EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VxugI8K.png)
Protoss vs. Zerg is a really complicated match up. I recently tried to find somewhat useful guides to add to Liquipedia, or at least update the existing ones. Needless to say, somebody forgot to add anything happening after 2009. So much for a modern portal. That is bad, then again, since the match up is so versatile, it's not too surprising. What really baffled me was that there was some sort of article, trying to explain how to counter Zerg openings from two Hatcheries. My initial thought was: why two Hatch? There's a world full of hurt waiting for beginners and the author tried to focus on... two Hatches?
To skip a few more thoughts which involved nailing the next best Zerg user verbally to a tree after going though all the quick defeats my beloved race had to suffer, I thought I should probably add more responses to the scheme.
This guide hopefully describes the most aggressive shit you have to face if you want to learn Protoss vs. Zerg. Regardless of your opening, you will always have to react to a lot of downright insulting Builds if you dare to play in an anonymous ladder - ICCup, FISH, the G-Server, VS-Platform, Battle.net. It's important, so read this.
Definitions
First off, there is a major difference in between a cheese and an all-in. Both terms describe the same thing: your opponent opens with a difficult opening, which forces you to react in one way or the other, if you don't you choose to die.
An all-in refers to a strategy which sacrifices economical advantage in favour of a larger army. Usually, the Zerg will commit strongly, builds up a mass of seemingly inferior and weak units which will then try to eat your face. If you don't scout it, you'll be done, meet your maker and are a very late Protoss. However, if you defend well, Zerg will have little to no chances to build up an economy, or phrased differently, has any option to transition into an ordinary post-attack build.
A cheese is a bit different. In other match ups cheese means you build a exotic unit combination, you would normally not chose to command. A Terran going for Wraith instead of Marines&Medics would be a prime example. Now, since most Zerg units in the early and mid game are used either way, the term cheese usually means a quite out-of-the-box timing. Imagine slow drops of Lurkers. In contrast to all-ins, a cheese does not neccesarily need to kill the opponent, it rather forces him to react in a way the Zerg gains an economical advantage, which will hopefully put him in a great position. Therefore Protoss does not only need to adopt, but follow sometimes difficult schemes. Fortunately, Zerg can't do a lot of cheese in this match up.
General Rules
Regardless of opening, map and other factors, there are a few things a player can do to be safe against cheese. This is very basic stuff, but it's not described elsewhere. Internalize them, they're a huge bonus. You can't run before you walk.
Mentality
The second you face an all-in or a cheese you'll be in panic mode. Panic itself is defined differently from being scared. Being scared allows you to perform any actions, while panic is an overwhelming sensation. Read carefully, this can be extrapolated for real life.
You start shaking, adrenaline builds up and you go into Heisenberg mode or coma. Meaning, you either spam clicks so fast, you're not knowing where you are or you're not sure if you're fast enough. You're very uncertain. That is very bad.
To get out off a panic mode, you need a stronger emotion. Some sort of trigger. Being defeated sucks, even more so if you feel you fell victim to an imbalanced race. Embrace that feeling, be more angry. Once you're angry your thoughts clear up and you can plan again. Reach that infamous place where you're so angry about life, the universe and Swiss banks, that you're calm again.
Obviously other emotions work just fine. You can programm yourself to be in a happy place, imagine you hug a tree or whatever, but hate just comes natural for a German Protoss on ICCup trying to learn the game. Just my two cents.
The point is, there is no need to panic or to be scared. Every single all-in has its counter. If you know what to do next, you can completely focus on what you are doing.
A second point related to stress is that Protoss often is under the impression to be the important race whenever an all-in is done. This is completely wrong. Zerg is not Schroedinger's cat. It doesn't sit there, waiting for you to open the box, so it can die or so you can inhale the deadly gas.
The opposite is true, Zerg has to do the pressure, HE is all-in. Naturally, you are forced into this situation, but the odds are generally on your side. You have a small room to screw up, Zerg has not. If you screw up a little, he still dies, only a few minutes later than in an ideal scenario. If you screw up somewhat bigger, you both come out even in an awkward low economy game. You need to screw up big times in relation to Zerg to really lose.
Be honest to yourself, everytime you lost it was because you screwed up, either because you weren't sure what to do next, or because you were shivering. That can be ended.
