Dark Tournament Mini Mafia - Page 48

In this game, Bill Murray was mafia. He started by nuking (basically an in-thread vigilante shot that hits at the end of the cycle) Trfel, and then nuking marvellosity (the latter being a fake nuke) for questionable reasons. He later started playing the game more seriously and many people thought he was town (some reasons being that he was too scummy to be scum, he was extremely crazy, randomly nuking was a bad play from mafia that wouldn't be beneficial, etc).
There's some additional reasoning to this scum read, but it's not important to the point I'm trying to make; feel free to read it for yourself, it's a great read. The bold emphasis is my own, this is the idea that I'm trying to get across: if there is a post that cannot come from a town mindset/perspective, it makes the poster mafia. Note that this is often unrelated to whether the post is objectively good or bad ("objectively good" play is explained reads, explained changes in reads, everything makes sense, etc... "objectively bad" play is the opposite, however these things are both not so helpful for catching mafia).

Ver said this to further explain the scum read:Bill Murray's story didn't match for two reasons.
1. He nuked Trfel for having a small filter and low activity. Right after that, he something like "Wow, I should have nuked Palmar. Guy has even less activity than Trfel." Then, he later nuked marvellosity.

First, this is bad play because he didn't consider all of his options before using his nuke and the reason he used his nuke is awful (play so bad that it's a bit scummy, but doesn't make him scum). Second, he was suspicious enough of Trfel to nuke him, then he said that Palmar was even worse. But didn't nuke Palmar. And nuked marvellosity later. If he actually had two nukes, why did he not nuke Palmar, if that was more than enough suspicion to justify a nuke? This again doesn't completely make him mafia IMO, there's an extremely small chance that Bill Murray would be town with two nukes and is willing to fire off one of them at random and actually cares to save the second for the best moment. He's very scummy, but not confirmed scum.

2. After firing two nukes and playing poorly/insanely for the reasons described above, Bill Murray calmed down, apologized, and then started playing seriously. His reads and play were actually "objectively good" as described before. However, this is what actually makes him 100% mafia. Town can play badly, town can nuke people at random. Town can also play well and try to solve the game to the best of their ability. But town can NOT play badly and use their role to shoot people at random, nonsensically, and then stop and try to play seriously and solve the game. These two things do not line up and cannot possibly come from the same person. The contradiction makes Bill Murray 100% mafia.

One final note, while I didn't say quite what Ver said, it's in the same spirit:

Marvellosity was the last catch for Ver. Here's some of his scumread on marvellosity:If you see something that makes no sense from a town mindset, then the person is probably mafia.

Scared to check role pm -> scared of rolling town

Here is MoosyDoosy's filter. To be complete, I should quote every post after he checks his role pm, but that's stupid. Here are a few posts that best describe my point.
This post was made three minutes after MoosyDoosy checked his role pm. Given how big of a deal he made over checking his role pm (took him 23 minutes between first mentioning it and checking his role pm), how much he hates playing town, and that he was upset when he claimed to have read his town role pm, he should still be upset three minutes later. Instead, he's happily talking about the game.In case there's any doubt, three minutes later.His last post of Day 1. Very interesting, he did a bunch of work (as he claims) and is happy? Not expected from a person who hates playing town.

This very strongly suggests that MoosyDoosy is mafia. I cannot see these posts coming from the same perspective/mindset as MoosyDoosy showed pre-game and at the start of the game through reading his role pm, so the only option is that MoosyDoosy rolled mafia.

I know, you're saying "but MoosyDoosy is useless as town, he never displays any desire to solve the game! This is NAI!" First, you're wrong. But second, remember this is the "minimal meta" section, and having no desire to solve the game is almost always mafia indicative.

