Political party Social Democratic Party
(Before 2001)
Solidarity (2001–2006)
Our Ukraine (2006–2012)
Party of Regions (2011–2012)
Independent (2012–present)
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
March 05 2014 14:34 GMT
#4201
Political party Social Democratic Party (Before 2001) Solidarity (2001–2006) Our Ukraine (2006–2012) Party of Regions (2011–2012) Independent (2012–present) | ||
sgtnoobkilla
Australia249 Posts
March 05 2014 14:43 GMT
#4202
Photos of Russian hardware in Crimea nothing but provocation – Russia's Defense Minister Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu has dismissed as nothing but a provocation the alleged photos and videos in mass media of Russian military hardware in Crimea. "Of course, it’s a provocation," Shoigu told reporters on Wednesday. "Pure rubbish," he said, commenting on the allegations. Source Shoigu, Lavrov Deny that Crimean Forces are Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu on Wednesday denied that Russian forces are currently deployed in Ukraine's Crimea region and said that video footage showing Russian license plates on the military vehicles was "complete nonsense." ..... Shoigu responded to journalists' questions Wednesday by saying that he did not know how the unidentified forces came to possess the Lynx and Tiger armored cars that are used by the Russian military. His comments came the same day that Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that Russia could not order the so-called self-defense forces back to base because they were not Russian and added that his country's Navy personnel in Ukraine were at their normal positions. ..... Source It's pretty damn hilarious that they're actually using this as an excuse for the presence of all these Russian troops... I guess by following their logic, the next time you see troops wearing ACUPAT with M16s, being transported around in U.S. Army-standard HMMWVs and Strykers and talking in American English with their shoulder patches removed, don't assume that their identities are American of origin, because hey, it's all just fake provocation amirite? | ||
HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
March 05 2014 14:59 GMT
#4203
On March 05 2014 23:34 darkness wrote: That Poroshenko guy has been part of way too many parties. I don't know why people trust someone who switches parties left and right: Political party Social Democratic Party (Before 2001) Solidarity (2001–2006) Our Ukraine (2006–2012) Party of Regions (2011–2012) Independent (2012–present) You mean someone who has their own ideas and wants to get things done? There's nothing inherently bad about switiching parties, as long as you don't backstab voters while you do it. | ||
Sent.
Poland9051 Posts
March 05 2014 15:03 GMT
#4204
On March 05 2014 23:34 darkness wrote: That Poroshenko guy has been part of way too many parties. I don't know why people trust someone who switches parties left and right: Political party Social Democratic Party (Before 2001) Solidarity (2001–2006) Our Ukraine (2006–2012) Party of Regions (2011–2012) Independent (2012–present) Switching parties is normal in ex communist countries because political scenes there aren't as stable and developed as those in the western countries. I'm not saying it's a good thing but in my opinion it's not enough to discredit an Eastern European politician. | ||
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
March 05 2014 15:12 GMT
#4205
On March 06 2014 00:03 Sent. wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2014 23:34 darkness wrote: That Poroshenko guy has been part of way too many parties. I don't know why people trust someone who switches parties left and right: Political party Social Democratic Party (Before 2001) Solidarity (2001–2006) Our Ukraine (2006–2012) Party of Regions (2011–2012) Independent (2012–present) Switching parties is normal in ex communist countries because political scenes there aren't as stable and developed as those in the western countries. I'm not saying it's a good thing but in my opinion it's not enough to discredit an Eastern European politician. Unfortunately that's true. | ||
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
March 05 2014 15:31 GMT
#4206
+ Show Spoiler [Bloomberg article on the cost of the c…] + President Vladimir Putin’s brinkmanship in Ukraine has already cost some of his closest comrades billions of dollars. The other 144 million Russians may also pay a price. Putin’s troop buildup in Crimea triggered the biggest stock selloff in five years on March 3. It also pulled the ruble to a record low, prompting the central bank to raise interest rates the most since 1998, when a cash-strapped government stumbled toward default. Longtime Putin ally Gennady Timchenko and his partner Leonid Mikhelson lost a combined $3.2 billion of their wealth after their gas producer OAO Novatek (NVTK) tumbled 18 percent. “Russia will be the big loser of the crisis in Ukraine,” said Timothy Ash, chief emerging-market economist at Standard Bank Group Ltd. in London. “There’ll be a big hit to domestic and foreign confidence, less investment and likely increased outflows, likely losses for Russian banks with exposure in Ukraine, a weaker ruble and weaker growth and recovery.” Russia needs a new, more diversified economic model to secure future expansion, Antonio Spilimbergo, the International Monetary Fund’s mission chief in Moscow, said in a report last month. The $2 trillion economy decelerated for a fourth year in 2013 as consumer spending weakened and investment sagged along with demand for energy. Growth slowed to 1.3 percent last year, the least since a 2009 recession, from 3.4 percent in 2012. Putin is seeking to regain influence over Ukraine after the overthrow of Kremlin-backed President Viktor Yanukovych, who was deposed by lawmakers on Feb. 22 after clashes with protesters in Kiev left at least 95 people dead. Ignoring warnings from the U.S. and the European Union, Putin has since sent thousands of troops to augment the 15,000 already in Crimea, where Russia has stationed the Black Sea Fleet since its founding by Catherine the Great in 1783. The crisis has helped fuel the ruble’s 9 percent slide this year against the dollar, the most among 24 emerging-market currencies tracked by Bloomberg after Argentina’s peso. The Russian currency weakened 1.8 percent against the dollar March 3 even after the central bank unexpectedly raised its key interest rate by 150 basis points and spent as much as $12 billion defending the currency, according to ING Groep NV. (INGA) The Micex Index (INDEXCF) sank as much as 13 percent. Foreign Funding Putin’s gambit is already threatening to derail $8 billion of international loans sought by at least 10 Russian companies including billionaire Mikhail Fridman’s VimpelCom Ltd., according to data compiled by Bloomberg. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry threatened to kick Russia out of the Group of Eight and impose asset freezes and travel bans on Kremlin officials. That may force bankers to re-evaluate potential deals, according to UralSib Capital in Moscow. The Micex Index fell 0.3 percent, with Novatek rising 0.3 percent as of 4:42 p.m. in Moscow. The benchmark surged 5.3 percent yesterday after Putin said he doesn’t have plans to annex Crimea. The ruble gained 0.2 percent today, rebounding for a second day. Even so, the damage inflicted on investor sentiment will be felt for months if not longer, said Lilit Gevorgyan, senior economist at IHS Global Insight (INSDHYS) in London. Capital Flight The capital flight echoes the aftermath of Putin’s last military foray into a fellow former Soviet republic, Georgia, in 2008. In the six months following the five-day war, investors pulled at least $290 billion out of the country, according to BNP Paribas SA (BNP) estimates. That war, over two Russia-backed breakaway regions, helped wipe $230 billion off the combined wealth of Russia’s 25 richest men over a five-month period, according to Bloomberg calculations. Even before the protests in Kiev turned deadly last month, Deputy Economy Minister Andrei Klepach said capital outflows were increasing and may reach $35 billion in the first quarter, more than half of the $63 billion for all of 2013. The military threat in Crimea can be added to the list of reasons behind the capital exodus, which includes corruption, red tape and a feeble legal system, Ash of Standard Bank said. Russia is the world’s most corrupt major economy, ranking alongside Pakistan and Nicaragua at 127th of 176 nations in the annual Corruption Perceptions Index compiled by Transparency International, a Berlin-based watchdog. ‘Biggest Humiliation’ “The loss of face that’s been suffered in the past week or so is arguably the biggest humiliation that Putin has faced and Russia is not used to losing these battles on its doorstep,” Neil Shearing, chief emerging-markets economist at Capital Economics Ltd., said by phone from London. “Even though the events in Ukraine are shaped by politics rather than economics, there’s potential for economic fallout for Russia.” In November, when Putin scuttled Ukraine’s planned free trade deal with the EU by offering Yanukovych $15 billion of aid and cheaper gas, he said Russian banks had $28 billion of loans and assets in the country. Souring loans may “materially affect the solvency” of Russian banks with “significant” assets in Ukraine, Fitch Ratings said Feb. 25, adding that state-owned lenders can count on government funding if needed. The banks with the biggest exposure are Vnesheconombank, the development bank known as VEB, with 74 percent of its capital, Gazprombank with about 40 percent and VTB Group with 14 percent, according to Fitch. Vital Pipelines Russian companies also have investments in Ukraine’s energy, defense and agricultural industries. The country is Russia’s fifth-largest trading partner, with turnover of $39.6 billion last year, according to data from the Federal Customs Service in Moscow. Exports to Ukraine were $23.8 billion, while imports totaled $15.8 billion. More vital to Putin is Ukraine’s network of pipelines, through which state-run OAO Gazprom (OGZD) sends more than half of its exports to Europe, where it has a quarter of the market. Even so, Putin is prepared to do whatever it takes to stop Ukraine from aligning with the West, said Michael Ganske, head of emerging markets at Rogge Global Partners Plc in London. Putin considers Ukraine and its 45 million people key to his goal of building a trading bloc to rival the EU, according to Ganske. His customs union, which Yanukovych planned closer ties with, is currently comprised of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan, though Armenia has also agreed to join. “Putin cares for the economy, but he cares more for the greatness of Russia and regional influence,” Ganske said. “As a former spy, Putin