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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On November 30 2016 23:18 farvacola wrote: Again, I don't know what show y'all are watching, I've been loving every minute. Hard to let a show just be a show these days. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 30 2016 23:52 ThomasjServo wrote: Hard to let a show just be a show these days. What does that even mean? You aren't allowed to criticize entertainment because it's only there to waste some time? With that argument you can defend the biggest trash there is, "hey it's just a show". Obviously Westworld is still pretty high lvl, HBO's production value alone makes this true. But some people had higher expectations after watching the first episodes. The focus being on mysteries or "puzzles" is a matter of taste, but what about the characters? Let's talk a bit about that. Do you care for them? Is it even necessary in this show to have characters you find interesting? | ||
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ThomasjServo
15244 Posts
On December 01 2016 00:53 The_Red_Viper wrote: What does that even mean? You aren't allowed to criticize entertainment because it's only there to waste some time? With that argument you can defend the biggest trash there is, "hey it's just a show". Obviously Westworld is still pretty high lvl, HBO's production value alone makes this true. But some people had higher expectations after watching the first episodes. The focus being on mysteries or "puzzles" is a matter of taste, but what about the characters? Let's talk a bit about that. Do you care for them? Is it even necessary in this show to have characters you find interesting? I don't think that necessarily follows, what I mean to say is I find that for me personally there is a thin line between enthusiasm and pedantry in the course of discussing any show that mucks up the whole point of any show for me which is just enjoyment. The disconnect for me I guess is militant defense of speculation idle or otherwise about a show. With a lot of high production value these days there is the inclination to take it to the nth degree whenever possible, and every line and scene is CSI'd to a point that I think is a bit much. I do enjoy a good, off the rails fan theory when it is well constructed. It All comes down to where you get your kicks I guess, and for me that isn't bogged down in the title of a book behind Ford in a scene during which I was brushing my teeth . As to the characters, I liked one idea I saw that considered William to be the villain at least when he was younger. The idea being that he screwed up a generous vacation with his brother in law in favor of Dolores. That is the relationship I'm most interested in at the moment. I don't think any character is especially sympathetic, but I think the most interesting transition to watch will be William from first time visitor to becoming a board member presumably through marrying into money. I'm also curious when his interest in Dolores will fade, if ever and if that was a contributing factor in his wife's suicide. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On December 01 2016 00:53 The_Red_Viper wrote: What does that even mean? You aren't allowed to criticize entertainment because it's only there to waste some time? With that argument you can defend the biggest trash there is, "hey it's just a show". Obviously Westworld is still pretty high lvl, HBO's production value alone makes this true. But some people had higher expectations after watching the first episodes. The focus being on mysteries or "puzzles" is a matter of taste, but what about the characters? Let's talk a bit about that. Do you care for them? Is it even necessary in this show to have characters you find interesting? I agree with you, right now I only care about Ford and MIB, but Ford mainly, that means that for me theres not good character development in the show, Theresa and Elsie could have been interesting characters but now they are gone. Right now I just want Dolores and William, along with Maeve go and jump off a cliff  . | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On November 30 2016 23:13 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: I gotta say I am severely disappointed by the direction this show took. I absolutely loved the first 2-3 episodes, felt like it got progressively worse after that. Now it feels like "The Island" meets "I robot". The dialogue writing is hit or miss, the storylines all kind of fell apart and I don't care for any of the characters any more. Gonna finish this season obviously, but my hopes for an awesome season 2 are quite slim. i think thats abit exaggerating by saying the show is falling apart aha. But ye, i just cant help but to keep thinking that....johanathan nolan maybe is good at the script (somewhat), but for the execution in directing, i feel like he needs his brother christopher to make it work well. And yes, first 2 episodes i would say, such awesome pilots. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 01 2016 01:57 ThomasjServo wrote: I don't think that necessarily follows, what I mean to say is I find that for me personally there is a thin line between enthusiasm and pedantry in the course of discussing any show that mucks up the whole point of any show for me which is just enjoyment. The disconnect for me I guess is militant defense of speculation idle or otherwise about a show. With a lot of high production value these days there is the inclination to take it to the nth degree whenever possible, and every line and scene is CSI'd to a point that I think is a bit much. I do enjoy a good, off the rails fan theory when it is well constructed. It All comes down to where you get your kicks I guess, and for me that isn't bogged down in the title of a book behind Ford in a scene during which I was brushing my teeth . As to the characters, I liked one idea I saw that considered William to be the villain at least when he was younger. The