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your Country52797 Posts
There are filters to get rid of stuff dota and non-dota people alike don't like and the same people would get introduced to LiquidDota or Liquid, so why bother moving everything?
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On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb.  Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible.
it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
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sad wagon as well, i used to check dota stuff as a side course; i guess it´s a test to see if i can carry my interest to the dota page now, probably not
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On May 12 2014 09:27 The_Templar wrote:
There are filters to get rid of stuff dota and non-dota people alike don't like and the same people would get introduced to LiquidDota or Liquid, so why bother moving everything?
Because of this:
On May 12 2014 08:05 Zealously wrote:So, as promised, here is a summary of what the interested staff members had to say about the idea of moving Dota2 to its own site: - The issue of too much content: Yes, filters exist. But as a rule of thumb, I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of TL's visitors do not know of or do not use filters, and first-time visitors were very likely to feel overwhelmed by the abundance of content - with Dota and two Starcrafts, there was so much of it that it became periodically hard to navigate. It is true that filters may be the most comfortable solution for established members, but if you come to a new site you typically don't want to go through the trouble of finding a filter function before you start browsing through the stuff you're interested in. With Liquiddota, TL goes back to being a source of Starcraft news, and thus more 'welcoming' for Starcraft fans visiting the site for the first time, whereas Liquiddota becomes a dedicated Dota site that runs no risk of confusing new visitors.
- Competition: Most of TL's competitors are dedicated sites. This ties in with the previous point in that a site covering many different games will be, in general, less attractive to a dedicated fan than a site covering your game specifically. The quality of content can be the same, or even slightly worse, on a dedicated site, and the fan that cares only about that single game is still more likely to go there, both for the sense of community and because it feels more natural to go to LiquidHearth than it does to go to LiquidSeveralGamesYouDontLikeAndHearthstone. The idea is that a dedicated site will offer more competition and attract more visitors than TL's Dota section did.
Also, I think it's fair to say that the Dota community as a whole views Teamliquid as "the Starcraft site that also does Dota" rather than "a Dota site like any other", and not without reason. Below is a quote by monk on the subject when Nazgul first brought up the idea of a separate Dota site.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2014 20:44 monk wrote:
The way I see TL Dota right now is the same way I view Gosugamers HS coverage. Besides LH, Gosugamers actually has the best HS articles on the web right now. However, even though you might read a HS article by them linked on reddit, it's very unlikely that you'll stay on their site. There's just way too many games covered there and everything is impossible to find, especially HS content. As a result, there's no HS community there and their forums are barren. The same problem seems to be happening for Dota 2 on TL. As far as I can tell or what I've heard is that we have some best articles on the web, but articles aren't what are going to draw users to stay on the site if everything is so difficult to find and there isn't a sense of shared community
Relating to that, I've noticed that Dota has way fewer, if any, cool ancillary features compared to what SC2 currently has on TL or what LH is planned to have. SC2 currently has TLPD, FPL, and Liquibet. LH is planned to have a Deck Builder, Arena Simulator, and Puzzle Maker. To the best of my knowledge, Dota has none of that. I don't know the particular reasons for that but if Dota had its own site, there'd at least be additional room to put these features.
Although the HS move to LH was a much more drastic change than the proposed Dota move, I already see a lot of cool things resulting from it. I see 1 post users posting all the time. There's also a ton of HS blogs where there weren't before (we average about 1 blog a day). We almost never had HS blogs on TL and looking over blogs now, I don't think I see a single Dota 2 blog.
Speaking from experience working on LH, I enjoy working on the site a lot more and there's just so many more opportunities to display content. For example, we have a featured video everyday. In addition, because we don't have to compete with another game, each article we put out can get a lot more time on the front page. All in all, I think a new TL Dota site is a great idea and it'll be great for both the Dota staff and the building of a Liquid Dota community.
- With LiquidHearth in mind:
On May 12 2014 07:59 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:20 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Was hoping mod/staff would be able to answer....
