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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
For starters, can we sit down and explain to me why ritoky is scum? Explain it to me like I'm 5. I don't really understand this push. Something about him opening his present/a meta case on Holyflare? I'm only vaguely aware of it but people are piling onto him so apparently I missed something big. Also, that FN case is pretty meh. | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
HF - wasted enough time by now, if you don't get it you don't get it. FF - My case on him from earlier where he directly sheeped my read, basically word for word. I then asked him what his read on me was, he responded null and tried to dumb tell by claiming to have not read my post that he just sheeped 5 posts later. It is not a town perspective to sheep a read that hard from someone you don't have any town vibes from at all. It is strange, it makes no sense, and he is mafia for it. If that is not enough, take LoneMeow's case, which I think is pretty much a slam dunk case: On December 10 2014 18:21 LoneMeow wrote: I could lynch this guy. First posts a large amount of mostly oneliners that aren't pertinent to finding scum, then says he's near the post limit so he's going to lurk. So anti town. There's also this: He dropped his scum read (which I assume was his strongest, given where his vote was) due to the "claim" but didn't reasses the situation in any way once the "claim" was explained to be a misunderstanding. Not what I would expect from a town player in that situation. ##Vote: Fecalfeast He managed to near his post limit early in day 1 without really doing much of anything other than being snarky and giving one liners. Then there's the still pretty much unaddressed portion of the case about why he didn't reasses his read. He removes his scum read predicated on a claim that wasn't actually a claim, but when she admits it isn't a claim he just keeps on his merry way. Here is his best attempt at addressing it: On December 11 2014 07:20 Fecalfeast wrote: It'd be playing against win-con to not at least give it the ol' college try. So I didn't reasses the situation because my vote on 27NB was a sheep vote anyway. All I want to do is sheep because I can't be assed to read the thread properly one time, let alone over again, to form a good read. I like vote logic and meta reads and I've not played with half the people in this game before. I play the role of useful idiot as town and I'm not about to deviate from that. That said, I would love to shennanigan onto kush again. Worked once when he lurked all day! He is pretty much mocking it and claiming to be a "useful" idiot....ain't seen the use yet. On top of that nearly every person who died during the night had a scum read on him, and after they have died there's nearly 0 pressure on the guy this phase. He is pretty much confirmed scum to me, even more than HF. Leaning Scum: Kels - Still pretty much the same read as before: On December 11 2014 11:12 ritoky wrote: work op, wait what..... what happened to that read? you posted my name a total 0 times in your entire filter between when you made a read of me as town for making a good read on LS and trapping ff, WHO YOU THOUGHT WAS SCUM FOR MY REASONS; and then all of the sudden i am scum. because apparently i haven't done anything all game...yet in your filter you like what i did? you don't even mention me in the little blurb, i am just paired with OWS and you talk about OWS. like why am i even in this read? especially when it is contrary to what you previously said. kels just seems like he changed his read because of thread sentiment, not because he actually believes it; hell he doesn't even try to justify the terrible read because he knows it is so terrible. this is not a read town makes at all, he is probably mafia. He doesn't just magically forget his read on me, he calls me useless, uses part of my read on ff to justify his scum read, then suddenly flips me from town to mafia without a word. On top of that I think Vivax has a reasonable case on him regarding his lack of followup on his ff read and Vivax seems pretty town. I also don't think it would be unreasonable for him to be on a teammate (FF) since I know the other 2 votes on FF were confirmed town. Light scum vibes: OWS - I don't think I have ever seen OWS this disengaged in a game before. Outside of that he called the bunnies lynch bad once early on, then he was indifferent toward it later with posts like this: On December 11 2014 03:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't know how you guys expect to get anything done if you don't sheep. That's how you make lynches happen. @kita: I don't really feel particularly strongly about bunnies either way. I think Koshi really hit a nail on the head when he asked if we could produce a towncase on her, and I really don't feel like I can make one. I don't feel like any of the arguments levied against her make her mafia and I like where my vote is right now. But if nb dies...Meh. That's fine I guess. On December 11 2014 06:43 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't really care much for this nb wagon, but I don't really know where else I would deflect the vote. Just a little out of sorts and character; don't know exactly what to