EPT[I] TLLOLOTGDTM - Page 99
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
OWB, honestly he was just a lurker to me, but once he started posting more, as I said, he sounded less and less town. That's why I wanted Soniv to check him (if he didn't die, that is). Sorry, work's been a bit nutty since I woke up so I'll follow up on more later. I don't particularly agree with the early Asmo train but I will dutifully go back into his filter and try to find reasons to investigate. Alz, those are fairly decent breadcrumbs, I can get more behind you now. Which, sadly, means you're likely deady deadertons tonight </3 | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Asmo, Wave, Req. I know I'm pulling a Mordek, here, but frankly Wave is giving me the heebie jeebies with how he's been speaking once he's comfortable that everyone thinks he's town. He's also being a little too dismissive of Req to make me comfortable (although Wave admittedly does play mafia like a complete asshole). Requizen is just there because he's less town than Alz and Alaric to me, but I really want to say as well that I'm not totally sure I buy the town poisoner role. It makes sense, but it was revealed very early in the day. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I'm not 100% sold on Asmo either for the record, he's just my default for now. Again I think the most productive use of time is scouring owb's filter and seeing what connections are made with him and why. I'll post a bunch later with what I've found so far if I get the chance. I do think at this point it is inevitable that we are dealing with some bold-faced lying somewhere because after Asmo we're out of low content/unclaimed posters (VT claims don't count) | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On October 18 2014 01:34 WaveofShadow wrote: Upon reading owb's filter, I think the poisoner claim could be fake. I have to do some looking into owb's past games too. I really want to hear more about this, I can't make anything out of OWB's filter. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
His father is pretty juicy tbh. Try to get into the mindset if what he was trying to accomplish with his posting and why. For an obvious example, his no-lynch vote on D1 was to avoid leaving his vote on a teammates afking/avoid any incrimination whatsoever. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
Fucking autocorrect | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
On October 18 2014 01:48 WaveofShadow wrote: His father is pretty juicy tbh. LOL | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On October 18 2014 01:48 WaveofShadow wrote: His father is pretty juicy tbh.  | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Corpses can't eat popcorn. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
On October 18 2014 01:46 Requizen wrote: Despite the lack of proof, for some reason I find mordek's claim really easy to swallow. I don't know if that's bad or if other people get the same feeling. It's hard to prove when the guy you poisoned was shot and you used the antidote on him. It was that or use it on someone random and even then, no one is notified I don't think. I can only point to how it's consistent with my votes and reads and once I realized I wasn't going to be able to say "Hey, guys I'm the one who killed Soniv" I went into breadcrumb mode (inspired by jcarl) because I wasn't sure if I needed to shield anyone else. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
SO much care going on in this thread I can't even believe. Ok I'll post what I found in owb's filter and you guys can muse on it if you will. On October 13 2014 02:57 onlywonderboy wrote: Alright, I'm gonna do something unpopular now but I don't really feel comfortable doing anything else ##Vote: No-lynch I've been busy pretty much all weekend with my Homecoming so I haven't even been able to read the entire thread. Also I thought I worked at 4 so I was going to read it in the morning but apparently I worked from 10-4 so now I'm stuck here till the lynch deadline. I don't feel comfortable calling for a lynch when I don't feel like I've had enough time to read and try to figure out motives. I realize this doesn't help the town very much but making baseless accusations isn't going to help either. Tolkien isn't wrong that I haven't helped much, but I'm actually going to have free time tomorrow and will be able to contribute. You guys only have my word now but that's the best I can give. Already mentioned this post---apologetic, absolving himself of responsibility. Typical mafia MO. On October 13 2014 11:59 onlywonderboy wrote: Alright. First things first, I think the push for Wave being scum is mostly unwarranted. He has a lot of experience so it's easy to get caught up in the idea of "OMG if he's mafia we're screwed because he has the most experience and we have to be extra suspicious of him." That said, his play hasn't been inherently scummy. There have been several occasions where's he's tried to take control of the conversation and guide the town away from certain topics (the modkill discussion comes to mind). I believe that's honestly him trying to move the town in the direction of finding scum instead of limiting town options. He was the most active member Day 1 and I think he did the town more good than harm Day 1, no reason to even consider him for a Day 2 lynch atm. That said, even though ketchup is the one pushing back on Wave's play the most, I also think he's town. I can see how Wave's play could seem abrasive and confusing to newer players so I think