How successful would you guys rate the splitting of Hearthstone from teamliquid? It was successful. It definitely wouldn't have worked putting it on TL frontpage and having HS, StarCraft, Dota, etc on it. If you were to compare LH to the option of keeping it on TL, it's not really even close in terms of how it can grow. Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:37 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I mean it's hard to say if teamliquid has been making good decisions recently, as their viewership has dropped to around 50% of what it was a year ago (going off of "active", as well as the activity I've been seeing). The real question is whether this will continue that streak or change it. This can be a really big nail in the coffin for teamliquid if it doesn't work out. In terms of traffic, viewership across all StarCraft sites has declined since 2012. I don't think this has much to do with any decisions we're making, it's just a reality in the scene. Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. This is because you have a site with a calendar not tailored to the game, with StarCraft icons, etc. It's not a very welcoming place for a Dota fan. This move at minimum will give our Dota staff and community a chance to grow. Status quo simply wasn't cutting it.
- Front page oversaturation: The separation of Hearthstone and Teamliquid alleviated this somewhat, but with potentially three games on the front page for some fans, it was impossible for the content we churned out to receive the attention it deserves. On some days, the articles on the front page would all be replaced within 24 hours, thus decreasing the amount of views that the different writer groups create. TL as a site wants to create great coverage for several games, and on the whole that's something TL succeeds in doing, but when something like 6 or 7 articles all go up within the span of a day, the content suddenly becomes overwhelming. For a fan interested in more than one game, there's suddenly too much, and too little attention given to the people that put hours in to create that content.
On that note, though this is a minor issue, there is some overlap once The International starts, and that tournament drowns out everything else for the duration of it due to its incredible magnitude. Remember last year, when WCS' Regional finals all took place during TI3? Do you remember the amount of content put out pretty much every hour? I swear at least one of the editors had a heart attack as a result.
- The issue of separation: A lot of people seem to feel like Liquiddota shatters the TL community, and I suppose in a way that is true. But the consensus was, and this is how I feel as well, that simply breaking TL down further with more and more sub-forums and sub-communities within a larger whole does not significantly aid the creation of a "community". The people that hang out in General tend to hang out in General, while those who frequented Dota did so and little else. Of course, there are a select few veteran members that browsed most of the site, but they are in the minority. The creation of Liquiddota is an attempt to create a Dota community with minor ties to TL (Starcraft), not simply a relocation of the site's Dota fans to another URL.
The purpose of the new site is to build a community for Dota fans much like other significant Dota sites available, and create a community just like a community was built around Brood War when TL first launched in 2002. People will come to Liquiddota as Dota fans and to Teamliquid as Starcraft fans, and those who really care about both games have the option to utilize the features including shared PMs and the like and visit both sites. It will be inconvenient for some users, yes, but long-term, Liquiddota allows for much more growth than cramming several games into the same site ever did.
- The "family" factor: One issue that was brought up was the concern that the different communities will feel much more separate now than as a single site, thus losing some of the "Family"-feeling that was present during the site's earlier years. Especially for those veterans that frequented multiple sub-forums, I see how this may be a concern. But if you feel like this is an issue, keep in mind that TL is massive now compared to five-or-so years ago. That sense of a tight-knit community was already half-gone with just how large the site has become. It wasn't possible, even for those who spend four hours a day on TL like some of us do, to know everyone byname.
Quote on the subject below:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2014 06:26 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I think you may be overselling the "family" factor. This may have been true once in the old days of BW, but now TL has become too big to have that feeling across the site. For example, and don't take this the wrong way, but I have never seen your account until a couple of days ago and you're a staff user with 9k posts.
The point is that you're much likely to have that feeling of family with people who share your interests. This is why I'm against sharing the non-game specific forums across the sites. I think our main focus should be in attracting new users and building new sub-communities, and best way to achieve this is by letting community creates itself and not by us micromanaging it.
