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On November 05 2013 12:47 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:32 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly. You best be voting for Sn0 if you bailin' The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh. I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will. OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm? Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn.
One of the things that you dislike about Vanesco is his stance on power roles. That's all? What do you think about Vanesco's interactions with people?
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On November 05 2013 12:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In the last game i made a similar case on WoS that Cephiro is doing now. I even think my case was stronger. He was town.
Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing.
##Vote: gumshoe
just because i do not like anything he has said this game. LOL FUCKING NINJAD
:p
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On November 05 2013 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In the last game i made a similar case on WoS that Cephiro is doing now. I even think my case was stronger. He was town.
Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing.
##Vote: gumshoe
just because i do not like anything he has said this game.
Come on dude, this is a bit of a copout. Can you explain at all?
I really don't think a scum gumshoe would go through the effort to do what he did---do you remember his play from Basterd?
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On November 05 2013 12:50 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:47 Umasi wrote:On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:32 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly. You best be voting for Sn0 if you bailin' The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh. I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will. OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm? Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn. Yeah I think I misunderstood your post a bit but really this response is what I was looking for. Just some justifications for each would be helpful. Also since sn0 is there what would it take to get a vote out of you for him?
The inevitability that Vanesco will not be lynched would make me vote for echelon or sn0, they're basically on the same level.
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On November 05 2013 12:42 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:38 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:02 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cephiro to answer to your example about WoS:
I don't think that's scummy at all. I had the same kind of train of thought about Vanesco that i see from WoS. Just because WoS did post his thought process in many parts does that make him scum? What's wrong in the thought process, i don't anything wrong with it - maybe i am biased because i thought basically the same at first and reached into similar conclusion than WoS did - but could you elaborate more on why the thought process can't come from a townie? I see your point. And I do not expect my read to be right based on one example only. It was an example only to get my point across to you. It's more about the amount of things that would be incredibly convinient for scum that happen, and the reactions of WoS that are in strong contrast with his own opinions of how a townie should play the game. Single thought processes of his could very well come from a townie yes, but looking at the whole history of his, I find it much more likely to be done from a scum perspective, for one reason alone the sheer amount of inconsistencies and his refusal to correct or address many of them. On November 05 2013 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cephiro perhaps I need to be a little more clear.
NOT ONLY do I not accept that scum are more likely to be inconsistent, I wouldn't be surprised if the complete opposite is true. Have you never missed a math question, have you never forgotten anything? Why would you expect someone who rolls town in an online forum game of mafia to be perfect? Townies aren't the ones who are constantly wondering if their story adds up, mafia are. You can point out as many inconsistencies in WoS's play as you like and I will never listen to you unless you can show me how the inconsistencies are specifically scum-motivated. You need to show a clear mafia agenda behind the fuck-ups, otherwise you've just gone and pointed out a bunch of things that can probably be found in every single filter in every mafia game.
The other reason of why I don't like your case is because of the strong town vibes I feel while reading WoS's posts. I sense nothing fake/reserved/malicious/secretive about them. Alright, I very well see your point. I certainly don't expect townies to play perfectly. I personally just consider it more likely for someone that is constant pressure about being caught in a lie to be inconsistent in their story (especially the longer the story becomes), rather than for a townie that is simply telling the story as his opinions move forward. (Basically for a honest townie, the only inconsistencies come from if he doesn't care about what he said earlier, or forgot and does a sudden change of mind without reasoning, which is rare in my opinion.) Thank you for providing the reasoning behind your point though. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we'll have agree to disagree on this one it seems. At several points in the case (in my opinion), I provided good thoughts as for why the inconsistencies are especially scum-motivated. That can't be said for every point, as there are so many things to be considered ambigiously. But I tried my best to show why certain things are in my opinion clearly done from a mafia perspective. My refusal to correct inconsistencies? That's because THERE ARE NONE. Cephiro bring up one example of an inconsistency from your case right now and I will show you how it's not in one instant; I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the thread. Alright, let's start with this one. On November 04 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh Why would you give him a free out if you lean town on him, and THEN basically invite everyone to jump on it? It makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. I can still understand giving a free out to someone you think is town to try and help them, but then pointing them out for taking it? I can't see this from a town perspective no matter how I look at it. If I assume you are town doing this -> You're giving a free bone for scum to take up on. If you think Vanesco was town, there is absolutely no reason for you to do that, as if anything it makes him look worse. Also the fact that you're asking someone else to do the job for you. I didn't do it specifically TO give him the out. My case for him being town was an out by nature. It wasn't a bait to see how he'd react but it interested me nonetheless. In the end it seems as though he took ET's out rather than mine, even though they basically amounted to the same thing. After the point at which I decided he was town rather than scum I never wavered from that point. A free bone for scum to pick up on and do what? Try to fight against me? Like Umasi is still doing with his vote on Vanesco? Look at where it's landing him in my books right now. Come on, Ceph. As far as me making him look bad, Vanesco already looked really bad at that point; his play since that point has looked much better---he is actively looking everywhere to find scum, keeping an open mind and engaging in conversation. Anything else?
