• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:16
CEST 18:16
KST 01:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists19[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers24Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors ASL21 General Discussion Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1879 users

[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 27

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 210 Next
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
October 31 2013 15:15 GMT
#521
Health/resists uses the same principle as AD/AS - you want to balance them. You can think of shields, lifesteal, and spell vamp to essentially be "health" for this purpose.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
October 31 2013 15:15 GMT
#522
On November 01 2013 00:05 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2013 23:53 Gahlo wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:45 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:

Wasted:
Lee Sin: Mana

Off stats:
Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP
Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD
Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS

Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are.

Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking.


Litereally none of those are wasted except for Lee Sin: Mana, off stats don't count as wasted not to mentin they all scale preeeeeetty well with those stats

like how the fuck is AD wsted on Vi/Lee or HP wasted on anyone? AP AD wasted on Udyr? The fuck lol

Honestly I could say that about every single stat-champ combo you have there @_@

That's why I seperated off and wasted stats. If I was claiming the off stats were wasted, I would have put them in the same category.

On October 31 2013 23:47 Alaric wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:40 Gahlo wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:27 AsnSensation wrote:
On October 31 2013 23:20 Gahlo wrote:
On October 31 2013 22:08 nafta wrote:
On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote:
Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again?

Too expensive.Also bork first is stronger.

I was alluding to TF second.

On October 31 2013 22:08 Wrag wrote:
On October 31 2013 21:57 Gahlo wrote:
Why has TF Vayne not become a thing again?


Probably because she can't reliably chain the procs. Even tho Q has a short-ish CD, her other 2 active skills are situational/long cd, and using condemn in most cases puts her target out of range. The sheen stats appart from proc are mostly wasted as well.Also, Botrk being so much better as core puts TF in a situationnal late buy position for her.
Early phage could be a strong buy, but delays botrk substantialy.

See above about Bork. Tumble cd at max cd matches up with Sheens internal cooldown, so as long as she's auto attacking she can potentially trigger sheen till the cows come home(she goes oom, which sheen conveniently increases.) The only real wasted stats on TF for her is the AP, but there are numerous champions who have more wasted/off stats that pick up TF anyway.


such as?

Wasted:
Lee Sin: Mana

Off stats:
Ezreal, Corki, Lucian: HP & AP
Nasus, Udyr: Crit, AP, AD
Vi/LeeSin/Xin: AD, AP, Crit, AS

Sprinkle mana into Off Stats where you desire based on how spammy you are.

Champions picked from most frequent by % from lolking.

HP is never wasted, wtf. And Vi actually scales decently with AD and AS, same for Xin (especially for him as far as AD is concerned) since pretty much all of his damage is autos.
Tiger Udyr uses the AD. Lee uses the AD too since the longer the game goes the more he relies on autos for damage.

Do I have to bold "Wasted" and "Off" so people will read that I am grouping them differently?


That's stupid because you're implying that an ADC buying defensive stats is "off" and therefore you shouldn't do it, or that a bruiser buying damage is bad cause you should be tanking and buying only hp armor mr

It's a stupid distinction and doesn't say anything meaningful, and contributes nothing to proving your point that people buy TF when it's not optimal. In fact it works against it.

I'm not implying that buying defensive stats on an AD carry is something that shouldn't be done, that is just your inference. What I am saying is that I never say to myself "I'm playing an ADC and what I need is health, so I'm going to buy a Warmogs." HP is never a priority and when it is picked up, it's because it's tacked onto an item(TF, SV, Randuins) that give them something else that they want.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
October 31 2013 15:15 GMT
#523
On November 01 2013 00:14 Slayer91 wrote:
you guys have wrong definitions of good.
Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity

mmmmmmmmmmmm Luciannnnnnn
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 31 2013 15:16 GMT
#524
On November 01 2013 00:15 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:14 Slayer91 wrote:
you guys have wrong definitions of good.
Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity

mmmmmmmmmmmm Luciannnnnnn

Stop trying to make Lucian happen.

I literally have seen maybe 2 since release and they did absolutely nothing all game.
It's your boy Guzma!
Wrag
Profile Joined February 2012
France124 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-31 15:18:44
October 31 2013 15:16 GMT
#525
Re: Vayne & TF 2nd item: Spaming tumble for the sake of TF procs is a luxury that seldom happens outside of 1v1, and even if vayne likes to 1v1, i'm not sure it justifies getting TF second when you could be going for a better scaling build.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
October 31 2013 15:17 GMT
#526
On November 01 2013 00:16 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:15 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:14 Slayer91 wrote:
you guys have wrong definitions of good.
Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity

mmmmmmmmmmmm Luciannnnnnn

Stop trying to make Lucian happen.