ketchup is just seeing it as scum play even though sometimes it takes a strong hand to lead the town in the right direction. As far as scum goes I currently believe Asmo is scum. He's been fairly vocal but I don't think he's really contributed much of note. His actions around the lynch just seems a little off too. He switched off Ghandi just because of his long impassioned post that didn't really have that much substance. I think he felt comfortable pushing MB because it was clear a lot of people agreed it was a fine lynch and he could easily fall back on the defense of "he was a lurker anyway" when MoonBear flipped town. He did push MB early, but that was done to call him out for being a lurker which, again, can easily be defended. Pushing lurkers is important but it can also be a tactic for scum to actively look like they are doing town work. Also I don't like his post after the lynch. Just seems like he's trying to play up the fact he's a noob and his actions should be pardoned because he went about the first night wrong. Just rubbed me the wrong way. This post is the one I pointed out yesterday. Complete parroting of basically everything I had said throughout the game thus far, and had INTIMATE knowledge somehow of what was actually going on with me when so many other people remained suspicious. This is a mafia slip in which he 'knows too much,' allowing him to look really smart/right and buddies up to me---nobody else was able to come up with the correct analysis like he did so the only way he could have known what I was doing is by knowing I was town. Technically this (and the other instances) should somewhat clear me as town as well because scum don't buddy their partners like this and create intimate connections to their teammates but whatever, you guys can make the call on that one. Now it's important to note who owb actually made contact with. It's usually less likely that scum hold meaningful conversation with their partners because it can be harder to fake. For example his interaction with Alaric is limited to On October 14 2014 01:34 onlywonderboy wrote: Seems a little odd you call out Alzadar for defending Wave when I've arguably been defending him much harder. On October 15 2014 01:28 onlywonderboy wrote: Not as if it's been completely unwarranted, sometimes the easy option is the right option. One liners, both useless answers/non-contributory. He draws a lot of attention to both Jeff and Req, holding a large conversation with Req specifically. Given the distance that Req/owb seem to have taken in their playstyles I'm not so inclined to clear req based on his interaction with owb because it simply gives them more opportunity to show off their differences, but still, their long conversation makes it slightly unlikely. I think Jeff looks better for the way owb pushed for an interesting reason. It doesn't look as though owb had intentions to seriously bus this game based on the targets he chose. 'Now Wave', you ask, 'he pushed Asmo before and you think Asmo is scum! Wouldn't that be bussing?' Not necessarily. The difference between this post on Jeff On October 14 2014 12:04 onlywonderboy wrote: I'm pretty comfortable leaving my vote on Ghandi. He's been fairly active since Day 2 started but some of his post have been really terror. The bickering with Wave didn't really produce anything of worth. Also there's this gem. Not sure how he takes Wave's textbook definition of good mafia play and turns it into a negative...Also he goes onto trying to make reads once it's clear discrediting Wave isn't going to work. I don't feel like he really made any sort of useful insight despite the length of his post. I can basically sum up the entire post saying lurkers are scummy and people that contribute aren't scummy (unless you are Wave). Also we already criticized Req for just putting out a list of thoughts on everyone (although maybe he didn't read that post :p). So in general I'm just not a huge fan of his play so far into Day 2. That said it's early and I'm not locked into this vote. I've mentioned my suspicions of Asmo before so I'm interested to hear what he has to say once he gets back into the game. and this one on Asmo On October 13 2014 11:59 onlywonderboy wrote: Alright. First things first, I think the push for Wave being scum is mostly unwarranted. He has a lot of experience so it's easy to get caught up in the idea of "OMG if he's mafia we're screwed because he has the most experience and we have to be extra suspicious of him." That said, his play hasn't been inherently scummy. There have been several occasions where's he's tried to take control of the conversation and guide the town away from certain topics (the modkill discussion comes to mind). I believe that's honestly him trying to move the town in the direction of finding scum instead of limiting town options. He was the most active member Day 1 and I think he did the town more good than harm Day 1, no reason to even consider him for a Day 2 lynch atm. That said, even though ketchup is the one pushing back on Wave's play the most, I also think he's town. I can see how Wave's play could seem abrasive and confusing to newer players so I think ketchup is just seeing it as scum play even though sometimes it takes a strong hand to lead the town in the right direction. As far as scum goes I currently believe Asmo is scum. He's been fairly vocal but I don't think he's really contributed much of note. His actions around the lynch just seems a little off too. He switched off Ghandi just because of his long impassioned post that didn't really have