Alright. I see the point of your first paragraph. What I meant as a free bone for scum to pick is this: If you are town, and believe Van is town as well, you pointed out a flaw in Van's play (which assumingly you didn't want to pick up on yourself, since you wanted to protect him), if so, why point it out at all? And if you really wanted to see what others thought about that without blaming him yourself, did you not consider the possibility that it is essentially a free flaw pointed out that scum can use to push a mislynch on Van? That is what I meant with the point.
On November 04 2013 23:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently.
Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)?
It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example).
At this point in the game, you hadn't really done any pressuring towards players you may have been suspicious of. You tell how the situation at the time is very scum-favoured, but you don't do anything about it. This is not the only time you have pointed out things that should be acted upon but not done anything yourself. (I will admit your play looks a little better now later on, but at the time of this post that was certainly not the case, nor rightly after.)
Also while re-reading my case, I found one point which looks much better for you than I presented, I'm fairly sure you meant otherwise and misread it myself. (If anyone wonders, it's this one: )
It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now.
I had originally understood this wrong as not providing analysis (since he didn't), and telling why, when in fact he probably meant he is worried about his analysis being wrong, and that's why he wants others opinions on them. This is now a much more positive sentence in my eyes, even though I still do not like why he is worried about being wrong so much.
On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe?
This is where your main point of defending yourself is the amount of filter you have. You don't really provide much reasoning for other defense even after this even though you claim to. You also claim that "your filter and content was never the main defense", when this points out otherwise.
Please address these two points in a calm and fair manner. At the moment you are still the person I would like to be lynched the most. Address these points, and I'll leave you some time to share more of your own scumreads, and reasons for why they are scum, as I feel that will tell me more than constantly pointing out the flaws in your play over and over again.
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So many people wish-washing towards a Sn0 lynch, including myself.
Makes me feel really bad about it because SO many people have mentioned it I'm sure scum are among them.
I think I will NOT be voting Sn0 today.
Syl, welcome to the thread.
Did you show up 'cause I mentioned you or was that a happy coincidence?
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On November 05 2013 12:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In the last game i made a similar case on WoS that Cephiro is doing now. I even think my case was stronger. He was town.
Being undecisive at this point of the game or asking other people's opinions is not scummy. That's pretty much everything i have to say. Of course it would be cool if everyone played perfectly and pressured people and shut down cases/arguments that are obviously bad but that's unfortunately what people are capable of doing.
##Vote: gumshoe
just because i do not like anything he has said this game. Come on dude, this is a bit of a copout. Can you explain at all? I really don't think a scum gumshoe would go through the effort to do what he did---do you remember his play from Basterd?
tbh no, i do not remember his play from Basterd. I remember he claimed on N1 but i don't even remember why.
After that he has been modkilled for inactivity or soht because i accidently outed him as blue (in a game i somehow thought everyone was blue) while he did pretty much nothing. 50% of my case on him is that i want him to actually say something uselful and 50% is that what he has said is either faked for no reason or useless contributions or something that makes no sense to me.
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gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt.
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On November 05 2013 13:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
So many people wish-washing towards a Sn0 lynch, including myself.
Makes me feel really bad about it because SO many people have mentioned it I'm sure scum are among them.
I think I will NOT be voting Sn0 today.
Ya think?
