re: judging whether reads are gut calls or not.
1. So active-lurking? I kinda like the way you worded your Boston read with the "if he used that as pressure" part because it shows you're thinking about scenarios in some level of depth.
2. Why did you bring in KSC's opinion of Grack in your read? This would make sense if you were town-reading KSC a lot and going "well I think he's being genuine with his Grack read" or something but you're gut-reading KSC as town so that's not applicable.
3. To clarify, when I say I like/ dislike something, that's synonymous with a town/ scum lean.
4. Noted.
5. I wasn't aware that you were the type to just focus on one scum-read at a time. I remember your last game where you were hunting for three players in a 2-mafia save - what changed with regards to your mentality?
6. You don't have to ask stuff unless you want to clarify matters, just state your reads and let the people respond to them. Much better approach than grilling every single player.
I have to do something but to answer 5: that was a combination of misreading the OP and having 3 potential scum at the time. I'm not bound to force more reads than I see. Right now I only see one and various degrees of ambiguity. If I had multiple deliberate scumreads I would announce it as well as whichever one is a higher priority.
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On January 07 2017 05:51 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:46 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 05:42 Kmatt wrote:On January 07 2017 05:08 darthfoley wrote:
I question how closely you've read my posts if you think I don't have any reads. I'm townleaning SW and I like Calix's recent posts. I need more time to figure out Vivax and ika, but they're at least moving the game forward. I know his filter is small, but I feel like a new person like B0ston would be less likely to throw out a first vote on Onegu if he were scum. I don't consider "I like/dislike X post" to be a read if it's not followed by "...and therefore [name] is [town/scum]". You can preface it too if you want; I'm not picky. On January 07 2017 02:46 darthfoley wrote:On January 07 2017 02:36 Vivax wrote:On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack And yours? Of the three of you, I liked SW's responses the best. They seem natural and attentive without being scared of making conclusions. I am town reading her I understand your initial questioning, but I don't like how you play semantics over the B0ston thing. Your first sentence is clearly more than a read imo On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. It's understandable why people think you're answering for him, indirectly with the "I guess" qualifier. So I don't like that you deflected and then kind of pulled an "OMGUS, the questions I got weren't up to my liking!" That was before your question Okay fair, I did miss the magic word there.
I forgot to answer your question in terms of who shouldn't be up for lynching at this time: SW, ika, Calix and maybe even you actually
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On January 07 2017 05:56 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:50 Calix wrote:
That depends on the player re: judging whether reads are gut calls or not.
1. So active-lurking? I kinda like the way you worded your Boston read with the "if he used that as pressure" part because it shows you're thinking about scenarios in some level of depth.
2. Why did you bring in KSC's opinion of Grack in your read? This would make sense if you were town-reading KSC a lot and going "well I think he's being genuine with his Grack read" or something but you're gut-reading KSC as town so that's not applicable.
3. To clarify, when I say I like/ dislike something, that's synonymous with a town/ scum lean.
4. Noted.
5. I wasn't aware that you were the type to just focus on one scum-read at a time. I remember your last game where you were hunting for three players in a 2-mafia save - what changed with regards to your mentality?
6. You don't have to ask stuff unless you want to clarify matters, just state your reads and let the people respond to them. Much better approach than grilling every single player. I have to do something but to answer 5: that was a combination of misreading the OP and having 3 potential scum at the time. I'm not bound to force more reads than I see. Right now I only see one and various degrees of ambiguity. If I had multiple deliberate scumreads I would announce it as well as whichever one is a higher priority.
When you say stuff like this, it makes me wonder if I'm even talking to the same person as last game. Pretty annoying since I now can't compare your play with previous games with much confidence.
