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On November 08 2015 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 08 2015 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 01:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 08 2015 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 08 2015 01:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 08 2015 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis why do you want to change the team if you think i am town? Because I think Rels is mafia and you are town. If Rels is mafia why do both of SL and Xatalos say they will vote no? To look better and/or because they scumread Rels of course. Why do they not change their read on Rels based on what i said? Actually Xatalos doesn't even scumread Rels... Or like, he has three other people who are "more likely to be mafia than Rels", yet he STILL wants to downvote the team. Well, I'm willing to add Rels if you're that confident. But if he ends up being scum I will blame you postgame  the thing is if the mission somehow gets sabotaged, people will blame me. and i will get mad for it. and both of the possible mafia (SL/Xata) don't want the team (excluding me) to go anyways. I think it is just better play, and i think Rels is not mafia. You can blame me post game if he is scum.
Oh that's why you were angry when I got back to the thread and called you mafia =D
I'm not that sure you were the mafia in the team. I might have been influenced by all the things you said about me though; but our reads aren't that different, except for Shockey and Arta. So if you're town, please think about it:
- every game, you're the reason a bad town gets mislynched. I've use this tendency of you in the two scum games I had. Think about it; why would Shockey act like that if he was scum ? What it the motivation ?
- likewise, what is the motivation of Arta of putting me in a team when he seems magicly convinced I'm scum (unless I missed his "Rels is scum") post ?
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On November 08 2015 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would like you to tell us why i am mafia.
I'm not that sure anymore, but here is my problems with your play:
- your read on me is not logical. I understand that's OMGUS that I will let that pass EXCEPT that post where you say my play here is "boring" and comparing my town play to my noobking push. I've explained in length why it is not true, and you should have known that.
- you're leading the thread, and that scares me. The first team included you; the second team was a suggestion of you (?) or at least a team you were OK with; and that Arta's team is a straigth up order from you.
- you were part of a failure team; you voted YES to this failure team.
- Arta putting a scumread of his in his nomination is super scummy; if you're scum, you're scum with Arta, and that's why he's listening to you. Why are you townreading the guy ?
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HTS you mentioned two times you will do a shallowness evaluation of Xata to know his alignement. But you didn't do it; you hard townread it before the failure; and you are now scumreading it. All of this happened without any shallowness analysis.
1 - Did I miss it ?
2 - If not, why are you scumreading him without it ? And will you do it ?
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Shockey I would like your input on this.
On November 06 2015 18:34 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 08:56 ShoCkeyy wrote:On November 06 2015 08:53 Xatalos wrote:On November 06 2015 08:48 Xatalos wrote:On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Hmmm... I guess there is an explanation at least.... Of some sort... So if I got this right... shockeyy would only vote for missions where there's one of me/rayn, but not both......? shockeyy? Yes, but if you used your brain, you would understand why... If both of you are on a mission together and one mission gets sabotaged, then it's hard to differentiate wether or not you both sabotaged it. If you go on solo missions, rather than together, it makes it easier to see if you or rayn are mafia. Obviously you both got you wanted and are now butt buddies on the same team. OK. Shockey, your way of thinking doesn't make sense in this game. The primary goal is not to find scums, it's to win three missions. If you vote three missions with one scum each to "find out the scums", you solve the game; but you lose it in the same time.Now I'm not saying this makes you scum. Actually that's a town mindset: solving the game by finding out who is scum. But even if it's super captivating, it's flawed. You win by winning three missions. If you push your reasonning, it's better to vote yes to a team that has two scums inside than one scum inside, since you can get rid of these three players and have a good shot of winning the next three missions. I think it's twisted, since the goal of the game is to win missions, and finding scums is the way to achieve it, not the opposite; but I see the town motivation behind it. Please think about it. Pushing for teams with only one scum in it is exactly what scums want.
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Arta's read evolution on me:
On November 05 2015 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Need to re-eval rels more when I actually have a pc and can compare filters. Moving him back to null/fear read though.
Null read - need evaluation.
