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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
On October 21 2015 06:20 sicklucker wrote: vonthin good you mention him. I asked questions, he never bothered to answer How do you read Shining as town? Why is that? I'd scumlean him. Also, how do you understand my reasong if even I say that the reasoning of MD is bullshit? How can you townread scott based that his posts were absurd (as Rels and me pointed out)? Scumlean for you. he better answer me. ##vote vonthin good night for real now | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
##vote vonthin | ||
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FarahBlackwing
270 Posts
Gb is the next person I would eliminate from the lynch list. She has been looking for scum it seems, initially it looks like she is also trying to get me to look at alternatives when early when I was interacting about moos. Some of it I disagree with but her reaction to ff voting Scott was interesting as scum has little motivation to jump on and off if Scott is scum. This leaves us with a lynch pool of ever, Vonthin, fecal, boxer, moos. This is where the game gets really difficult for me. | ||
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FarahBlackwing
270 Posts
The easiest answer is von is the disinterested scum at this juncture with how he came in voted left little on the table and seems to not care. But this could come just as easily from town it seems (lonemeow) as it could from scum. So I would probably suggest not lynching von today and looking elsewhere. However if von is scum it's highly probable that eversince is town. The second easiest thing (and what I think we should do) is lynch moos. He didn't really care who got lynched yesterday as evidenced by not really pushing his preference of boxer past a point and then saying well I'll just sheep onto Scott who his top scum read was in. This is highly suspicious and his other play during the game seems scum indicative and his pushing off of ever will shed light on her alignment if he flips scum. I've said plenty about ever before now so just read my case. But there is a direct possibility that it was a town v town wagon and scum just didn't care where votes went. I'm not sure about fecal or boxer I have t read more. But that's where I am atm | ||
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Eversince
Philippines2297 Posts
On October 21 2015 06:46 FarahBlackwing wrote: Tired of sending stuff in to early. The easiest answer is von is the disinterested scum at this juncture with how he came in voted left little on the table and seems to not care. But this could come just as easily from town it seems (lonemeow) as it could from scum. So I would probably suggest not lynching von today and looking elsewhere. However if von is scum it's highly probable that eversince is town. The second easiest thing (and what I think we should do) is lynch moos. He didn't really care who got lynched yesterday as evidenced by not really pushing his preference of boxer past a point and then saying well I'll just sheep onto Scott who his top scum read was in. This is highly suspicious and his other play during the game seems scum indicative and his pushing off of ever will shed light on her alignment if he flips scum. I've said plenty about ever before now so just read my case. But there is a direct possibility that it was a town v town wagon and scum just didn't care where votes went. I'm not sure about fecal or boxer I have t read more. But that's where I am atm I'll add on to your Moosy read by saying he never really did answer Kelsier either. He just kind of did exactly what I was saying, and I had a hunch about that bein' mafia lead by one party or the other. Moosy never followed up and I pointed this out in my follow-up chat with Kelsier about this being what I meant by him pushing it. The outcome was exactly and mafia Moosy would want. Past turning half the town against me ontop would just have been the sugar on the case. He hasn't actively read the thread since then either. He's replaced the spam with one liners and abandoning the follow up which is precisely what he did on D1. In particular everyone should read the weak prod along with Kelsier at me during the night, prod's Boxer with no follow up. Fecal has yet to explain any reads past the one's I got out of him on D1. He's just lurking, posting a few names here and there, and random one liners which is real curious. | ||
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Eversince
Philippines2297 Posts
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Eversince
Philippines2297 Posts
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FarahBlackwing
270 Posts