- On the subject of having shared General/Community sub-forums: It's been brought up earlier in this thread, and it was brought up in the staff forums as well. I think the response was generally positive, though there are technical quirks to work out before it can happen. I think it is going to happen eventually though, provided the technical issues can be solved.
To be fair, that is a good write of Zealously, I appreciate the effort, the reasoning makes sense I suppose, and I do see the perspective of website affiliates more clearly now.
The big thing for me is like you mentioned, the certain forums aren't included on the site. Once those are included when the kinks in programming that are resolved, I think I'll be neutral about the change, and see what will come from it. The Calendar looks good, but I'm curious to see what other new features will come from it to be able to put it at that benchmark for Dota communities.
Only time will tell, I personally don't think the LiquidHearth website was necessarily a success or failure, Dota 2 is a little bit different, so it may play out differently.
I really wish it was possible to somehow have the sites so integrated and customizable that I could add components from each site into the sidebar and into the website. That would be really cool and completely revolutionize the esport community and make you completely stand out from the rest of the sites on the web. Teamliquid, the esport website network... Seriously, think about it!
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Mixed feelings. I really only follow Dota and Starcraft, so it was very convenient as it was..
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On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb. Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible.
Please find me that quote we have had (minimal) advertisements since the first day this site existed in 2002. This is seriously some borderline posting.
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On May 12 2014 09:29 Ojahh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb. Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible. it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
I've been visiting this site for 7 years, so I understand man. To be fair though, this has been a starcraft site for a really long time before this, so you're still a part of the community, just if you like Dota, you go discuss it on a sister site. It's not that bad, but it's very easy to lose interest when you have to cycle through sites just so you have what you had before. What's going to likely happen to most is they will end up sticking to one website, and will drop the game they care about less... Which is shitty.
The way we had it now, this website can introduce you to some cool games and communities a lot easier than the way it is done now.
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If you don't wanna clutter the front page with articles and news etc I guess that's fine(but not really since if people think it's too much of a mess they can just filter it out). Removing the streams that show who is online from the main page is just really stupid. You won't make people visit LiquidDota this way, people will just go to twitch and click the Dota game to see who is on now.
Please listen to your userbase.
Poll: Your support for this change?Strongly Disagree (244) 64% Strongly Agree (53) 14% Disagree (52) 14% Neutral/Don't care (21) 5% Agree (13) 3% 383 total votes Your vote: Your support for this change? (Vote): Strongly Agree
(Vote): Agree
(Vote): Neutral/Don't care
(Vote): Disagree
(Vote): Strongly Disagree
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Really bad change. I don't browse HS and Dota2, but splitting the community is reallly dumb. I feel bad for people who browse both Dota and SC2. I hate switching between different website for my news.
At least merge some section, like Community and Other Games.
Buty imho this is really a terrible idea.
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LiquidDota is actually a really solid site. Like It's SOLID. Reverting is silly, what we need is to improve upon what people are complaining about, and that is the communication between TL and TLD. If the tech stuff gets figured out, the shared General community would be very good, and some ways to make the navigation between both sites easier. Like I should be able to set up links on my left bar in my option or something like that, that way it's less clunky and I can navigate easier. Stuff like that.
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On May 12 2014 09:41 DwD wrote:If you don't wanna clutter the front page with articles and news etc I guess that's fine(but not really since if people think it's too much of a mess they can just filter it out). Removing the streams that show who is online from the main page is just really stupid. You won't make people visit LiquidDota this way, people will just go to twitch and click the Dota game to see who is on now. Please listen to your userbase. Poll: Your support for this change?Strongly Disagree (244) 64% Strongly Agree (53) 14% Disagree (52) 14% Neutral/Don't care (21) 5% Agree (13) 3% 383 total votes Your vote: Your support for this change? (Vote): Strongly Agree
(Vote): Agree
(Vote): Neutral/Don't care
(Vote): Disagree
(Vote): Strongly Disagree
I am not gonna lie, if i get shared General and communities over on liquid dota i will probably switch my homepage to LD, although with a broken heart
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On May 12 2014 09:52 SpiZe wrote:
LiquidDota is actually a really solid site. Like It's SOLID. Reverting is silly, what we need is to improve upon what people are complaining about, and that is the communication between TL and TLD. If the tech stuff gets figured out, the shared General community would be very good, and some ways to make the navigation between both sites easier. Like I should be able to set up links on my left bar in my option or something like that, that way it's less clunky and I can navigate easier. Stuff like that.