On November 06 2015 06:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 06:22 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 02:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 05 2015 22:29 Half the Sky wrote:On the topic of Artanis, I know he said he'd free up more Thursday so I look forward to reading more from him. Can't recall if he has capoeira today though, IRL he has been on a tear with that. Which means if he drops by in the UK, his first objective will be to dropkick me. Damn it.  Nope, I'm gonna mostly have time for the next four hours. I may drop by to dropkick you anyway though  On November 05 2015 07:23 Rels wrote:On November 05 2015 06:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Oh jesus rels is involved in everything as mafia too x_x How do you know I'm involved in everything as town as well ? I'm pretty sure we never played together ?? Two things: A) I assume most people have far more involved town games than scumgames. My townread on you came from the fact that you seem very active and involved in almost every discussion. That's generally enough to townread most players. B) I have seen you play town before, though I haven't played with you. I'm not sure which game I was observing anymore but I have done so. Also C) I never called you scum. I said you're back to null because what I thought made you town is apparently not alignment indicative. OK that makes sense. Security check: can you link me to the game in question ? All my games are in my profile so that should take you like 5 seconds. Im also pretty sure you said you would be reading my filter and evaluating me. Will you do it, or are you pulling a Hts ? Student Mafia XVI. I was a coach there too. I did kinda evaluate you, though not as thoroughly yet as I need to. I also want to know why you suddenly decided to re-eval Rayn.
Didn't finish the eval. Rels why did you re evaluate rayn ?
On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm kind of around but at work. Not much to say until we find out if the mission passes or not honestly. If it does, I'm obviously nominating myself with the other three. Don't want to say too much about it before the pass/fail happens to not give any clues to any spy whether they should sabotage or not.
@Rels/HtS your explanations were satisfactory, though I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.
Rels, your explanation was satisfactory.
On November 06 2015 19:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2015 19:42 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 19:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 06 2015 19:25 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 19:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 06 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 19:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 06 2015 19:08 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 19:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 06 2015 19:01 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads. Because I just don't understand the point of the post you made. Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result. I just don't really get why you're going into scenario's where you'll never be able to discern which is which though. Like I said; being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible You list the possible scenarios, but I'm pretty sure everyone's already figured that if the 3-person mission passes and the 4-person mission fails, it is in fact possible for one of the people in the 3-person mission to still be a spy. Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game. Well yes, determining the alignment of the 4th player when there's a 3-success then 4-fail is probably important. It just seems like you went for a pretty.. roundabout way of approaching it? Eh, whatever, it's not that important I guess. I kinda wanna hear more from you about Rayn and SL, but I think it's best to wait for the results first. LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline. How are you ever going to determine if the team is clean though? This is what I didn't get from your analysis. Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team. So, your analysis decided that if a 3-player team passes and a 4-player team fails, we need behaviour and vote analysis to determine whether the 4th player is scum or town, and thus decide whether the 3-player team is clean or not. I think you may be on to something here.
(after a back and forth) You made a post that didn't say anything.
On November 07 2015 18:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted. Why do you suddenly think Rels is town?
On November 07 2015 19:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 19:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 07 2015 18:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted. Why do you suddenly think Rels is town? Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum. I can see it making sense. When scum scumread players on the suggested team, they can't yayvote regardless of what they want. Shockey scumread you and xata and rels scumread you and SL. Even if they wanted to yayvote, they couldn't given their reads. Though I guess I can see how Rels' scumread on both of you came after the team was already nominated, so it was a choice and he didn't really need to turn around and do that. I need to check if he scumread SL before the team was suggested now.
On November 07 2015 19:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Yeah Rels had been suspicious of SL a lot already so there was no way he could vote yes to the mission.
Sudden scumread ?
On November 07 2015 19:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 09:52 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 09:45 Xatalos wrote:On November 07 2015 09:16 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 08:00 Fidei86 wrote:
!!! MISSION FAILED !!!
1 Sabotage action detected.
Day 2
Artanis[Xp]'s Nomination Phase
Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 7 November 2015. Alright then we have at least one scum in Xata / rayn / SL. Then I think we have at the very least 2 scums in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, maybe 3. I think that's a reasonable assumption... But rayn is most likely town, so I guess that would mean HTS, Artanis and SL would be scum? Kind of hard to see at least Artanis being scum, HTS maybe. So I'd guess there are 1+ scum hiding in the NO votes as well. Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both. But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible. Okay, hold up, timeline: 1. Rels considered SL scummy. 2. Rels started considering Rayn scummy. 3. Rels still considered SL scummy. 4. Mission fails. 5. Rels considers SL obvious town because he's being set up by Rayn. What happened between 3 and 5 that made you think it's MORE likely for SL to be town after the mission fails?
