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United Kingdom20263 Posts
On April 08 2015 06:59 Kupon3ss wrote:
sure, but like you said there's no real single upgrade short of a 970 or 290 that will get you 60/ultra and if low/30 1080 is how it runs on a PS4 then 3570K/660 should be close to 45/medium
The ps4 GPU is actually of similar strength to the 660. It's roughly equivalent to a light-moderate OC'd 7850 or stock 7870. The 660 isn't better than that.
www.anandtech.com/bench/product/857?vs=783
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We also can't forget GTA 4, which port was so awful we shouldn't even speak of it too much. I hope they don't repeat that. The PC's release is ''bigger'' this time around though, so they might have put more effort into it. Regardless, it's very hard to say until we get our Port Report from TB...  The CPU will undoubtedly be the most important part of an open world game though.
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On April 08 2015 07:38 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2015 06:59 Kupon3ss wrote:
sure, but like you said there's no real single upgrade short of a 970 or 290 that will get you 60/ultra and if low/30 1080 is how it runs on a PS4 then 3570K/660 should be close to 45/medium
The ps4 GPU is actually of similar strength to the 660. It's roughly equivalent to a light-moderate OC'd 7850 or stock 7870. The 660 isn't better than that. www.anandtech.com/bench/product/857?vs=783
The PS4's GPU is actually nowhere near 7870, its theoretical performance is equal to that of a 7850 (1.84 vs 1.76 TFLOPS with the same architecture) and its real world performance is actually a bit lower due to the thermal design of the PS4. Combine that with a CPU that is weaker than the upcoming atoms and you get real world performance that is signifcantly weaker than that of a 3570K + 660.
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
ps4 has 1152 core @800mhz with ~160GB/s of memory bandwidth for it
7850 has 1024 cores @860mhz with 153.6GB/s of memory bandwidth
for raw GPU horsepower (that decides resolution you can use) for someone using them at stock, they'd be pretty much indistinguishable.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/783?vs=778
my point is just that they're way too close to suggest a 1.5x performance gap. With a 660 you can generally expect console level graphical settings at console level resolution and FPS for the same games, when GPU limited
WoW, d3 etc are graphically light - i run WoW at 1080p, 2x resolution scale max settings aside from shadows (bugged atm) and get like 200fps whenever GPU limited with a 980.
Dragon age inquisition is probably much closer to Witcher 3. I bet that slows down a lot when you max stuff out and apply 2x AA. If it runs fine for you, maybe you don't need that big of an upgrade - but there's just not that much better to upgrade to right now. GPU tech sucks now, 7950 has been a value king for over three years and there's no sign of AMD replacing it in the next year - functionally at a standstill, stuck on 28nm with nvidia pushing tech forward and prices down meanwhile (since 290 #rekt high end GPU pricing ages ago)
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I have a ps4 and a media center with a 660gtx and I can tell you that the CPU holds the console back far more than you'd expect even if the GPU horsepower is similar, which they're not if the 660 is overclocked at all
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
CPU sucking would just limit FPS (see assassins creed stutterlagfest), they could still turn up resolution until GPU hit 100% load
the ps4 using a resolution pretty much exactly proportional to how much stronger the GPU is than the xbox is a good indicator of being at least decently gpu bound
the CPU's do suck, but they also have API that is a good 6-12 times more efficient than dx11 for issuing draw calls. It's just AI simulation etc that hurts, because that's not much more efficient than on desktop hardware
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i hope witcher 3 is going to be close to inquisition performance wise, running smoothly
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Hi,
I'm thinking about buying a new desktop somewhen, but as I don't need it right away, I'm not sure, if it is worth waiting some time, for example until skylake processors are released...
The PC will be used for gaming as the only really demanding task, I want to be able to play new games for a while, but I am not obsessed with maximal settings. More with it being not too power consuming (specially when doing not so demanding stuff, as I spend more time doing other stuff, sometimes only listening to music, or so). And it should be at least somewhat silent, but this probably goes hand in hand with the former. As operating system I will use linux.