has this grand-Russia idea in his head and he just doesn’t accept that Russia’s importance in the geopolitical context has decreased. Putin doesn’t like the idea of Ukraine moving further away from Russia and becoming part of the EU at some stage, let alone NATO.” Source. Olga Bogomolets said she had not told Mr Paet that policemen and protestors had been killed in the same manner. "Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people," she told The Telegraph. "I have no access to those people." But she said she had asked for a full forensic criminal investigation into the deaths that occurred in the Maidan. "No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons. I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything. "I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms. "Our nation has to ask the question who were the killers, who asked them to come to Ukraine. We need good answers on the basis of expertise." Mr Paet's assertion that an opposition figure was behind the Maidan massacre was not one she could share. "I think you can only say something like this on the basis of fact," she said. "Its not correct and its not good to do this. It should be based on fact." She said the new government in Kiev had assured her a criminal investigation had begun but that she had not direct contact with it so far. "They told me they have begun a criminal process and if they say that I believe them. The police have not given me any information on it." | ||
hunts
United States2113 Posts
March 05 2014 16:17 GMT
#4207
On March 05 2014 22:09 Queen of Blades wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2014 21:53 R1CH wrote: For consideration, this video was posted by what appears to be a Russian based spam bot. Thanks Admin... It's pretty realistic to believe that nation-states and political groups are willing to pay for propaganda pushing, China's "50 Cent Party" is one example that comes to mind. Forumspam as propaganda is very likely to happen, it seems just along the same lines as China's fake blogs... The internet is as much a battleground for the FSB (Putin's alma mater, the KGB's new name) as the streets Don't believe anything isn't staged/fabricated if you don't know you can trust that it came from a real source, basically.. It's sad that people have to be told this, but yeah. So maybe putin really did hire zeo like some people in this thread have been speculating. Thanks for linking the bloomberg article above, was a very interesting read. I guess the political game is just going to be "sure have crimea, we won't intervene, but it will cost you a lot of money" | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
March 05 2014 16:18 GMT
#4208
I'd be willing to make some money though. Where do I sign up? | ||
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
March 05 2014 16:57 GMT
#4209
On March 05 2014 22:04 zatic wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2014 21:53 R1CH wrote: For consideration, this video was posted by what appears to be a Russian based spam bot. I am sure it has, it seems authentic enough. In the end it doesn't really tell that much. That the Maidan people don't trust the old regime people around Timoshenko is nothing new. The part about the snipers really doesn't say anything except that it is still unclear who shot who. Ok I have a question. When the shootings started Yanukovich was contacted by his numerous allies and they were begging him to do something. There are numerous reports about this. He was pretty calm and refused to do anything. Why would he, when "clearly" somebody was mass-killing civilians to blame it on him? | ||
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
March 05 2014 17:13 GMT
#4210
On March 06 2014 01:57 Cheerio wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2014 22:04 zatic wrote: On March 05 2014 21:53 R1CH wrote: For consideration, this video was posted by what appears to be a Russian based spam bot. I am sure it has, it seems authentic enough. In the end it doesn't really tell that much. That the Maidan people don't trust the old regime people around Timoshenko is nothing new. The part about the snipers really doesn't say anything except that it is still unclear who shot who. Ok I have a question. When the shootings started Yanukovich was contacted by his numerous allies and they were begging him to do something. There are numerous reports about this. He was pretty calm and refused to do anything. Why would he when "clearly" somebody was mass-killing civilians to blame it on him? What do you mean? Do you mean: Why would he NOT, when "clearly" somebody was mass-killing civilians, | ||
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
March 05 2014 17:25 GMT
#4211
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
March 05 2014 17:44 GMT
#4212
On March 06 2014 01:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I don't think he got his money's worth. I'd be willing to make some money though. Where do I sign up? Thats the problem with the Russian Federation, its so corrupt that efficient employees arent hired to their right jobs. | ||
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
March 05 2014 17:51 GMT
#4213