Well, more though. If you do not panic and if you do a good defense, you're returning the favour. Zerg will be stressed out. And he'll have to deal with the same shit you just went through. Karma.
Scouting
Scouting is key. The sooner you have information, the better. If you have to guess what comes next, your reactions are limited. It can be so bad, that you prepare for massive attacks, only to find out four minutes later Zerg fooled you and went for a rather standard macro opening, putting you with the back against the wall. You don't want that to happen.
Instead, send out a Probe at eight supply and scout. It might happen that you scout Zerg on the last position and are too late. That's bad luck, but it happens in only vey few scenarios. Sometimes lady luck is just against you. Karma's a bitch.
However, if you, for one reason or the other, are not sure what Zerg plans and you know your Probe is about to die, send a second one. Hide it in the middle of the map or on a different spot. Send it towards Zerg the second Zerglings reach your Natural Expansion, this way he has to run back again. This is always very helpful. There is no excuse to not know what's going on. No excuse. No. Excuse.
Sacrificing a second Probe is always okay. There's no scenario in which you need Probes so badly, that you can't spare one, unless you yourself open with an All-in - which isn't covered in this article and which is something no beginner should do either way. Learn the right game first, do bullshit later.
Buliding Placement
The majority of this article will describe what happens after a Forge Fast Expand. However, there are rare scenarios in which you opened with a one base strategy, usually going Gateway first. Regardless, there's one big thing you have to keep in mind: You need your Pylons.
If you open with a One Base, you might need to add Photon Cannons within few seconds. These cannons will have to cover your choke point, usually a ramp. If there is no Pylon already, it's very bad news. This delays your reaction or forces you to spend additional 100 Minerals while stopping to train Probes or all of the aforementioned things. Hence, try to plan your base design, so you can deal with a worst case scenario.
It is even more important to positions your initial Pylon, Gateway, Forge and Photon Cannons well if you're going for a Forge Expand. This is an art. I never really bothered with the Feng Shui stuff that goes with it, I have no idea which Cannon goes best with the Mineral Lines, but I also lost a lot to <insert units here> Busts. Do not repeat my mistakes, learn from the beginning.
A beginner should only train on a few maps, most likely Fighting Spirit and related maps. If you play on ICCup, pick Fighting Spirit and one (or a maximum of two) of the Maps of the Week. Then go to this page:
Protoss Fast Expand Forge WallingLearn these by heart. Do it. It's very important. You'll see why later on.
Larvae
This point can be discussed in full lenght, but it shouldn't. The first general advice said Zerg is under a lot of pressure. This is true. In most cases, Zerg will spend his larvae on attacking units and Overlords instead of Drones. Why is this important?
You can produce Probes and Zealots from two different buildings, which doesn't require you to make difficult trade offs. Most times you will have a mineral overflow compared to Zerg, so you can use it freely.
Keep this in mind, eve if Zerg deals damage, it needs - in most cases - to be really hurtful to you, before you are in a serious disadvantage. Losing half of your economy isn't a big deal if your Natural Expansion still run, whereas Zerg has no more army and only eight Drones mining. He can now give you time to build an army, or build an army and stay poor forever. Bad for Zerg. Good for you.
9 Pool Speedling
There's another general rule, which holds true for most games. If you scout a 9 Pool Speed, you should be paranoid. Paranoid people survive, people saying "well, it won't be so bad" don't. That's evolution for you.
A 9 Pool Speed build looks like this:
- Zerg economy is low
- 6 Lings are out in no time
- There's an extractor with 3 drones mining gas
- If scouted early, there are only 6 Drones mining
- If Drones still mine gas after the first lings are out, you should have this ! in your head
The thing about 9 Pool Speedlings against any kind of build is, that it automatically puts Zerg into a position, where he sacrificed Drones for minerals. It doesn't really mean he must use a cheese or an all-in, but the chances are high he will. He will automatically be behind economically for the next few minutes, so you can safely add cannons first and prepare for a Zergling runby. He will have traded his economical disadvantage in favour of the fastest units in the match up. (this is a bold statements, but they're always too fast for your taste, so use it as a figure of speech if you want)
The thing is, if Zerg does not attempt a Zergling runby or uses an All-in follow up, it's always a bit awkward for Protoss. Especially beginners simply forget to stop gas mining, which is basically the tell-tell for Protoss to expect an all-in. That means Zerg is just stupid. It's not hard to win vs stupid.
