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On October 31 2013 23:27 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:20 Gahlo wrote:On October 31 2013 22:08 nafta wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Too expensive.Also bork first is stronger. I was alluding to TF second. On October 31 2013 22:08 Wrag wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Probably because she can't reliably chain the procs. Even tho Q has a short-ish CD, her other 2 active skills are situational/long cd, and using condemn in most cases puts her target out of range. The sheen stats appart from proc are mostly wasted as well.Also, Botrk being so much better as core puts TF in a situationnal late buy position for her. Early phage could be a strong buy, but delays botrk substantialy. See above about Bork. Tumble cd at max cd matches up with Sheens internal cooldown, so as long as she's auto attacking she can potentially trigger sheen till the cows come home(she goes oom, which sheen conveniently increases.) The only real wasted stats on TF for her is the AP, but there are numerous champions who have more wasted/off stats that pick up TF anyway. such as? Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana
Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS
Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are.
Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:
Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana
Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS
Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are.
Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking.
Litereally none of those are wasted except for Lee Sin: Mana, off stats don't count as wasted not to mentin they all scale preeeeeetty well with those stats
like how the fuck is AD wsted on Vi/Lee or HP wasted on anyone? AP AD wasted on Udyr? The fuck lol
Honestly I could say that about every single stat-champ combo you have there @_@
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On October 31 2013 23:36 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 31 2013 23:34 Requizen wrote: Shy would be a good example. Crit's not huge on her, AP is pretty minimal, manaless. You're an expert on Shy after last night, right? Super expert. Super duper dumpstered. Spelling fixed.
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United States47024 Posts
All the Triforce users want rounded damage stats because their baseline kits don't provide any inherent steroids, or they are slightly AS heavy. This isn't the case with Vayne because her baseline kit is not well-rounded or AS-heavy. Her baseline kit is extremely AD heavy, which means she needs an AS-heavy item to complement this.
You optimize your damage-dealing capability when AD and AS are balanced. Being heavily tilted toward AS favors buying AD-centric items, being heavily tilted toward AD favors buying AS-centric items, and being well-rounded favors well rounded items/combinations of items.
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On October 31 2013 23:45 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:36 Requizen wrote:On October 31 2013 23:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 31 2013 23:34 Requizen wrote: Shy would be a good example. Crit's not huge on her, AP is pretty minimal, manaless. You're an expert on Shy after last night, right? Super expert. Super duper dumpstered. Spelling fixed. It was fine until she roamed mid and killed that shitty Heimer player. Report feed.
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On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:27 AsnSensation wrote:On October 31 2013 23:20 Gahlo wrote:On October 31 2013 22:08 nafta wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Too expensive.Also bork first is stronger. I was alluding to TF second. On October 31 2013 22:08 Wrag wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Probably because she can't reliably chain the procs. Even tho Q has a short-ish CD, her other 2 active skills are situational/long cd, and using condemn in most cases puts her target out of range. The sheen stats appart from proc are mostly wasted as well.Also, Botrk being so much better as core puts TF in a situationnal late buy position for her. Early phage could be a strong buy, but delays botrk substantialy. See above about Bork. Tumble cd at max cd matches up with Sheens internal cooldown, so as long as she's auto attacking she can potentially trigger sheen till the cows come home(she goes oom, which sheen conveniently increases.) The only real wasted stats on TF for her is the AP, but there are numerous champions who have more wasted/off stats that pick up TF anyway. such as? Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are. Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking. HP is never wasted, wtf. And Vi actually scales decently with AD and AS, same for Xin (especially for him as far as AD is concerned) since pretty much all of his damage is autos. Tiger Udyr uses the AD. Lee uses the AD too since the longer the game goes the more he relies on autos for damage.
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One of the oddities of TF is the fact that it gives this proc that rewards using a lot of spells, but also gives AS which only affects auto attacks.
It really shows that this was originally designed to be the perfect all-round item rather than a specialized burst item.
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Speaking of items and builds, do you think we're going to see an overhaul even close to the size that S3 had? Obviously Jungle and Support items are getting some revamps, but do you think we'll see other stuff get changes?
Obviously all speculation but was just thinking of it.
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On October 31 2013 23:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:
Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana
Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS
Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are.
Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking. Litereally none of those are wasted except for Lee Sin: Mana, off stats don't count as wasted not to mentin they all scale preeeeeetty well with those stats like how the fuck is AD wsted on Vi/Lee or HP wasted on anyone? AP AD wasted on Udyr? The fuck lol Honestly I could say that about every single stat-champ combo you have there @_@ That's why I seperated off and wasted stats. If I was claiming the off stats were wasted, I would have put them in the same category.
On October 31 2013 23:47 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:On October 31 2013 23:27 AsnSensation wrote:On October 31 2013 23:20 Gahlo wrote:On October 31 2013 22:08 nafta wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Too expensive.Also bork first is stronger. I was alluding to TF second. On October 31 2013 22:08 Wrag wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Probably because she can't reliably chain the procs. Even tho Q has a short-ish CD, her other 2 active skills are situational/long cd, and using condemn in most cases puts her target out of range. The sheen stats appart from proc are mostly wasted as well.Also, Botrk being so much better as core puts TF in a situationnal late buy position for her. Early phage could be a strong buy, but delays botrk substantialy. See above about Bork. Tumble cd at max cd matches up with Sheens internal cooldown, so as long as she's auto attacking she can potentially trigger sheen till the cows come home(she goes oom, which sheen conveniently increases.) The only real wasted stats on TF for her is the AP, but there are numerous champions who have more wasted/off stats that pick up TF anyway. such as? Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are. Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking. HP is never wasted, wtf. And Vi actually scales decently with AD and AS, same for Xin (especially for him as far as AD is concerned) since pretty much all of his damage is autos. Tiger Udyr uses the AD. Lee uses the AD too since the longer the game goes the more he relies on autos for damage. Do I have to bold "Wasted" and "Off" so people will read that I am grouping them differently?