Here is a thing Rels did that was weird.
On November 07 2015 22:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels. I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata)
Rels has a good chance of being scum.
This makes no sense. I'm null - need eval; since then:
- Arta commented on two weird things I did from his POV
- I voted NO to a failure team
and I have a good chance of being scum ?
Artanis. Explain yourself.
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On November 08 2015 04:07 Rels wrote:
HTS you mentioned two times you will do a shallowness evaluation of Xata to know his alignement. But you didn't do it; you hard townread it before the failure; and you are now scumreading it. All of this happened without any shallowness analysis.
1 - Did I miss it ?
2 - If not, why are you scumreading him without it ? And will you do it ?
On mobile.
I took a comparison of scumreads in response to Kita's question and I made two posts and a few points.
I cited the specific posts in my filter and asked people to comment.
Superbia looked in it IIRC and couldn't make up his mind on Xata.
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I think the scum team is HTS / Arta / XX. XX being one of Xata / rayn / SL.
I have a hard time seeing HTS and rayn together; it's possible but unlikely, especially given rayn's view on bussing in this setup. I also have a hard time seeing HTS and Xata together, seeing how HTS just attacked Xata. So SL is the most likely.
The thing is Arta / rayn makes some sense. No hesitation to call the other town; and Artanis accepting a team rayn suggests that contains one of his scumread. If I'm wrong on HTS, the team is rayn / Arta / (Xata or Superbia). The third member is a problem; Xata being scum would mean two scums in the team which is subobtimal; and Superbia voted NO to the damn team.
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On November 08 2015 04:21 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 04:07 Rels wrote:
HTS you mentioned two times you will do a shallowness evaluation of Xata to know his alignement. But you didn't do it; you hard townread it before the failure; and you are now scumreading it. All of this happened without any shallowness analysis.
1 - Did I miss it ?
2 - If not, why are you scumreading him without it ? And will you do it ? On mobile. I took a comparison of scumreads in response to Kita's question and I made two posts and a few points. I cited the specific posts in my filter and asked people to comment. Superbia looked in it IIRC and couldn't make up his mind on Xata.
I assume it's this then:
On November 07 2015 22:18 Half the Sky wrote:sicklucker, I did some digging in Xatalos' filter. This was his reason for PoEing you out as the scum in the mission team. Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 09:25 Xatalos wrote:
Mehh... I guess there's the very slight argument against rayn that he so easily townread Superbia when I got the opposite impression from the events... I just kind of don't think rayn would go out of his way to townread Superbia in that situation as scum, no matter what Superbia is. From what I remember, he scumread very aggressively in the VS game as scum (for not-so-good reasons as well), but didn't have many townreads at all. Meanwhile in the last Vanilla game as town he gave away townreads very easily (especially the townreads to me, Vivax and ritoky right away). So this basically falls more into his town play than scum play, I think. Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 09:31 Xatalos wrote:Yeah, I like how rayn approaches the all-scum nomination thing. He even warns me not to talk about it when I come to the thread I don't think there's any scum motivation in preventing discussion about that topic. Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 09:37 Xatalos wrote:
I guess it has to be SL.... I just don't see the scum motivation in rayn's filter. He's very "balanced", considering a lot of options and not just pushing a single agenda like in the VS game (lynch rsoultin D1 -> lynch me D2). Plus the contents of the last two posts about him.. What are your thoughts on this? (I have some, but as you were on the failed mission team I want to hear yours.)
On November 07 2015 22:28 Half the Sky wrote:Actually I missed this quote about Xatalos' read on you SL. Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 08:53 Xatalos wrote:I guess SL's position on me and the missions is somewhat unnatural. He first scumreads me for not 100% townreading him at first... But he'd still want to go on a mission during my leadership, and even include me on the second mission if the first mission passed. On November 04 2015 20:35 sicklucker wrote:
Its also not me being biased the chart says were the top 3 towns more or less as no one scum reads us. I know you town read artanis so from your pov if your town submitting that team makes sense.