So my questions are, how much will I notice the jump from haswell to broadwell and further to skylake? (As I understand it, the latter will have its first releases in August, does that mean there will be some useable cpus right from the beginning, or is a later time more realistic? For comparison, at the moment, I guess I would go for the i5 4590(S), from a quick look.)
For the video card, I don't even have a picture of what I would pick at the moment, I guess either the GTX 750Ti, or 960, the former for its low power consumption, the second for the better performance. As I understand it, Radeon cards draw a lot more power mostly. But this is just from reading very few tests... How big is the performance difference between those two cards? Are new things which one should consider waiting for about to come out? And what cards could be other/better alternatives.
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
For CPU, the performance gain probably wouldn't be really notable for you. Power usage differences are small unless you're monitoring power very closely or using mobile. We'll probably get pretty much all of the relevant skylake CPU's immediately on launch~
You should still probably get a 4690 - and not a 4690s - because the power consumption difference is minimal in a way that wouldn't really affect your choice of cooling, but there's a slight performance loss
750ti and 960 have similar efficiency, 960 is just faster. By how much i'm not really sure, maybe 1.5x without checking numbers (maybe more, idk). Maxwell (750ti and 900 series arch) efficiency blows everything else away
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Thx Cyro. I wouldn't have guessed that for the cpu, as the jump from ivy-bridge to haswell was very notable for the stuff I work with (some simulations, using blas and lapack mainly). But on the other hand, there you always have the exact times, which can be days or so, compared to parts of seconds for the games, and then latter are probably more gpu- than cpu-demanding anyways...
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
On April 10 2015 15:01 Mr.Loki wrote:
Thx Cyro. I wouldn't have guessed that for the cpu, as the jump from ivy-bridge to haswell was very notable for the stuff I work with (some simulations, using blas and lapack mainly). But on the other hand, there you always have the exact times, which can be days or so, compared to parts of seconds for the games, and then latter are probably more gpu- than cpu-demanding anyways...
Maybe it's 15% faster. But if you really cared about that, wouldn't you OC for 25% performance gain? It's just not revolutionary, to the point where most people who are generally not hardware enthusiasts or playing with benchmarks etc, sensitive to performance might not even notice a single gen jump these days with equal core counts
You could have seen gains with that particular software due to avx2 support or another change. With architectural changes like that, performance gains are very uneven - some software runs almost twice as fast (hammering out nothing but certain types of floating point operations), some gets a 5% benefit from it (video encoding with x264) and some (starcraft 2, most games) gets no benefit at all.
Some game emulators run far far faster on Haswell than previous CPU's - like 1.5x+ faster - because they doubled the L1 cache bandwidth(?) - so if there's stuff like this that particularly effects you, waiting can be a great option - but if not, most stuff would probably just run that standard ~15% faster. That's the rule, but there are crazy exceptions to it if you look in the right places
I'm not sure which significant changes are actually making it into skylake
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I just ordered the Western Digital Blue 1tb HD
![[image loading]](http://static.scan.co.uk/images/products/xlarge/2139676-xl-a.jpg)
And the evga 2gb gt 740
![[image loading]](http://static.evga.com/articles/00845/images/hero/GT740_SC_Dual_angle.png)
Very excited. Cost £43.18 for the hd and £71.69 for the gpu and £5.50 for delivery.
Thankyou very much for the help guys. I will post again in a couple of weeks saying if I got it working (or if I need to get a new motherboard/start over with a new pc lol)
Just a recap of my story incase interested:
My 8800 GT died, and I need a new HD cus I am switching to debian from xp finally!
My specs:
mobo: nForce 650i (C55)
chip: Core 2 quad Q6600 2.4ghz 8mb
mem: 4gb ddr2 667mhz (4x1gb samsung)
gfx: dead (temporary old card)
psu: xfx pro 450w
I have installed debian before on a different machine.
