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On January 06 2017 23:32 SilverWolf77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:10 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 23:07 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 22:56 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 22:28 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:
Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little?
[quote]
This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand.
Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? how come you are acting like i am town? How does that question have anything to do with your alignment? On January 06 2017 22:35 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:
[quote]
But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. Yea scum try to appear useful. This is why I focused on ika compared to someone like Onegu. Ika started the game with this useful looking questionnaire thing that everyone agrees is NAI for everyone-- but it gets people talking! Since that post it's basically been chummy with KSC and SW. I just feel like everything else in this game could've happened without using the questionnaire, which reminds me of the "appearance of utility" meta point. Do you have any opinion of Grack or Calix atm? Grack no opinion yet, as for calix I just let her do her thing as she's active and keeps delivering her view of the game. Right now I'm mostly waiting for you and Kelsier to post more as your posts are what I'm concentrating the most on at the moment. So do you actually believe you have something on ika or not? That he tried to appear useful with the questionnaire is I think not an argument you mentioned earlier. i asked you a question, i do not expect a question in return. I expect an answer. If you have a question after that then you can ask. Your question already implies that I guessed your alignment, which is wrong, so it can't be answered. On January 06 2017 23:07 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Vivax-Why are you defending ika so early in the game? Suspecting someone doesn't mean I'm defending his scumreads, which you are assuming I do. When you are interjecting yourself into a person's suspicion of someone else, without letting him scumhunt ika, then that means you think ika is town. Otherwise, you would want ika to respond first to get a read on him. I get going after someone for having what you think is a bad read on someone else, but this is spending too much time defending a person who you have not even given an opinion on yet but are acting like he's town. I would like your read on ika. Is he town or not and why?
So right now you're interjecting in my suspicion on foley and hence townreading him? You should have realized by now that it's not how this is going to work.
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On January 06 2017 22:48 ika42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 22:42 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 22:40 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 22:35 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol
But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. Yea scum try to appear useful. This is why I focused on ika compared to someone like Onegu. Ika started the game with this useful looking questionnaire thing that everyone agrees is NAI for everyone-- but it gets people talking! Since that post it's basically been chummy with KSC and SW. I just feel like everything else in this game could've happened without using the questionnaire, which reminds me of the "appearance of utility" meta point. Do you have any opinion of Grack or Calix atm? is that last part directed at me or vivak? cus you reference me in here but im not sure if its a direct at me due to me being here. Nah that's towards Vivax. I posted that at the same time as you did your flurry of recent posts. Speaking of which, what do you make of Vivax so far? null scum the post he made here: Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 13:38 Vivax wrote:I like these questions. Just the first is pointless, insert generic yes. Don't think anything related to them deserves to be alignment indicative, but it's a nice way of getting to know new faces, On January 06 2017 09:25 ika42 wrote:
are you town? zzz.
how long have you played mafia? 6-7 years, I think?
do you play elsewhere and if so where? Town of Salem when I want a quick casual game where I can execute people in jail.
What is your typical play style? Agreeable and low activity as scum and abrasive, sometimes spammy as town.
how do you scumhunt/townhunt? That doesn't fit in a questionnaire.
do you know anyone here that you can read very well? Nah no one in the dead sure category.
is what sticks out to me right now. He goes "oh NAI stuff, let me claim its NAI and answer it" but the bigger thing is what is bolded. The way hes putting it out there (oh jsut punch in yes) feels like a guilty conscious of "well i'm scum who needs to put in generic sounding yes" cus i could of said to mine (or anyone for that matter) "why yes i am town", "lol, ya im town", hell someone could even say "nah im miller" or "im scum you got me" like i've asked that dozens of times and gotten anything from someone claiming to be a citizen (VT) to a jester who needs to be lynched by specific people. do i make sense? I kinda streamlined it
If you're saying that Vivax is demonstrating a guilty conscience by giving an awkward answer to the "are you town" question then I get where you're coming from.
I just don't agree that how people respond to those are AI.
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On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome.
Oh give me a break!! Now, instead of talking to me about ika or darth, you decide to discredit me with sarcasm and bad reasoning. You haven't answered my question about ika but instead are deflecting.
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On January 06 2017 23:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:32 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 23:10 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 23:07 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 22:56 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 22:28 ika42 wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted.
His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful.
Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? how come you are acting like i am town? How does that question have anything to do with your alignment? On January 06 2017 22:35 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 17:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 16:25 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
No, I don't know the guy
Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. She asked me if I had picked up on anything else and that was the only thing I had found worth mentioning. I think it's hardly accurate to say that I'm trying to smear the dude. It's refreshing to assess someone's motives without knowing meta. You're less likely to talk yourself out of gut reads. No idea why you find that problematic. You're acting like I'm on a crusade against the guy lol. It's always easy to call out someone for being trolly or not contributive. And I don't see how that applies to him in particular. Even for yourself it's such a weak argument that you call it not a real read. So I find it unusual that asked whether you saw something worth picking up, you do it over something that you didn't feel strongly about, and for something that is imo NAI (not alignment indicative for who doesn't know) at this stage. So one possibility is you were simply being casual as town and throwing that out there even though for your play it will have little impact as you don't want to pursue that further. Then again that would mean that your answer to Calix "did you see something worthwhile" still wasn't answered and that you didn't find an avenue for finding scum there. Or you are scum with the pressure that comes to post something looking useful well knowing that as long as you post something that you don't have to commit to, you're fine. And that post also falls in this category, too. Now from this ambiguity why do I think that it makes you more likely mafia? Scum that doesn't have a trolly town meta by default will be under pressure to look useful. Your filter apart from one or two posts seems like you are trying to look useful. That post isn't something I believe you think to be useful. Otherwise tell me why you believe it's useful. Achieves something for yourself besides satisfying a request that you would grant only to enhance your standing with the town, which is mafia play. Yea scum try to appear useful. This is why I focused on ika compared to someone like Onegu. Ika started the game with this useful looking questionnaire thing that everyone agrees is NAI for everyone-- but it gets people talking! Since that post it's basically been chummy with KSC and SW. I just feel like everything else in this game could've happened without using the questionnaire, which reminds me of the "appearance of utility" meta point. Do you have any opinion of Grack or Calix atm? Grack no opinion yet, as for calix I just let her do her thing as she's active and keeps delivering her view of the game. Right now I'm mostly waiting for you and Kelsier to post more as your posts are what I'm concentrating the most on at the moment. So do you actually believe you have something on ika or not? That he tried to appear useful with the questionnaire is I think not an argument you mentioned earlier. i asked you a question, i do not expect a question in return. I expect an answer. If you have a question after that then you can ask. Your question already implies that I guessed your alignment, which is wrong, so it can't be answered. On January 06 2017 23:07 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 10:43 Calix wrote:
I sense I'll have an aneurysm at this rate.
DF, you seem sensible. What else have you noticed so far? I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Vivax-Why are you defending ika so early in the game? Suspecting someone doesn't mean I'm defending his scumreads, which you are assuming I do. When you are interjecting yourself into a person's suspicion of someone else, without letting him scumhunt ika, then that means you think ika is town. Otherwise, you would want ika to respond first to get a read on him. I get going after someone for having what you think is a bad read on someone else, but this is spending too much time defending a person who you have not even given an opinion on yet but are acting like he's town. I would like your read on ika. Is he town or not and why? So right now you're interjecting in my suspicion on foley and hence townreading him? You should have realized by now that it's not how this is going to work.
And you should realize by now that your constant deflection and this kind of attitude doesn't work with me at all.
I don't see how you can be town so I'm gonna go ahead and place my vote here.
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brb will comment on SW/ ika/ Vivax in a bit.
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I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him.
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On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him.
No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense.
I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already.
Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject.
Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit.
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On January 07 2017 00:02 SilverWolf77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:40 Vivax wrote:
I don't have a read on ika so far and I don't need to have one to question darthfoley's read on him. No, you don't have to have a read on ika to say darthfoley's read on him is bad. I agree. The problem I have is the way you are doing it. Basically, ika no longer has to answer the suspicion because you interjected. Not only interjected but also defended ika by asking if darthfoley has his meta and implying that ika's questions are not scummy. You have a right to have an opinion on ika's questioning but the way you are doing it is very protective of ika. If you have no read of ika, this doesn't make much sense. I guess my gut just pinged hard off of that and also I think you interjected when someone was questioning someone else-I think Calix pointed this out already. Anyway, from my experience, scum like to do this because they get towncred for defending people they know are town. It's way too early to have a super strong opinion on someone's alignment, unless you know that alignment. Doesn't mean we can't have reads. We certainly can. But when I would of preferred to see ika answer the suspicion and engage with darth rather than have you interject. Sorry if I'm not explaining myself well. I'm tired and rambling right now. Be back in a little bit.
