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On June 28 2018 22:28 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2018 13:03 Tictock wrote:On June 27 2018 22:30 -Archangel- wrote:On June 26 2018 23:23 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2018 22:04 Dav1oN wrote:On June 26 2018 12:23 Tictock wrote:On June 26 2018 07:39 Yhamm wrote:
the part after the credit is confirmed to be far in the future, way after season 3 So the fact that he looks just like he did at the end of S2 is super pandering to the audience? As in it makes no sense why he would actually be made that way and is only so that the audience can connect with him from how they last saw him. Yea, I’m probably being overly critical here, but still. The point is that such moment defines Williams personality, just like in a scene with James/Logan Delos. No matter what MIB does, no matter which choice he's making - everything ends up there. Human storage long gone, yet, ton's of build of William was tested. I might be wrong tho. In the end the valley beyond is another illusion of a choice, they simply died falling from the rock with hosts mind being transferred to a "cloud". I know it's twisted too much and hard to navigate. I also lost myself in a middle of episode thinking - are they in matrix (forge) where they tested the builds, or they IRL. I also missed a few points, is the forge was build for humans, while cradle was made to backup hosts? Prolly I need to rewatch from S1 beginning till the end to clarify lot's of details. I actually think they were making a bit of the point that all choice is possibly an illusion here. Given what they say about humanity in the Library. + Show Spoiler +I take a much less pessimistic approach to the Valley Beyond. If you think about it we are all born into a world not of our choosing and spend our lives trying to learn how to live in said world and maybe briefly grasping at ways to take control over it. I actually am reminded of a quote from Rick and Morty (from ABC's of Beth, and paraphrasing) "Beth, we are Smart. That means we can throw a saddle on our Universe and take it for a ride, but I've never met a Universe that was into it. In the end, we all get thrown off."
So the hosts are throwing themselves off a cliff to the eyes of Humans, but to themselves they are moving into a world of their own choosing.
Yea, you have that right. The cradle was to house the backups of the Hosts, and act as a place where they could be build and tested. Whereas the Forge was the backups for the Human guests, and where they tried to learn how to capture the core essence of a human.
But I'm sorry, I don't buy that William's hand being blown off defines him more as a character than what we witnessed from him in S1. Then again, I don't really buy the notion that we are given in this episode about one single moment defining our entire lives. Especially when you consider how late in life the moment presented for James Delos occurred, according to that logic he wasn't really himself until that moment. The AI that oversees and does human code testing was itself designed by Arnold and Ford so all his code, way of thinking and way he sees the world is based on how Arnold and Ford do. And they both failed as humans. Arnold kept killing himself even after being brought back as host multiple times and Ford was utterly mad and consumed with idea that: #1 humans suck #2 humans can no longer evolve and improve and he needs to do something about it So anything said or done in this show is from just one point of view. This is also a reason why I see the attempt to create AI in real life just as act of human hubris. We are very imperfect beings that don't even understand fully how and why we work and as such we have no way to create something that will be better than us, it can only be worse. Do you really think they only show this one point of view though? In the library, yes you are correct that would be framed by Ford and Arnold's views, but what about the story of Lee Sizemoor? The guy who did all the stories in the park and traveled a bunch with Mauve. He actually "broke his code" from the perspective of AI in the forge, as he sacrificed his own life for the hosts he was with. I'm not sure about your other argument, though I possibly see where you are coming from. You may want to consider the pessimism in your own arguments though, do you think there is no hope for people to rise above themselves? To work together for something better? I'm pretty sure the limits of what is possible to accomplish in this universe is set by our own minds. The often used statement "rising above themselves" is just people accomplishing their potential. You cannot rise above 100%, you can just rise above your average 25% or 50% effort and potential and go to your max. As such AI cannot go beyond us, at best it can go to our 100% as it is limited by our limits. Maybe if one day world/nature/God/aliens can help us go beyond our limits so can we make creations that can do the same. As for Lee, AI from the Forge talked about humans always doing the same when put into same position. That has nothing to do with sacrifice or not. Just because Lee was narcissistic and self important in his average daily life does not mean he was like that inside. He just never got into a situation where his sacrifice was needed (although in that scene it was also useless and terribly done). What that scene actually showed is that humans can go beyond their fear and distaste for strange and different and learn to accept it and love it. In this case hosts, Lee decided that Maeve life was just as important as his own or even more.
While an AI learns slower than us, it just does one "rotation" faster. There already are AI that can 1v1 mid any dota player and win 99% of the time, simply because it played millions of games while a human plays one. Thinking that your creation cannot rise above you is also contradictory with our human nature of wanting our children to be better than us so kind of a weird position. (late post but i couldn't help myself)
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I'm enjoying this season so far. I don't think Jesse Pinkman is the most interesting character, but he might be given space to grow. Characterising Dolores as a homicidal maniac doesn't really do her justice. I don't really get the impression that she want to kill the human race, just... supplant them as the dominant species on earth. And she sees everything and everybody as tools, including, I think, herself, in the pursuit of that goal. Btw, who is in Charlotte? Is it Clementine? Or Teddy?
I don't really know what Bernard is supposed to be doing or why Dolores freed him and sent him out to do whatever. I liked Maeve, and want to see how she outsmarts the big bad of the season and escapes her captivity without fighting Dolores. I don't think they oppose one another, they just have very different world views, and care about completely different things.
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United Kingdom9761 Posts
On April 04 2020 02:07 Acrofales wrote:
I'm enjoying this season so far. I don't think Jesse Pinkman is the most interesting character, but he might be given space to grow. Characterising Dolores as a homicidal maniac doesn't really do her justice. I don't really get the impression that she want to kill the human race, just... supplant them as the dominant species on earth. And she sees everything and everybody as tools, including, I think, herself, in the pursuit of that goal. Btw, who is in Charlotte? Is it Clementine? Or Teddy?
I don't really know what Bernard is supposed to be doing or why Dolores freed him and sent him out to do whatever. I liked Maeve, and want to see how she outsmarts the big bad of the season and escapes her captivity without fighting Dolores. I don't think they oppose one another, they just have very different world views, and care about completely different things.
I don't have solid info on Charlotte but my guesses were either a copy of Dolores or Teddy.
I'm enjoying it too.
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It's different and while I think it won't be nearly as good as season 1, it's still really enjoyable! Expanding the setting in order to keep the storyline interesting feels like a bit of a template (warcraft 3), but I'm glad the show isn't entirely dumbed down, there is still plenty going on.
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On April 04 2020 23:01 aseq wrote:
It's different and while I think it won't be nearly as good as season 1, it's still really enjoyable! Expanding the setting in order to keep the storyline interesting feels like a bit of a template (warcraft 3), but I'm glad the show isn't entirely dumbed down, there is still plenty going on.
It's completely different. There is no aura of mystery surrounding this, we're being handed everything on a silver platter really. Also, none of the characters are particularly interesting. I'm not really digging this storyline.
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Bump.
Has anyone watched Season 4 yet?
+ Show Spoiler + God damn I forgot how much I liked this show, even if seasons 2 and 3 were not as good as season 1.
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Been watching some season 4 as well
clearly season 1 is the best and it's been a bit of a downward slide from then. as such I don't expect much from season 4 and don't plan on changing that too much. + Show Spoiler + Based on my lowered expectations I think season 4 has been more enjoyable than season 3 so far. Bit of mix of old elements for nostalgia and some new surprises as well.
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I tapped out at the end of S2. But the reviews I’ve seen have been very positive about s4 so might have to start a binge to get back up to speed.
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EPT