If we had two wagons that were led by town it is highly likely mafia didn't care where votes fell. Which could be the case with lone being the hammer vote basically on Scott. I have to think a hit about it. But it's worth considering... | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On October 19 2015 20:32 KelsierSC wrote: well there wasn't that much to catch up on really so I'm going to post where i'm at. starting with the most important part, scum reads Moosy - His spammy opening was no good and the feeling I got from the entire opening exchange was that mafia was in there. I'm not going to repeat the whole line of questioning about vonthing but it showed he was just spamming and asking questions for the sake of it with no real care for the answer, he hasn't returned to do anything since that point. I'm still waiting on a few things but he is scum right now scott31337 This is two fold really, I think Rels caught him out first with how he interacted with moosy , how he pretended he knew it was a joke. The second part is on his return he didn't actually clarify that point and talked about something else and then disappeared, once again i'm waiting on his return but it looks like lack of interest/reading. eversince I mean...perhaps I am biased in this case. His "catch up" entrance to the thread was with a point about shinings opening post. Then he got into ff about not explaining reads. After that he moves onto me, calls me the lync says i'm mucking up the thread and then after deciding i'm scum he then produces the case on me, I think I provided a decent refutation to that case and after that he just disappeared. To me it seemed his entrance was picking on some random people and then jumping on the leading lynch target but it showed he hadn't really read the thread properly. Furthermore his case felt like he called me scum then read my filter and had to find things to call me scummy. I'd lynch either of these 3 right now. In the next tier of players who I don't like/scum lean vonthin - started off as a townlean for me but he has really fallen off, hasn't posted anything since his list pos It seems to be based mostly on the start of the game and who shit posted the most , with things moving on he really needs to do something. lonemeow - I agree with what boxerfred said really and his play has just been nothing so far I have some people who I think are town but not too many, you guys are sort of lazy Rels I like the points on scott, I think he's been active and sensible so far. In general I like the way Rels posts but yeh i'm calling him town farah newbie willing to engage and give thoughts. probably town SL calling him town and moving on then a few people who are like town leaning but it's not really based on too much GB - like I got mad at him but I seem to do that all the time and it's best to step back a bit. Lot of people think he's sort of town and he was trying to be relatively serious. I'm waiting to see what he does as we near deadline. FF - I liked his attitude coming in but he hasn't posted that much BF - liked some of his posts, probably should post more Shining - Can't really see any malicious agenda behind his questioning. That's what i'm thinking, if I missed you off then you are probably scum. Kelsier last list post. Reminding that he brought strong suspicions on Eversince. Farah can you explain to me what on Eversince made you think he is town? | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
How do you read Shining as town? Why is that? I'd scumlean him. Also, how do you understand my reasong if even I say that the reasoning of MD is bullshit? How can you townread scott based that his posts were absurd (as Rels and me pointed out)? Scumlean for you. Besides the fluff posts in his filter he has been doing a lot of things I have liked. He has a lot of solid reads I have liked and agreed with like his one on Eversince. He has brought up some good points and has asked good questions like in the post where he called you out for skimming over the thread and how in the post you had way too much conflicting points in it. Besides his emotional/flufy start his feed overall looks towny and beneficial to the town overall. As for your second question asking about me understanding your reasoning, If you think your own case was bullshit why post it in the first place? Wouldn't a bullshit case be something Mafia would post to distract the thread in useless arguments? I really don't think it was that bullshit though since him being so spammy had little benefit to the game at the time you made your case. This is just you making conflicting points that Shining pointed out. As for Scott I didn't think they were bad enough to lynch him. His posts weren’t shitposts at the time which was a nice breath of fresh air at the time with all the other posts from Moosy and others. He asked some questions trying to get reads on people. I probably should've listed as null at the time with the amount of posts he had but his posts didn't look scummy to me so I had him under my town list. | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
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FarahBlackwing
270 Posts
Ever can still be scum and I think has a decent chance of flipping but moos probably has the best chance st this point. | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
