On May 11 2015 02:55 -Celestial- wrote:Rioky's filter analysed, in full:
- Babbles about incoherently for a bit. Posting for the sake of posting. Eventually gets around to asking disfo about Superbia. Follows that up (which is good) and then goes off on incoherent rambling again.
- Goes to y0su and starts going on about Superbia again. Despite the fact that he's claiming that he doesn't think Superbia is mafia his ONLY pushes so far have been to poke at the thoughts of two newer players about him which is kind of weird. Like he's trying to persuade them to tunnel on him.
- Despite the fact he's done pretty much jack all so far and his filter is a pile of rambling off in random directions he quickly jumps on my red reading him early (because of that rambling and incoherent misdirection play) and says that the read is "lulz". Even though he's showing absolutely no evidence why.
- Incredibly quick to jump onto FF's side. FF is being heavily townread from the very start whilst ritoky has done bugger all. But quickly tries to align himself with the strongest townread person in the game rather than allow people to make their own conclusions. Easy scum motivation for this.
- Because I'm the only one heavily redreading him the next few posts are him pushing at me, looking for holes he can exploit. When he realises he CAN'T do this and that I'm pretty much being townread too he does this:
"Doesn't my name look pretty in green next to these others that people are townreading?"
- Now that scott is looking good for a lynch he starts trying to pick away at there too bit deliberately avoids doing anything too obvious. More slight pokes but nothing to ruffle any feathers. So far he's just quietly sat back and done just enough to make it look like he's doing something whilst doing relatively little whilst simultaneously consistently trying to place himself next to other people who are being townread.
- disfo pushes back on ritoky, pointing out that basically all he's done so far is pick at newer players and speculating that he's looking for an easy lynch. ritoky, rather than responding, retaliates by questioning disfo about scott. Even though disfo wasn't the only one ritoky was poking at. He handwaves the fact that he's pushing on new players by only referring to disfo and effectively saying that that isn't scum indicative. Yet he still fails to actually do anything dramatic.
- Reinforces he likes my scott read . In fact he's said that a few times now. Starts to question Superbia about scott. All aboard the scott train?
- Claims he's not scumhunting but is looking for town. Eh. Then once again puts himself with me and FF. "Second tier" being prpl (who had done jack all by this point and flipped red later) and Superbia.
- Claims prp is town for ONE POST in which prpl expressed a vague feeling about Shining. Wow. Just wow.
- Pushed for more details on prpl. Describes him as having made "one of the highest quality observations in the game". Seriously are we reading the same person? prpl has done bugger all by this point. Literally nothing of real value. And claims that prpl is giving definitive alignment reads rather than hedging which is absolute bollocks. prpl has posted game-relevant posts like three times by this point. Two of which ritoky had quoted in his own post. Neither of which outright scumread Shining. Just look at this crap:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=20#398And compare with prpl's filter. The third game-relevant post is him agreeing with Superbia about how he doesn't think mafia has posted yet. Absolute joke; here ritoky is either a fool or scum.
- Superbia speculates about getting a sicklucker wagon going. ritoky throws out a weak probe at Superbia asking for more information.
- Stutters posts questioning ritoky's read and bussing prpl a little but hedges his bets saying that he doesn't think its definitive. ritoky immediately replies by making excuses for prpl. All a nice little ruse for the two of them to get some nice towny credit by questioning each other whilst also allowing ritoky to reinforce his "I think prpl is innocent" line?
- Superbia suggests a sicklucker train. ritoky is totally noncommital. Superbia points out that ritoky hasn't done anything with the vote anyway. ritoky says he doesn't believe in pressure votes. Goes back to asking Stutters for reads. Nothing particularly alignment indicative here although I don't like that he says he doesn't believe in pressure votes but the way he votes on HtS later is perfectly fine because it was seeking information. So he's clearly willing to vote people just for more info, which is it?