I literally have seen maybe 2 since release and they did absolutely nothing all game.


He's just been waiting to make that shot in the dark pun for so long...
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-31 15:18:33
October 31 2013 15:18 GMT
#527
On November 01 2013 00:16 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:15 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:14 Slayer91 wrote:
you guys have wrong definitions of good.
Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity

mmmmmmmmmmmm Luciannnnnnn

Stop trying to make Lucian happen.

I literally have seen maybe 2 since release and they did absolutely nothing all game.


You should see Milo play him. He's gotten pretty impressive.

Especially if we have to carry Kissblade's jungle Quinn.
Hey! How you doin'?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
October 31 2013 15:19 GMT
#528
On November 01 2013 00:16 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:15 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:14 Slayer91 wrote:
you guys have wrong definitions of good.
Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity

mmmmmmmmmmmm Luciannnnnnn

Stop trying to make Lucian happen.

I literally have seen maybe 2 since release and they did absolutely nothing all game.

I don't know, I've seen him played to good effect in pro and amateur play with a couple buildpaths.
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
October 31 2013 15:19 GMT
#529
On November 01 2013 00:16 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:15 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:14 Slayer91 wrote:
you guys have wrong definitions of good.
Anything sub optimal is not good. Trinity is not good on most adcs because its sub optimal. That doesn't mean id prefer to not have a trinity over having a free trinity

mmmmmmmmmmmm Luciannnnnnn

Stop trying to make Lucian happen.

I literally have seen maybe 2 since release and they did absolutely nothing all game.

Lucian so good, wtf you smoking
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 31 2013 15:20 GMT
#530
TL so Lucian Hipster.
It's your boy Guzma!
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
October 31 2013 15:22 GMT
#531
On November 01 2013 00:20 Requizen wrote:
TL so Lucian Hipster.

Req sees ~2 Lucians since release, calls it a valid sample size.

Such science.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 31 2013 15:24 GMT
#532
On November 01 2013 00:22 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:20 Requizen wrote:
TL so Lucian Hipster.

Req sees ~2 Lucians since release, calls it a valid sample size.

Such science.

I've seen all the times that people don't pick Lucian because he's butts and pick decent ADCs instead.

Source: Gold League
It's your boy Guzma!
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
October 31 2013 15:26 GMT
#533
On November 01 2013 00:22 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:20 Requizen wrote:
TL so Lucian Hipster.

Req sees ~2 Lucians since release, calls it a valid sample size.

Such science.

So insight.

Seriously if we had competitive play sometime recently you'd be singing a different tune, Req. Lucian really does have all the tools an AD needs.
Promises
Profile Joined February 2004
Netherlands1821 Posts
October 31 2013 15:27 GMT
#534
Played against new Heimer for the first time, what the fuck is that ^^ In the end it turned out to be a farmfest since he couldnt really get to me (viktor) and I couldnt get to him, but the combination of permapushing and being nearly ungankable when turrets are up because the turrets plus his skills give INSANE burst and zone-controll seems a bit much. Might need a few more games against it tho, but while I never really feared for my life every jungle gank just failed miserably, and there wasnt much I could do to take him out either.
I'm a man of my word, and that word is "unreliable".
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35172 Posts
October 31 2013 15:28 GMT
#535
On November 01 2013 00:24 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:22 Gahlo wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:20 Requizen wrote:
TL so Lucian Hipster.

Req sees ~2 Lucians since release, calls it a valid sample size.

Such science.

I've seen all the times that people don't pick Lucian because he's butts and pick decent ADCs instead.

Source: Gold League

Or because he costs 6300 and has never been on sale?

This also implies people pick good champions in soloqueue, like Brand.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 31 2013 15:32 GMT
#536
On November 01 2013 00:27 Promises wrote:
Played against new Heimer for the first time, what the fuck is that ^^ In the end it turned out to be a farmfest since he couldnt really get to me (viktor) and I couldnt get to him, but the combination of permapushing and being nearly ungankable when turrets are up because the turrets plus his skills give INSANE burst and zone-controll seems a bit much. Might need a few more games against it tho, but while I never really feared for my life every jungle gank just failed miserably, and there wasnt much I could do to take him out either.