You have said multiple times that you think that I may be scum and you need to look into it. It might be time to stop saying it and actually look into me. It should'nt take long, I have not even posted much. I'll even give you a clue, look at the question that Thrawn asked me in regards to my case on Sn0.
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On November 05 2013 12:57 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:47 Umasi wrote:On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:32 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly. You best be voting for Sn0 if you bailin' The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh. I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will. OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm? Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn. One of the things that you dislike about Vanesco is his stance on power roles. That's all? What do you think about Vanesco's interactions with people?
I don't think he's had any interactions with people that seem townie. Maybe I've disagreed with a lot of his points in conjunction with getting a totally shit vibe from his original post regarding Sylencia, but I don't think so *shrug*
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It's not the point Umasi. You are supposed to tell us why the interactions are scummy.
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On November 05 2013 12:58 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:50 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:47 Umasi wrote:On November 05 2013 12:42 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:36 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:32 ObviousOne wrote:On November 05 2013 12:29 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh and I'm going to make this crystal clear right now.
I will not be around for deadline tomorrow. I may be around during my lunch hour but after tonight assume this will be the end of my activity for D1.
If people pull some shenannies and attempt to lynch me in that time, just know what it is you're doing exactly. You best be voting for Sn0 if you bailin' The issue I have with Sn0 is him basically refusing to contribute today. Would scum flat-out refuse to contribute when pressured? I guess it's possible but ugh. I have mentioned I would be comfortable with any of those three getting lynched and if people absolutely won't switch to Onegu then maybe I will. OO on the note of contribution, what has Umasi done that Sn0 hasn't? What are your thoughts on him atm? Umasi is on the radar, repeat, he is ON THE RADAR. Super outspoken against discussing the coven powers and thinks Vanesco is the scummiest guy in the thread. And that's pretty much it. And that's pretty underwhelming. But it's not necessarily scummy to have an out-there scum read. Would rather like to know another two scum reads from him as well because I could put his filter through a sieve and only the word Vanesco would filter out. So I'll wait 'til we get that. am I misunderstanding what you just said? One of the things I dislike about Vanesco is his attempt to stop discussion about coven powers. am I misinterpreting what you just wrote or did you misinterpret what I said? second scum read=echelontee third scum read=Sn0 Still watching rayn. Yeah I think I misunderstood your post a bit but really this response is what I was looking for. Just some justifications for each would be helpful. Also since sn0 is there what would it take to get a vote out of you for him? The inevitability that Vanesco will not be lynched would make me vote for echelon or sn0, they're basically on the same level.
You keep making posts of nothing and wont tell us any detail of how your read on your primary scum target has matured.
If you cannot vote for your primary target then you happen to choose two targets that don't have a lot of support in thread and you do not give any reasons as to why you think that they are scum.
##unvote
##Vote: Umasi
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On November 05 2013 13:00 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:42 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:38 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 12:27 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 12:02 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 11:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cephiro to answer to your example about WoS:
I don't think that's scummy at all. I had the same kind of train of thought about Vanesco that i see from WoS. Just because WoS did post his thought process in many parts does that make him scum? What's wrong in the thought process, i don't anything wrong with it - maybe i am biased because i thought basically the same at first and reached into similar conclusion than WoS did - but could you elaborate more on why the thought process can't come from a townie? I see your point. And I do not expect my read to be right based on one example only. It was an example only to get my point across to you. It's more about the amount of things that would be incredibly convinient for scum that happen, and the reactions of WoS that are in strong contrast with his own opinions of how a townie should play the game. Single thought processes of his could very well come from a townie yes, but looking at the whole history of his, I find it much more likely to be done from a scum perspective, for one reason alone the sheer amount of inconsistencies and his refusal to correct or address many of them. On November 05 2013 11:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cephiro perhaps I need to be a little more clear.
NOT ONLY do I not accept that scum are more likely to be inconsistent, I wouldn't be surprised if the complete opposite is true. Have you never missed a math question, have you never forgotten anything? Why would you expect someone who rolls town in an online forum game of mafia to be perfect? Townies aren't the ones who are constantly wondering if their story adds up, mafia are. You can point out as many inconsistencies in WoS's play as you like and I will never listen to you unless you can show me how the inconsistencies are specifically scum-motivated. You need to show a clear mafia agenda behind the fuck-ups, otherwise you've just gone and pointed out a bunch of things that can probably be found in every single filter in every mafia game.
