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Stop it. It's a waste of time and now you're distracting others.
Any read you get on him will be plausibly deniable. There is no way you will improve your reads by obsessing over his identity. Meta-reads are already dubious (though still useful), adding an extra layer of probability (you being correct in your read on him) renders them obsolete. It's got about the same chance of being successful as a D1 association case.
I've already made adjustments on my lean for both of you based on this distraction. If you are town you won't want me getting further confused no?
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On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote:
Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
The first paragraph talks about how he'll be inactive during D1, then the second paragraph goes on about how he'll go after inactive players. It's a semi self-contradictory post. Semi, because he only said he'll be inactive during D1 whereas going after inactive players spans the whole game. He clarifies it in his next post.
On December 10 2013 06:13 Corazon wrote:
I sense the fact that you aren't reading my posts 100%. You've already gotten off to a rocky start with me due to your baseless accusation. Make sure it doesn't happen again.
I don't like this post because his post implies he isn't trying to get scumreads. He's saying "you're playing bad, keep playing bad and I'll vote you!", basically. This displays a scum mindset to me.
On December 10 2013 07:15 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 07:12 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon
I see no problem with the votes. What is your problem with them?
If you want me to contribute thing with which I can later contradict myself, ask me a question. That's what someone that is trying to find scum would do.
What would a scum do? Sorry I can't ask you questions right now, I have to get all of the shit off me that Xatalos threw on me. Sorry. You said that you had a problem with me basing my suspicions off of nothing and I was just reflecting that it was similar to how I was pressured - not based off of much. Now I must go to work.
This post feels very townie to me. He seems genuinely frustrated at the pressure piled upon him, even admitting that his suspicions were based off nothing out of frustration that other people were doing that on him. His Xatalos case is mostly a rehash of what was already said in the thread. It didn't feel like a case attempting to get town cred, but more an attempt to actually push for a Xatalos lynch.
As for Plutarch's interactions with Corazon, it feels to me like Corazon's frustration is genuine. He just wants people to get off his back. Corazon's defense of himself doesn't feel like it would be the optimal defense to make from a scum point of view. I find the tale of frustrated townie more likely, with the post I quoted earlier being the only thing that truly suggests scum. Corazon has no problem being contradictory. His posts aren't carefully constructed, and they feel genuine.
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On December 10 2013 20:20 kushm4sta wrote:
@rayn i dont remember what game dessert was. I actually better remember xatalos' meta from a game i played with him several months ago when I first started playing mafia. He posted as little as possible without looking like a lurker.
If his meta has changed as you suggest, that I take back my townread of him.
I was talking about this very game! That I didn't play in.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I don't mind if you get more confused because we're quite clearly just having fun for a few posts.
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On December 10 2013 20:44 Plutarch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 20:20 kushm4sta wrote:
@rayn i dont remember what game dessert was. I actually better remember xatalos' meta from a game i played with him several months ago when I first started playing mafia. He posted as little as possible without looking like a lurker.
If his meta has changed as you suggest, that I take back my townread of him. I was talking about this very game! That I didn't play in.
Interesting. In case you are not lying about the game you are talking about how do you explain your use of words [u]in my experience when it cannot possibly be "in your experience"?[/i]
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 10 2013 20:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 20:44 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 20:20 kushm4sta wrote:
@rayn i dont remember what game dessert was. I actually better remember xatalos' meta from a game i played with him several months ago when I first started playing mafia. He posted as little as possible without looking like a lurker.
If his meta has changed as you suggest, that I take back my townread of him. I was talking about this very game! That I didn't play in. Interesting. In case you are not lying about the game you are talking about how do you explain your use of words [u]in my experience when it cannot possibly be "in your experience"? [/i]
because he was obsing:
Oatsmaster, Obzy, debears, yamato, marvellosity
That is the list of obs in that game.
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On December 10 2013 20:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 20:44 Plutarch wrote:On December 10 2013 20:20 kushm4sta wrote:
@rayn i dont remember what game dessert was. I actually better remember xatalos' meta from a game i played with him several months ago when I first started playing mafia. He posted as little as possible without looking like a lurker.
If his meta has changed as you suggest, that I take back my townread of him. I was talking about this very game! That I didn't play in. Interesting. In case you are not lying about the game you are talking about how do you explain your use of words [u]in my experience when it cannot possibly be "in your experience"? [/i]
I read the whole game several times as it was happening. Seems like experience to me.
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this game doesn't have nearly enough fluff imo. corazon posting first was a major fluff killer.
Frankly I think plutarch is way too cheery to be iamperfection. That guy is a meanie. I don't think I can guess who it is actually and I will stop trying now so speghetti doesn't get too confused;
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either debears or obzy then.
if it's debears then<3 i love you debears.
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So when you are talking about Xatalos' scum meta why do you not look at games that are close to this one in terms of size? And games that are most recent (hint: Dessert)?
Kush and Plutarch does either one of you have anything to say about my post on Xatalos?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 10 2013 20:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So when you are talking about Xatalos' scum meta why do you not look at games that are close to this one in terms of size? And games that are most recent (hint: Dessert)?
Kush and Plutarch does either one of you have anything to say about my post on Xatalos?
I'm not so sure they match up. In the ones that you linked they are all fluff and undecided. In this game he's discussing things and although is undecided I don't get the same feeling of style from it.
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Err maybe we are not talking about the same game then. I was talking about a much older game. Too old to use as solid meta that is for sure.
I didn't look at other games at all. I just said something that I remembered about xatalos as scum. I didn't realize the game was 18 months old when I said it. So you should disregard that statement obviously.
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I don't think Xatalos is scummy regardless.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
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On December 10 2013 20:53 kushm4sta wrote:
either debears or obzy then.
if it's debears then<3 i love you debears.
Wrong FYI.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Oh! it's VE. That was boring :S
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Spag who do you think is scummy? Do you have any town reads? You haven't really contributed much at all.
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On December 10 2013 21:05 Holyflare wrote:
Oh! it's VE. That was boring :S
last time I will do this but wrong.
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On December 10 2013 20:57 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2013 20:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So when you are talking about Xatalos' scum meta why do you not look at games that are close to this one in terms of size? And games that are most recent (hint: Dessert)?
Kush and Plutarch does either one of you have anything to say about my post on Xatalos? I'm not so sure they match up. In the ones that you linked they are all fluff and undecided. In this game he's discussing things and although is undecided I don't get the same feeling of style from it.
I am more interested why a skilled player like Plutarch makes a half-arsed meta read on him. That's quite inexcusible, given that i think the nature of the posts is in fact quite similar.
In both of the games Xatalos calls kushmasta anti-town but not necessarily scum. He calls people out and then says "but while this could be scummy it also could be not". He does not reach into any conclusions while prodding left and right. This early on in the game i would agree it does not necessarily make him scum - as i said, but what bothers me is how certain people defend him based on false/bad evidence.
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rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon
2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time
3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?)
Artanis, now I'd like you to answer:
1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why?
2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me?
3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
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EPT