Playing Safe without Information
Let's face it, in many cases a beginner loses his first Probe and manages to forget to sneak out a second one in time. By the time his Corsair sees the Natural Base of Zerg, his own Natural is burning and his Probes are screaming in vain, because a Zergling sits on them and reads a book or something.
One Base Play
This is the second of three tipps for one Base Play. If you do a One Base play, meaning either going one Gateway into high tech units (Corsairs, Templar Tree, Reavers) or opening with two Gateways, you're already in a complex situation. It's a balancing on a razor's blade. Slip and you are dead.
There's not much what could happen to you - if you open with Proxy Gateways (two Gateways in the middle of a map), you will die to Pool first Builds with a high likelihood. Nothing you can do, but that you should have already known.
If you go for Tech, you should build at least two Zealots and block your ramp. That's as far as the general advice goes. Zerg doesn't need to do legit all-ins or cheeses to kill you, he just has to defend you well enough for you to die.
Forge Fast Expand
If you have no scouting information after a Forge Expand you should invest in Cannons. If you do not scout Zerg on the first or second position, be conservative. Use
- 8 - Pylon
- 10 - Forge
- 12 - 2x Cannons
You'll be behind economically, but w/e, still better than dying to a 9 Pool Speedling runby.
Alternatively, you could use a second Probe to scout, usually the one that builds the Forge at 10. However, few players do that regulraly.
If you already have the Nexus and everything down (Nexus at Expansion is done), and you're safe for the next half minute, but have no idea what Zerg's doing, you should also:
- Add a Photon Cannon while your Stargate is warping (Main Base)
- Add a Photon Cannon if you do not open with Stargate right after Cybernetics Core (Main Base)
- Constantly tease the Zerglings in front of your base with a Probe or a Zealot (no no lose them no no no)
- Seriously, do a Stargate Build and use the Corsair to scout
Adding more Cannons means a delayed tech, thus a delayed timed attacked, a delayed third and so on. Again, the same argument, you will not lose because of this. Your chances will go down from 50/50 towards 40/60 if you added too much Cannons, but that's a situation you can come out of. If you forgot to add a Cannon and Mutalisks kicked your first Corsair, you'll be in a 10/90 situation. Compare the odds and decide for yourself.
4/5/6 Pool
The 4/5/6 Pools are a bitch and are like rolling a dice in some scenarios. In most times however, you can counter them relatively easy. Let's analyse it.
General Advice
First, this needs to be scouted. The coinflip aka. unfortunate auto-loss occurs if Zerg knows where you spawn by ruling out two positions via Overlord and Drone scout, plus knowing where he is, while you miss Overlords, Drones and scout him last, only to see 3 Drones mining and no Larvae being near his Hatchery. Well, you're dead if you opened Forge first and no cannons are warping.
If you scout the Zerg if his Zerglings are just popping out, you can react. More on that in a bit. Use your scouting Probe. Stall his Zerglings if possible. Move to his ramp and manually spam stop commands. Most times, the Zerglings are moving with the move command, so they fuck up. Retreat by sending your Probe to mine in your mineral line, it will speed up. Zerg will have given a move command again. Let the Probe attack, it might stall them an additional second. If Zerg was stupid enough to use the Attack command, move around the Zerglings and run to his base. In an ideal world the Zerglings will follow you.
If your Probe survived this distraction, move to his mineral line. The Probe will be useless for you either way. Manually attack his harvesting Drones. He needs to defend, thus loses mining time. Or his Drone will die. Keep your harass Probe alive long, force him to use Zerglings to chase it away if possible. That'd be best.
One Base Play
If you opened with Proxy Gates in the middle of the map you're officially dead.
If you opened with Proxy Gates which block your choke point, you should be able to get out a Zealot in time, then you'll have won, as it will defend it automatically.
If you opened with two or one Gatway in your main, rally the Zealot to your ramp. Get two or more Probes to block the ramp.
If that doesn't work, rally the Zealot into your Mineral line. Use Probes to help defending it. Zerg will now attack and hopefully die, or he will go for your Gateway/Pylon. Attack with your Zealot and 3-4 Probes. Move back and forth. Second Pylon should be built close to your Gateway(s), so you don't have to be afraid to lose this building.
