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+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2013 16:29 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 08:16 Holyflare wrote:People seem to be flailing like fish right now. I do not know why. People are defending "slow" players too like it's their god given right to stay in the game. This IMO is utter shit play. You can sit on reads like Palmar to day 3 only to find out he was actually scum all you want, but I will not do it. It does not prove he is town to me and if he continues playing like that during day 1 my vote could most definitely end up on him. Meta works, to an extent, but slow play meta is something I despise. That being said I want to steer this town in the correct direction so some of you people can actually pull your fingers out of your arses and we can win the game. SO;
Palmar
+ Show Spoiler +This guy..... Yeh, great, he's a veteran. He is also in my house QT. Does that excuse him from playing the same game as we are playing? No. On October 17 2013 23:27 Palmar wrote:
@Mocsta: Why did you claim the self-aware miller? What's the point? What did you hope to achieve? This is literally the only question he asks in the entire thread so far, it's been a while too. Sure, Mocsta hasn't replied yet, so you'd think he'd be doing something more productive at this point. How can it be possible for us to determine what role he is if he doesn't say a thing in the entire thread other than he's waiting for mocsta. Furthermore, + Show Spoiler +On October 18 2013 05:43 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 05:41 Pandain wrote:So you've read thread but have no scum reads.  (in mafia game not irl) Furthermore, if you think Mocsta is town and he says what will be the logical thing trying to prevent future confusion if he's checked, then you will still policy lynch him, correct? Because that's the only result I can see from this coming, and you still wanted to lynch him. Where did I say I've read the thread? And no, I want to have a conversation with him. . Implying that he has read no further in the thread, after all, you all soft defend him to stay in the game till later so why does he need to make any more effort now? There are 6 scum. Maybe he's found 1 of them. He could be doing SO much more to help us win this game than waiting for 1 person to return to answer a question. What if he returns and the answer was adequate but then it's too late for him to read up anymore?? Mocsta has posted much more then a self-aware miller claim. Surely it would be nice to hear about that too? Or anyone else? I am most comfortable lynching him today. Call it policy, call it scummy behaviour, call it what you will. This is a game where you contribute so that we can determine who you are. Riding through days does not do this.
Stutters695+ Show Spoiler +Did not honestly realise this guy was in the game until I re-checked the thread. What can I say? 4 total posts in the entire game so far and the only one that really counts is: On October 18 2013 03:22 Stutters695 wrote:
Last time I played with Palmar was YANMM or LX or some big game where he argued really strongly in favor of policy lynching a claimed SAM in similar circumstances as town.
I'd like to see him contribute more, but as of now, I think his frustration is genuine. This defence on Palmer who has literally done nothing in the entire game so far other than question Mocsta on a miller claim is a bit odd to say the least. Why would you specifically mention Palmer over everyone else in the game so far? There are a LOT of pages to go by but he only mentions a bit of meta from another game. It's ok though, he justifies things: On October 18 2013 03:56 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 03:25 LastArgument wrote:On October 18 2013 03:22 Stutters695 wrote:
Last time I played with Palmar was YANMM or LX or some big game where he argued really strongly in favor of policy lynching a claimed SAM in similar circumstances as town.
I'd like to see him contribute more, but as of now, I think his frustration is genuine. Um, how would you expect him to behave as mafia in this situation? As far as I remember I've never seen him roll scum/read a game where he is, but I would expect more out of him in line with emulating his usual play. If he was lazy in his last scum game I'm probably off on this, but off of memory he spent most of d1 in that game I'm talking about just crying for a policy lynch on whoever claimed. Basically I don't have faith he'll flip scum based off of this, but I'll follow up on it next time I get to a pc to browse older games. He's never seen a Palmer scum game, he's basing meta off one town game when he has no idea how he'd react as another faction. This seems overly defensive, it looks like he knows his alignment. Either way, he's not talking about other things, he's not active. Comfortable with this lynch too.
Sn0_Man+ Show Spoiler +Yes, storrzerg makes sense, even if he is looking tunnely in the thread. In the QT at least it's a bit of a different story. This was storr's caseThe only thing I add to it that was criticised by Ceph is evidence. This is his desert mini mafia filter he was town in this game and at least posted quite a lot. His posts were informative and had elements of scum hunting. Definitely different from this game due to activity, even his first few posts aren't really the same. There are a lot of people in this game, a lot of filters to dive through. I've been reading and re-reading but there is nothing blatantly scummy that I can wholeheartedly see yet. There are one or two suspicions I have that I want to see played out and I will be pressing some people over things later, but for now one of these 3 I will be comfortable lynching. Stutters, I will give the benefit of the doubt to as he said he will be reaching a PC. Sn0 or Palmar are therefore my choices. I want to hear their responses before I confirm my vote direction though. Holyflare still seems mafia to me for this post, for these reasons Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 17:44 syllogism wrote:On October 18 2013 08:16 Holyflare wrote:
People seem to be flailing like fish right now. I do not know why.