Yeah, I think the best solution is to somehow link the community / other games / blogs sections on both sites.
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On May 12 2014 08:05 Zealously wrote:+ Show Spoiler +So, as promised, here is a summary of what the interested staff members had to say about the idea of moving Dota2 to its own site: - The issue of too much content: Yes, filters exist. But as a rule of thumb, I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of TL's visitors do not know of or do not use filters, and first-time visitors were very likely to feel overwhelmed by the abundance of content - with Dota and two Starcrafts, there was so much of it that it became periodically hard to navigate. It is true that filters may be the most comfortable solution for established members, but if you come to a new site you typically don't want to go through the trouble of finding a filter function before you start browsing through the stuff you're interested in. With Liquiddota, TL goes back to being a source of Starcraft news, and thus more 'welcoming' for Starcraft fans visiting the site for the first time, whereas Liquiddota becomes a dedicated Dota site that runs no risk of confusing new visitors.
- Competition: Most of TL's competitors are dedicated sites. This ties in with the previous point in that a site covering many different games will be, in general, less attractive to a dedicated fan than a site covering your game specifically. The quality of content can be the same, or even slightly worse, on a dedicated site, and the fan that cares only about that single game is still more likely to go there, both for the sense of community and because it feels more natural to go to LiquidHearth than it does to go to LiquidSeveralGamesYouDontLikeAndHearthstone. The idea is that a dedicated site will offer more competition and attract more visitors than TL's Dota section did.
Also, I think it's fair to say that the Dota community as a whole views Teamliquid as "the Starcraft site that also does Dota" rather than "a Dota site like any other", and not without reason. Below is a quote by monk on the subject when Nazgul first brought up the idea of a separate Dota site.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2014 20:44 monk wrote:
The way I see TL Dota right now is the same way I view Gosugamers HS coverage. Besides LH, Gosugamers actually has the best HS articles on the web right now. However, even though you might read a HS article by them linked on reddit, it's very unlikely that you'll stay on their site. There's just way too many games covered there and everything is impossible to find, especially HS content. As a result, there's no HS community there and their forums are barren. The same problem seems to be happening for Dota 2 on TL. As far as I can tell or what I've heard is that we have some best articles on the web, but articles aren't what are going to draw users to stay on the site if everything is so difficult to find and there isn't a sense of shared community
Relating to that, I've noticed that Dota has way fewer, if any, cool ancillary features compared to what SC2 currently has on TL or what LH is planned to have. SC2 currently has TLPD, FPL, and Liquibet. LH is planned to have a Deck Builder, Arena Simulator, and Puzzle Maker. To the best of my knowledge, Dota has none of that. I don't know the particular reasons for that but if Dota had its own site, there'd at least be additional room to put these features.
Although the HS move to LH was a much more drastic change than the proposed Dota move, I already see a lot of cool things resulting from it. I see 1 post users posting all the time. There's also a ton of HS blogs where there weren't before (we average about 1 blog a day). We almost never had HS blogs on TL and looking over blogs now, I don't think I see a single Dota 2 blog.
Speaking from experience working on LH, I enjoy working on the site a lot more and there's just so many more opportunities to display content. For example, we have a featured video everyday. In addition, because we don't have to compete with another game, each article we put out can get a lot more time on the front page. All in all, I think a new TL Dota site is a great idea and it'll be great for both the Dota staff and the building of a Liquid Dota community.
- With LiquidHearth in mind:
On May 12 2014 07:59 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:20 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Was hoping mod/staff would be able to answer....