If you're somewhat safe, you should add a second Gateway and can, optionally, spend money on a Forge or a Shield Battery. If Zerg did not go up your ramp, you should be carefuly with your counter. Do not understimate a powerfull backstab or the amount of Zerglings a Zerg can pump from this low eco opening.
Before you start a go, be sure you can last minute block your ramp with a Zealot and two Probes, or better scout with a Probe before leaving your base, so you know where Zerg is and what he exactly does.
Even though it seems pointless: If you, for some reason, chose to go for a One Gateway opening on a map like Tau Cross, Longinus or Heartbreak Ridge, where you have no ramp to defend, try to block the entrance with a Pylon. This might funnel incoming Zerglings enough to defend with a single Zealot. Test the pathing with a Probe first. If a Probe doesn't fit, a Zergling will not either.
Forge Fast Expand
If you're up against a 4/5/6 Pool, you can basically forget your Natural Expansion, if you Zerg scouted you fast enough. If he, for some reason, runs in the wrong direction, put down a cannon and pull up to six Probes to defend it. If he runs for your base, or you know he knows, put down a Pylon close to your Nexus in the Main.
Add a Photon Cannon as soon as it finishes. The priority of the Cannon's placement goes as follows:
- Get it up as soon as possible
- It should cover the Mineral Patches and the Nexus
- Ideally, it is also in between the Minerals and the Nexus and does not block your Probes from mining
Use probes to stall on your choke point, similar to what is described in the General Advice section, if needed. Also, if nothing else helps, attack with all your Probes, to buy time for the Cannon. If the Cannon is up, first add another one, to gain a bigger area in which you can build. Add a Gateway and a Pylon, then a second Gateway. Produce Zealots and attack if you have a sufficient amount of Zealots.
Generally speaking someone told me one Zealot matches three Lings. This should work well. If you got eight Zealots, he'll have a hard time. Deny him from expanding, tech on or expand, you already won.
It's perfectly fine to lose half of your Probes, you can build and re-inforce a lot faster than Zerg.
From now on only advice for Forge Fast Expand!
Mass Lings
If Zerg goes for a Mass Ling Bust you can do a lot. The actualy adaption is straight forward and really easy. A braindead monkey can do it. The scouting however might be hard. To successfully bust, a Zerg needs to research the Speed Upgrade. Hence, seeing an Extractor without it being mined, as well as fast Zerglings is one of the many hints. Furthermore, Zerg will not continue to mine if he's smart, not building a Hydralisk Den or a Lair. Another hint.
Signs summed up:
- Extractor, not being mined
- Fast Zerglings
- Two or three Hatcheries on two or three bases
- very low Drone count
- no Lair
- no Hydra Den
The thing which makes scouting hard is that Zerg can hide his newly trained Zerglings, especially if his Hatcheries are on three bases. He can kill your Probe relatively early, that's why you should send out a second Probe soon.
As mentioned before, countering it is easy. Just follow the Feng Shui safety Building Placement in the general advice section and you're already quite safe. Also, do not underestimate the raw force of many Lings. Either add a third and possibly fourth Cannon on the Natural, or use your Probes.
The bigger danger is to understimate Zerg. You usally follow up with Corsairs, which might give you the false positive of killing his Overlords fast enough. You won't. He'll still be able to pump 24 Lings in a minute or so, going for a second bust. Really, it's his only option to fully recover. In this case, burning buildings have to be replaced as soon as possibly. If the Gateway and the Forge is in red health, better add another Cannon or two, keep your Probes on the small points Zerglings can pass. Better be safe than sorry. Honestly, you do rarely die to the first wave, but the second or even third.
Also, before you attack, be sure to have enough Zealots. Teching up and killing Zerg a few minutes later is better than moving out, losing all Zealots and being in the same situation all over again. That's against you. Without +1 and poor micromanagement this is a risk factor. One Archon, a DT or a larger army, or a Reaver drop - anything works better than a direct counter, even though that's what most likely feels natural.