Ika has to answer the suspicion if you, or anyone else for that matter, make him feel like he has to.
In your opinion I made him feel like he didn't have to cause I defended him by suspecting darthfoley. Well, I can and will voice my suspicion when I think I found something worthwhile and darthfoley can take his time to reply whenever he wants, just as ika can answer to darthfoley whenever he wants. So I don't think I hindered the scumhunting of someone in any way by doing my own.
If you really think that darthfoley's line of thought was so worth it and cause of me, a hypothetical mafia ika got off the hook, you can still always ask ika about it yourself. But you rather saw it as important to reprimand me/call me mafia, not sure what it is yet.
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No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
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On January 07 2017 01:12 SilverWolf77 wrote:
No, it isn't that I think darthfoley's suspicion of ika is worth it.
It's more that I saw you defending two people who you don't have a townread on. By saying B0stonSC just does things that way is a defense of him before he can even answer the question directed at him. You asking darth if he has ika's meta looked like a defense of ika.
Also, In response to my suspicion, you deflected or tried to discredit rather than just explaining yourself further.
That said, giving your own opinion of B0stonSC's opening or your own opinion of darth's read on ika as fake is totally valid and not scummy to me at all.
There's a difference between discrediting and trying to expose why your reasoning is wrong. You also said I was sarcastic when I wasn't at all, I just emulated your logic.
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I'm starting to relate to those people who always whine about how hard Calix vs NU is to read because I find the ika/ SW/ Vivax thing hard to follow. I'm still not sure I actually understand the full details of the case against Vivax.
The one point that I really relate to is how Vivax deflects questions about his talking-for-people tendency with snark and doesn't answer them. When I asked about why he was answering for Boston he did that and he did it later on with SW. I see no purpose in speaking for other people on simple questions like "why did you vote for Onegu" and reads like busywork. I want an explanation for that because that's scummy as hell and he didn't counter that point off-the-cuff.
+ Show Spoiler [Evidence and shit] +On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome.
I didn't get the impression that Vivax made his posts against DF with the intent to defend ika so making guesses about ika's alignment from Vivax's behaviour is questionable imo. However I think that SW makes good observations about the discrepancy between Vivax's read on ika (or lack of it) and what he says regarding him. I feel like if you interact or talk about a player a lot, you should have a good reason if you end up with a null/ no read on them.
I liked ika's reactions to Vivax a lot.
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On January 07 2017 01:26 Calix wrote:I'm starting to relate to those people who always whine about how hard Calix vs NU is to read because I find the ika/ SW/ Vivax thing hard to follow. I'm still not sure I actually understand the full details of the case against Vivax. The one point that I really relate to is how Vivax deflects questions about his talking-for-people tendency with snark and doesn't answer them. When I asked about why he was answering for Boston he did that and he did it later on with SW. I see no purpose in speaking for other people on simple questions like "why did you vote for Onegu" and reads like busywork. I want an explanation for that because that's scummy as hell and he didn't counter that point off-the-cuff. + Show Spoiler [Evidence and shit] +On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum. On January 06 2017 23:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:18 SilverWolf77 wrote:On January 06 2017 16:14 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:48 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:42 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:39 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 15:30 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 15:21 darthfoley wrote:On January 06 2017 14:13 Vivax wrote:Is there anyone here who actually didn't play mafia before, or just very very little? On January 06 2017 11:31 darthfoley wrote:
[quote]
I actually feel weird about ika. Asked the kinda useless questionnaire and has basically been bs'ing a bit since. Not a real read but I find his opening a little off This read looks forced. I mean, you will say it isn't a read I know, but we both know it kind of is. And to me it just looks like you were looking for someone to make look guilty easily to fulfill Calix demand. Fend yourself, Foley. Forced how? Of course it's a read, but it's a D1 read 3 hours in. Forgive me if i'm not wow'd by someone asking nebulous or irrelevant questions about self meta that could easily be bullshitted. His play since is more trolly than I prefer, except regarding the point on Calix's scum play which is actually useful. Why not 1gu then? I've never seen Onegu play a non trolly game. It's within his meta either way, especially D1 lol But you have seen ikas meta yes? No, I don't know the guy Idk why you are eager to suspect someone for not being super serious at the beginning of the game, when clearly you don't even know how he usually plays. So that's why I'm saying your read is forced, it looked like you found something worth smearing for the sake of itself cause calix asked you to dig something up. WTF? Why is ika hard town to you? And don't say he's not cuz no way would you defend him like this unless you are town who believes he's town or scum trying to get towncred if he's town. There's always a chance you are scumbuddies too with this attitude. So why are you townreading him? Let me adopt your logic for a moment: "Why are you scumreading Ika, silverwolf. Where did you scumread Ika huh?" By your logic, right now you would be scumreading Ika cause you are attacking my townread on him. But that's wrong! I can perfectly question someone's means of reading someone without having a read on that someone. Questioning the method is not the same as questioning the outcome. I didn't get the impression that Vivax made his posts against DF with the intent to defend ika so making guesses about ika's alignment from Vivax's behaviour is questionable imo. However I think that SW makes good observations about the discrepancy between Vivax's read on ika (or lack of it) and what he says regarding him. I feel like if you interact or talk about a player a lot, you should have a good reason if you end up with a null/ no read on them. I liked ika's reactions to Vivax a lot.