The other reason of why I don't like your case is because of the strong town vibes I feel while reading WoS's posts. I sense nothing fake/reserved/malicious/secretive about them. Alright, I very well see your point. I certainly don't expect townies to play perfectly. I personally just consider it more likely for someone that is constant pressure about being caught in a lie to be inconsistent in their story (especially the longer the story becomes), rather than for a townie that is simply telling the story as his opinions move forward. (Basically for a honest townie, the only inconsistencies come from if he doesn't care about what he said earlier, or forgot and does a sudden change of mind without reasoning, which is rare in my opinion.) Thank you for providing the reasoning behind your point though. I'm not saying I'm right or you're wrong, but we'll have agree to disagree on this one it seems. At several points in the case (in my opinion), I provided good thoughts as for why the inconsistencies are especially scum-motivated. That can't be said for every point, as there are so many things to be considered ambigiously. But I tried my best to show why certain things are in my opinion clearly done from a mafia perspective. My refusal to correct inconsistencies? That's because THERE ARE NONE. Cephiro bring up one example of an inconsistency from your case right now and I will show you how it's not in one instant; I wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the thread. Alright, let's start with this one. On November 04 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
Anyone is welcome to comment on Vanesco basically taking the out I gave him and running with it, because I still lean towny on him, but ughhhhhhhhh Why would you give him a free out if you lean town on him, and THEN basically invite everyone to jump on it? It makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective. I can still understand giving a free out to someone you think is town to try and help them, but then pointing them out for taking it? I can't see this from a town perspective no matter how I look at it. If I assume you are town doing this -> You're giving a free bone for scum to take up on. If you think Vanesco was town, there is absolutely no reason for you to do that, as if anything it makes him look worse. Also the fact that you're asking someone else to do the job for you. I didn't do it specifically TO give him the out. My case for him being town was an out by nature. It wasn't a bait to see how he'd react but it interested me nonetheless. In the end it seems as though he took ET's out rather than mine, even though they basically amounted to the same thing. After the point at which I decided he was town rather than scum I never wavered from that point. A free bone for scum to pick up on and do what? Try to fight against me? Like Umasi is still doing with his vote on Vanesco? Look at where it's landing him in my books right now. Come on, Ceph. As far as me making him look bad, Vanesco already looked really bad at that point; his play since that point has looked much better---he is actively looking everywhere to find scum, keeping an open mind and engaging in conversation. Anything else? Alright. I see the point of your first paragraph. What I meant as a free bone for scum to pick is this: If you are town, and believe Van is town as well, you pointed out a flaw in Van's play (which assumingly you didn't want to pick up on yourself, since you wanted to protect him), if so, why point it out at all? And if you really wanted to see what others thought about that without blaming him yourself, did you not consider the possibility that it is essentially a free flaw pointed out that scum can use to push a mislynch on Van? That is what I meant with the point. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently.
Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)?
It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example). At this point in the game, you hadn't really done any pressuring towards players you may have been suspicious of. You tell how the situation at the time is very scum-favoured, but you don't do anything about it. This is not the only time you have pointed out things that should be acted upon but not done anything yourself. (I will admit your play looks a little better now later on, but at the time of this post that was certainly not the case, nor rightly after.) Also while re-reading my case, I found one point which looks much better for you than I presented, I'm fairly sure you meant otherwise and misread it myself. (If anyone wonders, it's this one: ) Show nested quote +It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now. I had originally understood this wrong as not providing analysis (since he didn't), and telling why, when in fact he probably meant he is worried about his analysis being wrong, and that's why he wants others opinions on them. This is now a much more positive sentence in my eyes, even though I still do not like why he is worried about being wrong so much. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? This is where your main point of defending yourself is the amount of filter you have. You don't really provide much reasoning for other defense even after this even though you claim to. You also claim that "your filter and content was never the main defense", when this points out otherwise. Please address these two points in a calm and fair manner. At the moment you are still the person I would like to be lynched the most. Address these points, and I'll leave you some time to share more of your own scumreads, and reasons for why they are scum, as I feel that will tell me more than constantly pointing out the flaws in your play over and over again.