Hydra Bust
Hydra Bust and Zergling Busts are the most popular all-ins. A Hydra Bust can be done off two or three Hatcheries, more Hatcheries means harder pushes, less Hatcheries mean faster pushes. Regardless, this is fairly easy to scout, but sometimes hard to counter bisubisubisu
Look out for
- Early Gas, still being mined
- Low Drone Count
- Slow Lings
- early Hydralisk Den
In almost all scenarios your Probes are alive long enough. Regardless of what you scout, stop your tech tree for a while. Rather, add Cannons on your Natural Expansion. Delay the Gas you take on your natural. Add a Stargate, you will need it, you can't possibly escape with Zealots or Probes.
You can use your first Zealot to stall the Hydralisk if your third and fourth Cannon still warp. Now for the difficult part. Most Protoss die, because they underestimate what Zerg can do. Your goal is to survive until you have High Templars with Storm. Hence, better add more Cannons and tech up slightly. Every Cannon slows you down, but that doesnt matter.
Here's where the scouting Corsair comes in. Use it. Do not simply kill Overlords, but patrol the mineral lines. When his Drone count goes up, you can stop adding Cannons. If he squeezes out yet more Hydralisks, go for more Cannons. Also, replace your Forge the second it starts to lose shields. Don't try fancy things.
You can use your initial two or three Zealots to bait Hydralisks into Cannon range. They're basically useless for some time, so losing them isn't such a big deal after all. Going for a Dark Templar is basically pointless if any Overlord is close to your Natural Expansion. A good Zerg won't allow you to snipe him with your Corsair, so don't try.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8vsG1bf.jpg)
Picture related
One option to safely tech your way out of Hydralisk pressure is Corsair / Reaver. Reavers are out way earlier than High Templars, deal a lot of splash damage and thus keep you safe. However, using a Sair/Reaver mix to counter this is hard, especially for beginners. Zerg will be able to Drone up in no time and compensate. He just needs to snipe your Reaver and you're back to square one.
Instead, if you don't have the control, just add four to eight Gateways (depending on how you feel it will turn out), prepare the ordinary Speedzealot +1/High Templar/Storm army and walz over Zerg. Put him back into his bases, camp instead of throwing away your army, be passive aggressive. Expand. And so on and so forth.
The key, just to TL;DR: Get Cannons up in time, do not panic. Do not overdo on Cannons, use your Corsair wisely.
User Tipp:
On December 18 2013 18:06 JMave wrote:
There was this one thing that bisu always does in his PvZ and that is to send his first zealot to the natural and then the second zealot to the third. This is to force him to make more lings and also it acts as a scout during the timing between where your probe dies and you getting up your first corsair to scout. If zerg skips lair and goes for 3 hatch hydra, the hydras will be out super early so this zealot scouting should warn you pretty early by seeing if he has hydras at that point.
-- Original Post
There was this one thing that bisu always does in his PvZ and that is to send his first zealot to the natural and then the second zealot to the third. This is to force him to make more lings and also it acts as a scout during the timing between where your probe dies and you getting up your first corsair to scout. If zerg skips lair and goes for 3 hatch hydra, the hydras will be out super early so this zealot scouting should warn you pretty early by seeing if he has hydras at that point.
-- Original Post
Two Hatch Mutalisk
Back to the harder to counter Build Orders. Two Hatchery Mutalisks can appear to be really, really imbalanced, because if played correctly, they're really, really deadly. It needs Protoss to adapt faster than for most other Build Orders and you will face it relatively rarely. Do not underestimate this strategy.
Scouting Signs:
- Early Gas, still being mined
- Low Drone Count
- Speed Zerglings
- early Lair
- early second Gas
- no or few Drones mining on Natural Expansion
- Spire
Again, it's pretty straight forward. A good Zerg will try to runby with a 9 Pool Speed opening and about 6 to 12 Zerglings. He will not try to kill your Natural, but occupy Main
Consequently, you should do your best to stop any runby, the fewer Zerglings pass, the harder it'll be for Zerg to kill you. You should add this in this order and only this order (Main Base):
- 2nd Pylon close to Nexus
- Cybernetics Core
- Cannon Main Base
- Stargate near Main Base
- Cannon Main Base
- Corsair
If you're already sure Mutalisks will follow, don't move your Corsair. Also, add a third Cannon there. With 2 Hatch Mutas, the Mutas will be in your Main so soon, your Corsair is barely out. Zerg can simply "waste" his Mutalisks on your Cannon, which allows him to add one pair of Scourge for your weak anti air. Do. Never. Underestimate. The. Power. Of. Mutalisks. One Cannon is not really better than two turrets, even though they cost the same. Mutas dont even need to be microed.
