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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: but you want to send your scumread from mission one. Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that: - didn't include them - failed If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:37 Rels wrote: Look, you asked me a question, I answered. I would prefer anyone to HTS / Arta who both voted for a team that: - didn't include them - failed If you had asked me "what team would I send", I wouldn't answer the same way. well if you think i am the mafia from mission one you should never want to send me onto a mission over anyone who was not on the first mission. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: well if you think i am the mafia from mission one you should never want to send me onto a mission over anyone who was not on the first mission. You are the most likely mafia atm. I could be wrong. What I know if there is a big chance HTS / Arta are both scum, and 99% one of them is scum; the 1% being the situation where two scums were on the team D1. I cannot imagine two scums voting NO to a team containing a scum, especially since the vote was that close. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
like real opinions? gameplaywise? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: - Your read on ShoCkeyy is basically "he does scummy things so he is town" - Your read on me at the start of the game - Your push on Superbia - You not considering kitaman scum, when there was really no reason to think he is town - There are more things after you posted here, but they are irrelevant to this. Basically all this is in my filter. Yet you are incapable of finding these things out on your own. I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here. Every point on this list has been explained: - shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game". - my push on you at the start of the game was logical; - Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point - I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: You were on the list because the proposal was literally towards you, kitaman and Shockeyy. I am not calling you scum for it. What the fuck are you even talking about? If i do a reaction test towards three people it's only natural i post what i learned ON THOSE THREE PEOPLE...... Like are you stupid or something? OK that's fair. On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i can think think that. I also used to try to antagonize marv in every game i was scum in, just because i wanted to throw him off his game until he lynches me, until i stopped doing that. It's like... defending your actions that do not make any sense by saying "i wouldn't do that as scum" is really weak Rels. It is a fact you, at the start of the game, read me scum for something you weren't even sure is true (and it wasn't). That's not how townies usually operate. You don't "guess" if something (that can be proven) is true and call people scum for it. That is just stupid. Furthermore you were trying to prove my meta wrong by using a game where you were a third faction. Because you were anti-town doesn't mean you were playing to your scum meta, especially when i fucking know you were LEGIT TRYING TO SCUMHUNT IN THAT GAME!!!! I'm not you though. And I was sure copcake was mafia in that game. But OK, as long as you say "it's possible" and not "it makes you scum" it's understandable. On November 07 2015 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3) I said i failed to learn anything. Which means you didn't do anything scummy. I am a bit puzzled how you don't manage to read the post that way.... Like what do you think i meant? 4) Yes at that time i thought it was a possibility. I never said it is impossible for scum to bus. I said it is situational, and bussing at the start of the game is NOT a valid scum strategy (when you don't know how people's reads evolve -- who townies read as scum). However when YOU did scumread HtS there was already thread sentiment where some people thought HtS could be scum, so i don't find that impossible at all, especially when you YOURSELF say you would maybe bus as mafia.... Ironically now, you made a post on HtS where the reasoning for your scumread on her is exactly what i said days ago, yet you also scumread me.  Now can you stop asking retarded questions from me? Also can you stop thinking HtS/rayn/Superbia is the scumteam because that's also retarded. Can you stop being retarded if you are town? Do you still view it at a possibility then ? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: do you have any opinions on anything? like real opinions? gameplaywise? I'm catching up bro. No worries you wish will be granted when I'm done. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:50 Rels wrote: I ask because just before you were pushing on the fact that my cases were "boring", which you don't list here. Every point on this list has been explained: - shockey's read is NOT "he does scummy things so he is town"; it's "if shockey is scum, he's playing to lose the game". - my push on you at the start of the game was logical; - Superbia's attack on Xata was not based on logic and was over the top for the beginning of the game. It makes no sense that you townread him at that point - I played with mafia!kita in Personality mafia; he layed low but provided good analysis on weak people, so we would mislynch them. Here he is laying low and providing good analysis, but on strong townies, which is super different - then tell me how my case on shockeyy is not him doing scummy things please. - no it was not, it never was, you even fucking said so yourself - that is debatable, and this is "i said you said" so i am not gonna argue about this - on strong townies? like who? me? or Xatalos? by your definition his analysis on strong players are wrong (except for you -- if you consider yourself strong), so how does that make him town again? I am pretty sure my case on you came after this so it has nothing to do with THIS QUESTION you posed to me. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: - then tell me how my case on shockeyy is not him doing scummy things please. - no it was not, it never was, you even fucking said so yourself - that is debatable, and this is "i said you said" so i am not gonna argue about this - on strong townies? like who? me? or Xatalos? by your definition his analysis on strong players are wrong (except for you -- if you consider yourself strong), so how does that make him town again? I am pretty sure my case on you came after this so it has nothing to do with THIS QUESTION you posed to me. - I have no idea what is your case on shockey, I suppose I will find it eventually. - It was, the quote I was thinking about was wrong, but the idea was logical - OK - yes, you and Xatalos. He never did something like that in Personality. Actually he did the opposite; I remember being so mad rereading the game at one point, when I was like "mm maybe we should gather every player' read evolution on XXX", and he did it in 10 minutes with a lot of quotes, it was soooo townie I was like "thanks mate!". Here, he is proactive, not reactive. OK maybe I messed up the timing. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