This is the last one.
'Free flaws' don't do shit in my eyes to help push a point against a towny for scum because I POINTED IT OUT. If someone else latches on then it's just sheeping and gives no towny points.
As far as the defending myself based on subjectivity---stream-of-consciousness. Just because I reiterated it doesn't make it the main point in my defense, but from my POV it just seemed (and still seems) so ridiculous that anyone could think I am scum based on everytrhing I have done thus far, either using meta to prove it or simply my actions within the thread. Like you mentioned this should be even more evident right now.
The other thing about me being worried that I'm wrong seems pretty obvious to me. I don't want to give scum a townread based on noobiness, because I have done it before and it fucks me. (I think that was what I was referring to there?) Again it's stuff like this which annoys me because I try to be as open and transparent as possible with everything I say---would it be better for people if I hid stuff like that just so people like you wouldn't pick it out and use it in cases against me? The 'free flaw' thing too. Sure if I think Vanesco is town there may be no reason to point it out, but at least when I do a) scum can't use it, b) it creates discussion and will maybe stimulate a point of thought in somebody else I wouldn't have considered.
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On November 05 2013 12:37 Umasi wrote:
I disagree with the aggression on WoS, how he's playing is pretty much in keeping with a town WoS. That said, don't be so angry wave, you're kind of overreacting.
Regardless, would it piss everyone off to say I still think vanesco is the best lynch?
He's still the best lynch.
Has he done anything since last night to further strengthen your scum read on him? As I said before, I don't really agree with what he's said that much but I can see the train of thought behind it. The contributions which you've provided is just a weak case on Vanesco and continuing to push it.
That said, ET's filter looks pretty horrendous as it can be summed up as so:
Vanesco looks null to scummy because it didn't match Newbie Mafia L (weak)
thrawn posted a list of players who had posted but wasn't advocating lurker lynch (weak)
Nothing else has been said really...
Tbh at the moment ET's filter is really sticking out like a sore thumb to me the more I think about it, since the rest of his posts look like really weak attempts at looking townie :|
##vote EchelonTee
Continuing on to more reading...
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On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote:
gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt.
Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style.
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On November 05 2013 13:04 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
So many people wish-washing towards a Sn0 lynch, including myself.
Makes me feel really bad about it because SO many people have mentioned it I'm sure scum are among them.
I think I will NOT be voting Sn0 today.
Ya think? You have said multiple times that you think that I may be scum and you need to look into it. It might be time to stop saying it and actually look into me. It should'nt take long, I have not even posted much. I'll even give you a clue, look at the question that Thrawn asked me in regards to my case on Sn0.
I have looked into it. I can't be sure; I be gettin' da hoodoo vibe from you but maybe it's because I know what you're capable of. As it stands you're not the lynch for today so it shouldn't matter to you right now.
I certainly don't mind your vote on Umasi, though I probably would have liked it better if it had miraculously come BEFORE I mentioned not wanting to lynch Sn0. Not to say that makes you scum, but instead of giving you possible town points, it's null right now because you could have had either motivation for moving.
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On November 05 2013 13:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
So many people wish-washing towards a Sn0 lynch, including myself.
Makes me feel really bad about it because SO many people have mentioned it I'm sure scum are among them.
I think I will NOT be voting Sn0 today.
Syl, welcome to the thread.
Did you show up 'cause I mentioned you or was that a happy coincidence?
Happy coincidence, I've been catching up and stuff for the past hour and a half now 
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On November 05 2013 13:09 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote:
gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt. Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style.
Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy.
Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me.
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On November 05 2013 12:56 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 08:02 Cephiro wrote:
Aight. That was an interesting read.
As for witchpowershiznit, I suggest we claim our votes only, 72 hours after. I've come up with an interesting idea as well. We will claim the votes in order, one at a time. I have an algorhithm based on certain actions in the game that make me very confident in the idea this will work.
Also, vote me for blue.
I'd like to hear more from players: raynpelikoneet, hzflank, thrawn, Sn0_Man + Myself.