Here are all of MoosyDoosy's posts in the game that can possibly be seen as trying to solve the game. Being very nice here.
+ Show Spoiler +
These kind of statements are always very subjective, but I personally feel that MoosyDoosy does nothing at all to move the game forward and shows no desire to solve the game at all. The posts about Rels are completely useless. Excluding those, and taking only the best of MoosyDoosy's comments, along with why they show no desire to solve the game:
Criticizing this post is a perfectly valid thing to do. MoosyDoosy doesn't have any push, however. There is no followup on anything else about me (Trfel). He doesn't come to a conclusion about me, he basically just says "here, yours!" and throws it at Damdred and Palmar. Basically making suspicion and letting someone else do the work while waiting in the corner and watching.Suddenly MoosyDoosy is talking about The Shining. Okay. No conclusion about this either.So he has a lot of townreads and doesn't want to say them. They haven't been mentioned at all yet. Okay...What does MoosyDoosy think about disformation's alignment? I assume that he thinks disformation is town because of the "lots of townreads" post and the fact that he doesn't actually do the advice that he suggests here, however why doesn't he say that disformation is town and/or why he thinks so?He said that he liked Damdred's earlier post, here he suggests that Damdred is scum. Either this is a joke (and therefore not solving the game) or he's not caring to explain or investigate his read at all (not solving the game).

It's not that MoosyDoosy is not being very useful, it's that even for having just a few posts that can actually be maybe seen as doing something, they're all focused on different people. There's no followup, no conclusions at all, nothing that requires thinking, nothing that seems to be solving the game.

You can read his filter for yourself.

This also extremely strongly suggests that MoosyDoosy is mafia. Again, most meta arguments will be addressed later.

For this game, I'll be taking only Day 1 quotes. Two reasons. First, MoosyDoosy only played Day 1 in the current game. Second, MoosyDoosy was nearly lynched on Day 1 in Newbie Student Mafia XVII, and his Day 2 play was much more involved and useful.
This post came quite early in Day 1, later clarified to be his mafia list. Before this, MoosyDoosy voted for FarahBlackwing, and asked questions to disformation and The Shining. However, his reads are still almost entirely unexplained. I note that this post alone shows more desire to solve the game than MoosyDoosy's entire filter in this game.Instead of asking other people what they think about a post, he makes his own conclusion and pushes it.This game clearly shows that MoosyDoosy is actually trying to solve the game and that he's invested in it. He's still martyring and still being obnoxious, but that doesn't stop him from pushing his reads and trying to solve the game. It's completely different from the play MoosyDoosy showed in this game.He acknowledge this himself.

There are a bunch more quotes, you can see for yourself. I think that this is really obvious.

Conclusion: MoosyDoosy was trying to solve the game.

MoosyDoosy was lynched on Day 2 in this game. Therefore, I will attempt to separate his investment and desire to solve the game for Day 1 and Night 1-Day 2 to show the comparison to his filter this game and also the part that resulted in him getting lynched.

All of these posts came in the first 1 hour 20 minutes of the game. And they already show way more desire to solve the game than MoosyDoosy showed this game.

When questioned, he pushed his suspicion of boxerfred.Then there's a townread on Rels, and then he continues to push boxerfred.As far as Day 1 goes, MoosyDoosy is clearly invested and trying to solve the game. Huge contrast to the current game. From this point I will start looking to see what changed, and what resulted in him getting lynched (using only his filter).

In general, on Day 1 it's clear that MoosyDoosy cares about the lynch. His filter is centered on his biggest suspect, boxerfred (discussing and pushing his read), but he's also discussing townreads and other suspects. He ended up sheeping other people for the Day 1 lynch, but it's obvious that he was invested in the game. He didn't yell and scream, but you can tell that he cared despite not voting for his biggest suspect. If you don't believe me, compare it to his play in this game; it's still night and day.

MoosyDoosy's sheeping (seems like he had his own reasons to think it was a good lynch though) led him to lynch scott31337, and he flipped town.Still trying to solve the game.I'm guessing that this is where people start wanting to lynch him...Here's the post he makes after being gone for a while. He's definitely trying to solve the game. He ends up getting lynched, and to be honest I actually don't know why. His play didn't completely make sense, but that's not scum indicative and it seems really clear that he was trying to solve the game and was invested.

Like, actually what the heck. I'm pretty sure that I was told that this was a game to look at to see one of MoosyDoosy's worst games?Without the context, I'm not sure if I can agree or disagree, but from MoosyDoosy's perspective this statement is 100% correct; he was trying to solve the game and putting in a lot of effort.

Conclusion: this is extremely different from MoosyDoosy's play in this game. MoosyDoosy demonstrated a desire to solve the game throughout.

First post of the game has some actual reads.Already, he's shown much more desire to solve the game than he showed in the current game. They are completely different, there is really no comparison.
He has a 10 page filter. I'm at page 4. He didn't get lynched this game. I don't need to read any more, he's already shown that he's trying to solve the game and it's completely different play from this game.