- Questions scott on Superbia and FF and asking why scott's read on them doesn't apply to him (ritoky). This is goddamn hilarious considering that scott was townreading both FF and Superbia. Once again he's DESPERATELY trying to get townread by people but nobody is buying it and its making him upset it seems. Seriously, just look at this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=23#446http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=23#448- Starts to pick up some people he wants to lynch. Shining because of a tone read (your own tone isn't so great yourself either, mate) and HtS because she's only just entered the thread and hasn't been able to immediately start drawing conclusions.
- Complains that y0su has been asking questions but not drawing conclusions and putting them in the thread. Which is kinda funny considering how bad ritoky has been at following things up and drawing conclusions himself (that is to say conclusions other than "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN!").
- Shining responds to ritoky's toneread of him; calling ritoky out for weakly scumreading people and doing jack all else. ritoky responds by saying Shining is overreacting, claiming he does have stances that are in the thread (his only strong stances in the thread are that a few obvious townies are town, prpl is town and "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN TOO!") and then saying he doesn't really have any proper scumreads except a weak one on HtS. So basically a pile of nothing at this point; and yet he's getting away with it by pretending to do something.
- Asks sicklucker to post more. Which isn't really indicative of anything at all. I think everyone was wanting to see more from him.
- Starts to say that he thinks y0su is top town now, saying he likes his process because it was similar to his own. Not alignment indicative, very easy comment to make.
- Drifts around aimlessly a bit on HtS with the whole "might be scum might be town" thing. Complains that she's drawing totally different conclusions to him (gee, sounds a bit like what I'm doing, doesn't it?).
- Goes back once again to disformation. He's got a real obsession with disformation here. Asking about scott now.
- Complains that nobody he reads well is playing. Goes both ways on disfo by saying part of his post he likes and part he doesn't like. So...what's your conclusion? Nothing again, okay.
- Explaining to disfo what he didn't like and giving a reason for it. Kinda towny. Then gets upset because disfo wasn't crediting him for the "we" thing that scott said.
- Makes one of the few strongly towny posts I've seen by saying "wrong =/= mafia".
- Repeats his earlier comment about HtS dialing into the same things but not having the same reactions. Nothing new here and frankly I'm not sure I like it. Someone not having the same reactions shouldn't be a case of "oh they're reading it differently, I don't like that". It should be a case of "they're reading it differently, I should TRY TO FIND OUT WHY". At least if you're town. If you're scum you can just make the vague comment and use it as an excuse to train on them.
- Finally goddamn "realises" that prpl is doing nothing at all. Starts to dislike him for it. Also mentions that he doesn't like Stutters though doesn't give any real conclusions as to why. Interestingly he much earlier commented that "if you read my mafia game I bus mercilessly". Setting himself up for either or both of them to flip red?
- Starts to pull back on the scott thing. Knows scott is going to flip green? I don't find his reasoning particularly scummy here but this sudden turnabout is interesting. Sure it doesn't help to not have a second train but considering he says he's so sure scott will flip...
- Starts going onto Tictock. Who didn't want to vote on scott even though he found it to be an appealing case and felt that prpl was looking scummy. Claims that Tictock was finding "one to be scum and one inactive" which is just...misrepresenting Tictock's post to a certain extent to make TT look bad. Casts doubt by saying "where's this hesitancy coming from?"
- Asks Stutters for posts. Asks Shining about his thoughts on Superbia reading filters. Whole load of nothing. Effectively more questions for questions sake, no real hard pushes for answers. Uses it as an excuse to cast doubt on Shining again though.
- Shows the first piece of self-awareness I've seen all game. It almost looks like he's setting himself up to handwave red reads on him by saying "well yeah, I look that way when I'm town sometimes" with this quote:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 04:42 ritoky wrote:
because self perception is not always what others perceive. for example i have rolled scum in games, posted in the game and been like "i am town jesus here" and literal 0 people read me town. i have also rolled scum, thought i was shit and got universally town read.
- More stuff about Shining. Really doesn't like Shining it seems. "Complex null"
- Another attempt to put himself with FF whilst making HtS look bad:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 04:53 ritoky wrote:
no i meant you're giving effort based reads on HtS, yet you avoid giving effort based reads on say...me or ff.
- Complains HtS looks "diplomatic". What?