idea being that he screwed up a generous vacation with his brother in law in favor of Dolores. That is the relationship I'm most interested in at the moment. I don't think any character is especially sympathetic, but I think the most interesting transition to watch will be William from first time visitor to becoming a board member presumably through marrying into money. I'm also curious when his interest in Dolores will fade, if ever and if that was a contributing factor in his wife's suicide. Sure it is enjoyment, but there are reasons why you enjoy it or not. Typically it should be quality. For me personally i like to compare any form of entertainment to other things i already experienced and if the difference in quality (or what i perceive as quality) is too big the chance is high that i won't like it (that's not true in every single case though obviously, it's not THAT simple) So for example i am quite annoyed at Westworld for the imo bad characterization. Maybe not bad when i compare it to some low lvl show on a network, but bad for HBO's standard i think. In theory William and Dolores would be a very interesting storyline, but it wasn't developed in a convincing way for me at all tbh. It didn't feel organically, it was very forced if you ask me. Both characters also are rather two dimensional, maybe it's the acting though. The mystery, puzzle aspect of it is well done (even though i dislike that they cheated a bit with editing) but other aspects of it should be more developed imo. I guess it really is the expectations though, i love HBO and its shows, especially the older ones are masterpieces i think (Sopranos, Six Feet Under, The Wire, etc) and every show i watch has to come close to these for me to not be disappointing. Westworld looked promising at the start, especially because i love the premise, the themes of consciousness, what it means to be a human, AI, etc but imo it doesn't really do a lot with it. And no that doesn't mean that i don't enjoy it at all, it's still pretty high lvl and better than most other things on tv and certainly worth the time each week. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
My god, TL threads are literally the most toxic places to discuss TV shows. Literally makes entertainment value go down 10 fold after reading them. I thought the show has done an amazing job, and I'm looking forward to the season finale. This will be my one and only post here, have a good day all! | ||
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Engelmann
26 Posts
On December 02 2016 08:11 FiWiFaKi wrote: I just binge watched episode 1-9, and then I said, hey, let's go check this thread out. My god, TL threads are literally the most toxic places to discuss TV shows. Literally makes entertainment value go down 10 fold after reading them. I thought the show has done an amazing job, and I'm looking forward to the season finale. This will be my one and only post here, have a good day all! hey look at mr holier than thou over here | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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ahw
Canada1099 Posts
The characters are definitely the weak point, but I don't think it detracts too much from the overall picture. Maeve is a bit annoying, almost everyone is underdeveloped, but it's the trade off they made for a 10 episode season. Definitely one of the better shows on tv. That's not the highest praise, but, yeah. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 02 2016 09:19 ahw wrote: I like this show a lot. I think it does a great job of presenting itself as a puzzle, while still being entertaining. The characters are definitely the weak point, but I don't think it detracts too much from the overall picture. Maeve is a bit annoying, almost everyone is underdeveloped, but it's the trade off they made for a 10 episode season. Definitely one of the better shows on tv. That's not the highest praise, but, yeah. Well there are lots of good shows on tv these days, so it being one of the better ones is definitely praise. And i agree completely that it's one of the better shows out there. Personally i disagree with it being close to the masterpiece lvl of HBO's classics though, but no recent HBO show would qualify for that. If Westworld manages to go a bit more in depth with characters and the themes then it might get there though, who knows. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9330 Posts
On December 02 2016 08:11 FiWiFaKi wrote: I just binge watched episode 1-9, and then I said, hey, let's go check this thread out. My god, TL threads are literally the most toxic places to discuss TV shows. Literally makes entertainment value go down 10 fold after reading them. I thought the show has done an amazing job, and I'm looking forward to the season finale. This will be my one and only post here, have a good day all! Hello my name is FiwiFaki and I am a very tolerant and positive person. Now let me tell you are all toxic for having a different opinion than mine without adding any value to any discussion. Bye. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10541 Posts
Will give it another try for sure but well.. I'm not that optimistic anymore. | ||
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Koivusto
Finland542 Posts
On December 02 2016 20:00 Hider wrote: Hello my name is FiwiFaki and I am a very tolerant and positive person. Now let me tell you are all toxic for having a different opinion than mine without adding any value to any discussion. Bye. The guy is not wrong, though | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