make of him so he has light scum feelings for me. sicklucker - I am still debating whether I think that was a scum slip when he claimed to know for certain that damdred died from opening the present. his logic surrounding me is murky at best, plus he initially criticized from a place (along with GB) that was based on purely false information. He also did that weird bit at the beginning of the game where he claimed named townie with a present and dumb told that he thought the name of his role all were given the presents. Could have been a ploy as mafia to try and get yourself pretty much confirmed early on. Mostly it is just the scum slip thing though, I am undecided on it as of now; so light scum feelings. | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On December 12 2014 14:58 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Under normal circumstances I can at least gauge thread atmosphere and get a feel for what mafia is doing, especially since thread atmosphere is my specialty. I just...Can't do it. It's really bothering me. For starters, can we sit down and explain to me why ritoky is scum? Explain it to me like I'm 5. I don't really understand this push. Something about him opening his present/a meta case on Holyflare? I'm only vaguely aware of it but people are piling onto him so apparently I missed something big. Also, that FN case is pretty meh. From what I can understand of the case against me it is the following: I tunneled on LS for good reasons, LS did a bunch of stuff and I read him town, I then shifted to FF. People read that as me being bloodthirsty, and they felt my reads were manufactured/exaggerated. Still haven't been told why by a single person even though I have asked probably 10 times by now. Outside of that HF thinks I am scum because he thinks my read on him is impossible and made up; even though I feel it is fairly convincing. Some people have also claimed (damdred did I think) I don't follow through on my reads, which...I mean..yeah just look at my filter. Then the most recent think is people thinking I have scum motivations for announcing I was opening the present I was given right before phase change. I have explained that as mafia I would never open a present with a 1 in 3 shot of killing me when I have tons of kp, and why I felt announcing it was an overall net positive for the town. People think I am either lying (even though GB confirmed he gave me the present) or am scum for whatever reason. Think that about covers it. | ||
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liancourt
1563 Posts
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
Find a new lynch you dweebs. | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On December 12 2014 15:21 liancourt wrote: ritoky what present did you get? I don't think it is beneficial to claim it at this moment as mafia as HF is, I kinda agree with him in terms of procedure on this point: On December 12 2014 10:02 Holyflare wrote: Why do you keep trying to get this out of him?? Nobody should claim their present till it is used. Stop Unless you can tell me why it is beneficial in a compelling way to claim it now. | ||
Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
I honestly feel bad for joining this game when i knew i shouldn't. I'm voting tubesack and lurking i don't really care to read all this new stuff. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
- Commenting that one of LS' town reads voted another town read (like that is at all significant) - Random townread on slam based on...what? meta from a game slam was afk in for rl reasons...yeah, that's strong (ignores this when pointed out to him and continues to read slam as town) - Keeps reading into comments to claim that ppl are saying they know things that they can't know: i.e. HTS on kush claiming scrooge not considering he was scum, SL on the kill present with Damdred thing, Templar on mafia RB as if it isn't a /possibility/ that mafia might have one - Nitpicking HTS for froggy in null section for no apparent reason (at least he doesn't explain it if he has one) - FF read is entirely about FF "sheeping" Ritoky's reasons for scumreading LS (meta) - weak case with so much available - Nitpicking yet again for froggy in null section, this time in FFs reads, and complains about them all even though FF was specifically asked to make reads on those people - Move off of LS onto FF seems to coincide with general thread feelings - Case against HF is almost entirely (if not entirely) meta - Takes cue from GB about HF still being alive and immediately starts tunneling (after stupid you think i'm mafia exchange with GB) - 1 in 3 kill chance means nothing when we have no way to confirm that he opened a present, only that he says he did - if he was town and did open a present only an idiot would claim that to be RBd or killed by mafia the next night, which he refuses to see despite the fact that it's glaringly obvious So yeah. I'd say that's enough to vote him for. At least it meets my threshold. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On December 12 2014 15:43 rsoultin wrote: Issues w/ Ritoky (some if not all of which have been mentioned before): - Commenting that one of LS' town reads voted another town read (like that is at all significant) - Random townread on slam based on...what? meta from a game slam was afk in for rl reasons...yeah, that's strong (ignores this when pointed out to him and continues to read slam as town) - Keeps reading into comments to claim that ppl are saying they know things that they can't know: i.e. HTS on kush claiming scrooge not considering he was scum, SL on the kill present with Damdred thing, Templar on mafia RB as if it isn't a /possibility/ that mafia might have one - Nitpicking HTS for froggy in null section for no apparent reason (at least he doesn't explain it if he has one) - FF read is entirely about FF "sheeping" Ritoky's reasons for scumreading LS (meta) - weak case with so much available - Nitpicking yet again for froggy in null section, this time in FFs reads, and complains about them all even though FF was specifically asked to make reads on those people - Move off of LS onto FF seems to coincide with general thread feelings - Case against HF is almost entirely (if not entirely) meta - Takes cue from GB about HF still being alive and immediately starts tunneling (after stupid you think i'm mafia exchange with GB) - 1 in 3 kill chance means nothing when we have no way to confirm that he opened a present, only that he says he did - if he was town and did open a present only an idiot would claim that to be RBd or killed by mafia the next night, which he refuses to see despite the fact that it's glaringly obvious So yeah. I'd say that's enough to vote him for. At least it meets my threshold. This is bad analysis. None of this makes him mafia. I do apologize for having to leave the thread at what seems to be a relatively important moment, but it's 2 AM and I need to go to sleep so I can work tomorrow. This game gets the works after I'm done. | ||
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Things generally don't "make" people mafia, anyway. It's usually about the whole picture. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On December 12 2014 15:49 rsoultin wrote: Give me something better OWS and I'll change my vote. Things generally don't "make" people mafia, anyway. It's usually about the whole picture. See, the thing is that the points you listed don't really mean anything, even when you put them all together. How is he pushing mafia objectives? How can he only be doing these things as mafia? Why can't town!ritoky do these things? What are you comparing them to and why, why is it different and why does it make him scum in this circumstance? Being able to personify his play and his arguments doesn't make him mafia. You might not be looking things to "make" someone mafia, but saying "the big picture" and then just listing the things he did doesn't really mean anything on its own. | ||
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liancourt
1563 Posts
mafia wont take any chance in case you have the seer present so they'll kill you tonight and if you do survive the night town will kill you day 3. either way you're a dead man ritoky. why did you claim to have opened a present???? i just don't understand from a town perspective. what good does it do to town? | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On December 12 2014 15:43 rsoultin wrote: Issues w/ Ritoky (some if not all of which have been mentioned before): - Commenting that one of LS' town reads voted another town read (like that is at all significant) - Random townread on slam based on...what? meta from a game slam was afk in for rl reasons...yeah, that's strong (ignores this when pointed out to him and continues to read slam as town) - Keeps reading into comments to claim that ppl are saying they know things that they can't know: i.e. HTS on kush claiming scrooge not considering he was scum, SL on the kill present with Damdred thing, Templar on mafia RB as if it isn't a /possibility/ that mafia might have one - Nitpicking HTS for froggy in null section for no apparent reason (at least he doesn't explain it if he has one) - FF read is entirely about FF "sheeping" Ritoky's reasons for scumreading LS (meta) - weak case with so much available - Nitpicking yet again for froggy in null section, this time in FFs reads, and complains about them all even though FF was specifically asked to make reads on those people - Move off of LS onto FF seems to coincide with general thread feelings - Case against HF is almost entirely (if not entirely) meta - Takes cue from GB about HF still being alive and immediately starts tunneling (after stupid you think i'm mafia exchange with GB) - 1 in 3 kill chance means nothing when we have no way to confirm that he opened a present, only that he says he did - if he was town and did open a present only an idiot would claim that to be RBd or killed by mafia the next night, which he refuses to see despite the fact that it's glaringly obvious So yeah. I'd say that's enough to vote him for. At least it meets my threshold. 1) Oh wow, I posted something you didn't think was significant. Bet I can't find one of those in your filter. 2) Random town read on slam like 5 hrs into the game (no context given this is a recurring problem from you), less town reading slam now but he still leans town. 3) What is wrong with this? It is also reaction testing to see if they fold when they slip up. I backed off of some, didn't others. 