- Jumps on prpl's train against HtS. Despite his claims lately in trying to take town credit for that he does NOT start that wagon.Relevant quotes:
Show nested quote +On May 05 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote:
i too am also interested in seeing where this goes. although i don't think scott is a bad lynch.
##vote: hts
Which is a response to this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/483492-newbie-student-mafia-ix?page=35#693Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 03:39 ritoky wrote:
She was whining about my read on her but neglected the post where I said I intentionally blew the read out of proportion to create an alternative wagon.
You did NOT start that wagon moving you dirty liar. prpl did. Your vote was registered before his because he forgot to vote in the actual voting thread; although he apparently suddenly "remembered" half an hour later and did so without comment. Did you remind him in scum QT? Then you started saying that you're doing it because she's reading things differently to you (guess what? A bunch of people were) and that she usually leads from the front, despite the fact she joined the game pretty late on for reasons explained pre-game. Superbia was getting extremely frustrated with HtS and the lack of a proper alternate wagon at this point which I can understand and was mostly driving the thing. If ritoky were scumreading her so hard then where the hell was he pushing this wagon?
- ritoky doesn't push the wagon. He makes a few quiet inquiries to people about their thoughts on HtS and makes a snarky comment about her not pushing Tictock for an answer. Tictock made one single post in-between which was obviously an in-and-out job since he damn near missed the deadline. And I think HtS missed the post anyway.
- Calling out HtS again for responding after they started voting for her. Eh...and? *shrug* Also misrepresenting how HtS has been acting which is bad.
- Pre-emptively sets himself up for saying scott is green despite the fact that earlier on he was saying he liked the scott train but didn't like the lack of a secondary wagon.
- Claims that as town who is probably getting lynched you vote on who you think is the scummiest person rather than voting on the opposing wagon if you think that wagon might also be town. Both me and sicklucker disagree and honestly his thought process is here is stupid. If you're town you're the only person apart from flips and people who manage to get confirmed in certain ways (like Superbia's vigi kill) who you absolutely know the alignment of 100%. Even if you're pretty sure the other wagon is town you don't KNOW it. Therefore the best possible option for yourself is to try to keep yourself alive (again because you know you're town, but can't be absolutely certain of the other).
- Accuses HtS of OMGUS on him and prpl after HtS was poking at Superbia's posting.
- Starts to handwave his read on HtS. Setting himself up to distance himself from the read when she flips green? Saying it was all about setting up another wagon (again, you didn't start it up, prpl did, Superbia drove it). Now is calling out FF and prpl for dropping off and saying "where are my town buddies". Yet again "HEY GUYS I'M TOWN SRSLY!"
- Claims he's probably dying tonight. What for? Damned if I know why he thinks he's getting shot here because he's got no real reads apart from a weak red read on HtS and a bunch of nulls and townreads that he keeps drifting back towards null (his recent comments on FF for example) whilst simultaneously trying to align himself with town over and over simply by saying it.
- Pushes me for refusing to townread HtS just because she has the same reads as me. Sorry but no, I don't buy the "because someone has the same reads as me they're town" ethos.
- Starts asking HtS about why she isn't gunning for prp before saying "or do you have the same read I do on prp?" WHAT goddamn read on prp? You were heavily townreading and then have spent the previous two days tempering that with "oh but he's not been about much so he's going null", despite willingly going along with the train he started. You've hardly been GIVING reads except to say "I'm town, X is town and Y is town" over and over.
- Back and forth with Stutters. Not really alignment indicative. Given his much earlier comments about how he busses people I'm not really willing to accept any ritoky vs red discussion as indicative that he's town honestly.
- Disagrees on HtS point that having the same reads as someone else isn't alignment indicative. Big surprise there, he seems to put a lot of stock in it. Worked out well with prpl didn't it?
- Confirms me as town. Then puts himself, me and y0su together as town. Seriously, stop doing this crap. You are NOT confirmed town by anyone but yourself. Complains about HtS' tone but says she says townie stuff. Another "complex null". More complaints about HtS.
- Asks Superbia for a read on y0su. Probably because he was hedging his bets on y0su earlier by saying "maybe I'm just giving him a pass".