No one understands the logic of putting yourself in the team better then me but you also need that team to pass and its only attempt 2 of 5 so people are still very picky like me. Also if the said mission passes it would make a likely town circle of 4 people rather then 3 im not totally sure the mechanics but that seems like a good spot to be in. Not really sure what his read on me was at this point? Still scum? Null? It kind of feels like it's a town lean or something already. And then when he's included with me and rayn, I'm very likely town...? On November 05 2015 09:08 sicklucker wrote:
oh i liked the xatalos filter thing. i think we should pass this its very likely 3 towns from my pov Would be very curious to hear about this read progression on me. Ugh, the sad part here is that I could see both of you playing suboptimally here too. I don't think Xata should have had the reads he did on rayn, post-failure, the first two quotes he posted are IMO NAI, the second quote especially for anyone of either alignment who knows the game well can talk about the scum-packing strategy. (Kita did as well and I know I disregarded that as NAI and was townreading him on other things.) The problem here is that when I read your filter, I can actually understand your progression on Xatalos. That actually makes Xatalos worse to me and thus of the three, the most likely scum.
On November 07 2015 22:40 Half the Sky wrote:
Right now, I actually think based on Xatalos post-mission failure posts there's a decent chance he might be the sabotaging player. Anyone who comes in later today, read post 1618 and 1625 and tell me what you think.
So Xata is scum because he townreads rayn too easily after the failure, and questioned SL's read evolution on him when it was apprently clear. There is no shallow stuff analysis. You felt this was enough to not warrant one ?
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Rels
It's a start, it is not a full analysis. I went through SLs read progression and it seemed fine to me and whilst Rayn is stubborn as fuck he's probably town. That is the start.
I mean here's the thing, first missions failing means town are doing very badly, you haven't played resistance so you probably may not realise this but scum having the gumption to fail the first mission means we are having a shit time or going to have a shit time figuring out the scum in mission 1 and its showing.
For obvious reasons I'm going to have little to no say on the team so I am left with making sure my vote is a good one.
I have to do an analysis on you at SOME point because as far as I'm concerned, town are playing a 5v3 game and if you (and especially Shockey) are town, this game is over. Because I will never make any mission team I either need to get out of a tunnel on you or fail to find town motivation in you or Xatalos.
I've cased Xata before in another game, and I know you did some activity based analysis on Xata being town. However I know that activity meta CAN be broken and two of the games you cited his Mafia games were post restricted games (Carol, assassination) which is why I felt the read quality meta would be more effective.
Now I need to actually get to doing it. I am trying to find pockets of time to work on one or the other. And I'm trying to not get discouraged despite rayn's overall toxicity to this game. I won't be the last.
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Let me see if I can explain in more simple terms.
Town failing first mission means we are doing very badly and generally in most situations most spies (at least in RL) don't have gumption to fail the first mission.
The fact there is a failure and his lack of scepticism is a red flag, sicklucker I feel has an excellent point on assuming too easy of a fall guy. Do you think the least town read person, if scum is going to give himself away like that?
Maybe people aren't understanding me but that is my perspective from having played in RL and the way this game is going, it goes against PPA but this is how townie looking scum win games. You have to look at all angles.
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ebwop
PPA - percentage play analysis
I need to get to a PC but it's not happening until after deadline.
Also people if I'm missing any questions (even yours Rels) flag me please. Even if I never get on a team if people can understand my direction on things, haphazard as it might be at least you'll consider the fact other people might be Mafia. (At least Superbia understood for a second why I'm playing a suboptimal game.)
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And yes I thought I'd have more time today on the PC but I don't. Damn me.
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On November 08 2015 03:18 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Last time i am going to post this:
Here is why ShoCkeyy is mafia:First of all these things go together: + Show Spoiler +On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Xatalos is null -> that means he has to townread the people i colored green in the post. There is no other possible way he says this. On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
ShoCkeyy do you agree you, kitaman and Rels should go to the first mission? Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Townreads on kitaman and Rels. On November 04 2015 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote:
@kita you summed it up here:
"He doesn't seem comfortable giving out statements which he isn't confident about. This could either mean that truly isn't sure and wants more time until it is clear or that he doesn't want to make a statement that could backfire later on in the game."