Answering with snark? You didn't ask anything. You claimed that I answered for Boston. I clarified that I gave a read on him. This game is about trying to make oneself correctly readable as town.
You could as well demand that anyone simply shuts up when he isn't asked about something specific. But this is a game of information not the military, and I can give reads on whoever I please without being asked.
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So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions.
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On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far.
I asked why you were answering for Boston here wrt the first part of your post (where you gave an explanation for why he might have voted for Onegu).
On January 06 2017 23:31 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2017 23:26 Calix wrote:On January 06 2017 21:29 Vivax wrote:On January 06 2017 19:56 KelsierSC wrote:On January 06 2017 12:51 B0stonSC wrote:
About to go do a re read through, because Onegu hasn't posted anything of note since the game started (by of note, I mean anything I took note on) On January 06 2017 13:11 B0stonSC wrote:
yeah Onegu seems suspicious, so
##vote Onegu
This is true of many people so why is onegu the vote? I guessed that's just his way of doing things, ie judging people by perceived usefulness/compliance. And 1gu really looks like he's doing the least, which sadly isn't alignment indicative. BTDT still has to post but when he does it's usually a lot. There's a townie simplicity to Bostons posts, but that's just a first impression, and of course it's just an early read. Still need a grasp of how much he is actually following the game given he claims to have read and reread it and even took notes. Just voting 1gu doesn't give much info. I don't like this post. Why are you answering for Boston? It's a simple question that he can answer by himself. And why explain your answer in enough depth that you even say why Boston might not have picked BTDT? (assuming that's why you brought up BTDT anyway) I also feel that your read on Boston does the over-explaining thing as well because you bring up all the minor things he has done so far. Yes I gave a read on a player while Kelsier was around to talk about him. Such scum.
You respond with snark here.
So I don't understand your response.
Your last paragraph is a mischaracterisation. Nobody has argued that you can't give reads using your initiative. That's not the argument being made here and I'd like to know where you got the idea that it was from. To the best of my understanding, it's the way that you're "giving reads" (as you put it) re: Boston/ ika that SW is questioning you about.
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On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions.
Your point?
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On January 07 2017 01:52 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions. Your point?
If you ask shitty questions you get shitty answers
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On January 07 2017 01:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2017 01:52 Calix wrote:On January 07 2017 01:48 Vivax wrote:
So far you and Ika both asked such loaded questions that already imply I did something I did not. Obviously you're not going to get a nice answer to "Do you always beat your wife" type of questions. Your point? If you ask shitty questions you get shitty answers
If you think playing 20 questions sucks then I'll let you do something else.
I'd rather take a nap or something than have a lengthy discussion tbh lol.
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Should be a when*
Anyway.
I keep thinking it'd be cool if more people posted, this feels a lot like a clash between overeager townies which is what happens 80 % of the time in the average game of mafia.
I also feel a bit troubled by ika and Silver actually living together cause
they had little interaction at the start of the game, but then it wore off quickly.
And Silver was very eager to jump at me for apparently defending ika.
And ika brought ahead a similar argument where he said I was too sure of him being town.
Point being, they might have a common playstyle being a couple or whatever, and I don't really know how that plays out since they're new here. It did kinda feel concertated how they were bombarding me with accusations back there.
But it's just feels
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I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack
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On January 07 2017 02:33 darthfoley wrote:
I'd be interested to see Kelsier's take on this Vivax/ika/SW thing when he gets a chance.
And more from Grack
And yours?
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EPT