- "Scum side of null" for HtS. Totally unwilling to commit or actual build a coherent case.
- Questioning Superbia about y0su again. Despite the fact he's reading y0su as town he's asking Superbia what townie things y0su has done. Don't even know what to make of this, he's just all over the place. Also starts looking at FF again, asking about the dropoff.
- Said he was going to die, now is saying that I'm going to die. Whatever. Neither of us did anyway. FF did, and he was a very easy kill to take since everyone was reading him town but he wasn't quite as active as some of us.
- Explains his thoughts on me to Superbia. Not indicative of anything at all. Pushing prpl for his views on Tictock. But a very light exchange here. Neither saying very much. Towns me some more and FF I think. Weighs in on the RB claim by Superbia but doesn't really go anywhere with it other than to say he doesn't like sickluckers argument much. Thread was kicking a Superbia lynch about for a while which he said he didn't like. Comments that he doesn't like disfo or Stutters. Still blatantly ignoring prpl of course. WIFOMs a bit over the NK.
- More buggering about with the Superbia lynch, SL trying to push that on his calculations. Stutters is trying to bus prpl pointing out we have a really good lynch there. ritoky asks why he didn't push it D1 then which is...er...considering Stutters specifically stated its been good since NIGHT 1. Just a whole load of nothing, Stutters isn't moving his vote.
- Calls HtS out for saying 2 of the 4 people who didn't vote on the main green train are mafia. Not sure I entirely believe this argument. If both are running and both are green then why NOT jump onto the smaller one, especially if you can claim you were trying to get more information from the game by having two wagons. Claims that nobody has been towning Superbia all game and says that means people practically pre-voted and that its a too easy vote as a result. Setting himself up for a Superbia town flip? At this point the vote was dead even with two on prpl and two on Superbia, hardly a runaway train. Nulling Superbia himself; saying Superbia has been aggressively pocketing him (ritoky that is). So who AREN'T you nulling or townreading? Closes to an actual red is "Complex null" on HtS and Shining as far as I can tell. And STILL no conclusions on prpl.
- Complaining to Stutters some more about his read of prpl. Keeps going back to the "this isn't him being a good target since D1" which is something nobody except ritoky said. I don't think anyone is really paying attention to this discussion at all honestly. The bigger thing going on is between HtS and Superbia so its easily lost in the noise but gives something they can both neatly point back to as having done. Convenient.
- Asks Superbia about his thoughts on ritoky's read of him as null. Superbia is still goddamn townreading prpl for the same reasons that ritoky was townreading prpl; but ritoky is no longer doing so now that prpl is a viable lynch candidate (despite his only misgivings being "oh he's inactive" and not prpl's actual content at all; despite the fact that the argument against prpl also included content). How convenient.
- Linking disfom with prpl and Superbia as being the mafia team if they weren't having two voting on the main wagon. Making it look like this is a thought-through answer. Looking at the actual votes the only people off that wagon were scott (who got lynched), ritoky, Superbia and prpl. So basically the only two other people not voting on the main wagon that aren't him. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to identify that this is basically the only conclusion you would make regardless; but the way you're presenting it is as if you've given it any thought at all. And you're hammering on how you think two are on the main wagon. Worried that someone might realise "hey, there were THREE alive people who weren't on that wagon and one was ritoky, could it be him"?
- More arguments with Stutters over prpl. Again I don't find it particularly indicative of anything. This is going nowhere in light of the fact the main focus is currently HtS and me trying to get through to Superbia that prpl is shady as hell.
- Makes his grand "prpl is a role or mafia" claim. Which I've pointed out previously is a terrible play. He's done jack all to try to find prpl's alignment and has, in fact, been somewhat defending him. Rather than trying to work out if prpl is scum or blue he calls on him to claim.
I repeat. He calls a person who he claims to have been wavering null on but has been actively defending against a bus to claim their role. This is beyond absurd and is horribly anti-town. The pressure is ALREADY steadily increasing on prpl, if he's a blue he's perfectly capable of claiming blue himself closer to the deadline if it still looks like he can't shift the train himself. He doesn't need that additional pressure but it does allow ritoky to pretend to be town in nature if he knows prpl is already considering fakeclaiming; precisely by saying he "forced out a claim" even though he's done NOTHING to pressure prpl lately.