And also, I have been looking into rayn's previous games. Another thing, I don't need to be on a team, I already know I'm town, so when ever I do get on a team I'll be a 33% chance that it will pass. My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Look at the bolded part in this post for further reference. On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 20:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Since this worked so well for me last time I'm gonna go and do it again. Reads of X on Y below: ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/l8XDS/c5b4b0ac75.png) Things of note after I went through the filters: -Superbia doesn't have many opinions at all. I don't like it. He was honed into one thing and one thing alone for a while and didn't really come to anything from it. -I actually came off with a pretty strong townread on sl from it, which I was surprised by. He seems very open and aggressive in his posting which I didn't get from him when he was scum. Seems to actually be trying to do stuff. -Surprised so many people scumread Rels still. He seems really active to me and pushing things. Can people explain this? -Still actually kinda leaning scum on HtS. She seems highly defensive, and in hindsight I still don't really like how she mentioned how I didn't have much time, yet still tried to push a fear read based on not doing much. Also, Rayn should be on whichever next mission. I also find it odd that shockeyy's actually suspicious of him, I'm not sure that's actually a good play as mafia to do but eh. Could be newbie scum I suppose. You missed that I town read you and rels also. Another thing, why would I say I don't need to get on a team if I was mafia? Wouldn't I want to be on a team if I was mafia in order to sabotage?... You guys don't make any sense. I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work. Now from these posts we can gather the following: Everyone except rayn/Xatalos/sicklucker is townreads. I don't give a fuck if the dude says "i didn't actually say that" because that is just bullshit. If he townreads five people and he is himself town that literally means he thinks the rest of the people are likely to be mafia. Now let's go to this, what i bolded earlier: My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Okay so in his opinion, he has found the townies. This doesn't go along with how he ACTUALLY votes for the HtS team. For two reasons: 1) He "knows" there is scum on the team. In fact he should assume there is two scum (me/Xatalos). Yet he still votes yes, while earlier on saying he will refuse that team. 2) Now if he wants to be "tricky" and yay-vote the team because there are 2 scum in it, that would be okay. But that's not why he says he yay-voted it (i could have somehow understood that explanation). To elaborate further onto this all. Shockeyy was okay with there being 1 scum on the team while saying his current focus is finding town -- that doesn't really go along with what he said earlier. A reasonable explanation for the yay-vote should have been "in fact it's better that there are 2 or even 3 scum on the team, as long as we don't send any of those people onto further mission". That's not however his explanation. This entire section is based on the assumption that the first team contained rayn / Xata. Unless I've been mistaken for a few days, the first team was HTS / Superbia / rayn. Why made you think the first team was Xata / rayn / (I assume HTS) ? Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Onto Xatalos' team. In Shockeyy's opinion this mission had three scum in it. Yet he refused to yay-vote it. Again, his stance is: On November 05 2015 23:58 ShoCkeyy wrote:Idk why it's so hard for people to understand I knew the votes would be visible... Also it's not hard to look through my filter. On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. The lineup when I voted was HtS, Xata and Kita, which I was perfectly fine with. Also, a bit more on my strategy. Losing the first one is a big deal to me, because then we have 1 out of 3 that have to be mafia. We just do not ever send any of them to any missions. After there will be three missions that are ready to be won since the fourth one needs at least 2 mafia members and we know of already one by then who hasn't gone on any other missions. Obviously there will be two more, as well, but with this game dragging out, it'll eventually be easy to spot them. ... now if he actually believes all of me/Xatalos/SL are mafia, he should upvote this team. Just because then we don't send any of them into further mission --> the town wins, since the town will automatically pick 4 town whoever they pick. Then when the mission passes, the same team gets picked again. Then when the mission passes who cares who is picked onto mission 4. The other possibility is he doesn't actually townread the people he says he townreads, which also doesn't make any sense. Dont' know how you can arguee voting NO to a team you think contains three scums is scum indicative. At least I didn't get it reading this. Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- His approach to how he votes doesn't line up with WHY he acts in some way in some situations and in another way in other situations.
- He doesn't really give any reasoning to his reads. The only reasoning he gives is the scumreads on me and Xatalos, and "he is angry", "they are in the thread at the same time", "they both suspected Rels" is not a reason to scumread anyone.