On November 08 2015 02:15 kitaman27 wrote: Right now I'm thinking SL was the spy last mission, though I'm not completely town reading Xat. I think you're playing sub-optimally if you are town. Sending those four means you have to be perfect on your HTS/Shockyy/(1 from mission 1) assumption. why me? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Last time i am going to post this: Here is why ShoCkeyy is mafia: First of all these things go together: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2015 03:15 ShoCkeyy wrote: I'm pretty much going to reject the xata/rayn combo wombo. I'd rather see the first team mentioned - hts,super,xata go through. At least if a sabotage happens, we definitely have a good chance of finding the mafia until the next mission. Xatalos is null -> that means he has to townread the people i colored green in the post. There is no other possible way he says this. On November 03 2015 22:37 ShoCkeyy wrote: Yea sure why not, I have a better feeling about kitaman and rels than I do of you... Townreads on kitaman and Rels. On November 04 2015 04:52 ShoCkeyy wrote: @kita you summed it up here: "He doesn't seem comfortable giving out statements which he isn't confident about. This could either mean that truly isn't sure and wants more time until it is clear or that he doesn't want to make a statement that could backfire later on in the game." And also, I have been looking into rayn's previous games. Another thing, I don't need to be on a team, I already know I'm town, so when ever I do get on a team I'll be a 33% chance that it will pass. My current focus atm is trying to find town so when I vote for the teams, I know I'm voting confidently. Look at the bolded part in this post for further reference. On November 05 2015 02:11 ShoCkeyy wrote: You missed that I town read you and rels also. Another thing, why would I say I don't need to get on a team if I was mafia? Wouldn't I want to be on a team if I was mafia in order to sabotage?... You guys don't make any sense. I also don't need to place myself on my own team if I'm confident on who is town. Back to work. Now from these posts we can gather the following: Everyone except rayn/Xatalos/sicklucker is townreads. I don't give a fuck if the dude says "i didn't actually say that" because that is just bullshit. If he townreads five people and he is himself town that literally means he thinks the rest of the people are likely to be mafia. Now let's go to this, what i bolded earlier: Okay so in his opinion, he has found the townies. This doesn't go along with how he ACTUALLY votes for the HtS team. For two reasons: 1) He "knows" there is scum on the team. In fact he should assume there is two scum (me/Xatalos). Yet he still votes yes, while earlier on saying he will refuse that team. 2) Now if he wants to be "tricky" and yay-vote the team because there are 2 scum in it, that would be okay. But that's not why he says he yay-voted it (i could have somehow understood that explanation). To elaborate further onto this all. Shockeyy was okay with there being 1 scum on the team while saying his current focus is finding town -- that doesn't really go along with what he said earlier. A reasonable explanation for the yay-vote should have been "in fact it's better that there are 2 or even 3 scum on the team, as long as we don't send any of those people onto further mission". That's not however his explanation. This entire section is based on the assumption that the first team contained rayn / Xata. Unless I've been mistaken for a few days, the first team was HTS / Superbia / rayn. Why made you think the first team was Xata / rayn / (I assume HTS) ? On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Onto Xatalos' team. In Shockeyy's opinion this mission had three scum in it. Yet he refused to yay-vote it. Again, his stance is: ... now if he actually believes all of me/Xatalos/SL are mafia, he should upvote this team. Just because then we don't send any of them into further mission --> the town wins, since the town will automatically pick 4 town whoever they pick. Then when the mission passes, the same team gets picked again. Then when the mission passes who cares who is picked onto mission 4. The other possibility is he doesn't actually townread the people he says he townreads, which also doesn't make any sense. Dont' know how you can arguee voting NO to a team you think contains three scums is scum indicative. At least I didn't get it reading this. On November 07 2015 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - His approach to how he votes doesn't line up with WHY he acts in some way in some situations and in another way in other situations. - He doesn't really give any reasoning to his reads. The only reasoning he gives is the scumreads on me and Xatalos, and "he is angry", "they are in the thread at the same time", "they both suspected Rels" is not a reason to scumread anyone. - When he is called out of his reads, he says "i didn't really call you scum" -- i think everyone can see why this is literally bullshit, kitaman already pointed this out. The only scum indicative thing here is the "I didn't really call you scum" part, which could be seen as scum not wanting to commit to a read. The first one is logical from his POV (if the first team go and fails, rayn is confirmed scum; then voting NO to an all scum team). The second one doesn't mean anything unless it's also a meta read ? Well I was not convinced. And you don't talk about the fact