How successful would you guys rate the splitting of Hearthstone from teamliquid? It was successful. It definitely wouldn't have worked putting it on TL frontpage and having HS, StarCraft, Dota, etc on it. If you were to compare LH to the option of keeping it on TL, it's not really even close in terms of how it can grow. Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:37 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I mean it's hard to say if teamliquid has been making good decisions recently, as their viewership has dropped to around 50% of what it was a year ago (going off of "active", as well as the activity I've been seeing). The real question is whether this will continue that streak or change it. This can be a really big nail in the coffin for teamliquid if it doesn't work out. In terms of traffic, viewership across all StarCraft sites has declined since 2012. I don't think this has much to do with any decisions we're making, it's just a reality in the scene. Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. This is because you have a site with a calendar not tailored to the game, with StarCraft icons, etc. It's not a very welcoming place for a Dota fan. This move at minimum will give our Dota staff and community a chance to grow. Status quo simply wasn't cutting it.
- Front page oversaturation: The separation of Hearthstone and Teamliquid alleviated this somewhat, but with potentially three games on the front page for some fans, it was impossible for the content we churned out to receive the attention it deserves. On some days, the articles on the front page would all be replaced within 24 hours, thus decreasing the amount of views that the different writer groups create. TL as a site wants to create great coverage for several games, and on the whole that's something TL succeeds in doing, but when something like 6 or 7 articles all go up within the span of a day, the content suddenly becomes overwhelming. For a fan interested in more than one game, there's suddenly too much, and too little attention given to the people that put hours in to create that content.
On that note, though this is a minor issue, there is some overlap once The International starts, and that tournament drowns out everything else for the duration of it due to its incredible magnitude. Remember last year, when WCS' Regional finals all took place during TI3? Do you remember the amount of content put out pretty much every hour? I swear at least one of the editors had a heart attack as a result.
- The issue of separation: A lot of people seem to feel like Liquiddota shatters the TL community, and I suppose in a way that is true. But the consensus was, and this is how I feel as well, that simply breaking TL down further with more and more sub-forums and sub-communities within a larger whole does not significantly aid the creation of a "community". The people that hang out in General tend to hang out in General, while those who frequented Dota did so and little else. Of course, there are a select few veteran members that browsed most of the site, but they are in the minority. The creation of Liquiddota is an attempt to create a Dota community with minor ties to TL (Starcraft), not simply a relocation of the site's Dota fans to another URL.
The purpose of the new site is to build a community for Dota fans much like other significant Dota sites available, and create a community just like a community was built around Brood War when TL first launched in 2002. People will come to Liquiddota as Dota fans and to Teamliquid as Starcraft fans, and those who really care about both games have the option to utilize the features including shared PMs and the like and visit both sites. It will be inconvenient for some users, yes, but long-term, Liquiddota allows for much more growth than cramming several games into the same site ever did.
- The "family" factor: One issue that was brought up was the concern that the different communities will feel much more separate now than as a single site, thus losing some of the "Family"-feeling that was present during the site's earlier years. Especially for those veterans that frequented multiple sub-forums, I see how this may be a concern. But if you feel like this is an issue, keep in mind that TL is massive now compared to five-or-so years ago. That sense of a tight-knit community was already half-gone with just how large the site has become. It wasn't possible, even for those who spend four hours a day on TL like some of us do, to know everyone byname.
Quote on the subject below:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2014 06:26 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I think you may be overselling the "family" factor. This may have been true once in the old days of BW, but now TL has become too big to have that feeling across the site. For example, and don't take this the wrong way, but I have never seen your account until a couple of days ago and you're a staff user with 9k posts.
The point is that you're much likely to have that feeling of family with people who share your interests. This is why I'm against sharing the non-game specific forums across the sites. I think our main focus should be in attracting new users and building new sub-communities, and best way to achieve this is by letting community creates itself and not by us micromanaging it.
- On the subject of having shared General/Community sub-forums: It's been brought up earlier in this thread, and it was brought up in the staff forums as well. I think the response was generally positive, though there are technical quirks to work out before it can happen. I think it is going to happen eventually though, provided the technical issues can be solved.