People are defending "slow" players too like it's their god given right to stay in the game. This IMO is utter shit play. You can sit on reads like Palmar to day 3 only to find out he was actually scum all you want, but I will not do it. It does not prove he is town to me and if he continues playing like that during day 1 my vote could most definitely end up on him. Meta works, to an extent, but slow play meta is something I despise.
That being said I want to steer this town in the correct direction so some of you people can actually pull your fingers out of your arses and we can win the game.
<snip>
There are a lot of people in this game, a lot of filters to dive through. I've been reading and re-reading but there is nothing blatantly scummy that I can wholeheartedly see yet
When you say people are defending "slow" players, were you referring to Palmar? That definitely did not happen and never will happen. That defense was used to justify my play, but I'm completely absent from your post. You say that slow play meta is something you despite. Have you personally experienced this? I looked at your games and there's only one non-newbie game, so that seems like pretty strong choice of words. Another thing that feels a bit fake about the post is that you start by suggesting that people are "flailing like fish" but you do not know why, and then go on to say that you haven't found anything blatantly scummy. I'm not sure what flailing like a fish looks like in a game of mafia, but meaningless or even contradictory fluff never looks good to me. The whole last paragraph of his post is essentially suspicious fluff
I completely missed this post the first time around, however, to say it is pointless fluff is ridiculous. Quite clearly in the thread people were not coming to any conclusions on who to lynch hence flailing like fish (how can that phrase even be alignment indicative?), this post was an attempt to consolidate people who were around. The 3 people I chose may have been lurkers but they were people with actual posts/content that looked suspicious. I didn't mention others because they either had no posts or (you mentioned yourself as a slow player) had actually posted stuff that wasn't mocsta tunnel.
If you even check who my vote is on now, it's on BH. I've made a case against him because he is yet again, trolling the shit out of people and 'slow playing the game', exactly what I said I hated. The fact that you only read my filter but not around the suspicious posts is ridiculous.
This is especially pertinent when it comes to:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 20 2013 16:48 syllogism wrote:On day 1 Holyflare was mostly focused on lynching a lurker, but he ignored LonelyMeow/Tunkeg, despite definitely being aware of him being in the game. In fact, this interaction he had with him is suspicious Show nested quote +On October 19 2013 04:24 Holyflare wrote:I don't like things like this:On October 19 2013 03:48 LoneMeow wrote:
I feel Cephiro is unsafe lynch, despite the lack of (earlier) content. I don't understand why he'd play this way, but to me it seems his current frustration is genuine.
I'd far rather lynch Palmar, his filter has a distinct lack of scum hunting in it.
##Vote: Palmar What about the other people with similar circumstances, stutters, sn0, onegu, BH etc etc. Why specifically palmar? Is it because he has votes on him already and was an easy place to put your vote that wasn't on a wagon? People have expressed this attitude is also town Palmar. If Cephiro's frustration is a town read to you then you should be aggressively pushing a lynch onto someone else because we are about to lynch a towny? His posts as just linked by Mocsta illustrate that they are the exact same as a scum game of his, what does that imply to you? The same questions go to: Palmar (4) : Pandain, Grackeroni, VayneAuthority, LoneMeow all of these people too. He doesn't specify whether the post is suspicious or not, just that he doesn't "like things like this". Yet he supposedly wants to ask the same question from Pandain/Grackeroni/Vayne Show nested quote +On October 19 2013 04:24 Holyflare wrote:I don't like things like this: On October 19 2013 03:48 LoneMeow wrote:
I feel Cephiro is unsafe lynch, despite the lack of (earlier) content. I don't understand why he'd play this way, but to me it seems his current frustration is genuine.
I'd far rather lynch Palmar, his filter has a distinct lack of scum hunting in it.