Town Rels- I thought he might be scum for pushing Scott so hard but I don't think he is lying with his Vig role claim especially as he is tryharding even with the bad push on Scott. GlowingBear - Has been spot on imo with his town play all game. Always has good questions and leads and has done a good job leading the town in general. Only things I don't like in his filter is when he says I'm voting Scott because not voting for the 2 main bandwagons is a waste of a vote then proceeds to unvote from the bandwagon. Shining - Same reasons I listed in my above post, I don't see him being scum with his filter. Farah - Her Day1 case on Ever was solid. The Day 2 cases and reads are logical from a towns perspective. I don't understand why she would say something like "this lynch is the easiest one for today" or this is the second easiest when she hasn't even read everyone's filter and made cases for the rest? Scum Fecal- Like I mentioned in my above post majority of his filter are just oneliners. He just says this person is scum or this person is town and doesn't even explain why. I just woke up and skimmed the new posts. ##unvote ##vote scott31337 seems fine to me if nobody else sees how scummy vonthin is He never says in his filter why he thinks Scott is scummy besides just having his name under his list. Voting for someone after skimming posts and not even saying why he voted that person not even the "lol im sheeping X" is just plain scummy. Boxer- Lots of big long confusing posts that are all over the place that should've been separated into multiple posts. He makes a case against Moosy then later says it was a bullshit case? Why post it in the first place? Besides his case against Moosy(which he pushes even after calling it BS) he seems to be all over the place with what he is pushing, looks like scum trying to spread chaos to me. Also why ever say "I just scimmed the posts" and then make an opinion, this just gives you plausable deniability when you miss something that could make you look scummy. You always want to post when you have all the information. Ever- Starts off be coming into the thread spreading some shit and trying to make some easy pushes without much strength behind her. Then she just tries to defend herself with excuses for most of her filter. If you are about to get lynched one of the best things u can do is to is try to make solid reads and cases on people so incase you do actually die it will be way easier for us to find the scum if you flip town.She finally started making reads and stuff at the end of her filter which is good though. Slight scum lean for now. Null Moosy - Not too sure about him. He started out scummy with his spam and useless posts but later he starts to have a lot of good posts that I like and will bring up some good points. Wouldn't be surprised no matter how he flipped at this point. SL- Not too sure about him. Before the roleclaim he has looked real scummy for me. Him falsly roleclaiming can mean 3 things for me 1.He has retarded town play 2.He is mafia doing this to look town 3.He is a veteran trying to soak a bullet. I am leaning towards 1 or 3 but can't count out 2 with the rest of his filter. Strongest scum read is Fecal atm sooooo ##Vote Fecalfeast | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
On October 20 2015 02:28 Vonthin wrote: Day 1 reads has always been the hardest for me, my first newbie game I got lynched Day 1 as town for posting like this, the other game I completed my Day 1 posting was also weak. You can go and look. As for liking Meow I don't see any scum motivation behind the posts. I understand the logic behind them and what he was trying to accomplish by trying to get reads on people and to trap BF that one time, I just don't see mafia doing that D1. As for Scott I don't think he was trying to scum up the thread at all in his posts, I don't think being lynched for inactivity day 1(unless they didn't post at all or vote but they would get mod killed anyways) isn't worth it because if they get lynched it doesn't give us much info to go on depending on the result since he has given us so little information which would give the scum an advantage and it would be like playing day 1 all over again unless we get lucky and he is actually scum. Day 2 he does the same thing then you can go for him. Anyways I'm off for class, not sure I will be back before deadline so my vote will be for Ever ##Vote: Eversince The game where you got lynched day 1 your posts were nothing like in this game. You didn't mkae a single list post in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/430766-newbie-mini-mafia-xlix?user=Vonthin which honestly if I compare to this game you have been doing a lot better. but in this game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/433102-newbie-mini-mafia-l?user=Vonthin&view=all you do. OK by meta reasons I change my read on vonthin ##unvote question Vonthin: How is GB doing a good job 'leading town' as you say in your most recent list post? If GB is leading town, there are 3 town dead day 2, he is doing a good job? You even note something scummy he did in your read of him but call him town. Boxer's first game was a scumgame and he survived til endgame with a fairly short filter (11 pages including pre and post game for a 5 day game) and his filter d1 was a mere 2 pages. Not to mention, his filter this game is all over the place. He wants to kill lonemeow, no he wants to kill moose, no he wants to kill scott On October 19 2015 08:02 boxerfred wrote: my moosy read sucks I agree but I still think he's scum, boom. he's doing the same spammy shit he did when we played together. kelsier/farah town. sicklucker hasn't done batshit but oneliners but if i remember correctly, it's not scum indicative for him. dunnno how kelsier townreads him off of that but he does. eversince's post on kelsier is shit, those quotations are kinda standalone and feel tryhard. that makes me townread him. ##vote lonemeow Enters thread in defense of GB, then votes kelsier for no reason. Goes on to interact with Rels, doesn't follow up. This is constructed bullshit. In the context of that conversation, start of D1, there's