There's no right or wrong in this, everyone has subjective opinions, though his are less valid seeing as he used ridiculous hyperbole with 'literally' twice (his enjoyment of the show went from 5/5 to 0.5/5 after reading here? stream chats aren't more toxic?). It's just people have different standards and Westworld has disappointed some with how it has developed after some fantastic early episodes. I find the TV threads often add to my enjoyment of shows, as I have people to discuss the episodes with and a way to release my frustrations. But somehow a variety of thoughtful perspectives, some critical, is literally the most toxic Westworld discussion on the net. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On December 01 2016 02:47 palexhur wrote: I agree with you, right now I only care about Ford and MIB, but Ford mainly, that means that for me theres not good character development in the show, Theresa and Elsie could have been interesting characters but now they are gone. Right now I just want Dolores and William, along with Maeve go and jump off a cliff .I don't think Elsie is actually dead... they hid the final outcome too much plus the whole bit with security guy being taken down non violently by native bots. Given their established connection I guess it's Elsie related, though I'm not hopeful about where that storyline will go... (worst case scenario in my brain is something like she realized bernard is a bot, got him to let her go and then talk to ford, didn't actually shoot himself at the end, ford overthrown in some retardedly contrived bot rebellion leading to season 2). Agree with the rest, especially Maeve. At least stop writing her like such a god damn cliche. I would probably judge it a lot less harshly if I didn't absolutely love the first two episodes soooo much. I really expected something different... less fantastical I guess? Really everything except Maeve I can tolerate tho. Fuck I liked Felix character, the bird tinkering was a good setup for him fucking things up with Maeve but the way they wrote it would require him to have the self preservation of a moth next to a flame. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
By all means, everyone can have whatever opinion they want, and nobody is really objectively wrong. The difference is there's the optimists who are enjoying life, and the pessimists who aren't. There's many ways to look at a situation, there's plenty of things you can praise about the TV show, and plenty you can criticize. I think with the approach that a small majority here are taking, you're just setting yourself up to not have a good time. Idk, when I watched the show, sure there was things I wished it did differently, but I found a lot of beauty in the show. Then I read it here, and it makes my mind tunnel onto all the negatives, or whatever could potentially being perceived as negative, as that's mainly what's discussed - that's what I'm getting at. @Scarecrow - a x/5 or x/10 doesn't have to be a linear scale (a girl who is a 8/10 isn't 14.29% more attractive than a 7/10 for instance). That said, yes I used "literally" more for emphasis than to mean literally. | ||
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Engelmann
26 Posts
On December 03 2016 13:25 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Maeve go and jump off a cliff .Agree with the rest, especially Maeve. At least stop writing her like such a god damn cliche. Really everything except Maeve I can tolerate tho. Fuck I liked Felix character, the bird tinkering was a good setup for him fucking things up with Maeve but the way they wrote it would require him to have the self preservation of a moth next to a flame.[/QUOTE] Can we just be honest and just say it's really because Maeve is black and old? I mean, if she was a young hot white chick then we'd be going on about how awesome she is for being a rebel, and be rooting for her girl power independence damn I'd like to "be rooting [for]" her, if you know what i mean, hurr hurr. Seriously, if Maeve looked like this: ![[image loading]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d9/be/38/d9be3852d5595517e044783fe52f285d.jpg) I think we'd be all going on about how awesome this show is and how we can't wait to find out what happens. the reality is black lead characters don't lead to box office hits. HBO is trying to change this and shape people's conceptions, but I just don't see it happening. It's why Trump was so popular - because he told it like it was. You get so many interracial, gay characters on TV these days for the sake of being black and gay ("hey, I can't join your team I've got a special man waiting for me at home" - legends of tomorrow old guy from the 50s, oh wow this is so liberal and chic - I mean, seriously, who really gives a shit)??? User was warned for this post | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On December 03 2016 14:15 Engelmann wrote: Can we just be honest and just say it's really because Maeve is black and old? That's such horseshit and says more about you than anyone else here. Bernard is also black and old and doesn't seem to get any hate. As for Maeve, I find her reasonably attractive but that's not even important. All the criticism of Maeve is based on her storyline not making sense and constantly breaking the immersion with the facility and techs' complete lack of competence. Now unfortunately she's the symbol of her mess of a storyline and gets hate for it. If she had a compelling story, without obvious holes, I'm sure people would be enjoying it. It's retarded that we can't criticise a middle-aged, black actresses' storyline because if we do it's sexist/racist/ageist. Her acting hasn't been the issue at all, it's entirely on the writing. Her acting has honestly been better than the rest of the cast besides the MiB and Hopkins. On December 03 2016 14:15 Engelmann wrote: It's why Trump was so popular - because he told it like it was. You get so many interracial, gay characters on TV these days for the sake of being black and gay... oh wow this is so liberal and chic - I mean, seriously, who really gives a shit)??? Now I get it. I'm sorry the media's not whitewashed enough for you. Who gives a shit about portraying diversity when it'd be much more realistic if everyone was straight, hot, young and white? | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
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