- When he is called out of his reads, he says "i didn't really call you scum" -- i think everyone can see why this is literally bullshit, kitaman already pointed this out. The only scum indicative thing here is the "I didn't really call you scum" part, which could be seen as scum not wanting to commit to a read. The first one is logical from his POV (if the first team go and fails, rayn is confirmed scum; then voting NO to an all scum team). The second one doesn't mean anything unless it's also a meta read ? Well I was not convinced. And you don't talk about the fact that: - shockey is playing to lose if he's scum, as a team with him has a very small chance to be accepted - he voted NO to a team containing one scum. It's just not logical he's still your #1 scumread (if he's not anymore, my bad)
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On November 08 2015 04:05 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would like you to tell us why i am mafia. I'm not that sure anymore, but here is my problems with your play: - your read on me is not logical. I understand that's OMGUS that I will let that pass EXCEPT that post where you say my play here is "boring" and comparing my town play to my noobking push. I've explained in length why it is not true, and you should have known that. - you're leading the thread, and that scares me. The first team included you; the second team was a suggestion of you (?) or at least a team you were OK with; and that Arta's team is a straigth up order from you. - you were part of a failure team; you voted YES to this failure team. - Arta putting a scumread of his in his nomination is super scummy; if you're scum, you're scum with Arta, and that's why he's listening to you. Why are you townreading the guy ?
can you see why this is super bad?
none of the reasons you point out here actually make me mafia.
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anyways i am leaving now.
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okay one more thing.
Rels.... stop being a dumbass if you are town. Yo uas scumreading me for reasons like "you are trying to lead the thread" and "you were on the mission that failed".
Again. Stop being retarded if you are town, because my patience is soon wearing out...
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last game you literally scumread a top townie because they made a really fucking good case on scum. you managed to ignore that case and instead thought the person who made the case is mafia. think for a while.
please.
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i am not giving you options.
shape up or get scumread.
you'll hear about this post-game if you are town.
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On November 08 2015 05:10 Half the Sky wrote:
ebwop
PPA - percentage play analysis
I need to get to a PC but it's not happening until after deadline.
Also people if I'm missing any questions (even yours Rels) flag me please. Even if I never get on a team if people can understand my direction on things, haphazard as it might be at least you'll consider the fact other people might be Mafia. (At least Superbia understood for a second why I'm playing a suboptimal game.)
On November 08 2015 03:33 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote:
Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better.
Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on.
Enjoy the concert though. I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true. But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now. So, if only to ease me, can you answer ? Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 09:18 Rels wrote:On November 07 2015 08:10 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright, I know I said sicklucker was the most likely since he was the "least town" but I think especially because the first mission (!!!) failed, it really might be worth our while to tinfoil rayn and Xatalos to make sure we didn't miss anything. Can you explain this ? On November 06 2015 18:22 Rels wrote:On November 06 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:
Ah got it James. <3
I'd say at least 2. I think maayyyybe one was smart enough to suck it up and pass? Could be SL for all we know.
And that's a really good question to Shockey, Xata. That doesn't make sense. If SL is mafia and "suck it up and pass" the team, then he didn't "suck it up", he voted "yes" to a team with a scum in it. You seem to assume: - SL is town, since you're wondering whether 2 or 3 mafias voted against it, so it has to be a clean team - SL is mafia, since he could have suck it up and pass Or is there another logical explanation for this post ? 'cause I'm not seeing it
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On November 08 2015 05:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 04:05 Rels wrote:On November 08 2015 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I would like you to tell us why i am mafia. I'm not that sure anymore, but here is my problems with your play: - your read on me is not logical. I understand that's OMGUS that I will let that pass EXCEPT that post where you say my play here is "boring" and comparing my town play to my noobking push. I've explained in length why it is not true, and you should have known that. - you're leading the thread, and that scares me. The first team included you; the second team was a suggestion of you (?) or at least a team you were OK with; and that Arta's team is a straigth up order from you. - you were part of a failure team; you voted YES to this failure team. - Arta putting a scumread of his in his nomination is super scummy; if you're scum, you're scum with Arta, and that's why he's listening to you. Why are you townreading the guy ? can you see why this is super bad? none of the reasons you point out here actually make me mafia.
Except it does. Everyone is talking about how good your scum game is. If you're scum, you're playing the perfect game; failed mission 1, but still being townread by quite a few people. I accepted being scumread for reason like "Rels is not so bad to scumread me with this stupid meta read; therefore he's scum". But your "boring" case on me was super forced.
And you didn't answer the crucial part. Why is Arta town ? The guy scumreads me for no reason, then puts me in his team because you asked him to.
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EPT