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On January 07 2017 05:39 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 04:57 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this On January 06 2017 15:32 B0stonSC wrote:
The hell is a zj? And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small]. Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand. 1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't? 2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important. 3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons? 4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative? 5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging. 6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game). Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on. To preface, the majority of these are gut reads. I probably should have said that first. With how little context I applied to those posts I thought that was assumed. 1) ME came back and at least acknowledged the situation at hand. Still not town but he's at least in the thread, which is more than can be said for a few people. What stuck out with Boston is dropping his vote right away and insisting Grack is scum. If he used that as pressure or a segway into questioning Grack's posts I could get but as soon as he makes that call it's radio silence. Then a little shitpost to remind us how despite not doing anything practical he's still watching the thread. 2) I don't personally scumread Grack, but I can see why Kelsier does. However, were it me in his position (that is to say, scumreading Grack for the same reasons) it wouldn't be a strong enough read to conclude anything. I don't, however, expect Kelsier to play out the game as I would, and I'm aware that people have different D1 strategies, so I'm willing to leave it at that. 3) KSC is more of a gut read. There aren't any major lines of questioning or conclusion I can point to to say "this is why he's town" but the acceptable amount of activity agrees with my gut enough to work with. Specifically that he has a scumread and isn't afraid to show it. You and DF both respond to people's posts, but you never seem to come out with anything other than that you "like" or "dislike" a specific post. I can understand reserving judgement on some people but you can't stay neutral on everyone in the game for much longer. 4) In this case, yes I do. 5) Deal w/ it. One scumread is good enough for me D1, since I only have one vote to use. No point making excess calls. 6) I could push my own reads but between my scumreads being mainly afk and the town quieting down I don't have much to ask. It's not that I won't act unless someone "says something silly", but from nearly every game I've played/watched, the D1 lynch comes down to someone saying something dumb and getting ML'd for it. So far I've either been the one who shoots themselves in the foot or points out the bloody foot. Crazy as it may sound I'm going to avoid actively creating or becoming a mislynch if I can help it. Yeah my initiative has been weak but like I said above I've not a lot to ask right now. I did try to fish some reads out of DF which kind of worked.
I read through B0ston's filter and it makes no mention of Grack. Typo or have I missed something obvious?
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On January 07 2017 06:03 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 05:39 Kmatt wrote:On January 07 2017 04:57 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 04:38 Kmatt wrote:reps)squishyMade one relevant post and bailed. It's too early to call anyone hard scum on that, but if he doesn't show up soon I'll consider him on the radar. MichaelEhrmantrautWell he's not dead but not very alive either. I took forever making this myself so I can't be too rustled over the afk. Just another one passing by, null for now. ika42While the questionnaire is still NAI to me, the back and forth with Vivax looked good to me. An easy trap for mafia to fall into is to take any townread they can get. I'll go town here gesoSilverwolf77I can see why you don't like Vivax's posts, but I don't agree with you enough to vote on him as is. I do like the way you prodded here. Like Vivax said earlier, this looks more like two town bumping into each other. B0stonSCI don't like it. I wouldn't be half as bothered if he hadn't come back in to post this On January 06 2017 15:32 B0stonSC wrote:
The hell is a zj? And then leave again doing nothing. The hasty vote looks to me like he's trying to appear useful without having done anything. If I had to commit to a vote now this guy is the perfect balance of afk and dubious, if not scummy. beentheredonethatpls GrackaroniStill waiting on more. Like with SW, I don't scumread this guy enough to vote him, but I can see why Kelsier wouldn't like him. A bit too quick to jump the gun but I've done that myself and everyone plays D1 differently. If you could weigh in on the situation at hand I'd feel better. Leaning scum but not enough to vote while Boston is here. KelsierSCTown enough for me. No one post stands out enough but he hasn't caught my ire. Except that part about doubting me hOW daRe You OneguAFK. Not much more to say here, with the vote being so far off. Too early to call scum. darthfoleyHis posts are decent, but I'd like a read or two this far in. He's clearly kept up with the thread, pointed out posts he did and didn't like, but no conclusions. If you had to place your vote in the next 5 minutes, who would it be? Or who would you call against voting on? CalixNothing groundbreaking either but with how slow the game is I can't fault it too hard. Basically the same as Foley. VivaxI don't like any of his posts individually but is among the only people being active and pushing. As I said above, town arguing with town. So to conclude... not a lot. We had one little argument but nothing major came of it. Plenty of time before the vote so hopefully someone says something silly and gets a wagon going [small][small][small][small]other than me[small][small][small][small]. Your reads don't seem consistent to me and I'd like for you to clarify a few points. Your responses to the different AFK players doesn't make any sense to me as they stand. 