Im gunna try to get the gpu working on xp.
Then Im gunna plug in the new hard drive and immediately install debian on it.
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So my computer is about 6 years old and I think it is about time to re-acquaint myself with hardware in anticipation of a new build. My current build is primarily for gaming as follows.
mobo: AMD 790FX-GD70
processor: AMD phenom II x4 965 (3.4 GHz) packaged with heat sink+fan
memory: 2x 4GB DDR3 G.skill ripjaw
graphics: Radeon HD 5870
power: Apevia ATX-AS680W-BL (680W)
storage: Western Digital Black 640 Gig
case: Raidmax Smilodon ATX-612WBP
Everything worked out of the box and none of the pieces have needed to be replaced in the last 6 years so I have to say I am generally pleased. That said, one consideration I did not take a ton of time on before that I wish I had is volume. The fan included with the processor as well as the fans integrated with the case run at a significant volume. Nothing super annoying but I would be interested what kind of compromises or new technology exists that allow for optimized gaming performance (I have been thinking about streaming a bit on twitch when I get a new comp) and also being as quiet as possible.
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
It's mostly a matter of buying a decent CPU heatsink with fan that can spin quiet at idle. Same for case fans - some decent ones that have low minimum speeds.
GPU noise usually dominates a system at load, but with a good GPU cooler and/or a low power GPU it's not much of an issue
noise dampening cases can be good for a system that doesn't output a huge amount of heat, but they're often limiting for high end systems as they reduce airflow.
Idle noise is very easy - load noise is not so easy, but doable - especially with parts that don't use a lot of power
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It's worth noting that much of the time load noise is less bothersome than idle noise because during load time you're usually actively engaged in something (e.g. playing a game), whereas at idle time you'll be doing minor things like browsing and be more able to notice it since your attention isn't focused on something.
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Can someone give me a critique on this build please? Let me know if there are any parts you guys think I should swap out. Thanks!
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/WX6MdC
What is your budget?
$750
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
Starcraft 2 on low-medium settings.
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
Game/Software development, possibly streaming, web-surfing, playing movies, etc.
Do you intend to overclock?
No
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No
Do you need an operating system?
No
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
Monitor included and is part of budget.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
No
What country will you be buying your parts in?
USA
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
Prefer Newegg, but whatever is cheapest.
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
On April 12 2015 07:09 defnotGeorge wrote:Can someone give me a critique on this build please? Let me know if there are any parts you guys think I should swap out. Thanks! http://pcpartpicker.com/p/WX6MdCWhat is your budget?$750 What is your monitor's native resolution?1920x1080 What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?Starcraft 2 on low-medium settings. What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?Game/Software development, possibly streaming, web-surfing, playing movies, etc. Do you intend to overclock?No Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?No Do you need an operating system?No Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?Monitor included and is part of budget. If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.No What country will you be buying your parts in?USA If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.Prefer Newegg, but whatever is cheapest.
For sc2, you need an intel CPU.
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Just want to say thanks to everyone here who have given my advice and suggestions on building my friend new PC. So I finally got the time to actually assemble all the parts together. + Show Spoiler [Parts list] +
CPU:Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler:Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard:Gigabyte GA-Z97X-GAMING 7 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory:G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 CL10 Memory
Storage: Crucial MX200 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Titanium) ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply:Cooler Master V650 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer
Wireless Network Adapter:Asus USB-N10 802.11b/g/n USB 2.0 Wi-Fi Adapter
Case Fan: Cooler Master JetFlo 95.0 CFM 120mm Fan
Case Fan: Cooler Master XtraFlo 120mm Fan
Case Fan: Fractal Design GP14-WT 68.4 CFM 140mm Fan
Monitor: Dell U2515H 60Hz 25.0" Monitor
So yeah, this being the first time I actually assemble an entire PC from scratch, I expected many hiccups, but still did not prepare for some hilarious and horrible problems along the way. + Show Spoiler [ranting about problems] +
- forgot to get cleaning alcohol and ended up can't install the Noctua because I dont have anything to remove the TIM on the CPU from stock cooler.
