EPT[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 95
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
The other three were fine by me. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On November 08 2015 10:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am voting yes so the ppl who think i am mafia should vote no. Lol I would vote yes here just cause I suggested the team, but something about this line makes it so scummy to vote yes. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
I'm not trying to solve the game by bunching up mafia through every mission, the whole point of losing the first one is because we now know there is 1 in those three. The second mission is really the most important one because if it passes, either a we have an all town team for once, or b we have a mafia that let it pass to not get caught. Or Mafia can choose to get the game very close to their winnings. Their choice. I would continue with my plan but I prefer to not just let it out before everyone yet. There's obviously a lot of mafia reading my posts. Especially rayn, he's been attacking me left and right all the sudden when before he never wanted to engage me in the beginning of the game. This is easily one of the scummiest things a person can do. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
So I saw this. I'll be honest, from this I actually cannot tell what you are asking, - I think you are asking me to make sense of why I think SL is sucking it up? I'll start by clarifying my statement. The "smart enough to suck it up and pass" comment was in relation to the fact that in RL resistance most three-person teams (mission 1) pass, based on my previous assumption that that three-person team was town and even with the conventional strategy that a scum would not want to give themselves away by failing the first mission. A scum SL (or scum anyone) would in theory be reluctant to pass that team. That comment was made BEFORE the mission failed. See page 67 of the game, and this was as Xatalos was talking about the no votes being scum votes. And that I was townreading xata/rayn at the time and making the assumption at that time the "least town" in sicklucker was mafia. (Posts 1334/1336) That was not in any way related to post-mission failure. If you read the comment in context on page 67, it should make more sense. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I answered Rels' questions, I got Artanis's earlier, if I missed yours, flag me. I read the last 10 pages and I don't think I missed any more. Since Rels is up for debate, I'll prioritise him over the Xata meta analysis... | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On November 08 2015 11:57 Half the Sky wrote: I anticipate I will be up until 0400 my time (or another hour and change from this post) so if anyone wants to talk, will do. I answered Rels' questions, I got Artanis's earlier, if I missed yours, flag me. I read the last 10 pages and I don't think I missed any more. Since Rels is up for debate, I'll prioritise him over the Xata meta analysis... How about you talk to me on how Xata and rayn both still town read each other and attack SL after the first mission? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 08 2015 12:00 ShoCkeyy wrote: How about you talk to me on how Xata and rayn both still town read each other and attack SL after the first mission? Alright, fair play, I actually saw one of your first quotes prior to that contention on that and there was a question that sort of popped up. Hold tight... | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 08 2015 12:00 ShoCkeyy wrote: How about you talk to me on how Xata and rayn both still town read each other and attack SL after the first mission? Actually re-read this - the quick answer to this is Xatalos being suspicious based on how quickly he did it. I brought this point up discussing sicklucker and I went into detail citing two posts where I suspected Xatalos could be scum for this. rayn I have a slightly different take which I was going to do a separate walkthrough. I was planning on doing a Xata meta read analysis - as mafia Xatalos has shallower reads (and the last post I just cited from him sorta scares me tbh. But long story shot I think a number of the things you cited with rayn is (mostly) NAI. I'll try and explain why. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On November 08 2015 12:06 Half the Sky wrote: rayn I have a slightly different take which I was going to do a separate walkthrough. I was planning on doing a Xata meta read analysis once I need to get through with Rels - as Rels on the current nominated team is up for vote - as mafia Xatalos has shallower reads (and the last post I just cited from him sorta scares me tbh. But long story shot I think a number of the things you cited with rayn is (mostly) NAI. I'll try and explain why. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Now. This is the one. Now before I begin, a few things, just hear me out, I realise the entire game is scumreading me but I am going to explain point by point why most of what you are saying here is actually NAI on rayn. 1 rayn pushing for you hard to be scum is NAI. Here's why. As town, his tunnels are beyond brutal and sometimes beyond ridiculous, you ask any player (particularly the suboptimal towns or commonly scumread towns) he just assumes that logical = town, illogical = mafia. It has gotten townies mislynched and in Drams mafia left him alive (reference the mafia qt for that game) because he was massively wrong, and his attitude was destructive and created chaos for town. Other games where his tunnels have been criticised include Tropical Storm (GlowingBear? Damdred? I forget who), Drams (with rsoultin), Titanic 7 (myself), SOTW (with LightningStrike, etc), the list goes on. Now as mafia, the agenda is pretty obvious. If you're town, you are an easy player to push. But the point here was to discuss how his pushing you can be his town mentality. You may not trust my meta read, but at least two others have mentioned the "logical = town, illogical = mafia" and reading his comments on the game in Drams should shed some light on how he operates. (posts 1565 and 66) 2 That said. #1 lends him to talking to absolutes. Kita and myself have both mentioned this, which stems from the whole "logical = town, illogical = mafia" thing. From a mafia perspective you can argue if you want that they are buddying each other. Highlighting the quotes that show appeasement or TMI (usually after a prior scumread