##Vote: Palmar What about the other people with similar circumstances, stutters, sn0, onegu, BH etc etc. Why specifically palmar? Is it because he has votes on him already and was an easy place to put your vote that wasn't on a wagon? People have expressed this attitude is also town Palmar. If Cephiro's frustration is a town read to you then you should be aggressively pushing a lynch onto someone else because we are about to lynch a towny? His posts as just linked by Mocsta illustrate that they are the exact same as a scum game of his, what does that imply to you? The same questions go to: Palmar (4) : Pandain, Grackeroni, VayneAuthority, LoneMeow all of these people too. His suspicious interactions with mafia aren't limited to just Lonelymeow: Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 11:41 Holyflare wrote:@ET: Your case relied upon him apologising a lot, however, all you have to do is check the TL mafia database and look at his previous games. I have checked almost all of them and then did a ctrl+f search for "sorry", it appears in EVERY game many times. So I do not think it is alignment indicative for Onegu, especially to base a whole case off of. + Show Spoiler [Onegu] +However, since that case, Onegu has indeed not posted much and so I'll probably add him to my Palmar/Stutters/Sn0 lynchables for now. What I do actually want to point out though is: + Show Spoiler +On October 18 2013 11:03 EchelonTee wrote:Looks like I misread the deadline and will have plenty of time to analyze things. Will be home and in it in around 4 hours. @pandain I stated that people should spend more time in thread than in QT and articulated my reasoning behind this with examples and logic; and your response is that this is "bad". Really. If you have more reasoning behind your view then by all means argue with me, but calling me red for this is just laughable. You making me out to be afraid to talk to a small enclosed group is absolutely hilarious btw; if I was scum I would love to mess with the minds of a small group. Just ask Mattchew about when I got him to completely out his role, Palmar's role, and what their actions were going to be. Or when I convinced Meapak_Ziphh I was town and got him to share with me all of town's votes. Whether I'm town or scum I argue with people who come at me with terrible logic; read my past games and you'll see. Besides, your logic here is absolutely terrible. There is no "confirming" a QT; even with detective type classes there are always framers and the like. Even with deaths in a house, you can't confirm if the rest are town or not. Your continued comments on me as a suspect with this weak-as-hell basis is disturbing, to say the least. Show nested quote +On October 18 2013 01:38 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
Oh i forgot something.
EchelonTree - Why makes you say this game is heavily roled? Much scum roles you guys got?
-rayn This is a fucking Harry Potter themed game. If we're all squibs then I should've just signed up for competitive tic-tac-toe.
Why has no one commented on my Onegu case? He's gone completely black since posting 3 weakass posts and hasn't even responded to me. Screams scum much more than anyone else at this point; putting my vote on him. Will make deeper analysis when I'm back. ##Vote: Onegu Nice scum/town slip. He looks up Onegu's meta, concludes that ET's case is based on false premises, but then decides that he is worth lynching anyway due to the lack of activity. The spoiler tagged comment at the end of his post is completely nonsensical. Why would you point out that something is either a mafia or town slip?
As I said above lonemeow had 0 posts when I made that case, would you like me to target every lurker in the game? No, that would be ridiculous that is hardly consolidating the thread and the flailing like fish argument would still stand. I also didn't mention you, JAT, lonemeow, onegu, vayne or other people that had disappeared from the thread.
The palmar vote was suspicious as fuck and I had made a lonemeow case at the end of night 1 because of it. His meta wasn't in line with his noir game (he was one of the people I was going to push later, which i've quite clearly mentioned before PROOF ) his vote went to palmar who was not there at the time when only 3 people were on palmar. I wanted to know why these people were on palmar when a lot of people were saying he was displaying town palmar attributes. This is why I did not put my vote on an 'easy' target and instead DID ACTUAL SCUM HUNTING. I made a case on mattchew, some people swapped for a few seconds and then went straight back to palmar. Why would I bother doing these things if my motive was just to get an easy lynch? I was quite clearly questioning peoples motives and trying to get to the bottom of things.
As for + Show Spoiler +On October 20 2013 16:55 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 15:46 Pandain wrote:
To add to this, I think there are better targets then Grack for right now, I'm waiting for a response to my question for him which will either solidify my town read of him or possibly rescind it. I'm not ignoring him entirely.
Holyflare is quite interesting, but he'll slip up eventually if he is scum.
Storr we will see.
And there are probably at least two scum in the lurkers, if not more. First of all, it's now hard to believe that we ignored this guy. Secondly, this Holyflare mention is completely out of place and nonsensical and suspicious. He is "interesting" , but "will eventually slip up"? What? Pandain seems to have been fond of throwing out a few townie suspicions and one mafia for good measure.
This seems to be a high point of my interactions with ET for you. + Show Spoiler +On October 20 2013 22:13 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2013 22:08 raynpelikonoshi wrote:On October 20 2013 22:04 syllogism wrote:
Do what? Check Onegu's meta? Well look at what he is doing with it: nothing. He looks it up, concludes that ET is wrong and then decides Onegu is still a good lynch. Why even bother checking if that is going to be your conclusion either way? Yeah but if ET is your scumbuddy would you do it like this? Trash the case but still vote with him? Why destroy the case? Feels like he disagreed with the case but also found Onegu scummy/ worth pressuring. There is no further interaction with ET. Not a single remark that ET is scummy for being wrong. Wouldnt you do that if you knew ET was scum with you? Covering your bases. If he is mafia, his motive was to "interact" with ET and provide some easy content that anyone can do regardless of alignment. He probably didn't even realize that it made ET look bad; he definitely did not trash the case. Anyway, neither townies or mafia play perfectly and consider everything.