that: - shockey is playing to lose if he's scum, as a team with him has a very small chance to be accepted - he voted NO to a team containing one scum. It's just not logical he's still your #1 scumread (if he's not anymore, my bad) | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:58 sicklucker wrote: hes lurking like his mafia meta. all i remember him doing is putting my name in the mud. Kinda what scum is expected to do to the fall guy.. I liked Superbia's posts after the failure team, but I disliked the fact that he's lurking so much. Here you mention it's his scum meta ? Does he really have a tendency to lurk as scum ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think Rels has a good chance of being scum though. I'd feel more comfortable with about anyone else but Shockeyy and probably sicklucker (though I'm not entirely convinced it's sicklucker over Xata) Wait a minute. When did that happen again ? Last time I remember you saying stuff about me, I was "null / fear read", 'cause you found out my scum meta. When did I become scum and why ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hmmmm It seems very risky though. And I don't like the idea of nominating a team I think likely has a spy. On November 07 2015 22:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay, fair enough. I have a concert tonight though so my final team will probably be submitted around like 17:45 GMT (+00:00) unless I read enough on mobile to change my mind by the end of it. ##Nominate Artanis[Xp], Rels, kitaman27, Superbia THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE 1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum 2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!). | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:37 Half the Sky wrote: Eh, I'm voting any team with Rels down on it. The previous team was definitely better. Even Rels aside, there should be some discussion on Superbia, whom some people are having doubts on. Enjoy the concert though. I could understand you dodging questions when you were working super hard during the week. I can even confirm that is true. But two days ago, then yesterday, I asked you the same question, and I find it super hard to believe you missed it two times when you're free now. So, if only to ease me, can you answer ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:59 Half the Sky wrote: Alright, I knew I wasn't going crazy. That was not rayn's point. rayn's point was that I started scumreading him during the voting phase, when I already had an excuse to vote NO with my view on SL at the time, if voting NO was my goal. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:03 Half the Sky wrote: As I said, I could be wrong on Rels so I have to start from scratch on him. The argument you are presenting is that Rels doesn't have TMI (or however you said it) on SL, but this is also based on your pre-conceived notion that sicklucker actually IS scum. If Rels is scum, he doesn't just have to TMI sicklucker, there are other ways. Let's say that SL is town, and that somehow you're wrong on Xata (and you've been wrong on reads before, so don't say you aren't wrong). Surely you can entertain the slightest possibility that you are wrong. SL being town, me being scum, me pushing SL == me TMI SL ? TMI means Too Much Information or something like that, it's used when someone shows he has info he shouldn't have (like a strong but not logical townread on a townie). So what you're saying doesn't make sense; why did you want to say ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:23 Superbia wrote: Actually barely have time today, unfortunately. Imo we have to find out which of the three is scum (maybe more). We can't exclude all 3 of them in the team, because if we get a fail we're essentially fucked in the ass. In my world Xatalos is either exclusively with rayn or not scum (though rayn could be independently scum). SL is a fucked-up case, as I really can't see him in the team ever again. His reactions don't help. My other problem is that Artanis/HtS are both on the yes votes despite not being on the team, which kind of means I don't want to include them on the team. The team I would suggest would be: Rayn/Xatalos/Superbia/Kita (or perhaps Artanis instead of Kita, since Kita could be with SL- I'm still a little stuck on who the last member would be- probably someone who is/was on the raynistown-train). Which means that if this team produces a fail rayn would probably be for sure mafia. Yes, I understand that this could be a set up if I'm mafia myself, but get fucked. So to re-iterate: we cannot make a team which excludes all members of the first team at this point in time, as a fail would mean absolutely fuck all. I also know that people had some questions for me: rayn and rels. Rels I don't remember your question so please restate it asap (maybe I'll find it after this post). Rayn, I stated that I had the willies on you and HtS even though you both felt town. I've explained this I believe. Another post I like from Superbia. But once again it's about setup and stuff. Superbia, when will you be available to talk in thread ? For example, your team suggestion makes sense with the assumption SL is mafia; it would be good if you expanded though, 'cause putting 2 members out of 3 of the failed team only makes sense if you're convinced SL is mafia. The question was: | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On November 07 2015 23:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hmm, I think that Rels maneuvered himself into this corner and couldn't really get out of it anymore when the mission was being voted for. Bussing makes a decent amount of sense in the setup, so I can imagine him bussing SL for things he thinks look very scummy to make himself look better and attempt to get on a team himself. Which, when it fails, will make the other scumbuddy look better and the amount of people on the mission would widen so SL could make it into a second mission. As for Xatalos; I kinda expected you to have something specific you read him on other than him not posting anything scummy given the strength of your read. Wow still thinking I'm scum and creating scenarios to explain my actions. I better have missed your post where you explain why you scumread me; otherwise this makes 0 sense. | ||
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