or as sicklucker said, Xatalos townread rayn almost immediately) would better help the rest of town see this if you are town. From a town mentality - again, this is meta, he always thinks he's right and he spent multiple points meta-reading and going into detail why Xatalos was town. See posts 222 (first read), 685, 760/761 (first explanation), 850 (shocking absolute statement - Xatalos is confirmed town), 1018 (this is partial meta, admittedly I couldn't trust it because I have yet to play a game with Xatalos is town). In all fairness, sicklucker who has a more erratic game, and is more difficult to read as either alignment is obvously never going to be townread as town, or at least not as easily. But based on all these posts he's made on Xata, he's not going to believe he's wrong or think he's wrong given the comp. The support WAS there. He won't consider for a second that Xatalos is (1) breaking meta (2) or taking advantage of suboptimal townies. TLDR - he just could be dead wrong and is too damned stubborn to admit it TLDR - possible town mentality is based in his stubbornness and his town tunnels are well known to be brutal, so what you are saying - yes again, meta, but I've given you multiple reference points - doesn't necessarily make him mafia. It just makes him ridiculously wrong. You haven't played enough games with him (and maybe that's a good thing? I digress) but this is what other players have cited. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
(disclaimer: I'm avoiding any quotes/reads he's directed on me so that I remove any omgus issues or bias) Post 318 (and separately 330) - On November 02 2015 22:28 Rels wrote: Now I think you're town. You're being active and you meddle with everything in the thread, exactly like in the game I'm hosting. Could potentially be a bad read, but at face value for someone who's never played with Xatalos it's not a terrible or misleading read. Post 371 is pretty towny - it was tenuous as fuck but once I saw that Superbia had quoted the word nightmare and taking the entire thing in context, it's clear that he's seeing not a "nightmare" and "somewhat anti-scum" as too different things, although reading the exact words Superbia probably just saw him as exaggerating how difficult the game was. Could be an English language issue, who knows. Still can't argue this makes Rels look town. Post 578 - seems like he agrees with the meta read on Xata being town. Post 664 - Xatalos is described as maybe town. He seemed more confident in #318 so unless I missed it somewhere I can't follow how he became less confident. Given my current stance on Xatalos, this could be an issue. Minor atm, but something to note. Figures, after 4am so I'm going to stop here :/ | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
On November 08 2015 12:00 ShoCkeyy wrote: How about you talk to me on how Xata and rayn both still town read each other and attack SL after the first mission? =[ we lost | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On November 08 2015 12:35 Half the Sky wrote: Now. This is the one. Now before I begin, a few things, just hear me out, I realise the entire game is scumreading me but I am going to explain point by point why most of what you are saying here is actually NAI on rayn. 1 rayn pushing for you hard to be scum is NAI. Here's why. As town, his tunnels are beyond brutal and sometimes beyond ridiculous, you ask any player (particularly the suboptimal towns or commonly scumread towns) he just assumes that logical = town, illogical = mafia. It has gotten townies mislynched and in Drams mafia left him alive (reference the mafia qt for that game) because he was massively wrong, and his attitude was destructive and created chaos for town. Other games where his tunnels have been criticised include Tropical Storm (GlowingBear? Damdred? I forget who), Drams (with rsoultin), Titanic 7 (myself), SOTW (with LightningStrike, etc), the list goes on. Now as mafia, the agenda is pretty obvious. If you're town, you are an easy player to push. But the point here was to discuss how his pushing you can be his town mentality. You may not trust my meta read, but at least two others have mentioned the "logical = town, illogical = mafia" and reading his comments on the game in Drams should shed some light on how he operates. (posts 1565 and 66) 2 That said. #1 lends him to talking to absolutes. Kita and myself have both mentioned this, which stems from the whole "logical = town, illogical = mafia" thing. From a mafia perspective you can argue if you want that they are buddying each other. Highlighting the quotes that show appeasement or TMI (usually after a prior scumread or as sicklucker said, Xatalos townread rayn almost immediately) would better help the rest of town see this if you are town. From a town mentality - again, this is meta, he always thinks he's right and he spent multiple points meta-reading and going into detail why Xatalos was town. See posts 222 (first read), 685, 760/761 (first explanation), 850 (shocking absolute statement - Xatalos is confirmed town), 1018 (this is partial meta, admittedly I couldn't trust it because I have yet to play a game with Xatalos is town). In all fairness, sicklucker who has a more erratic game, and is more difficult to read as either alignment is obvously never going to be townread as town, or at least not as easily. But based on all these posts he's made on Xata, he's not going to believe he's wrong or think he's wrong given the comp. The support WAS there. He won't consider for a second that Xatalos is (1) breaking meta (2) or taking advantage of suboptimal townies. TLDR - he just could be dead wrong and is too damned stubborn to admit it TLDR - possible town mentality is based in his stubbornness and his town tunnels are well known to be brutal, so what you are saying - yes again, meta, but I've given you multiple reference points - doesn't necessarily make him mafia. It just makes him ridiculously wrong. You haven't played enough games with him (and maybe that's a good thing? I digress) but this is what other players have cited. Soooo, this whole post says "he doesn't read Xata as anything other than town because he's stubborn?" Ok... Still doesn't really say anything about how he can be trying to act as a towny. You can't help to put suspicion on him after mission one and if you don't then you're obviously looking to lose the game. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
Why say that? | ||
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