that much substance. I think he felt comfortable pushing MB because it was clear a lot of people agreed it was a fine lynch and he could easily fall back on the defense of "he was a lurker anyway" when MoonBear flipped town. He did push MB early, but that was done to call him out for being a lurker which, again, can easily be defended. Pushing lurkers is important but it can also be a tactic for scum to actively look like they are doing town work. Also I don't like his post after the lynch. Just seems like he's trying to play up the fact he's a noob and his actions should be pardoned because he went about the first night wrong. Just rubbed me the wrong way. Are the fact that in the Asmo post he doesn't add any new information to it, just reiterates the stuff others said, while in the Jeff post he pushes HARDER, adding points about how Jeff turned my own stuff against me and whatnot. If owb isn't looking to seriously bus (as can be seen by the hard push on soniv earlier) then if Jeff is scum, posting something like this could get him lynched, especially when he was under crazy scrutiny. Jeff looks much better for this. On October 15 2014 03:08 onlywonderboy wrote: ketchup vote was still a shitty play. Revenge voting doesn't really help town. It was distracting, but I'm glad you at least dropped the vote now. You that willing to commit to a Wave vote? I've been pretty vocal that I think Wave is town, but I wonder what other people have to say since he's been away for a while, wonder if people's opinions have changed. lolol tossing feelers out to see if Req's shit would take hold. Again, I wonder about Req because of this On October 15 2014 01:55 onlywonderboy wrote: Ah okay, sorry about the misquote. I think you're misreading Wave's attempts to lead the town as being manipulative. I think is a direct result of him trying to guide the newbs which actually backfired on him. It also sounds like you're getting really down on yourself because the game isn't going as you hope. That's kinda how I felt during my newbie games. I'm leaning towards Req just being discourage town rather than scum. Attempt to buddy just like me or scum trying to keep the heat off/make his partner not look so shitty? I think the second option is less likely given that Req didn't seem like he wanted to give up on me even after owb gives him an out. Makes req look town. On October 15 2014 13:46 onlywonderboy wrote: Couple things. I'm in the camp that Req is just frustrated town. Call me out for parroting or whatever but I honestly think he's just upset with the game because he's trying to contribute and he just gets called scum for it. Coming from personal experience with my own newbie mafia games I can say I felt similarly. That said I don't think Soniv is scum for pushing him so hard. Him and Wave are interestingly enough two sides of the same coin when it comes to Req. Wave is ready to believe his play is just shitty town based on his personality while Soniv is worried we're falling into a trap and giving him too much leeway because we know him. If Req has tricked us like this it would be some pretty good scum play. Wasn't a fan of Asmo's return post but that was picked apart pretty clean by Wave and Soniv. Wish he has been able to post more that the one main rebuttal. That bolded post. Look at how he nonchalantly adds Asmo at the end who was a scumread of his earlier but makes no effort to actually analyze him rather than the continued stuff on Soniv being scum. Distancing 101. Now for what I said earlier: On October 16 2014 03:16 onlywonderboy wrote: Well this post has certainly piqued my interest. Doesn't mean he's scum for sure but I'm alright putting the ball in his court right now. ##unvote ##vote: mordek On October 16 2014 04:02 onlywonderboy wrote: I can get behind what Soniv is saying here. I've already said I think he's played better than Jeff during Day 2 so between the two I'm still going to vote Jeff. In fact ##Unvote ##Vote GhandiEAGLE The Jeff flip will give us insight into Soniv's alignment and we can decide whether or not we trust him from there. If they are both mafia it would be a pretty masterful bus. These posts came one after another (with mordek posting a decent defense in between) but owb MAKES NO MENTION OF IT when changing his vote over to ghandi. ketchup questioned this at the time as well. I put that vote on mordek not to question him, as I mentioned earlier, but because I had a strong townread on him at the time and wanted to see who else would jump on a bandwagon. owb didn't disappoint. The fact that he jumped off so unbelievably quick could show that owb was afraid it was gaining traction and didn't want mordek going down. On October 16 2014 05:31 onlywonderboy wrote: [/b][/b]Can't tell if I'm just falling into a defend myself again but I don't want to just let this post sit. What day one flips are you even talking about? I was away for most of the game and I voted no lynch because I wasn't confident in my reads due to the lack of time I was able to put into the game. Early I was clear I thought Wave is town and Asmo is scummy (which I still believe). The most flip floppy thing I've done is the mordek vote which I already explained. If hadn't already switched back to you I think this post would have made me. This exchange doesn't read like scum on scum. Note another nod in asmos' direction and still no real analysis/explanation in days. He has a TON of interaction with Req s | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I mentioned his jumping on Alaric when I barely posted something as well and