Usually, getting the Main Base safe is not an automated win, but a half of it. If Zerg scouts he's a bit too late, he can try to bust your main. Hence, do not stop Zealot production, add a third Cannon near your Natural Nexus as well. Hundreds of Protoss died figuring out that two Corsairs can't fight ten Mutalisks, twelve Zerglings and four Scourge.
Once you're safe, add more Corsairs and prepare a +1 Corsair/+1 Zealot attack. Zerg will be forced to meet you. To be ultra safe, you can add Archons as well. Your Zealots may die, your Corsairs should be kept alive to maintain air superiority.
One / Two Base Lurkers
It is surprising how few Zerg actually go for this. It's powerful and has a huge potential, especially if scouted too well or if underestimated. Scouting it is pretty straight forward:
- Early Gas, still being mined
- Low Drone Count
- Speed Zerglings
- early Lair
- early second Gas
- no or few Drones mining on Natural Expansion
- Hydralisk Den being morphed when Lair is halfway done
If you see one or two Hydralisks being built and a Lair starting as well with a maximum of two Hatcheries immediatly add Cannons to your Natural Expansion. Use Zealots to block Lurkers as long as possible, give your Cannons time to shoot down the Zerglings first. A mix of Speedlings and Lurkers can take on surprisingly many Cannons, two won't be enough, three will mean a close fight and four mean relative safety.
Make sure your Cannons cover the entire area, especially on maps like Python or Destination, where your choke is relatively wide. Maps like Medusa, Heartbreak Ridge, Electric Circuit have neutral buildings blocking a second entrance. Have a Probe there watching out. Same goes for the mineral Patch at destination, you can glitch Lurkers upwards if you know how to. Be sure to have Cannons at that entrance in time.
Once you defended against Lurkers, try to go for Corsairs. Zerg can't deal with this unit with low eco and two/one Hatches. He needs all the gas in the world to keep his Tech alive. Slowly shoot down Overlords and slowly build up an army of whatever. The game is yours if your Natural doesn't go down right away.
Slow Drops / Elevator
Now for the only "real" cheese Zerg has. This is really awkward and if done properly, hard. Bisu vs. Yellow shows why. Go Stormzerg. This could happen to anyone, not only to Bisu. It's also fairly hard to scout, because it can be disguised as 2 Hatch Muta, Hydra/Ling Bust or Lurker opening. It's really shitty to scout that and there are few signs to see this in time.
Signs
- Early Gas, still being mined
- Speed Zerglings
- early Lair
Honestly, you can be slow dropped without you knowing. This is why it's quite important to know where the second Overlord of Zerg went to. One should be at your Natural, a second one near your base is usually a strong hint. You can't be sure.
Adding the third/fourth/fivth Pylon around the edges of your main base help to see a drop incoming sooner. If you see an Overlord moving to your base shoot it dead, especially if Zerg units miss in front of your Natural and nothing is at a Zerg base either, while the Drone count doesn't really go up.
Be honest with yourself, the first Overlord can die, as long as it unloads. Zerg won't care. If it unloads two Lurkers and eight Speedlings, he can suicide attack to your Main Nexus. Hence, move your units in its path and stall the incoming units as fast as possible.
It'll be a difficult match for you. In an ideal world, you just killed the Overlord, before it could unload. Zerg is in a disadvantage, from which he can still transition out of. He'll be in relative safety, so don't overdo it with your reaction. From there on out, do not move out, if a group of Overlords move to your Main Base, if the Main Base isn't guarded by a few Cannons and preferrably a High Templar.
If Zerg manages to drop units and deal some damage, add an Observatory early on - the Robotics Facility near Cannons, Main Base or Natural. You can lose almost anything without being in a too tight place, except the Robotics and the Observatory. Early Drops are best when Lurkers are involved.
Also, for the love of god, deny any Elevators. Elevators are one or more Overlords, constantly pouring in units from outside.
Bad Last Words
Thanks go out to all the Zerg players who taught me patience and made me loathe the hatred. This hopefully helps some beginners, it was designed for you.
Questions might be answered if I feel like it. Spelling mistakes / typos / grammar might be fixed later. Same goes for graphics.