I'll have to post my reaction video from last night when I first dropped my combo when I was ganked.

So much damage. His Upgraded E is so much better than I originally thought.

I'm still unsure about what to max on him now. Turrets are awesome, but I think W has potential for best - it's just awkward the first times I'm using it.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 31 2013 15:33 GMT
#537
On November 01 2013 00:32 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:27 Promises wrote:
Played against new Heimer for the first time, what the fuck is that ^^ In the end it turned out to be a farmfest since he couldnt really get to me (viktor) and I couldnt get to him, but the combination of permapushing and being nearly ungankable when turrets are up because the turrets plus his skills give INSANE burst and zone-controll seems a bit much. Might need a few more games against it tho, but while I never really feared for my life every jungle gank just failed miserably, and there wasnt much I could do to take him out either.


I'll have to post my reaction video from last night when I first dropped my combo when I was ganked.

So much damage. His Upgraded E is so much better than I originally thought.

I'm still unsure about what to max on him now. Turrets are awesome, but I think W has potential for best - it's just awkward the first times I'm using it.

"Upgraded Grenade is such shit, why would I ever use it"

ten minutes later

"HOLY SHIT UPGRADED E IS THE MOST BULLSHIT THING EVERRRRRRR"
It's your boy Guzma!
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 31 2013 15:46 GMT
#538
I mean, the guy betrayed Diana and Viktor (and Zyra but I won't blame him for that) to go play Kha'Zix, and he likes Full Machine Viktor and Full Metal Jayce, what would you expect from his insight?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
October 31 2013 15:47 GMT
#539
On November 01 2013 00:33 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2013 00:32 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On November 01 2013 00:27 Promises wrote:
Played against new Heimer for the first time, what the fuck is that ^^ In the end it turned out to be a farmfest since he couldnt really get to me (viktor) and I couldnt get to him, but the combination of permapushing and being nearly ungankable when turrets are up because the turrets plus his skills give INSANE burst and zone-controll seems a bit much. Might need a few more games against it tho, but while I never really feared for my life every jungle gank just failed miserably, and there wasnt much I could do to take him out either.


I'll have to post my reaction video from last night when I first dropped my combo when I was ganked.

So much damage. His Upgraded E is so much better than I originally thought.

I'm still unsure about what to max on him now. Turrets are awesome, but I think W has potential for best - it's just awkward the first times I'm using it.

"Upgraded Grenade is such shit, why would I ever use it"

ten minutes later

"HOLY SHIT UPGRADED E IS THE MOST BULLSHIT THING EVERRRRRRR"

UPGRADED GRENADE IS LIKE A LEONA ULT THAT HITS THREE TIMES
Vlanitak
Profile Joined November 2009
Norway3045 Posts
October 31 2013 15:48 GMT
#540
On November 01 2013 00:20 Requizen wrote:
TL so Lucian Hipster.

Not for long, I know a few NA pros who love him
washed
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 29 210 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 199
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21816
Jaedong 2333
Horang2 1567
Mini 680
EffOrt 659
Light 446
Snow 390
Larva 386
ggaemo 378
Stork 368
[ Show more ]
Soma 359
firebathero 342
Hyuk 312
Killer 301
actioN 224
ZerO 216
Soulkey 176
Rush 138
Zeus 77
Hyun 64
Dewaltoss 52
Sexy 51
Free 46
sSak 41
ToSsGirL 41
HiyA 36
Barracks 31
PianO 28
sorry 24
Rock 19
Movie 18
yabsab 15
Terrorterran 15
GoRush 11
SilentControl 10
Noble 7
Sacsri 7
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
Shine 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5514
qojqva2307
BananaSlamJamma170
ODPixel104
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2015
fl0m755
allub416
byalli389
Other Games
B2W.Neo1081
hiko748
elazer369
crisheroes181
QueenE140
ArmadaUGS107
Reynor78
Trikslyr42
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream162
Other Games
BasetradeTV128
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 40
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 46
• Azhi_Dahaki18
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV490
League of Legends
• Nemesis1901
• TFBlade1027
Other Games
• Shiphtur187
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
7h 44m
GSL
17h 14m
Rogue vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
Replay Cast
1d 7h
GSL
1d 17h
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
KCM Race Survival
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
5 days
IPSL
5 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Flash
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.