On March 05 2014 19:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Show nested quote + On March 05 2014 16:00 Sub40APM wrote: On March 05 2014 15:36 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: On March 05 2014 14:37 Sub40APM wrote: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/the-hidden-costs-of-a-russian-statelet-in-ukraine/284197/ Georgia's breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which won de facto independence with the aid of Russian troops after a brief 2008 war, are black holes for Russian tax dollars. In April, the International Crisis Group (ICG) reported that Moscow had earmarked $350 million for infrastructure projects in Abkhazia between 2010 and 2012, with that number expected to triple to $1 billion between 2013 and 2015, but that only half of the $350 million had been spent because of mismanagement and corruption. The group noted that Abkhazia—which is located just miles from Sochi, the site of this year’s Winter Olympics—effectively depended on Moscow for a staggering 70 percent of its budget and also received roughly $70 million in pension payments for Abkhaz residents, many of whom have Russian passports. “Abkhazia’s economy is like a drug addict on Russian help,” the report quoted an opposition figure in the region as saying. “We want real help to support our economic development, not ‘facade’ assistance. These figures may seem like drops in the bucket for a Russian government that just poured $51 billion into the Olympics and plans to spend $440 billion in 2014, but the geopolitical philanthropy Moscow offers to these breakaway regions is a serious drain on Russia’s struggling, oil-and-gas-dependent economy. If Crimea becomes another territory under de facto Russian control, Moscow would likely be forced to pick up the tab yet again. And keep in mind: The peninsula has 2 million inhabitants, which makes it 40 times the size of South Ossetia, eight times the size of Abkhazia, and four times the size of Transnistria. That adds up to a lot of pension payment for Crimea’s residents, 20 percent of whom are over the age of 60. Faced with these dim economic prospects, Crimea could turn to illicit activities to generate state income. Breakaway regions have a reputation for cultivating smuggling and black markets—whether because they have few revenue streams, because local authorities are busy enriching themselves, or because they are not integrated into the international legal system. In a 2011 investigation of smuggling in Transnistria, for instance, the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations reported that between 2005 and 2011, authorities along the Moldovan-Ukrainian border carried out 10 interdictions of radioactive materials and interrupted 587 illicit weapons shipments. On top of it all, according to Hill, the seizure of Crimea may ultimately cost Russia more influence in Ukraine than it gains. “Having worked with Russian officials, I can tell you they don’t understand social movements,” he told me. “They perceive everything as orchestrated from the top. They don’t understand that they’re risking long-term hostility from across Ukraine.” This article conveniently ignores the fact that Crimea is infinitely less corrupt and infinitely more profitable than Abkhazia and South Ossetia. haha If what the article suggests were remotely true, the Russians wouldn't bother. A & SO are welfare missions more than anything else. Crimea would be a huge profit and I don't see in what world it would instantly transform to A & SO status. More profit? Why? The article mentions Crimea's billion dollar deficit, the fact that 20% of the citizen are retirees, and that 60% of its trade goes with non-Russian economy, which presumably will get embargoed the way the other 3 non states in the article are... as for less corrupt? where does that come from? Only a billion dollar deficit? We are constantly in deficit. It's led to our $17.4 trillion debt ftw! Everyone seems to have a deficit lol. Russia is typically very good with budgets and they had $9 billion deficit last year lol. I don't know what the point is of mentioning a budget deficit. Everyone has that hehe. Huh? The point of mentioning it is that the Russian treasury will now have to fill it Corrupt? Crimea isn't today's Iraq. 90% of the money doesn't magically vanish. It's a significantly different situation than A & SO, too, which is why I found the article to be weird that it drew exact parallels. How do you know? If Crimea was hugely self-destructive as implied, Russia wouldn't bother with it. Right. Russia only acts rationally which is why its pumping billions into keeping Belorus frozen in time. Yeah, if you want to severely raise tensions with Russia, which isn't something the US nor its kids in Europe want to do. Our eating up the former Soviet bloc since 1991 to try to diminish any influence and power Russia has and to corner Russia is dickish enough as is. As xMZ posted, a cornered animal will strike back sooner or later. This Bear got pissed off too much while trying to chill in his cave. :S So, what we have is a power struggle of the USA with post-1990s Russia trying to maintain a balance of power in Europe instead one country dominating everything in the world like the US in the 90s. The tensions are already high, all the non-states are still cut off from the world economy except by the way of Russia. | ||
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
March 05 2014 18:00 GMT
#4214