here were his responses On October 16 2014 06:11 onlywonderboy wrote: Uhg. I'm trying to stay active and I happened to read your post in class and that got me thinking about Alaric. I realized he hadn't voted yet and I thought it was weird. Hey, at least I didn't just agree he was scummy because of his weird green text questions. I mean I could have just not said anything but I don't see how that helps us catch scum. On October 16 2014 06:23 onlywonderboy wrote: That is true, you never said that specially, I just interpreted that as you implying we needed to keep an eye on him more which you wouldn't have said if you thought he was leaning town. Not particularly strong and again I think it makes Alaric look just a smidge better. Looking at Asmo's filter real quick: Here is his ONLY mention of owb in his entire filter. On October 15 2014 10:40 AsmodeusXI wrote: Okay. Back and ready to fight on. After my post, Soniv's made decent plays as both scum and town (WIFOM, I know, just bear with me). He's marginally addressed my post: not drawing too much attention to it, but also no hard denial/OMGUS. That's a town reaction, especially so far from deadline. He's also found someone to go after, which is the town's good work should Req bleed red. That's another seemingly town interaction. However, the manipulation factor is still relevant. At this point, we all kinda know how Req plays: volatile states, prone to lashing out. It's emotional play because Req's a sensitive dude (and this is not meant to offend sir), and it's easily manipulatable (even ketchup got his goat, and that was probably unintentional). If Soniv wants to cover his tracks well, the best way to do it is to set off Req since it's unlikely he'll be able to get a rise out of Wave at this point, and no one else has proven to be so easy to control (again, don't mean to offend buddy). That also fits in with the "fake anger" that Alaric pointed out: play an emotional game, get easy emotional feedback. I think the intent of this is to get the focus away from Soniv and onto Req, and I think it's working. Which is dangerous (Wave sees that). Furthermore, Soniv's other reads are still lurkers like Coma and Ghandi. I genuinely don't believe that lynching a lurker does the town that much good atm. I think the scummers are at least more active than Coma, especially since they had a pretty great first cycle. When you're winning, you stay more invested. I believe any given lurker is most likely to be town, including Coma, despite his lack of good content (which pisses me off a lot, but doesn't necessarily make him scum). Unfortunately for those of us on Soniv's trail, Jeff is another story. Jeff's posting looks fishy as fuck, fishy enough that most people smell stink coming from his direction, real or not. What's interesting to me about Soniv's perspectives is that there have been indications that (after Req) Soniv's next target is Coma, and not the more egregiously suspicious Jeff. For posterity (and I acknowledge this may have changed): To me, this says that Jeff is sacrificial scum: the scum (read: Soniv) know he's going down eventually, but they're going to try and put off a lynch on him until they get as many lurky town-peeps as possible. Definitely Coma, but I don't know if it ends there. Maybe Soniv rounds back on Alz (but here my reasoning gets less event-based, so let's avoid mere ideas). @Cixah - I think you can gather from my thoughts that I think Req is misguided town. If he's scum, it's a damn masterful job. owb is less clear. Not a lot of content, lots of questioning without a real opinion in a while, and his last vote with an OMGUS against Jeff. That doesn't look very town. owb for me at the moment is leaning scum, just from those three things, now that I think about them. But he could also be genuinely curious and unsure in a mafia game. His posts read like they do in RL. So I can't be sure. I also can't get a read on mordek to save my life, but with a soniv vote that leans me in favor of town for now, just for agreement's sake. We'll see. As far as participation goes, I have some thoughts to share post-game. However, now they'll just come off as noob whine or some other cancer, so it's not really the time nor place. TL;DR - I'm still feeling good about my scum read on Soniv, so that's where I'll stay. LT wouldn't be the first person he's convinced he's town (that honor is mine), so I'm not letting up until this ugly feeling is gone, hopefully in the form of some red blood. On October 17 2014 07:05 AsmodeusXI wrote: Similarly, if there's an overwhelming consensus about my scumminess, check me. GF, methinks? lynch dis guy, guise. I'm not nearly as sure about mordek and I don't think I'd lynch him based on the connections with owb on their own---Asmo looks way more guilty and we can get him first and give mordek more time and figure stuff out. This is 100% the way to go though guys. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On October 18 2014 14:24 WaveofShadow wrote: You know, for somebody with Asmo as his top scumread, you really should vote him, or you know, do SOMETHING don't you think? In fairness to my case, in the next posts after I ask for a check, I remember that GF is a thing and shrug with the uselessness of it all. To be honest, I'd probably want to lynch myself too after TWO anti-townie campaigns gone wrong. Unfortunately, I'm the only one who knows I'm innocent. In an effort to redeem myself, I'll deep dive into some filters to find scum when I can up until deadline. | ||
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