1) Mattchew in our house QT stated that although Onegu had posted nothing he was playing to his town meta.
2) I got interested in this meta and consulted the TL Database
3) I found that ET's conclusion was wrong and mattchew was in fact right on his point about meta.
5) I posted to clear this suspicion.
6) It doesn't entirely vindicate him because he hasn't posted anything. That doesn't make me scummy it makes HIM scummy, I'm going out of my way to research peoples reads on other people to confirm motives and cases.
7) This is what annoys me about this. You think I didn't chase it up because ET was scum? No. If you read around the case and my post it quite clearly shows that me and mocsta were agreeing. There is nothing more you can do if a person does not want to post, how can I pressure someone who isn't around?
You also mention vayne's point about hopeless posting towny things. We were specifically told not to post in the thread from the QT so I stuck to that reasoning. I almost made a rage post at vayne and actually copied it to a notepad so I could see sense before I posted it so here it is
+ Show Spoiler +Here's the thing. It's easy to say "trololol I went through pandain's filter so these must be town" and I'm confused as to why you wouldn't check this before suggesting that his moves are town orientated because someone else did the same in another game. Pandain's filter also contains (conveniently left out): On October 17 2013 15:43 Pandain wrote:Grack is not certain town but probably town. He posted a lot early on and made jokes. I haven't seen scum do that early on though I acknowledge it could happen. Usually town are the very first ones to post, and him making jokes amplifies my town reads. He also made very weak arguments in Thug Life which is why I thought he was scum, but it ended up being wrong. Show nested quote +On October 17 2013 06:48 Grackaroni wrote:On October 17 2013 06:40 supersoft wrote:On October 17 2013 06:38 Grackaroni wrote:On October 17 2013 06:26 supersoft wrote:On October 17 2013 05:14 Grackaroni wrote:On October 17 2013 05:11 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hufflepuffs r dweebs.
Syllo's scum tho based on sucking up ro somtheing The mocking of the hufflepuffs will not stand. This man has the blood of the Ravenclaws, for too long they have mocked us. We will have our revenge. ##Vote: Sn0_Man On October 17 2013 06:22 raynpelikonoshi wrote:
##vote: Skanjab1s
Bring it on slytherin scum you guys just write it down here or are you actually going to vote? because if you don't, it looks like you dont want your voting patterns to be in the votingthread. You must not be from Gryffindor! A very cowardly act to accuse a loyal hufflepuff of being afraid to place his vote in the voting thread. what holds you back then? 1) the voting thread wasn't even created when I posted. 2) It's not a real vote 3) Watching for players being afraid to put votes in the voting thread at the start of the game is a silly and ineffective method of scumhunting. This is fine for an explanation, what about you? On October 17 2013 05:16 Pandain wrote:
Grack is town pretty obvious so far Here he has mentioned Grack as not certain town but probably town and also pretty obvious town. Does this confirm him? No. On October 18 2013 05:09 Pandain wrote:
The people who contributed greatly earlier on in the thread were:
Hopeless
Last Argument
Skanjabs
Yamato
I have town reads on all of these people and others, upon analyzing them, should confirm/deny this from their own perspective.
I also would like it if someone took the time to summarize their House QT for the thread.
There are 4 more people you can also cross off your scum list because he said they were town right? -.- The fact that someone who is scum has mentioned people as probably town reads is by no means an indicator of their actual alignment. If that were the case people would just spout of their entire team as town reads every game but that doesn't happen does it. There is nothing stopping hopeless being mafia, he knows people are town he finds any link he can to prove it to them that he is town, that is basic mafia play 101 and if you don't think so then I was wrong about you looking at things logically. Not to mention the things he has pointed out are incredibly WIFOM. You say that the motivation behind hopeless is townlike because he is confirming 3 other people and is now linked to them. That link means nothing if you are no longer seeing him as a lynch candidate. He clearly didn't mention grack who was the most pertinent read in pandain's entire filter? Why is that? Hopeless has had no activity in the qt the entire day 1 and has only just started posting - moreso - now that storr has outed 1 mafia. It's already been mentioned how our reads and ideas were put into the QT beforehand so I'm not going to mention it again.
In regards to this entire debate, storr checks a house at night and finds out if any of the people come back red. He mentioned that this could theoretically show an SK too. There have been a few theories thrown around but one that I think is most plausable is the framer situation. Mattchew was a 3rd possible wagon at the time of the palmar lynch. He wasn't likely to be night killed that night and so if there was a framer around he would be the perfect candidate to be framed. This would consequently show hufflepuff as having 1 mafia to a house cop check.
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