- the SSD somehow cannot fit into R5 2.5" drive bay at the back. whatever. just used the normal drive cage.
- A lesson learned is that not all 650W PSU are equal. The reason I wanted a 650W (Seasonic G-650) for this system is because of extra 2 PCI-e cables for potential SLI in the future. But my friend couldnt find the Seasonic G-650 and he got the CM V650 instead. and wtf, V650 only have 2xPCI-e cables T_T.
- Aesthetically, somehow there is a blue LED fan in the system of red and black theme. RAM is also blue T_T
Anyway, I actually have a question regarding case air flow. Originally I planned to have 3 intakes (2 fronts 1 bottom) + 2 exhaust (1 side at the GPU and 1 rear). However the only R5 case available is the one with window, meaning no side exhaust. I now plan to have 2nd exhaust at the top instead + Show Spoiler [visual explanation] + Green = intake, Red = exhaust. Pardon the stock cooler, dont have cleaning alcohol or alternative to remove the TIM to install the Noctua yet ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xF8dyV2.png) http://i.imgur.com/W28HNA7.pngBottom intake = CM XtraFlo 120 Lower front intake = CM JetFlo 120 Upper front intake = Fractal GP14 Rear exhaust = Fractal GP14 Potentially top exhaust = Fractal GP14 + dust filter
Looking for advice on whether it makes sense to do so, or can just stay with 1 exhaust. When NH-D15 is installed, it will probably block the top exhaust i think. Also, those Fractal GP14 are connected to the case fan controller, while CM fans are connected to motherboard sys_fan controllers.
edit: one more thing, there is no speaker onboard/on-case. While not really needed, having one wouldn't hurt for the start up beep code. Is there some sort of embedded super small speaker that can be plugged into the speaker header on the motherboard?
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United Kingdom20263 Posts
Maybe you can get more pci-e cables for the v650, IDK
Looking for advice on whether it makes sense to do so, or can just stay with 1 exhaust.
It's better to have positive pressure airflow, but intake fans (especially lower rpm ones) are restricted a lot because they have to deal with dust filters and stuff like that drive cage. There's no big need for another exhaust - it might maybe even be good to run a top intake (the slot closest to the front) if you want to run more fans.
You can remove those white slot covers under the GPU (all of them) to improve airflow a little bit at the cost of a little more noise. They're like mine, so you can easily store them and screw them back in at some point if you ever had a reason for it, though i can't imagine wanting to do it myself
dust filter on exhaust hurts you without helping you. It blocks airflow and creates additional noise but at that point you're only collecting dust which has already been through your whole system and stuck on whatever it's gonna stick on. The general idea is to run positive pressure (so air can only enter your case through the intakes) and then filter the intakes, and while that's often ignored it's actually quite important to get at least kinda right.
You can clean thermal paste with a little bit of water and a kitchen cloth and/or a t-shirt - you're just not really supposed to :D in reality if it's shiny clean then the little imperfections and cloth fibers/whatever don't actually hurt performance in a notable way AFAIK. At the very least, badly applying thermal paste will kill your temperatures a lot more :D
gz on the build
btw, the fans on the motherboard fan control are probably by default set to vary RPM by CPU temperature. That has a few issues though, it might not be particularly sensitive for spinning up - and CPU temperatures are not at all strongly representative of case air temperatures, which is the actual thing that you base airflow around. It's a good, simple and cheap way to get quiet idle speeds though.
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Use 90% Alcohol with Q-tips and a micro-fiber cloth. That's what I used to clean up thermal paste multiple times. Q-tips don't leave too much fiber if you're careful and micro-fiber leaves nothing
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EPT