##Vote: WaveOfShadow Have you actually read the thread? I'm sure you would've already dismissed your idea already because we already discussed revealing witchcraft votes and it was either too risky or there were problems in regards to the overlap of blues because we're not likely to change our votes that much between the days, so it's a simple blue shot no matter when we really reveal... I don't really buy the fact that there's an algorithm which would work in our favour 'depending on certain actions in the games' because there are so many things which can happen. Following on from that, why would it ever be a smart move to try gather WC votes so obviously when it just sets you up to be a vig target? The vote on WoS in your very first post sets you up here for a long long tunnel which I'm still currently getting through (though I've taken a skip over the wall of text for now) - if anything I feel like you decided to target WoS after seeing recent posts and then did the long filter dive process to back it up at a later point. This is obviously baseless conjecture but I can see that happening from a scum player.
Yes, I have read the thread. I still do not consider revealing witchcraft votes after the blues have been re-chosen. I do not consider it smart to keep choosing the same people over and over again, some changes will have to be done. As long as preferably 1 person at most overlaps between consequential nights, it is still very unlikely for scum to hit our blues with the additional information from our voting patterns. If we follow my plan of claiming in a certain order based on my algorhithm, it will be very likely we'll catch scum on that alone since they are forced to lie about their witchcraft votes, as they do not have any.
As for why it would be smart to gather WC votes publically? How do you even know if I actually want the votes? What if I am just building a start for something to presenting myself as a possible target for the bullet to be wasted on? Or maybe I just really really like being a blue and doing stuff? Think about it.
I fail to see how I am tunneling WoS. I have provided my opinions on several other players. There is not enough to convince me he is town currently. Is pressuring your most certain scumread, while actively discussing others tunelling in your opinion? Read the case before accusing me of making an useless wall of text.
On November 05 2013 12:56 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 09:05 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 08:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 05 2013 08:43 Cephiro wrote:
I was simply curious of your opinion about ET. Even though I cannot be sure it's from a town point of view, it still helps to hear perspectives of others as well, to ensure one is not too tunneled with their own opinion, whether it's about thinking someone is town or scum. Even though a certain confidence in one's reads is a must. Ok. So what are your thoughts on this game? You've just now made your first post, but it's somewhat devoid of content which is surprising since you already know who you want to vote for. You've discussed some things with me without really talking about your own views on the game. So far, despite you making a serious vote and having a serious conversation with me about another player, I still have no clue how you're thinking about the game. Why is this and can you fix it? Yes, I didn't intend to start off with a case, neither reason my vote on WoS more specificly. If there is someone you want my general or specific opinion on, just ask. I have several reads to a direction or another, as well as many nullreads. I just don't consider most of them to be worth sharing right now. Nevertheless I'm content with joining in like this, and I intend to make my thought process clear regarding my reads to the most extent, excluding possible thingamagics I have a tendency of pulling off. As for a more concise reply: It is because I wanted to not present all my thoughts in the open immediately. I can "fix" it by replying to any queries you might have. I will also be sharing more content when I find it necessary. How is actively choosing not to give reasoning behind your votes ever townie here? Especially when you make a 'serious' vote on the first post which means that literally no one knows that your train of thought has been before you voted? Choosing to present thoughts only when asked is basically allowing yourself to reveal as little about what you think as possible, which really only has scum motivation behind it since it reduces the likelihood of inconsistencies popping up in the future, no? Skimming over your case, half the points honestly seem like a stretch and rayn's covered pretty much my thoughts on that, I'll have to get back to your reply soon but honestly it's taken me an hour to hit this point because everyone seems to want to write essays these days :{ Conclusion: I don't really buy Ceph's case, and his entrance to me looks like a forced tunnel into WoS. That said, I still need to look at a few other filters before getting deeper reads but Ceph's on my radar at the moment.
Because I was open to replying at any point, as shown in my answers to thrawn's queries. I also fairly quickly followed up with my reasoning. I present thoughts also when not asked, however I don't consider it useful for me to randomly ramble about how I'm unsure about person Y's alignment. Or do you really find it useful? When I have good content to share, I do. When I don't, I follow the thread, ask questions, and reply to questions.
I do like that you are criticizing my play, however I hope my replies will show you why they are from a town perspective.
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Alright let's play a game.
It's called, 'What are people's reads on Syl?'
When I get 3-4 answers I will explain my own and why.
Bonus points to hzflank if he is one of them. Umasi too. Also Rayn.
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EPT