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"Wasted" and "low efficiency" are different. Even annie can use crit because she technically auto attacks. Tiger udyr might get like 15 more on his shield (or phenoix like 5 damage on his r or something) but you'd never buy deathcap on him so you can say the ap is wasted, you can say the crit is wasted and mana is debateable, but id lean toward it being wasted only if you have another mana item already.
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real men and voyboy
tf akali and shen too
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who buys trinity on nasus any more either? nobody remembers bruisers which buy trinity any more lol. Irelia, Jax are good examples, except jax uses all the stats better than most
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On October 31 2013 23:59 Slayer91 wrote: who buys trinity on nasus any more either? nobody remembers bruisers which buy trinity any more lol. Irelia, Jax are good examples, except jax uses all the stats better than most http://www.lolking.net/items/3078#topchampions
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Baa?21242 Posts
On October 31 2013 23:53 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:
Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana
Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS
Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are.
Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking. Litereally none of those are wasted except for Lee Sin: Mana, off stats don't count as wasted not to mentin they all scale preeeeeetty well with those stats like how the fuck is AD wsted on Vi/Lee or HP wasted on anyone? AP AD wasted on Udyr? The fuck lol Honestly I could say that about every single stat-champ combo you have there @_@ That's why I seperated off and wasted stats. If I was claiming the off stats were wasted, I would have put them in the same category. Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:47 Alaric wrote:On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:On October 31 2013 23:27 AsnSensation wrote:On October 31 2013 23:20 Gahlo wrote:On October 31 2013 22:08 nafta wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Too expensive.Also bork first is stronger. I was alluding to TF second. On October 31 2013 22:08 Wrag wrote:On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote: Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again? Probably because she can't reliably chain the procs. Even tho Q has a short-ish CD, her other 2 active skills are situational/long cd, and using condemn in most cases puts her target out of range. The sheen stats appart from proc are mostly wasted as well.Also, Botrk being so much better as core puts TF in a situationnal late buy position for her. Early phage could be a strong buy, but delays botrk substantialy. See above about Bork. Tumble cd at max cd matches up with Sheens internal cooldown, so as long as she's auto attacking she can potentially trigger sheen till the cows come home(she goes oom, which sheen conveniently increases.) The only real wasted stats on TF for her is the AP, but there are numerous champions who have more wasted/off stats that pick up TF anyway. such as? Wasted: Lee Sin: Mana Off stats: Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are. Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking. HP is never wasted, wtf. And Vi actually scales decently with AD and AS, same for Xin (especially for him as far as AD is concerned) since pretty much all of his damage is autos. Tiger Udyr uses the AD. Lee uses the AD too since the longer the game goes the more he relies on autos for damage. Do I have to bold "Wasted" and "Off" so people will read that I am grouping them differently?
That's stupid because you're implying that an ADC buying defensive stats is "off" and therefore you shouldn't do it, or that a bruiser buying damage is bad cause you should be tanking and buying only hp armor mr
It's a stupid distinction and doesn't say anything meaningful, and contributes nothing to proving your point that people buy TF when it's not optimal. In fact it works against it.
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I was playing Lucian the other day, and Nocturne ulted into me. I panicked and ulted, he dived into my and died to it before he even got to me xD
It was really just a shot in the dark lol
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someone tell them all to read my guide don't think its that good on xin or vi either (okay maybe on vi if you are super fed because early trinity proc is so much damage)
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'k so I'll just say HP is always good. It's just that sometimes there's even better stuff.
On November 01 2013 00:05 GhandiEAGLE wrote: I was playing Lucian the other day, and Nocturne ulted into me. I panicked and ulted, he dived into my and died to it before he even got to me xD
It was really just a shot in the dark lol And then you look so badass to your teammtes. Had this Cait that was getting dove every fight, as J4 I was burning my stuff on Fizz to force him to use his spells/flash/Zhonya before he reached her, and in the fight that turned the game I wa desperately trying to peel him off as Cait was already low, but he managed to get in Q range, dashed... and died almost in melee range of Cait, her last auto before he applied the damage. Ace, we got two inhibs and nash, and one ace later we won. I wouldn't be able to finish Fizz myself so it was pretty tense and then all hail Cait \o/
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On November 01 2013 00:08 Alaric wrote: 'k so I'll just HP is always good. It's just that sometimes there's even better stuff. Lies. Everyone should rush Warmog's.
Health is only "not good" (as in, super suboptimal) when you already get a lot or have a lot of free, easily spammable lifesteal/spellvamp, at which point resists outweigh it by a good margin.
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you guys have wrong definitions of good. Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity
hp is decent on trinity because even if its slightly sub optimal the cost efficiency of trinity means you're getting it for half price so its never that bad. (however mana, ap, crit often are)
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