1. I am confused as to why ME is null but reps is a potential scum-lean if he keeps AFKing - what are the differences between the two of them in your eyes that means that ME does not get this scum-lean qualifier? Why is Boston "trying to look useful without contributing" but the other AFKers aren't? 2. Why do you scum-lean Grack...if you do? Since you said he's not a stand-out, which you also said about KSC/ DF/ myself, but you have a different read, this is important. 3. Leading on from 2, why is KSC a town-lean despite not having any stand-out posts yet DF/ myself are null (?) for basically the same reasons? 4. Do you consider activity to be alignment-indicative? 5. Not a question but your excessive use of the qualifier "too early to call them scum/ hard-scum" is unnecessary and looks like hedging. 6. Have you tried pushing your own reads? Why does someone have to 'say something silly' first before you do anything? Your lack of initiative shows, something that's apparent given that your main contribution is a static reads list (this isn't a scum tell, just that posting a reads list is the least-interactive way of playing the game). Whoops, this was more than a "few" but tl;dr: your reads look like a patchwork of confusing/ contradictory ideas that you really need to expand on. To preface, the majority of these are gut reads. I probably should have said that first. With how little context I applied to those posts I thought that was assumed. 1) ME came back and at least acknowledged the situation at hand. Still not town but he's at least in the thread, which is more than can be said for a few people. What stuck out with Boston is dropping his vote right away and insisting Grack is scum. If he used that as pressure or a segway into questioning Grack's posts I could get but as soon as he makes that call it's radio silence. Then a little shitpost to remind us how despite not doing anything practical he's still watching the thread. 2) I don't personally scumread Grack, but I can see why Kelsier does. However, were it me in his position (that is to say, scumreading Grack for the same reasons) it wouldn't be a strong enough read to conclude anything. I don't, however, expect Kelsier to play out the game as I would, and I'm aware that people have different D1 strategies, so I'm willing to leave it at that. 3) KSC is more of a gut read. There aren't any major lines of questioning or conclusion I can point to to say "this is why he's town" but the acceptable amount of activity agrees with my gut enough to work with. Specifically that he has a scumread and isn't afraid to show it. You and DF both respond to people's posts, but you never seem to come out with anything other than that you "like" or "dislike" a specific post. I can understand reserving judgement on some people but you can't stay neutral on everyone in the game for much longer. 4) In this case, yes I do. 5) Deal w/ it. One scumread is good enough for me D1, since I only have one vote to use. No point making excess calls. 6) I could push my own reads but between my scumreads being mainly afk and the town quieting down I don't have much to ask. It's not that I won't act unless someone "says something silly", but from nearly every game I've played/watched, the D1 lynch comes down to someone saying something dumb and getting ML'd for it. So far I've either been the one who shoots themselves in the foot or points out the bloody foot. Crazy as it may sound I'm going to avoid actively creating or becoming a mislynch if I can help it. Yeah my initiative has been weak but like I said above I've not a lot to ask right now. I did try to fish some reads out of DF which kind of worked. I read through B0ston's filter and it makes no mention of Grack. Typo or have I missed something obvious?
I just checked and realised you're right. Derp.
Possible that he meant KSC with that Grack vote but I wouldn't characterise KSC's reactions to Grack as "insistence" and he talks about KSC in the same post.
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On January 06 2017 22:25 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 10:59 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 10:57 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 10:55 KelsierSC wrote:
so how you reading ika atm? Slight townread based on posting the questions to get us talking and his activity and interest in the game so far. But he may be just copying his town meta so I'm keeping an eye on him still. yeh...like if i was you that is what I would be thinking if I was town. i have to go into work tomorrow unfortunately but only for like 1hr so should be on tomorrow. I know it seems like i've just been jerking off in the thread, and whilst this is true I think Calix, silver and ika are probably town and everyone else is kind of blegh. Grak is mafia though, im pretty happy with my vote at the moment. This post gets my vote.
ika, when you get on, can you explain this vote? Why does this post make you scumread KelsierSC?
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On January 07 2017 04:56 reps)squishy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:37 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:33 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 23:32 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:10 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 23:07 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 22:56 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 22:28 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol
But you have seen ikas meta yes? how come you are acting like i am town? How does that question have anything to do with your alignment? On January 06 2017 22:35 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude.
It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol.