no way for that kind of thinking. It's constructed and puts pressure on KSC for the sake of, well, pressuring, while still leaving the vote without any reasons. Stirring up chaos and setting up a potential mislynch. So he provoked a reaction from Kelsier. Now that the wagon kind of started, he's nowhere to be seen. So all we have is a push on kelsier because "well I can and a vote is pressure". That feels like scum stirring up chaos to me. On October 19 2015 04:21 boxerfred wrote: Disclaimer: I haven't read deeply into the thread. I skimmed up to this point. This is going to be gut heavy. First up, going to bring up the one serious interaction I'm in: Yes I'd have rather rolled scum or at least blue. It's (spare last newbie game where I co-hosted) the 3rd or 4th consecutive VT game for me. I don't love the guessing in this game, I love the lying. Obviously I prefer playing scum. Also I think I'm better at scum. Last game I was scum in was actually the game that got a 3 game ban to sicklucker because I was tryhard not conceding as the last scum. Good times. Let's get constructive now: Thus far there's nothing too good to be had. Kelsier is way too active to have rolled scum again given how he reacted last Student Mafia to being scum. MoosyDoosy can be town or scum. I can't read him at all. Gut says "lynch before he misleads town", brain says lynching the (most likely to be) most active player in the game is bullshit. I recommend to not let Shining slip off the radar. He asks lots of specific questions to specific players, thus far me, scott, kelsier, while the rest seems to be banter such as this: I think that can very well be scum pretending to be constructive. Also I see that while MoosyDoosy pushed me, GB insta-defended me. Given they joked around about being scum before (as a resemblence to their last game were they were indeed scum together if I understood correctly) it's a behaviour that might be tying them together. Since afaik BH randomizes roles, how high are the chances that exactly the same constellation is happening again? I don't think so. I can see one of them being scum but not both. I don't know what that is worth but I feel like we should keep that in mind. Chances are they are both town but I don't think so. MD pushed me hard, knowing I'm not the most active player. Can be scum pushing a mislynch (he did so already in the one game we played together). MD is my top scum read atm. Farah feels town to me. This feels genuine. Running out of time (also my finger hurts as fuck) so I'll be gone for another hour or two. On October 19 2015 19:59 boxerfred wrote: Moosy/scott interaction is also interesting because of this: I don't think this is a scum interaction. Moosy pushes me, scott nullifies that plus points out negative things in moosy's playstyle. So I don't think at all they are mafia together. Scott keeps it up: Pressure, questions, and then he drops it: And now he disappears. I mean I can see the things on scott but I can't imagine scum scott and scum moosy interacting in that way that early in the game, it just doesn't make sense. So I'd say we have scum in between moosy/scott but I wouldn't say both are scum. I townread kels and I clearly townread rels from what I see so i'm glad to help on that wagon. ##unvote ##vote scott12345 At first I had BF as town just for playing the game but his first game as scum he was making big posts with reads and questions so the fact that he is doing such this game is nai. Scumlean on boxer. boxer: Look at vonthin's other games linked in this post and tell me what you think afterward. Now that I give glowingbear's filter a good read, I think he could be scum. His buddying up to kelsier after realizing that kelsier was going hard on scott is really scummy to me. + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2015 21:32 GlowingBear wrote: Dude, Kelsier, I've been trying to play a good game with you but you insist with this. I have a history of doing "stupid stunts" for some people, but I am playing a very straight forward game since the last one. So IF you're town, actually read my list instead of just saying it's classic GB with illogical reads, because they are far from illogical. If you have actually read it you would realise I was commenting ONLY on people that had posted, so point (A) doesn't make sense. Point (B): it's a post where I share my vision of what has been posted so far and I ask players to bounce their reads on it. You see, I've seen a lot of alignment indicstive behaviours - which you fail to realise/discuss just to base a read on a joke phase. And the joke phase wasn't even that long. I started playing the exact moment the game started, and you should see it if you actually read my filter. If you're town, please, play the game. If not, die. ##Vote: KelsierSC On October 18 2015 22:53 GlowingBear wrote: Oh okay! Now I'm convinced On October 18 2015 23:03 GlowingBear wrote: Who is mafia with scott, Kelsier? Which, I'll admit seemed to me like it was sarcastic, especially when followed with On October 18 2015 23:17 GlowingBear wrote: Game is not going well... Which would be odd since he just got convinced that someone is scum. Rather than expound on what he means by this, he posts some fluff and a while later this On October 20 2015 03:31 GlowingBear wrote: I actually won't be able to catch up, I have a lot to do. Skimmed a little bit. I'm not sure what to do with