UN envoy blockaded inside Crimea shop The UN special envoy to Ukraine, Robert Serry, was blockaded inside a coffee shop in Crimea by a militia, according to ITV Europe editor James Mates, who is in the shop with Serry. UN special envoy Robert Serry with me in coffee shop. Outside local militia block the door. #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/pbotNqCG3i — James Mates (@jamesmatesitv) March 5, 2014 Mates is narrating the standoff. “With Robert Serry now,” he writes: not kidnapped, but held in a coffee shop. Some men outside prevent him from leaving. Special rep is waiting in coffee shop for help. He’s asked us to stay with him and keep filming #Ukriane UN special advisor Robert Serry had been visiting navy commander when his car was blocked. Stand off followed #Ukraine He refused to go with men blocking car, got out and walked until he found coffee shop. He's asked ITV News team to stay with him. #Ukraine — James Mates (@jamesmatesitv) March 5, 2014 UN special envoy Robert Serry’s assistant says she saw at least one man with a gun among group who blocked his car. #Ukraine Outside coffee shop are men in combat fatigues blocking the door. Some wear pro Russia black and gold arm band. Not allowing anyone in/out Robert Serry has now agreed to go straight to the airport and end his mission in #Crimea — James Mates (@jamesmatesitv) March 5, 2014 This is reaching tragicomic levels. | ||
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
March 05 2014 18:13 GMT
#4215
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26447682 "Snickers?" asks a soldier. "You shouldn't eat that American food. Bad for your health." "You can have it if you want," I say. "No, no. We don't eat American food," says the soldier with the grenade-launcher, smiling contentedly. We carry on emptying the rucksack - and reach the first aid kit. "American kit!" says the man with the grenade-launcher. Instantly the soldiers raise their rifles again. "Judging by your physique, you are both British spies!" says another soldier rapidly. literally a different information universe. | ||
Gorsameth
Netherlands21116 Posts
March 05 2014 18:16 GMT
#4216
On March 06 2014 03:00 Sub40APM wrote: Show nested quote + UN envoy blockaded inside Crimea shop The UN special envoy to Ukraine, Robert Serry, was blockaded inside a coffee shop in Crimea by a militia, according to ITV Europe editor James Mates, who is in the shop with Serry. UN special envoy Robert Serry with me in coffee shop. Outside local militia block the door. #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/pbotNqCG3i — James Mates (@jamesmatesitv) March 5, 2014 Mates is narrating the standoff. “With Robert Serry now,” he writes: not kidnapped, but held in a coffee shop. Some men outside prevent him from leaving. Special rep is waiting in coffee shop for help. He’s asked us to stay with him and keep filming #Ukriane UN special advisor Robert Serry had been visiting navy commander when his car was blocked. Stand off followed #Ukraine He refused to go with men blocking car, got out and walked until he found coffee shop. He's asked ITV News team to stay with him. #Ukraine — James Mates (@jamesmatesitv) March 5, 2014 UN special envoy Robert Serry’s assistant says she saw at least one man with a gun among group who blocked his car. #Ukraine Outside coffee shop are men in combat fatigues blocking the door. Some wear pro Russia black and gold arm band. Not allowing anyone in/out Robert Serry has now agreed to go straight to the airport and end his mission in #Crimea — James Mates (@jamesmatesitv) March 5, 2014 This is reaching tragicomic levels. Yes, threatening the UN envoy is sure to get Russia to to be left alone in Crimea lol | ||
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
March 05 2014 18:25 GMT
#4217
Shaun Walker called me from Sevastopol, where he is beside the Slavutych, one of the Ukrainian naval ships that is being blocked from leaving the port. He told me: I can see about 50 Ukrainian naval officers on the boat and there are these Russians who are patrolling the dock around us. One of them just came up to us and asked us if we had the right to be here, if we had a piece of paper to prove that. We asked him if had had a piece of paper to give him the right to be here and he’s gone off to get his superior ... I heard one of the guys talking to the locals and he was saying that they are here because if things kick off here then Russia will get a whole load of refugees supposedly from Ukraine....this guy said ‘you will be coming to us’. When I started talking to him he suddenly stopped talking about ‘us’ as Russia. just comic level stuff. SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS! no YOU show me YOUR papers! | ||
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
March 05 2014 18:26 GMT
#4218
That author forgot to consider that Russian investments would nosedive. | ||
Ramong
Denmark1706 Posts
March 05 2014 18:34 GMT
#4219
They fear that sanctions against Putin will escalate things and thereby increasing chances for full out war between Ukraine and Russia. It is as simple as that | ||
Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
March 05 2014 18:45 GMT
#4220
On March 06 2014 03:26 ticklishmusic wrote: Lol, wasn't there an article floating around why the EU wouldn't act because Russian money was in their banks? That author forgot to consider that Russian investments would nosedive. Russia has already threatened not to pay off US debts, so whats wrong with freezing those investments or even confiscating those if Russia misbihaves? | ||
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