4) Calling someone out on a bullshit read is anti-town? 5) What is wrong with my read, it is right above this in its entirety, and FF just said even he understands it. And that guy is mafia. 6) Moved off of LS onto FF who I called scum before anyone else because that was the time when LS returned to the thread and answered questions...was I supposed to start town reading him before he actually responded to anything? 7) My case against HF is good. 8) I attacked HF DURING NIGHT PHASE, factually incorrect. 9) I opened the present, get over it. 10) This is analysis from a perspective of me revealing I was doing it AFTER the flip and AFTER the damdred info. Not before, which was when I actually claimed it. Funny you had 0 problem with it then. Like....this is seriously terrible. You got anything else that actually is a good point? | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On December 12 2014 15:54 liancourt wrote: it's obvious you have the kill present or the seer present. mafia wont take any chance in case you have the seer present so they'll kill you tonight and if you do survive the night town will kill you day 3. either way you're a dead man ritoky. why did you claim to have opened a present???? i just don't understand from a town perspective. what good does it do to town? again since not a soul seemed to have read this post, that i keep referring people to. On December 12 2014 08:30 ritoky wrote: first, there's no guarantee that there is even a RB in the game (you seem to have not read the rules for a 2nd time). second, in the event i die it can clarify why for town. third, if there is an rb and i eat it, it means there was no rb on potential cop/vigi/doc...which is good. don't see how it is a bad thing to claim it. plus now you know that if you are holding a present, there's a 1 in 2 chance it will kill you if you open it. idk, it does so much net positive imo. this is why i said it. | ||
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liancourt
1563 Posts
you could have done this at the end of night 2 near the deadline. "Hey guys i opened a present on night 1 and i got a seer present. i'm seering xx." there was absolutely no reason for you to do it now during the day. And i dont' see any reason why you are not revealing what present you have. don't see how it is a bad thing to claim it. plus now you know that if you are holding a present, there's a 1 in 2 chance it will kill you if you open it. no...if you can deduce from the night outcomes and what SL has said the most logical explanation is that SL gave the death present to damdred and he opened and commited seppuku. If you think otherwise i'd like to hear an explanation as to why you still think there's a death present lying around. I really just dont understand why you'd claim during the day and be a target to mafia during the night. | ||
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sicklucker
Canada16986 Posts
Sure a Rber isint guaranteed but its more then likely. >50%. Besides the cop these presents are towns biggest tool so diverting attention away is pretty stupid too. A good town would stay under the radar untill tormorow. Like a town would admit they made a mistake. I tried to town read you but I just cant | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
On December 12 2014 16:21 liancourt wrote: no no and no you could have done this at the end of night 2 near the deadline. "Hey guys i opened a present on night 1 and i got a seer present. i'm seering xx." there was absolutely no reason for you to do it now during the day. And i dont' see any reason why you are not revealing what present you have. no...if you can deduce from the night outcomes and what SL has said the most logical explanation is that SL gave the death present to damdred and he opened and commited seppuku. If you think otherwise i'd like to hear an explanation as to why you still think there's a death present lying around. I really just dont understand why you'd claim during the day and be a target to mafia during the night. if i do it not on n1, and i just randomly die; there's no explanation as to why which leaves it a mystery for town. and even worse it wouldn't be a stretch for someone to fake a vigi claim later and claim me as a shot given the thread sentiment of me at the time. that coupled with the positives of me having to eat either a shot from mafia or a rb or both which frees up other power roles is a overall gain scenario. i didn't do it during the day, i did it right before the night phase change, why is it everyone seems to have their facts wrong in this? simple scenario for how damdred died: SL passed him a present, he opened it/kept it to pass, it wasn't the sepuku, mafia shot damdred, present is lost. i don't see why that is an unfeasible scenario in the slightest. as for why i am not claiming which one i have, if there's a roleblocker you're probably right and there's no point to keep it secret. but if there is no roleblocker, then it is beneficial imo to keep it secret. | ||
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
look at my reads post, which by the way not a single person has commented on. and look into my accusers who are not trying to develop any reads at all based on interactions or people's opinions/reactions to this information. | ||
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