Kelsier's answers, it felt townie to me, but I find weird that he says there is at least one mafia between me, shining and moosy but never really pushes any of us effectively - instead, he goes against scott. But overall, his posts has town vibes in it. Scott came bad to the thread and I agree with the suspicions brought on him. I don't wish to lynch Eversince since I didn't read his posts. I don't think he is one to be lynched today due to activity, either. As my knowledge of this ongoing game is limited, I'd go against lurkers. I hate fecal feast/sicklucker wasting their votes. If one of them is mafia, both wagons are town. That said, I want to vote sicklucker for his lackluster push on LoneMeow. If people don't want to, I'd vote FF. Since I don't think Eversince should be lynched today, I am voting the alternate wagon that did a scummy think. ##unvote ##vote: Scott31337 BUT I PREFER TO LYNCH SICKLUCKER OR FECALFEAST FOR WASTING THEIR VOTES If people is willing to do so, let me know So he's convinced by kelsier that scott is scum but would rather vote elsewhere (myself[town] and sciklucker[I think town]) and explicitly says he doesn't want to vote eversince. On October 20 2015 03:50 GlowingBear wrote: Ok, I think a townie can only be very tunneled and keeping his vote on someone if they constantly try to convince the rest of town to vote with him. A tunneled person can never be this passive. And a town not sure if his scum read would be voting one of the main wagobs right now. I'm voting Sicklucker ##Unvote ##Vote: sicklucker SO HE MOVES HIS VOTE OFF THE WAGONS AFTER SAYING HE WANTS TO VOTE SL AND I FOR VOTING OFF WAGON? AND THEN CHANGES VOTES FROM SL (off-wagon) TO EVERSINCE His entire reason for voting eversince over scott seems to be that I am scum trying to save eversince but wait On October 20 2015 14:21 GlowingBear wrote: My drunk senses says that sicklucker is totes mafia And that FF might be town. Maybe So he gets drunk and comes to thread to revert his read on me. So, coupled with the fact that kelsier died who was calling GB out a lot, which isn't much on its own because kelsier was super towny anyway, I think GB is a good shot at scum today. ##vote glowingbear Town: farah rels sicklucker vonthin scum gb boxerfred will be looking into moose, shining and eversince next. I am leaning scum on eversince just because it seemed really weird that GB would pop his vote on her after saying he would never do so, but only after scott was clearly in the lead to die | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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sicklucker
Canada16987 Posts
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
So now that you are starting to get called out for your shit filter you actually start to play the game somewhat seriously and start to explain your cases by posting more than 1 sentence. Interesting. Also dropping my vote so fast by just looking at my last 2 games is a little weird, I mean people generally get better at the game more they play so won't their filters will be different? You noted the difference between game 1 and 2 but are content with my "shit filter" after seeing game 2 and this game are similar? Judging me town by comparing this game to a game that's from 2 years ago doesn't seem a good enough reason to drop your case on me. Feels pretty scummy to switch your cases so fast based off just this. I would like you to do what you do for this post for GB for everyone you think might be scum including myself since you thought my filter was scummy before. Anyways I said he was doing a good job leading town cause his posts most of the time controlled the flow of the game, he raises good points most of the time which leads to good discussions around them. As for 3 town being dead, 1 was from people tunneling the guy with hardly any posts and GB did try to talk people out of it by giving us other cases but not enough people listened. One was by a bad Vig Shot not really his fault there and the last one was the mafia nk which was unpreventable. Not really sure how you can blame him here. Just because a person did one thing that makes them look scummy doesn't make them insta scum. I mean looking at everyone's filters almost everyone has done at least one thing that makes them look scummy in my opinion. Also in the end he changed his vote to one of the bandwagons in the end after he couldn't get enough people to switch. I would like GB to clarify the dropping of his SL vote to Ever though, While I think that Ever was the best case for Day1 I don't understand him unvoting SL when he was quoting a FF post voting for someone? I will give you the drunk posts though, they don't look that great imo as gut feelings are never a good thing to base things on especially drunk ones. | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
On October 21 2015 12:34 sicklucker wrote: If we have a cop and you didnt already eversince is the most important flip for vote logic d1 I can't understand the grammar in this sentence. Are you saying the cop should read Ever then roleclaim and tell us the result? Or are you saying that they should've read Ever last night if they didn't. Anyways Cops should never roleclaim so early imo even if they get a right read the first night | ||
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Vonthin
United States2864 Posts
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