It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. Yea scum try to appear useful. This is why I focused on ika compared to someone like Onegu. Ika started the game with this useful looking questionnaire thing that everyone agrees is NAI for everyone-- but it gets people talking! Since that post it's basically been chummy with KSC and SW. I just feel like everything else in this game could've happened without using the questionnaire, which reminds me of the "appearance of utility" meta point. Do you have any opinion of Grack or Calix atm? Grack no opinion yet, as for calix I just let her do her thing as she's active and keeps delivering her view of the game. Right now I'm mostly waiting for you and Kelsier to post more as your posts are what I'm concentrating the most on at the moment. So do you actually believe you have something on ika or not? That he tried to appear useful with the questionnaire is I think not an argument you mentioned earlier. i asked you a question, i do not expect a question in return. I expect an answer. If you have a question after that then you can ask. Your question already implies that I guessed your alignment, which is wrong, so it can't be answered. On January 06 2017 23:07 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Vivax-Why are you defending ika so early in the game? Suspecting someone doesn't mean I'm defending his scumreads, which you are assuming I do. When you are interjecting yourself into a person's suspicion of someone else, without letting him scumhunt ika, then that means you think ika is town. Otherwise, you would want ika to respond first to get a read on him. I get going after someone for having what you think is a bad read on someone else, but this is spending too much time defending a person who you have not even given an opinion on yet but are acting like he's town. I would like your read on ika. Is he town or not and why? So right now you're interjecting in my suspicion on foley and hence townreading him? You should have realized by now that it's not how this is going to work. And you should realize by now that your constant deflection and this kind of attitude doesn't work with me at all. I don't see how you can be town so I'm gonna go ahead and place my vote here. You don't see how he can be town? I see you did vote for him. Can you elaborate what makes you feel this way for a more oblivious individual such as myself.
I made a few posts after this explaining it more. Here let me get them for you.
On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him. No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit.
On January 07 2017 01:12 SilverWolf77 wrote:
No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
It was a combination of what looked like defending people he didn't have a read on by interjecting and answering for them and also acting like he knew they were town with the way he was talking about them (mentioning ika's meta, B0ston SC's playstyle when he knows nothing about these things) plus deflecting/discrediting of any suspicion. There are a few posts of Vivax's which don't look as bad but I tend to aggressively persue what pings me as scummy because we don't have a lot to go on d1.
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I thought I voted for Onegu, is the page 10 vote count wrong or did I or did I format it wrong?
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On January 07 2017 06:46 B0stonSC wrote:
I thought I voted for Onegu, is the page 10 vote count wrong or did I or did I format it wrong?
You have to put it in the separate vote thread. Also, why Onegu?
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Given the new content he provided, I decided to read kmatt's posts because he's pretty hard to read and he keeps pinging me because his posts are obviously polished (which isn't AI in this context but I have to keep telling myself that because it bugs me every time he posts) and well different from his other games. His reads in his list were also confusing and weren't transparent at all. But even with that in mind, I think he fared well when he came out of his shell a bit and started interacting more since he seemed to be posting more off-the-cuff/ naturally compared to posting a list and popping off again.
Wait, just realised. So he has that reads list. Why would he say "I'm focusing on one (scum) read, no point making excess calls" or whatever in the same breath that he makes reads on everyone when he could have been doing the focusing on that scum-read? That doesn't mesh together.
But then he also agrees with me that Boston is scummy so I'm not so sure. But he got two of his reads mixed up (I think) so I'm not sure if he means Boston or if he's just not paying attention there. Man he is a mess.
So he's back at null, not because he's done nothing AI but because I don't know whether the scum aspects outweigh the potential town motivations.
SW, what's your take on him? (also goes to anyone else popping in)
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Boston is just in his own little world, detached from the thread and floating by without a single fuck given for all the other stuff going on. His entrance was terrible and his follow-up just reinforces my read. He is too hung up on a player who hasn't DONE anything and is relatively inactive with no reason given and doesn't talk about anything else. Furthermore, he's not actually following through on his Onegu read or vote with anything substantial or trying to convince people or caring much. He's just there.
If we're going for someone low-activity then this is the most likely to hit scum atm.
##vote B0stonSC
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Okay, so after catching up, I have a few things to respond on.
First, as to why I am not more active, is that I have not a whole lot of time to play mafia during the week, so what I am doing is catching up, responding to everything I feel needs a response, giving my reads, then getting back off. You may flame me for this, but unless it's the weekend this will be how I play. I do have a life you know, but mafia is a lot of fun (which is why I wanted to play it).
As to why I voted Onegu (asked three times, by my count), he has made a claim (with the first post of the game) and then posted a non informative post. That's all he has done. I wanted to see what happens if he gets a bit of pressure on him, but after this amount of time I feel that he is just inactive.
On to my reads, Kmatt feels very much a scummy player to me becuase he is posting quite a bit now, but it doesn't feel like he is accomplishing anything. DarthFoley seems waaaay too defensive, so that seems odd, but I'll keep looking at him so I can get a more solid read. Vivax and MichaelEhrmantraut seem a bit off. Nothing suspicious, but just a bit not quite correct to me. This is more of a gut read than anything else, so I'll be doing a reread (probably today) for just them to see what's up.
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EPT