Hopefully that explains a few things.
I would like to address a few things.
Regards competitor sites. Yes there are many dedicated sites out there, and several are older than TL Dota's coverage. However, I feel like you guys approached this the wrong way, by trying to be like them. Imho, you can't, they have a larger staff with actual salary and all, and they have been here much longer. Trying to be like them is not gonna work. I thought we should have instead go a different route, and that to embrace what TL is about. An outlet of esports where you can easily have access to everything at once with just a few clicks, on top of that a sense of community, with blogs, general discussion, sports, where everyone, not just d2, sc and hs fan only can related.
I feel this is very much related to the issue of too much content. I see your point, but imo there's a bright side of it. What keeping them at LiquidDota when there are literally several carbon copies ( over-exaggerated ) of it out there. I could recall my story when I first joined TL. Came for BW, stayed because everything else. After reading quality BW article, the lively discussion at general caught my eyes, the sports section where I can follow many sports at once ( since I often follow Premiere League, F1, NBA, Champion League, Tennis and most of other things ), a hilarious blog section where I can related to. Those thing made me keep getting back, and finally bookmark TL as my homepage.
Yes time have changed, I totally understand the "family" is becoming lesser and lesser in your 2nd last paragraph. However, it does no good to accelerate and push the family apart even more. Evidently , in this thread, many have stated that they would not visit main TL page or TL Dota page page again, not because they don't like to, but because jumping to many portal proves too much. In the decade where time is more valuable than ever, having sth like TL home page is very gold, since we can get everything, so useful, so convenient. Like someone said, it's "The site to go to when I'm bored". I'm afraid I can't say that in the future if we continue where like we're doing now.
For the issue of separation, I think it's overblown, but that is entirely my opinion and I could easily be wrong, since you guys have the user data base and not me. However, a lot of people I know on TL are playing, visiting, or at least show interested to 2 or more games at once. Each time I come into a thread in a sub-forum I see half of the posters are also playing sth else. In today context, I believe hardcore gamers are very rare (hc is not exactly the words for this, since I'm pointing towards those who's only stick with only 1 game in a very very long time ). People got burned out for awhile, and look for other things. They found their new go to games, but still go back for the original quite often. I found myself jumping back and forth between dota, BW and POE. I mainly play POE now, but I still read dota and BW forum all the time, though I don't really post a lot. The same can be said for a lot of users here, and maybe non-register users as well, but I guess we're the minority now.
Overall I feel quite sadden by this, and I don't support this direction we're heading. However, it's not my site. And as Hotbid's post, if Dota section hasnt been a satisfaction, then need to try something difference from the status quo, perfectly logically from a business point of view. It's just not the same for me when everything is about growth.
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how do we get to the community forums from liquiddota?
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On May 12 2014 10:01 eX Killy wrote:
how do we get to the community forums from liquiddota?
u open up another tab, and come back to teamliquid.
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Let me put it this way, if not for seeing dota2 streams on the sidebar I wouldn't have started watching dota2 recently.
The aggregated stream list is the BEST, MOST POPULAR feature on the site, its the only thing many people care about.
Even now, before this move, being listed or not on TL could make a big difference to some streamers. You are actually lowering the relivancey and service TL is providing to your users with this.
I am literally now going to just bookmark BTS because I don't want to have to check multiple sites for a stream list: Lists of things are inherently more useful when they provide their info concisely.
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I resonate with what Evo said and just in the general consensus, the only feeling is a sense of being excluded from the community. In laymen's terms..... + Show Spoiler +
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Question regarding TL+ and the other websites:
Does it carry over to the other sites or don't they support TL+ yet / do you have to pay for each site?
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Cool I guess, but I look less at hearthstone forums when they moved to their own site... it will be the same for dota 2 I'm sure.
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I am glad that teamliquid.net is a pure Starcraft site again.
The new liquiddota banner looks ausum.
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EPT