- Starts hedging on Shining and disfo now. What a surprise considering disfo turns up blue. Nulling anything approaching a read once again. Claims he made an error in his spreadsheet with respect to Tictock and disfo and the earlier comments about who is what team if two mafia are off the main train. Basically irrelevant here. Starts trying to get me to notice that he's said "prpl is a role or mafia"; as if disappointed that people aren't praising him for the comment. Decides to start pushing on disfo, complaining that he's being too easily townread; can kinda see a bit of townie in that.
- Now he's lynching prpl unless he claims and doesn't get CCd. That's a nice little turnaround there considering you'd shown basically no sign of considering him until HtS and I started to push him hard as a lynch target and you haven't even commented on that all that much other than to ask that he claim. Says there's a red between Tictock and prp, y0su and Shining. The prp call is again just following the flow of the thread. He's really drawing attention to y0su being potential scum here which I kinda like in retrospect because right now I'm feeling y0su isn't a bad call either; but ritoky seems more likely given everything so far.
- Starts the stuff about him getting the wagon on HtS going and making excuses that he was intentionally exaggerating it. More stuff about how he doesn't think two mafia are on the secondary wagon (honestly at this point I think that whole argument has just devolved into total WIFOM; we can't know how the mafia voted and scott was probably dying ANYWAY given the number of votes on him). Some general gameplay type comments about how mafia play, obviously ones that makes his actions look town. Calls out prpl to give a claim again. Votes prpl.
- Then tries the whole garbage about "thanks for claiming my role, disfo". I've talked about this exhaustively but he still thinks its an obvious townplay. Its not, not in this setup. All it does is introduce confusion because no WAY does anyone other than a newbie scum team who is not listening to their coaches shoot anyone other than the first claim in a no-PM setup where such a gambit couldn't possibly be prearranged. Mafia doing the safest thing results in precisely what we've got right now: no way for the town to trust that ritoky wasn't trying to pull a fast one and sow confusion. There's a reason everyone seems to be rating him and y0su as basically auto-lynches for today and tomorrow. If they'd been willing to take more of a gamble (and assuming that ritoky IS innocent) then they could have shot another random towny and that could have resulted in the entire day spent just discussing whether to lynch ritoky or disfomation who, under this scenario, would have been both totally innocent. Much more of a gamble, but a bigger payoff potentially. Look into my filter for more stuff on this, last couple of pages of it I think.
- Stuff about statistics. Saying he doesn't want to lynch TT tomorrow (well honestly you mostly give off the impression you don't want to lynch ANYBODY except for a vague attempt to support the HtS lynch day 1). More excuses about your claim which I've already pointed out is just absurd. Claiming AGAIN to be confirmed town. Claiming AGAIN to have started up that wagon on her. Claiming AGAIN about how everything you do is "clearly town-motivated, come on guys, scout's honour". Then trying to get people to meta you (sorry, I don't really buy into meta arguments unless its people I've actually played with).
- Wavering some more over y0su. Claiming yet again that everything done so far was 100% townplay and anyone who says otherwise is wrong or lying. Despite the fact that I don't think anyone actually fully bought into the idea that he was town for it largely because it was never, ever going to work. Spends a bunch of time spewing stuff about how it makes him town and its a 100% correct townplay despite outright being proven wrong by examples of how it screws over town; which he dismisses as "garbage" despite the fact we're actually experiencing one of those examples right now (because, again, loads of people have him as the secondary lynch target after y0su). Then spends a bunch of time trying to undermine me but singularly failing to refute anything at all.
Conclusion:
Sorry but this entire thing looks horrible. Its either really poor townplay with a total lack of conviction on anything except "I'M TOWN" or he's scum. The fact that he doesn't even try to explain himself but dismisses it as "but its obviously town" looks even worse.
EPT
My last few games I had scum but just let other town lead the lynch. So yeah, increasing stubbornness on purpose. :D![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jbdXCNE.gif)
